Kyne's Aegis Trial Sets Review/Feedback - NOT THE SETS WE WANT

skinnycheeks

Hey all. Just wanted to share my feedback over the new trial sets that are currently on the PTS for the Greymoor chapter. Overall, I'm pretty disappointed with the direction that ZOS has tried to take these sets. A couple seem better for PvP than for PvE trial content. Considering trial gear only comes once a year, it would be nice to see some useful sets similar to what we got with Cloudrest and Sunspire. Here's a video covering and I'll also summarize below:

https://youtu.be/ZfcJ8tZuLF4

Roaring Opportunist

Looks Like a Support Set, not a DPS Set

• Like Alkosh, this set will be mostly used by support because it provides a group-wide buff. Unlike Alkosh, this 5pc gives the user zero extra damage that isn't given to everyone else.
• Even with the changes to the heavy attack scaling, still will be used by support, paired with Jorvuld's, and built to try and get a little more heavy attack damage.

Stop Trying to Force Heavy Attacks on DPS

• There's nothing wrong with Heavy Attacks as a proc condition for support sets, we did it forever with Infallible Aether. But don't force it into DPS rotations.
• There's nothing wrong with sets that promote heavy attack usage that are purely damage based.
• The issue lies in sets like this specific one, that are trying to be DPS sets, but contain essential support buffs. Don't put heavy attack conditions on sets like this.

If Left as a DPS Set, Change the Condition and Scaling

• Changing the proc condition to a bash or heavy attack would make this a lot more enticing for a variety of builds to use
• Then, instead of scaling off heavy attack damage, change the scaling to something similar to engulfing flames, where it reads your spell power and max magicka
• If ZOS refuses to change to anything other than a heavy attack, the 96k threshold for max uptime is too high and needs to be lowered
• Having a bonus scale off the damage done also creates unpredictable uptime due to crit RNG, further showing why an engulfing like scaling is better

Final Suggestion: Change it to a Support Set

• Change the set bonuses to something more versatile for all roles, and just call it a support set

Final Thoughts on this Set: It's clear ZOS intended on the Heavy/Light attack changes to go through that were proposed on the off-cycle PTS testing. ZOS really wants to encourage heavy attack playstyles for DPS. I think it's fine to have sets in the game that are good for heavy attack builds, but please don't put it on an essential group buff set like this and put magicka DPS stats on it. It just comes off as though you are trying to force a specific play style on people.

Yandir's Might

Again, Forcing Heavy Attacks

• Change the condition to a bash or a heavy, and a wider variety of playstyles can utilize this set.

Stats Aren't Great for Trials

• Too much recovery and not enough average damage
• Actually worse damage than hundings when paired with another minor slayer set (since minor slayer doesn't stack)

Possible Solution: Swap Recovery and Damage

• Put the Weapon Damage as the 5 stacks you build up initially
• Once you are low on resources, you can heavy attack for resource return and get a burst of stamina recovery to go along with it
• This would make more sense with the current trial meta (again looks like it was designed around light/heavy changes that didn't go through)

Final Thoughts on this Set: REALLY COOL SET. I actually really like the design of it, but just not as a pve trials set. It fits more with pvp playstyle and there are some pvp players already theorycrafting setups that use this. It should either be moved to a craftable/overland/RotW set, and the minor slayer bonus dropped, or the way it functions tweaked, if left as a trial set.

Kyne's Wind

DPS in Trials Only Need 1 Resource, Not Both

• This set's power budget includes that it gives out both resources, which is again great for pvp, but not so much for pve
• A set like "Symphony of Blades," which only gives the resource you need, has better resource return for your highest resource.
• Double the bonus, but change it to only restore your highest resource, and this is in a much better place for pve

Final Thoughts on this Set: With the changes above it could be a really solid set. One thing that has to be kept in mind with this set is that, similarly to Sentinel of Rkugamz, once the set procs and starts the resource return, the circle doesn't move. So if you happen to be on the move right as it is proc'd, you get ZERO return from it. Or if you have to move out to avoid a red AoE, you'll only get the ticks you were inside for. This means you can't just look at the numbers on paper and assume a perfect uptime throughout. You have to account for many of the procs not being received. Unlike a set like symphony, which procs on you and stays with you, this is stationary.

Vrol's Command

Player Cap is Too Low

• This needs to be bumped up to 11 additional allies, instead of 5 additional allies
• With the long cooldown of 36s, this should really cover the whole group, or it isn't very useful

Bonus Isn't That Appealing

• If changed to reach the whole group, this could be usable in certain progressions to help a bit, but the overall bonus isn't that great.
• Just casting a barrier is going to be better than Major Aegis in 90% of situations
• With the 10s duration, and 36s cooldown, something like a 25% reduction would seem much more fitting for a Major buff

Final Thoughts on this Set: At the end of the day, you have to drop a set that increases your group's DPS, or a set like Ebon that gives a 100% uptime survivability buff, in order to run this. It needs to be worth it to do so. At the bare minimum this should reach all 12 members or it simply won't be used. I would prefer a complete rework to something more interesting.

Thanks For Reading
I hope the feedback was helpful. I know I might not have the most perfect ideas on all the sets, interested to hear what you guys think might work better. But overall, really hope these get some reworks before going live.

Etrella

Leave it to ZOS to make a set useless before its even released...This Patch is a complete and utter mess.

Foxic

Etrella wrote: »

Leave it to ZOS to make a set useless before its even released...This Patch is a complete and utter mess.

To be fair, siroria and Olorime were both hot garbage on the early pts for summerset and they were both made into great sets. So set reworks aren't unheard of

BennyButton

@skinnycheeks great analysis. Sadly I don't think they'll take this into account due to them being impossibly stubborn about "some grand vision" they have.

skinnycheeks

Foxic wrote: »

Etrella wrote: »

Leave it to ZOS to make a set useless before its even released...This Patch is a complete and utter mess.

To be fair, siroria and Olorime were both hot garbage on the early pts for summerset and they were both made into great sets. So set reworks aren't unheard of

Yep! That's why I'm hoping there is still time for these.

skinnycheeks

BennyButton wrote: »

@skinnycheeks great analysis. Sadly I don't think they'll take this into account due to them being impossibly stubborn about "some grand vision" they have.

skinnycheeks

Another issue with Roaring Opportunist that I failed to mention is that only 1 person can run it. At least with something like Alkosh, if you have more than 1 in it, the buff refreshes and both wearers can get dmg from the 5pc proc. Please check out this thread and forward to the appropriate depts. Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

kojou

I generally like the paradigm that they went with in Sunspire. I ran VSS so many times to get my Perfected False Gods and Lokkestiiz, and Yolnakrin.

The healer set was hot garbage, but it seems they always have to throw in one garbage set so they can weight the RNG towards it. I lost count of the number of Nahviintaas 2 handed weapons I deconned, but I digress...

Roaring Opportunist needs to be a legit Magicka DPS set, and it needs to be one that grants personal bonuses without having to jump through all kinds of hoops to maximize. Make it give Major Slayer when I take a synergy, make it give stacks of Crit or stacks of an elemental damage when I light attack, or any number of trial oriented bonuses that are not on Magicka trials sets yet.

Things I don't want:

• Proc condition that requires me to do something special while a boss is off balance
• Conditional proc that requires me to skew my gear and CP in a non-optimal way (i.e. based on heavy attack damage)
• Proc conditions that just in general require me to do something that I am not ordinarily going to do in a rotation...

If it contains any one of these 3 then it will not be something I am interested in even if it is "good for the group" to run. I am signing up for trials as typically Tank or DPS, not "Buff Monkey Pseudo DPS."

Maybe there are people that like this "take one for the team" play style, but I am not one of them and I think making a set that does is catering to a very limited audience. Especially since there will be only 1 per raid.

I hope they fix it, because it was actually fun having a trial (VSS) that people wanted to run for the gear, and I have a feeling this will be another VHoF situation where everyone will get the clear and achievements and then avoid.

YandereGirlfriend

This is really great feedback, OP.

I especially like your suggestion for swapping the buffs on Yandir's Might.

I saw it mentioned in the main feedback thread and thought that it was a really nice idea: let Vrol's Control bestow Minor Heroism on the group instead of Major Aegis.

I'm not sure how the numbers would stack up against Yolnakriin or Alkosh in terms of min/maxing tanking sets but such a change would at least would give the group something of tangible value for increasing their DPS.

It'd also have the positive effect of saving players some gold from relatively expensive dragon ingredients for their Minor Heroism potions.

High-end groups still might not use it (after all, they can already get the buff from pots) but middle-tier groups could probably switch to using Vrol and Tremorscale (and Yolna) instead of Alkosh and a different Monster hat.

frozzzen101

Great feedback.
Given that sets were designed around proposed LA/HA changes that were dropped I'm quite baffled that they weren't changed already. It looks like very lazy designing. I know that HoF and MoL had theme in their trial sets (ult activation and synergy activation) and this one wants to have theme in using HA to activate sets, but if they won't be used in endgame context, trial is going to be ignored much like Cloudrest would be if it had those garbage proc sets they initially wanted to implement.

But quite honestly I just don't see this theme working for dps players. HAs don't mesh well into rotations like OGCD synergy procs or low cost ults for previous trial sets. For supports? Most likely it would work, but with majority of players being dds you need something to lure majority of the players to new trial.
HA theme should be dropped from dps sets, Roaring Opportunist should become legit healer set with stats benefiting healers, for mag there are just so many options that can replace MS frontbar like AY for magicka etc etc etc. and stam can get something that can beat NMA in AoE situations for example, or something completely different. Tank set is not worth wasting breath on in its current state, full remake plz.

Still plenty of time to fix those sets and make new trial something worth rerunning.

titaniumdust

I don't like the philosophy that ZOS has where they would rather make the set more clunky and difficult to use than improve it so it's something DPS would actually want to run. I think a major problem with the roaring opportunist concept is that it's trying to force DPS to use heavy attacks without actually improving heavy attacks. It's trying to bribe players into heavy attacks with the promise of a reward without making heavy attacks themselves rewarding. I don't know why ZOS suddenly wants DPS to use heavy attacks, but if they really want to encourage players to do so, they could start with a set that makes heavy attacks worthwhile. Players don't dislike heavy attacks for no reason, they dislike heavy attacks because they're just bad in every way in PVE. Even with the buffs on that off cycle PTS test heavy attack rotations did terrible damage and heavy attacks were a significant DPS loss. Right now, healers/tanks area always going to wear whatever support sets are the most disruptive to DPS, and RO as it exists now way more disruptive to a DPS than Zen/MK is, so a healer will wear it.

Vaoh

Main issue imo is that they came up with the intentional design restrictions for these sets to give Major Slayer/Aegis and also to be based on heavy attacks before figuring out what they’ll actually look like.

Hopefully Vrol’s Command is buffed because it’s one of the most useless sets we’ve seen in awhile. Yandir’s is also definitely more fitting as a PvP set than for PvE and it’ll be sad if PvPers need to run Vet HM Kyne’s Aegis for their gear.

Skjaldbjorn

The skinniest of cheeks always coming through with the knowledge. @skinnycheeks, we appreciate you dude. I'm going to make a post today or tomorrow with some ideas I've been bouncing around as far as how to balance/reimagine their HA/LA balance changes. If it's cool with you I might throw them your way in a Discord DM and get your thoughts. Let a brotha know.

YandereGirlfriend

I still don't think that ZOS has given up on some form of the LA/HA changes and that this revision is the devs tipping their hand.

itsfatbass

frozzzen101 wrote: »

Great feedback.
Given that sets were designed around proposed LA/HA changes that were dropped I'm quite baffled that they weren't changed already. It looks like very lazy designing. I know that HoF and MoL had theme in their trial sets (ult activation and synergy activation) and this one wants to have theme in using HA to activate sets, but if they won't be used in endgame context, trial is going to be ignored much like Cloudrest would be if it had those garbage proc sets they initially wanted to implement.

But quite honestly I just don't see this theme working for dps players. HAs don't mesh well into rotations like OGCD synergy procs or low cost ults for previous trial sets. For supports? Most likely it would work, but with majority of players being dds you need something to lure majority of the players to new trial.
HA theme should be dropped from dps sets, Roaring Opportunist should become legit healer set with stats benefiting healers, for mag there are just so many options that can replace MS frontbar like AY for magicka etc etc etc. and stam can get something that can beat NMA in AoE situations for example, or something completely different. Tank set is not worth wasting breath on in its current state, full remake plz.

Still plenty of time to fix those sets and make new trial something worth rerunning.

This is one of the reasons why I'm skeptical and believe ultimately they intend and WILL bring these light and heavy attack changes to the game. Maybe not exactly as they previously iterated but something close.

JinMori

While you are at it, since other sets have been changed, change domihaus so the buff it provides is just weapon and spell damage, but more, remove the damage from the outer edge of the circle, just make it so, while you stand inside you get a lot of weapon and spell damage.

Basically, set is identical, but, no direct damage from the set, but instead gives you like 400 to 500 weapon and spell damage.

Or just make a new monster set in another dlc dungeon, but this would be most logical on domi.

The problem is that this set is just not practical, if you can get the damage at the edge and the spell and weapon damage, you come at about parity with other monster sets, but the problem is that the damage condition is just too hard to achieve and sustain, so just make it so it gives you spell and weapon damage.

Anyway good suggestions.

Tannus15

It's pointless putting in heavy attack focused DPS sets without improving heavy attacks.

It seems obvious to me at this point that ZoS are going to ignore our feedback on these sets because they intend to have another crack at overhauling heavy / light attacks in the near future.
They know these sets suck with the current combat system, but they have plans to change that.

Unfortunately I don't think they realise that vrol and roaring at the very least are still going to be utter trash.

Noxavian

Isn't it kind of funny that in a vampire themed chapter literally none of the overland, dungeon, or trial sets are vampire themed?

Only thing we get is bloodlord's embrace, which is a 1 piece mythic item that doesnt even do anything vampiric, just restores magicka.

Nemesis7884

Vrols command could be cool if they changed major aegis to minor heroism for the group :-)

than you could combine it with yolnakrin and tremorscale for a true support tank and give minor courage, minor heroism and feel like a true group leader...

skinnycheeks

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

The skinniest of cheeks always coming through with the knowledge. @skinnycheeks, we appreciate you dude. I'm going to make a post today or tomorrow with some ideas I've been bouncing around as far as how to balance/reimagine their HA/LA balance changes. If it's cool with you I might throw them your way in a Discord DM and get your thoughts. Let a brotha know.

@Skjaldbjorn yeah for sure. feel free to send me a message!

Ozby

Currently the way these sets are, they are Garbage! and no one will want them which will make the Trial not very attractive to people to run or farm.

BadShogun

ZOS is probably going view this feedback and then go nerf other sets into the ground to make the Kyne's Aegis gear look appealing in comparison.