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Impen still worth it?

danara
danara
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i dont really understand how impen change will affect pvp. If someone could explain to me how it works (i m better with number if you have an exemple ^^ ) and is it still worth it running in pvp? Thanks everyone !
  • nqvarihs
    nqvarihs
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    impen got lowered from 258 to 172 (-33%). whether or not it will be worth running depends on how much base crit resist there will be (currently not working on pts)
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Crit resist = ___/6600

    7 impen armor pieces = 1806 crit resist.

    1806/6600 = 0.2736

    Base Crit Damage multiplier is 1.5X
    7 impen = 1.5 - 0.2736 = 1.2264 (vs base)
    Minor force = + 0.1
    Warden/Templar/NB = + 0.1
    CP = + 0.14-0.21

    A crit damage multiplier against you for most players will be at 1.226x in 7 impen in no cp. You can usually sacrifice 1-2 pieces for other traits putting you around 1.3x crit dmg taken. Of course, some players use minor force and they're a warden/nb/templar so that number is actually + 0.1- 0.2 more in those scenarios.

    If you wear no crit resist, you could have a warden/templar/nb with RAT hit you for 1.7x dmg on crits or 1.9x in cp. This is why having some impen is so important and valuable. For new or pve players, it's a huge trap that gets them deleted in pvp for not preparing their gear or cp properly. This is why ZOS is trying to simutaniously lower the barrier for entry while also introducing better build diversity. It just helps so much with mitigation that the other traits couldn't possibly meet.

    Now lets assume for a moment what the base crit resist might look like, it looks like it's attached to the leveling curve meaning it's not some basic number like +1000 crit resist on battlespirit. 160 cp characters = level 66. This is why resist/penetration is divisible by 660 instead of pve mobs locked at lv 50 for a divisible number of 500.

    I think 15 Crit resist per level is reasonable, meaning level 66 (160cp) = 990 crit resist. 10 per level might be more likely, so 660 at max level, but of course, pure speculation.

    If we also assume that most players are comfortable with around 1250-1800 crit resist. You may only want to use 2-5 pieces of impen to meet what you had on live if we're getting around 1k crit resist. If we get roughly 1k from base, I'd aim for 3-4 pieces impen, 3-4 pieces well fitted personally (CP). All the other traits are pretty trash and well fitted enables a huge amount of sustain and survivability so i'm happy to switch over to it.

    Edit: not sure if it's 68 or 66 anymore, but 66 makes more sense (due to cp 160 = 660) so I edited the values.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on April 26, 2020 9:30PM
    PC Beta - 2200+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Just tell us the base number at CP160 already.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • danara
    danara
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    tthanks for the answer guys!
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    danara wrote: »
    tthanks for the answer guys!

    Hopefully we'll learn the baseline crit resist number the the next pts patch notes.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • silver1surfer69
    silver1surfer69
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    Totally! came here to learn the number^^ My guess is it will be around 400 or 500 base impen value. What zos wants according to patch notes is, that other traits become worth it and reasonable for pvp. Atm there are obviously not many other traits used in pvp. Which strengthens my assumption that they derive their thoughts and this kind of knowledge from statistical analysis. Like to the APM vallue, the acions per minute value, which is the new thing, that they identified to discriminate between exp and newer players. This is not possible atm, to do fast actions consecutive in pvp, which totally ruins the game for exp pvpers...

    To try to answer the question, the impen value u need will not change, which is a minimum of 1500, better more, in my eyes. I guess they want us to have like 3 or 4 free trait slots. Based on that assumption the base impen value has to be like 800. So maybe it will be like 1000?, if i try to think their way^^ Lets see...
    Edited by silver1surfer69 on April 26, 2020 11:28AM
    PC/EU
    Loveknight - HybridDK (4*), Stahlstrahlenreiter - StamDen, Azgul Grahl Bashrugk - HybridSorc (5*), Tínúvíél - StamCro, Thógard - StamPlar
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    I still don't know tbh. I am waiting for new PTS rounds to see if there are changes to other traits. If they buff them (like invigorating for example) then we might have a "what to chose" dilemma. And if we don't know what to chose, that means we have option to chose from. Right now, it is pretty much Impen and maybe Well-Fitted.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    Depends on the base resist tbh. If its like 1k i may give up like 3 piece for well fitted or something. Too bad they never buffed that trait that gives all 3 regen too a useful value.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    Depends on the base resist tbh. If its like 1k i may give up like 3 piece for well fitted or something. Too bad they never buffed that trait that gives all 3 regen too a useful value.

    You know how it is with splitting your ressources. Have too little of everything and it has no impact.
    So I am more a fan of putting everything into one place. Well fitted, in my opinion, is the only trait remotely potent enough to rival impenetrable on some builds.

    A stamina Nightblade with Well fitted for example, will work absolutely fine.
    And for me as a magicka sorcerer, using divine and infused with the mage is 1,3k magicka. That does not make any difference at all. Not nearly as much as impenetrable does. 35% roll dodge reduction however is something that is up to par with 18% crit resistence.

    But I never want to hear that question "Is impen still worth it?" again. :D It outperforms everything and unless they buff other traits, that won't change.
    Edited by Dracane on April 26, 2020 12:31PM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Who knows, have to playtest it. I’m thinking impen on the small pieces and infused on the big pieces as a starting spot.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
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    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Who knows, have to playtest it. I’m thinking impen on the small pieces and infused on the big pieces as a starting spot.

    infused really isnt worth it for pvp.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • silver1surfer69
    silver1surfer69
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    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red
    PC/EU
    Loveknight - HybridDK (4*), Stahlstrahlenreiter - StamDen, Azgul Grahl Bashrugk - HybridSorc (5*), Tínúvíél - StamCro, Thógard - StamPlar
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    We are talking about the pts, genius.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • kalunte
    kalunte
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    it will depends on malacath's band popularity.

    Only those who build with Dmg Proc sets will have a use of this ring. if they become the majority, then the base impen will probably be enough and ppl will have to put other traits on gear (infused for overall efficiency, reinforced/nirn for def, wellfited/sturdy for utility, or even divine why not).

    in CP campaign, Crits will always be better for dmg, and since crit also includes healing (while malacaths care only about dmg) lowering your crit because of malacath's will also reduce your surviability..

    basically, @Iskiab is right, we'll have to playtest it.
  • silver1surfer69
    silver1surfer69
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    We are talking about the pts, genius.

    thx for ur polite answer
    PC/EU
    Loveknight - HybridDK (4*), Stahlstrahlenreiter - StamDen, Azgul Grahl Bashrugk - HybridSorc (5*), Tínúvíél - StamCro, Thógard - StamPlar
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    Also 3300 crit res is 50% crit dmg reduction so your number is wrong.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    kalunte wrote: »
    it will depends on malacath's band popularity.

    Only those who build with Dmg Proc sets will have a use of this ring. if they become the majority, then the base impen will probably be enough and ppl will have to put other traits on gear (infused for overall efficiency, reinforced/nirn for def, wellfited/sturdy for utility, or even divine why not).

    in CP campaign, Crits will always be better for dmg, and since crit also includes healing (while malacaths care only about dmg) lowering your crit because of malacath's will also reduce your surviability..

    basically, @Iskiab is right, we'll have to playtest it.

    I mean 25% extra dmg is gonna be worth in bgs.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    Also 3300 crit res is 50% crit dmg reduction so your number is wrong.

    Because 66 crit resistence is 1%, not 68%. His answer was insulting in so many ways.
    Out of place and wrong.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Base impen will be 1350.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Firstmep wrote: »
    Base impen will be 1350.

    Do you know this for certain?
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Akinos
    Akinos
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    Impen will still be best unless you plan on getting 1 shot by basically everybody.
    PC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    Also 3300 crit res is 50% crit dmg reduction so your number is wrong.

    Because 66 crit resistence is 1%, not 68%. His answer was insulting in so many ways.
    Out of place and wrong.

    According to:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1

    68 impen = 1% crit damage reduction. That's the number I've always gone by. It can be confused with 660 resistance = 1% damage reduction.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Who knows, have to playtest it. I’m thinking impen on the small pieces and infused on the big pieces as a starting spot.

    infused really isnt worth it for pvp.

    Unless it's on an infused torugs destro staff. Yes I am that disgusting. Probably more so if Malacath boosts the damage of the glyph like minor berserk does... time to head back to the PTS.

    As for impen, as long as you're at or above 3k you should be okay. I used to run below that, and I can tell you now, having 3.5k has significantly increased my life expectancy. Damage numbers are going to go up a lot in Greymoor, so crit resistance is going to be more important than ever.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    Also 3300 crit res is 50% crit dmg reduction so your number is wrong.

    Because 66 crit resistence is 1%, not 68%. His answer was insulting in so many ways.
    Out of place and wrong.

    According to:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1

    68 impen = 1% crit damage reduction. That's the number I've always gone by. It can be confused with 660 resistance = 1% damage reduction.

    But 990 crit, which is what sturdy warhorn grants, is 15%. Just like aggressive warhorn is 15% crit damage.
    I admit, I am always confused whether it is 68 or 66. But I have found that 66 seems to be the logical one. 68 ends on odd values.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    A lot of forum-goers pulling numbers out of thin air in this thread.

    You can’t do any effective theorycrafting or testing without the crit resist baseline.

    Hoping ZOS doesn’t forget it for this week’s patch note iteration.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    A lot of forum-goers pulling numbers out of thin air in this thread.

    You can’t do any effective theorycrafting or testing without the crit resist baseline.

    Hoping ZOS doesn’t forget it for this week’s patch note iteration.

    exactly.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    Also 3300 crit res is 50% crit dmg reduction so your number is wrong.

    Because 66 crit resistence is 1%, not 68%. His answer was insulting in so many ways.
    Out of place and wrong.

    According to:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1

    68 impen = 1% crit damage reduction. That's the number I've always gone by. It can be confused with 660 resistance = 1% damage reduction.

    But 990 crit, which is what sturdy warhorn grants, is 15%. Just like aggressive warhorn is 15% crit damage.
    I admit, I am always confused whether it is 68 or 66. But I have found that 66 seems to be the logical one. 68 ends on odd values.

    That Warhorn point is very intriguing. I might need to adjust my calculations...
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    Also 3300 crit res is 50% crit dmg reduction so your number is wrong.

    Because 66 crit resistence is 1%, not 68%. His answer was insulting in so many ways.
    Out of place and wrong.

    Unless things have changed since last August, 68 crit resist = 1%.

    uSVIlSA.png
    Source: Damage Mitigation: Explanation UPDATED 15/07/2019
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Langeston wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    A full set of impenetrable still grants 18% crit damage reduction. Making it still, by far, the very best trait and no other trait comes remotely close to this.

    I had hoped impenetrable would be reduced enough to actually open up choices. But I would be a fool to trade 18% crit resistence for 1k magicka or so. :)

    1x imp 258
    7x imp 1806

    68 imp =1% crit dmg reduction
    thus

    1806/68=26,5% crit red

    Also 3300 crit res is 50% crit dmg reduction so your number is wrong.

    Because 66 crit resistence is 1%, not 68%. His answer was insulting in so many ways.
    Out of place and wrong.

    Unless things have changed since last August, 68 crit resist = 1%.

    uSVIlSA.png
    Source: Damage Mitigation: Explanation UPDATED 15/07/2019

    I take Damage Mitigation: Explanation UPDATED 15/07/2019 as a trusted source, and will continue to calculate things based on 68 crit resist = 1% critical damage reduction.

    But I do wonder, just out of curiosity, where does @paulsimonps get his numbers?
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
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