Dungeon Suggestion to revitalize older content...

Rittings

Here are a few suggestions to help re-farming of older content and even add a new element for endgame players to enjoy...

1) Vet HM dropping a gold jewelry piece randomly from that dungeon
2) Vet Dungeon scoring system (similar to vet trials and arenas) - a weekly dungeon Leaderboard maybe too?
3) Intermediate level added (Same goes for trials - normal is too easy and teaches you nothing, and the leap to vet is incredibly steep for intermediate players).
4) Daily Undaunted Quests - Let us either share the current daily (not previous dailies) or, let us keep multiple quests on us from previous days so we can have "dungeon day"
5) Perfect Gear? - Bringing into line with the new standard, maybe perfected gear for dungeons too? Could be tested out on maybe one or two dungeons to see how it works. As perfected gear become the clear BiS, it obsoletes most (if not all) dungeon sets. To balance them a bit more, I think perfected gear would help to push them back closer into line with what they once were - viable alternatives.

There are lots more things we could do - and these are just a few suggestions... feel free to add your own below

mobicera

I an vehemently against a leaderboard system for dungeons.
I've seen people beg to kick 300 cp people from vet dlcs regardless.
Even when the rest of the group knows that 300cp is a damn transfer with more experience and probably more dps than the one begging to kick them...
Middle level end game trials(farm vdlc non hm, prog hm vlc) are so ridiculously difficult to get into in this game I don't want to see this in dungeons it would probably create a toxic environment that pushes away new players.
We see this in vet trials often and its not helping the community, its hurting it.

kylewwefan

The only thing they need to add is HardMode from the beginning of dungeon, not just the last boss.

Rewards could be more [snip] stones or keys or something you already get from dungeons.

That’s all I got.

[edited for profanity]

Rittings

mobicera wrote: »

Middle level end game trials(farm vdlc non hm, prog hm vlc) are so ridiculously difficult to get into in this game I don't want to see this in dungeons it would probably create a toxic environment that pushes away new players.
We see this in vet trials often and its not helping the community, its hurting it.

First sentence in particular I am not sure what you are trying to say, or mean. Not trying to be mean or anything - but I'm confused. There currently is NO middle level end game trial system (other than straight vet, no hm). What I'm talking about is a stepping stone between normal and vet. Maybe make "Normal" the "Easy" trial, and have midway level and call THAT "normal".

Rittings

Anyway, what I'm suggesting is a MIDDLE LEVEL in dungeons too. Something that WOULD be easier to get into

mobicera

Rittings wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

Middle level end game trials(farm vdlc non hm, prog hm vlc) are so ridiculously difficult to get into in this game I don't want to see this in dungeons it would probably create a toxic environment that pushes away new players.
We see this in vet trials often and its not helping the community, its hurting it.

First sentence in particular I am not sure what you are trying to say, or mean. Not trying to be mean or anything - but I'm confused. There currently is NO middle level end game trial system (other than straight vet, no hm). What I'm talking about is a stepping stone between normal and vet. Maybe make "Normal" the "Easy" trial, and have midway level and call THAT "normal".

I am considering middle level to be what I quoted prog of vdlc hm and smoother runs of vdlc non hm.
Which would also probably be the middle level for vdlc dungeons.
I have no issues with another difficulty level being added I just don't know if time and resources would be spent when that shiny crate nets more.

Rittings

mobicera wrote: »

I am considering middle level to be what I quoted prog of vdlc hm and smoother runs of vdlc non hm.
Which would also probably be the middle level for vdlc dungeons.

I'd say vDLC Hm progs ARE end game - not middle end game.

But aside from that, small group content (aside from BRP and DSA) is very limited if that's your personal "end game". I'd really like to see dungeons propped up a bit more because they are being left behind with trials now becoming the sole focus for many veteran players...

worrallj

mobicera wrote: »

I an vehemently against a leaderboard system for dungeons.
I've seen people beg to kick 300 cp people from vet dlcs regardless.
Even when the rest of the group knows that 300cp is a damn transfer with more experience and probably more dps than the one begging to kick them...
Middle level end game trials(farm vdlc non hm, prog hm vlc) are so ridiculously difficult to get into in this game I don't want to see this in dungeons it would probably create a toxic environment that pushes away new players.
We see this in vet trials often and its not helping the community, its hurting it.

That's a good point. But I do like the idea of a leaderboard. Maybe it would only apply for premades?

The rest of the suggestions I don't love.

Gold jewelery for a vet dungeon? To me that seems like a huge reward for a very minor accomplishment. Maybe a better chance for motif chapters?

Building up daily quests? Kinda defeats the "cheeks in seats" point of the daily from zos perspective. They're trying to get people psychologically adapted to a daily diet of ESO, after all.

Intermediate level? I think that's overkill. The transition is smooth enough IMHO. I think it's just the dlc stuff that throws people off, so I'd say (as many others have) separate the random que into dlc and non-dlc.

Perfect gear? Eh... Maybe could be done in a cool way I'm not sure. Seems like your basically doubling the number of sets in the game, which for some reason doesn't seem good. At least it wouldn't have the backlash vma does since dungeons are way easier to farm.

Rittings

Some good points made Worralj for sure.

On your gold jewelry part - it's really only a "chromium grain" if deconstructed - required 10 vet dungeons for 1 plating lol. So, I'd say it's a fair trade off - plus there is no other way right now to obtain gold dungeon jewelry via achievements... you have to buy them, and that seems a bit sad when you have to wait for some sets to come to the Golden that NEVER appear... and improving them with gold plating at 320k per jewelry piece (current PS4 prices) is just not worth it at all.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Rittings wrote: »

Here are a few suggestions to help re-farming of older content and even add a new element for endgame players to enjoy...

1) Vet HM dropping a gold jewelry piece randomly from that dungeon
2) Vet Dungeon scoring system (similar to vet trials and arenas) - a weekly dungeon Leaderboard maybe too?
3) Intermediate level added (Same goes for trials - normal is too easy and teaches you nothing, and the leap to vet is incredibly steep for intermediate players).
4) Daily Undaunted Quests - Let us either share the current daily (not previous dailies) or, let us keep multiple quests on us from previous days so we can have "dungeon day"
5) Perfect Gear? - Bringing into line with the new standard, maybe perfected gear for dungeons too? Could be tested out on maybe one or two dungeons to see how it works. As perfected gear become the clear BiS, it obsoletes most (if not all) dungeon sets. To balance them a bit more, I think perfected gear would help to push them back closer into line with what they once were - viable alternatives.

There are lots more things we could do - and these are just a few suggestions... feel free to add your own below

Well it seem poeple dont want to return to previous content for new loot
They dont want to go back to vma for the new weapon

(Ps. i like your idea)

FierceSam

One thing I think ZOS needs to avoid is any kind of gearset inflation

These dungeons are and always will be mid-tier level areas. The rewards that affect gameplay (sets etc) need to reflect this. These dungeons will always see heavy use due to the monster sets, pledges and because there is a continuing number of players moving through them as they get more experienced. So population isn’t really the issue... OP’s issue is more that they have become jaded at mid-tier rewards.

So gold jewels, better sets, etc would be strictly out. You absolutely don’t need these to complete all the dungeon HM content... or indeed the next difficulty level content.

The way they’ve been incentivising the DLC dungeons is with non-gameplay related rewards like motifs. So if there were a need to incentivise these dungeons, that would be the way to go.

Taleof2Cities

Of all the old content that needs revitalized, non-DLC group dungeons is definitely last on the list ...

idk

1. Zos already sells the gold jewelry via a gold sink. They are not about to add it to such easy dungeons.
2. Most of the dungeon, really all of them are to easy to justify a leaderboard. The leaderboard would be more of a joke than Craglorn trials leaderboards.
3. Just make normal a little more difficult. No need to waste effort on creating a middle difficulty.
4. Pretty sure Zos will not make pledges sharable. Heck, OP even hinted at how it can be exploited in their suggestion. LOL.
5. Perfect gear is the only suggestion in the OP worth considering. Even then I do not think we need perfect gear for everything. It can remain only with trial and arenas.

TheShadowScout

Rittings wrote: »

...these are just a few suggestions... feel free to add your own below

Forego "bind on pickup" for older dungeons, let farming for trading commence!

Anything else, well, if there was a suggestion how to monetize it, I am sure that would raise the chances of someone at ZOS actually considering some improvements....

Hanokihs

Rittings wrote: »

5) Perfect Gear? - Bringing into line with the new standard, maybe perfected gear for dungeons too? Could be tested out on maybe one or two dungeons to see how it works. As perfected gear become the clear BiS, it obsoletes most (if not all) dungeon sets. To balance them a bit more, I think perfected gear would help to push them back closer into line with what they once were - viable alternatives.

Personally, I'm still waiting for them to make crafted sets some of the most powerful gear in game, like they initially planned. (You know, because locking the best stuff behind trials only raises the ceiling, not the floor, since players on or near the floor can't/won't/don't do trials. Just saying.)

Anyway, people run all the old dungeons just fine. It's the new DLC ones that the majority of players hate getting for their daily random; just look around at all the complaints about that. If you really wanna get people grinding, put pets, motifs, housing items, and better dye colors in there, attached to various dungeon achievements. You'll get more players looking for cosmetics than you will players who are happy to regrind for gear.

VaranisArano

An intermediate level and a hard mode that goes the whole way through the dungeon is at least something NEW.

Do we really have to say again that giving shiny new reasons to grind the same old content for the 100th+ time is neither revitalizing old content nor particularly desired by many players? (It works, because of FOMO, but that's another story.)

Hanokihs

VaranisArano wrote: »

An intermediate level and a hard mode that goes the whole way through the dungeon is at least something NEW.

Do we really have to say again that giving shiny new reasons to grind the same old content for the 100th+ time is neither revitalizing old content nor particularly desired by many players? (It works, because of FOMO, but that's another story.)

You've got a good point. Putting new things in old places is a pretty tired system and the mark of a dev team that's low on fresh ideas.

Then again, they have a problem keeping old players, so for all the people just showing up to the party, it's a QoL improvement in line with level up rewards. Just look at all the old cheevo points with nothing actually tied to them; a few inserts wouldn't hurt.

JinMori

Nice suggestions, but there is another one that would do better to revitalize content, and it would go well with perfected gear suggestion.

They need to add a new difficulty that works like or similar to mythic +, basically m+ is a difficulty that goes from mid tier to the highest/best possible player imaginable in the game, because it scales based on your ability to play.

Normal and vet would become intermediary levels. Basically ,normal is very easy, vet is medium, and the last one would be from pretty hard to extremely difficult. And the rewards would also reflect that.

It would be perfect for a perfected dungeon gear, and maybe even a new tier of quality, above legendary.

Or, instead of dropping the perfected gear itself, they would drop tokens to make your gear perfected, and choose the bonus you want, so you could even make crafted gear perfected, and there would be more of a reason to do dungeons and trials that do not drop the kind of gear everyone wants, because they still drop the tokens, and instead as you go up in difficulty, the dungeons would drop more, and higher quality gear, which is also why i suggested the new quality tier above legendary.

Call it divine or something, but maybe you wanna keep some wiggle room, divine is a bit... final, i mean, what is above divine? In case in the future they want to make yet another tier, which is unlikely, but still, maybe you wanna keep away from words like divine, or ultimate, and keep it slightly more moderate, like mythic. Unless you are absolutely sure you will not do another tier. But in case you change your mind and already called it something like divine, you can just roll it back a little, call the previous highest tier mythic, and the new one is now divine, so the highest is still divine, but you have yet another new quality.

Sarannah

Rittings wrote: »

Here are a few suggestions to help re-farming of older content and even add a new element for endgame players to enjoy...

1) Vet HM dropping a gold jewelry piece randomly from that dungeon
2) Vet Dungeon scoring system (similar to vet trials and arenas) - a weekly dungeon Leaderboard maybe too?
3) Intermediate level added (Same goes for trials - normal is too easy and teaches you nothing, and the leap to vet is incredibly steep for intermediate players).
4) Daily Undaunted Quests - Let us either share the current daily (not previous dailies) or, let us keep multiple quests on us from previous days so we can have "dungeon day"
5) Perfect Gear? - Bringing into line with the new standard, maybe perfected gear for dungeons too? Could be tested out on maybe one or two dungeons to see how it works. As perfected gear become the clear BiS, it obsoletes most (if not all) dungeon sets. To balance them a bit more, I think perfected gear would help to push them back closer into line with what they once were - viable alternatives.

There are lots more things we could do - and these are just a few suggestions... feel free to add your own below

All bad suggestions in my opinion:
1: The highest content shouldn't be even more rewarding, they have monster mask only drops already. This would only create a bigger gap between those that can and will run vet dungeons, and those who do not or cannot.
2: No scoring, people already find the most idiotic reasons to kick someone. Adding: "You had two more seconds in your run" or "You had a few less points for this dungeon" as reasons to kick is not a good idea.
3: We do not need more different dungeon levels, this would spread the playerbase over even more difficulties. Meaning, longer queue's. Maybe change the current DLC dungeon difficuly to normal+ and vet+.
4: Does it really matter if you miss doing a daily, or getting a daily key?... Not really against this though, but seems kinda unneeded.
5: Some players are way to focussed on perfecting their gear, relax.... 1k dps difference won't matter in the long run.

ImmortalCX

worrallj wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

I an vehemently against a leaderboard system for dungeons.
I've seen people beg to kick 300 cp people from vet dlcs regardless.
Even when the rest of the group knows that 300cp is a damn transfer with more experience and probably more dps than the one begging to kick them...
Middle level end game trials(farm vdlc non hm, prog hm vlc) are so ridiculously difficult to get into in this game I don't want to see this in dungeons it would probably create a toxic environment that pushes away new players.
We see this in vet trials often and its not helping the community, its hurting it.

Gold jewelery for a vet dungeon? To me that seems like a huge reward for a very minor accomplishment. Maybe a better chance for motif chapters?

Maybe if there was a .05% chance per group, per run. Something to keep people on their toes.

Dusk_Coven

Solo Normal mode would see a lot of use, and probably remove all those fake tanks and fake heals from the queue.

YandereGirlfriend

I really like all of these ideas, especially the idea of a leaderboard and of gold jewelry dropping from the HM.

Rittings

I love that the discussion has opposing views without toxicity - I'd just like to thank everyone for that. I have a couple of comebacks that appear to be repeating -

Monster Helms will likely not be a reason to return to doing early content - especially with the new Mythic pieces coming out (it's more likely Monster helms will be the first dropped items from all our builds). - thus my mind was on a different option.

Remember, some players are happy to sit at mid-tier level and have no desire (or time) to put in to the game to grind for all the best gear found behind end game content. But that's no reason for the ceiling to keep getting higher and leaving all the dungeon gear in it's wake. Someone attested to crafted gear - and how we started a 6-9 month grind for our 9 trait crafting to make Twice Born Star (that was previously BiS)... I do think the insurgence of research scroll speed ups killed the crafted set, but that's a topic for another discussion.

I think it's time to start to give people a reason to hit the dungeon queues again. I run a very active guild that runs 20 scheduled trials weekly - mainly because that's the only gear people want/need. They come in at level 3 immediately grinding to CP160 to get their Olorime, Lokkestitz, Relequen, False God, Alkosh etc... because that's all they need to get stuff done.

I'd love to see certain sets out perform these in specific scenarios. Like the dungeon/content rewards you for having a certain set on that can really affect change in a dungeon Just like Unhallowed Grave rewards Necromancers! I think that's a super positive direction for ZoS - especially for those that enjoy roleplaying

Sinolai

Rittings wrote: »

1) Vet HM dropping a gold jewelry piece randomly from that dungeon

This would crash the economy as everyone could farm Chromium Grains from Fungal Grotto I.

Rittings wrote: »

5) Perfect Gear? - Bringing into line with the new standard, maybe perfected gear for dungeons too? Could be tested out on maybe one or two dungeons to see how it works. As perfected gear become the clear BiS, it obsoletes most (if not all) dungeon sets. To balance them a bit more, I think perfected gear would help to push them back closer into line with what they once were - viable alternatives.

This would add huge powercreep to the game that is already suffering from inflated DPS cap. Not to mention the outrage when you had to farm EVERYTHING again. All those golded Worm, Sanctuary, Ebon, Spellweave (how is your inferno staff?), Z'en, Jorvuld, Hircine, Bloodmoon ect ect sets? Yup, its all trash now. Don't worry, we will give you 1 dreugh wax for every 2 items you deconstruct so you can upgrade 1 new set for every 16 full sets you destroy

People are already flipping over in the PTS forums due to re-farming Maelstrom and Dragonstar Arena.

Raudgrani

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Solo Normal mode would see a lot of use, and probably remove all those fake tanks and fake heals from the queue.

There's a few dungeons you can't solo on normal due to mechanics, you mean these should be changed so that you could? I've even been running a few DLC dungeons like Falkreath solo a big number of times, farming gear etc. It's often frankly easier solo, than with a bad group - because they tend to mess things up and make enemies run all over the place. If I'm solo I know exactly where everything is, and how they react to my actions.

You can't solo for example Scalecaller, because of the boss mechanics. But I don't really know if adjusting dungeons for solo is any of the things I want to see really bad.