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6.0.3 Blood Frenzy Ruined?

KeiRaikon
KeiRaikon
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So not only did they reduce the cost reduction of vampire abilities which would essentially make this ability already cost more health for all stages but now the base ability increases cost by a whopping 20% per second it's active! Am I insane or did they make this skill literally unusable for anything but quick gank bursts?
  • RedReign
    RedReign
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    I dont believe an ability that adds 1K weapon/spell damage was meant to be for anything other than quick bursts.
  • KeiRaikon
    KeiRaikon
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    From what people seem to have been saying the skill was already pretty much never used in PVP and this change makes it pretty much useless for PvE (I assume) because why would you want to get rid of an ability slot for a buff that would have hardly any uptime?
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    I think its less ruined and more..changed. Now you must turn it off at some point. I think the goal was both of the following:

    A: Sated Fury morph now is moire enticing than ever, if you leave blood frenzy on and keep a class heal, eventually itll be too much. Sated Fury will shoot you back to full health. This way you can immediately turn it back on.

    B: Simmering Frenzy is in the same boat except instead of it healing, you have to do that yourself. So it will be overall lower uptime (Given you need time to heal yourself now since the toggle wont heal you to full) but the trade off is more damage.

    The vampire stages are disappointing to say the least. The ability cost reduction on vamp stage 4 is almost half of what it used to be. Which makes sense given the new ability cost increase values. It just seems ill have to spend another 2 weeks theory crafting a way to use this well
  • colossalvoids
    colossalvoids
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    Can already see all the threads "i was kicked from rnd for no reason/being vampire!" Where pugs will describe how zos gave em abilities they can't control, people complain even about being unable to weave/dodge but now we'll get suicides as a topping.
  • Wuuffyy
    Wuuffyy
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    Paradisius wrote: »
    I think its less ruined and more..changed. Now you must turn it off at some point. I think the goal was both of the following:

    A: Sated Fury morph now is moire enticing than ever, if you leave blood frenzy on and keep a class heal, eventually itll be too much. Sated Fury will shoot you back to full health. This way you can immediately turn it back on.

    B: Simmering Frenzy is in the same boat except instead of it healing, you have to do that yourself. So it will be overall lower uptime (Given you need time to heal yourself now since the toggle wont heal you to full) but the trade off is more damage.

    The vampire stages are disappointing to say the least. The ability cost reduction on vamp stage 4 is almost half of what it used to be. Which makes sense given the new ability cost increase values. It just seems ill have to spend another 2 weeks theory crafting a way to use this well

    Yea bud. Ruined. Thanks for reiterating.
    Wuuffyy,
    WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
    ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
    -DM for questions
  • Suligost
    Suligost
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    It's fine now since they toned down ability costs. Thanks to that they avoided mass stage 1 players for that skill.
  • kojou
    kojou
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    Paradisius wrote: »
    I think its less ruined and more..changed. Now you must turn it off at some point. I think the goal was both of the following:

    A: Sated Fury morph now is moire enticing than ever, if you leave blood frenzy on and keep a class heal, eventually itll be too much. Sated Fury will shoot you back to full health. This way you can immediately turn it back on.

    B: Simmering Frenzy is in the same boat except instead of it healing, you have to do that yourself. So it will be overall lower uptime (Given you need time to heal yourself now since the toggle wont heal you to full) but the trade off is more damage.

    The vampire stages are disappointing to say the least. The ability cost reduction on vamp stage 4 is almost half of what it used to be. Which makes sense given the new ability cost increase values. It just seems ill have to spend another 2 weeks theory crafting a way to use this well

    I preferred Sated Fury anyway because Simmering just hurt too much to use... With Sated the heal would take me back to full since I was self healing so much while it was running. I think this change just cemented that as the better morph IMO.

    I need to test with the 20% increase, but my gut tells me it is not going to be nearly as fun to use.
    Playing since beta...
  • navystylz_ESO
    navystylz_ESO
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    Only came back for vampire changes. Now I'm wondering if I should just refund my purchase.

    I don't see the point of a toggle skill that wants you to use it like a duration buff. They couldn't lower normal ability cost increase without nerfing vampire ability cost decrease? Why would I ever want to be a stage 4 vampire?

    Like, what the hell is the point in taking increase flame dmg, no health regen, increase normal ability cost when the only practical reason was the cheaper costs on frenzy, the ability you'd most want to use. But now that cost just keeps increasing indefinitely itself.

    And now will simmering frenzy boost to your damage to be worth actually having over the other morph before you die or toggle the thing off?
    Edited by navystylz_ESO on May 11, 2020 8:48PM
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    kojou wrote: »
    I preferred Sated Fury anyway because Simmering just hurt too much to use... With Sated the heal would take me back to full since I was self healing so much while it was running. I think this change just cemented that as the better morph IMO.

    I need to test with the 20% increase, but my gut tells me it is not going to be nearly as fun to use.

    Well after an hour of testing some stuff ive come to the conclusion that given real fight scenarios, Sated Fury is just way safer in terms of risk/reward. Below are two parses I did with FG, MS, and Zaan. I used 1 BT Spell damage jewelry and 2 Infused Prismatic Cost Reduction to try and mitigate frenzy cost. Even then the damage difference I had between Sated Fury and Simmering Frenzy isnt high enough to warrant not going Sated Fury for a self heal insurance.

    ukTqeIc.png
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    JrPIhA8.png
  • KeiRaikon
    KeiRaikon
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    To me you might as well just use those 2 jewelry with increased spell damage and infused/arcane for not that much less spell damage and not having to risk the cost and freeing up an ability slot. Also its very important to mention that you aren't taking any outside damage from mobs or other players in dummy parses which would cause the uptime to drastically drop.
    Edited by KeiRaikon on May 11, 2020 8:37PM
  • RedReign
    RedReign
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    KeiRaikon wrote: »
    To me you might as well just use those 2 jewelry with increased spell damage and infused/arcane for not that much less spell damage and not having to risk the cost and freeing up an ability slot. Also its very important to mention that you aren't taking any outside damage from mobs or other players in dummy parses which would cause the uptime to drastically drop.

    Outside of PvP I can see myself at least using sated fury in some content, at least on classes that already have access to sufficient self healing.
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    KeiRaikon wrote: »
    To me you might as well just use those 2 jewelry with increased spell damage and infused/arcane for not that much less spell damage and not having to risk the cost and freeing up an ability slot. Also its very important to mention that you aren't taking any outside damage from mobs or other players in dummy parses which would cause the uptime to drastically drop.

    I am keeping that in mind, that is why I noted that in a real fight, I would always choose sated fury over simmering frenzy. Given the relatively small damage difference for no insurance burst heal makes Simmering Frenzy an unappealing morph. As for just not slotting it and using something else, I very well could not use blood frenzy. However I do want to use Vampiric abilities where I can personally. To me its just a matter of finding something that also can work in a real fight (Which sated fury is more likely to)
  • KeiRaikon
    KeiRaikon
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    I feel like if they just kept the scaling at 10% per second it would be pretty manageable and fun to use while also not making simmering pretty much completely useless.
  • RedReign
    RedReign
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    Maybe its just me but it feels like this skill has gone from a viable buff in PvE content to a mere convenience skill for clearing content that you could already solo just a little bit faster.
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    RedReign wrote: »
    Maybe its just me but it feels like this skill has gone from a viable buff in PvE content to a mere convenience skill for clearing content that you could already solo just a little bit faster.

    It pretty much has been, uptime will drastically lower and it will be essentially a nice buff skill but wont really help you in clearing content you couldnt already clear before. At this point its more or less for people like me who like the idea of using vampire skills, and finding ways that they can bring good use. I do hope they consider lowering the scaling on this however. 20% gradual cost increase per second without a cap, compared with the Vampire Skill cost reduction going from 40 > 24 makes blood frenzy cost alot of health.
    Edited by Paradisius on May 11, 2020 9:03PM
  • KeiRaikon
    KeiRaikon
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    RedReign wrote: »
    Maybe its just me but it feels like this skill has gone from a viable buff in PvE content to a mere convenience skill for clearing content that you could already solo just a little bit faster.

    It is which funnily enough causes the the argument of Vampire being pretty much a RP skill line to actually be somewhat valid. Before it was due to the non vamp skill cost being so high (which I disagreed with due to the stage 1 cost not being that bad and being able to build around vamp for higher stages) but now I think it actually is because in PvE the only real usable skills for endgame content are now Eviscerate and the ult, which is admittedly more viable vamp skills than live which is none.
    Edited by KeiRaikon on May 11, 2020 9:04PM
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    In a PvP context, the 6.0.3 changes basically solidify the ability as a ganking-only skill. I mostly looked at it that way before, but with the infinitely increasing health cost + far smaller cost reduction from higher Vampire stages, it becomes unusable for most Magicka builds. Is anyone really going to give up a bar slot just to have a bit higher damage on a Meteor, Leap, or Colossus + Graverobber? I doubt it...

    This will be an ability whose sole purpose is to increase the chance that a gank from stealth will 1-shot the target, which obviously makes PvP super duper fun for that player. Everyone loves dying without any option for counterplay, right?
  • navystylz_ESO
    navystylz_ESO
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    Paradisius wrote: »
    RedReign wrote: »
    Maybe its just me but it feels like this skill has gone from a viable buff in PvE content to a mere convenience skill for clearing content that you could already solo just a little bit faster.

    It pretty much has been, uptime will drastically lower and it will be essentially a nice buff skill but wont really help you in clearing content you couldnt already clear before. At this point its more or less for people like me who like the idea of using vampire skills, and finding ways that they can bring good use. I do hope they consider lowering the scaling on this however. 20% gradual cost increase per second without a cap, compared with the Vampire Skill cost reduction going from 40 > 24 makes blood frenzy cost alot of health.

    They basically turned a toggle into something you treat essentially like a buff. Except you cut the duration yourself at the sweet spot. Which, I'm sorry, but I don't want to micromanage that when the cost scales up way too fast now.

    In addition to this, we already have stealth accomplishing this. Hit stealth, buff your damage by 300. Why tf do we have that and fury acting like that now?

    In addition none of the other needed tweaks happened. So I'm not interested in vamp changes at all. Refunded chapter and ESO plus. Will spend that money elsewhere.
  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
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    Honestly, the skill as a whole is unhealthy no matter what form it's in. It's better than most 5 pc bonuses for pete's sake. They just need to scrap it and rework it and the spammable entirely.
    Godslayer
    Tick Tock Tormentor
    Gryphon Heart
    Immortal Redeemer
  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
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    Maybe a spammable that has a reverse execute mechanic? It would synergize well w/ executes and the sorc class. The more life your target has, the more dmg it does. Lore-wise, this makes sense as you drain more blood/deal more damage to a healthier victim. I think changing arterial burst to do that would be a better option.

    Major Edit:
    Since this is a melee skill, what about adding a gap closer? Bloodfiends and vampires tend to teleport to their victims, so a gap closer really helps make the melee spammable viable. Or, rather than a gap closer, some kind of teleport skill that lets you teleport (like streak sorta). That might be too op though, so maybe keeping it as a gap closer is best.
    Edited by wills43b14_ESO on May 11, 2020 9:59PM
    Godslayer
    Tick Tock Tormentor
    Gryphon Heart
    Immortal Redeemer
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    Honestly, the skill as a whole is unhealthy no matter what form it's in. It's better than most 5 pc bonuses for pete's sake. They just need to scrap it and rework it and the spammable entirely.

    It is, and your idea of a reverse execute spammable is not a bad idea. I personally just dont think theyll rework anything. Id rather them just tweak the values of what they have since that seems the more reasonable approach given that this update is only a couple weeks away.
  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
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    @Paradisius agreed. Most of us have given up hope of ZOS ever listening to player feedback unless it's on the scale of the LA/HA and shield cast time change lvl of REE.

    It just goes to show how the playerbase has great ideas, but ZOS has their own and would rather force their idealistic vision onto us. The funny thing is, we never do what they want, we use their tools in other ways. They keep trying to change them to force us to use their intended version, at which point we just stop using them lol.
    Godslayer
    Tick Tock Tormentor
    Gryphon Heart
    Immortal Redeemer
  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
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    RO is a great example of this lol
    Godslayer
    Tick Tock Tormentor
    Gryphon Heart
    Immortal Redeemer
  • Alexium
    Alexium
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    There was probably a good idea to replace Blood Frenzy to the charge/gap closer ability. For the full damage vampire should use his melee skill. But enemies often stays over the distance of the attack.

    And ZOS make this like a bat swarm teleport please!
    Edited by Alexium on May 11, 2020 10:33PM
  • nk125x
    nk125x
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    Was going to run the sated morph om my sorc using crit surge - just give it a try in a public dungeon and its unusable now. Was having to turn it off after 3 or 4 secs.

    What else is left in the vamp line for a sorc... - Don't need mist as have streak, never going to use a melee damage skill, vampire drain is crap (worse than current live), The stun is temperamental at best and the ultimate is underwelming.

    Guess I will be visiting the priest for a cure.....
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    nk125x wrote: »
    Guess I will be visiting the priest for a cure.....

    From patch notes:
    Priests of Arkay have moved to more prominent cities throughout Tamriel, and are more readily available to cure those wishing to remove the affliction of Vampirism.

    They knew. :) Right from v6.0.0, they were planning for that. :)
  • AgaTheGreat
    AgaTheGreat
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    Edited by AgaTheGreat on May 11, 2020 11:07PM
    PS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    Funnily enough, I actually hit similar dps just by switching blood frenzy out for blood mist and going full infused spell damage Jewelry, blood mist > bar swap gives me 300 spell damage to use on my front bar. Paired with the fact that I dont need to waste time popping on/off sated fury or spamming my self heal, just keep it slotted for when things get bad.

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    So in this setup I just replace a vampire skill for another one, I dont mind working with this but I also feel like its shows just how questionable Blood Frenzy as a whole is now thanks to the increased risk at no increased reward.
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