Since its now officially confirmed Werewolves are getting an update. What are your thoughts?

Thevampirenight

It was a few weeks ago when they allowed the streamers to reveal information about Greymoor.
We knew the Werewolf changes were coming because after I saw the stats on the Fextralife Video I shared it with the forums and people saw that and Hack the Minotaur Made his video about it and my thread+ Hacks Video got the Word out about it and I'm sure people talked a lot about it in Discords.
Anyways going by Zenimax the Werewolf Update is Indeed Coming With Greymoor. What was revealed was a lot of what we knew was coming as shown by the Fextra Video.

U26 not only has Vampire updates, but Werewolf updates as well! We want to keep the “in your face” action of the Werewolf and also want to add rotation options when you’ve transformed into this ferocious form. For example, Pounce now has a follow up attack afterwards that also has an execute scaled on Bleed. We’re also making adjustments to allow buffing and debuffing to give a sense of being a pack leader. Sustain for werewolves is also something we noted needs an adjustment, so Hircine’s Bounty now has some added functionality if you’re already at full health and don’t need the heal from the ability. We believe these changes will keep the Werewolf playstyle competitive and entertaining for all players!

The new Werewolf Ability Buffs and effects. The ones we are going to see with Pts on Monday unless they adjusted some things with them this is what they will look like. By the sounds of it they are adjusting the Pack Leader Morph hopefully and we won't know what that will look like till Monday. So I do expect to see much of the Werewolf SKill Line to see a much needed overhaul and hopefully one that will make them viable.






So who is excited about the Werewolf Update?

Qbiken

The heal giving back stamina is completely pointless. The heal cost an absurd amount of magicka and there's no way in hell that you ever want to waste your precious magicka to get a small amount of stamina back, especially when you can get more stamina back through a simple heavy attack.

And in a PvP situation you're rarely ever going to be at 100% to trigger the effect where you get stamina back. Either lower the HP value when you get stamina back, or make it trigger whenever you heal to above a certain threshold.

With ww skills now offering passives for having them slotted, ZOS needs to make sure you can only benefit from these passives while in ww form. You shouldn't be able to get major brutality/savagery for having ww skills slotted in human form.

The rest of the changes looks promising, but I've a bad feeling about zos might mess with the ww passives, but we'll see.

Noxavian

Qbiken wrote: »

The heal giving back stamina is completely pointless. The heal cost an absurd amount of magicka and there's no way in hell that you ever want to waste your precious magicka to get a small amount of stamina back, especially when you can get more stamina back through a simple heavy attack.

And in a PvP situation you're rarely ever going to be at 100% to trigger the effect where you get stamina back. Either lower the HP value when you get stamina back, or make it trigger whenever you heal to above a certain threshold.

With ww skills now offering passives for having them slotted, ZOS needs to make sure you can only benefit from these passives while in ww form. You shouldn't be able to get major brutality/savagery for having ww skills slotted in human form.

The rest of the changes looks promising, but I've a bad feeling about zos might mess with the ww passives, but we'll see.

You use magicka for anything other than heals as a werewolf? Why is it a precious resource for a form that doesn't use it aside from healing

Qbiken

Noxavian wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

The heal giving back stamina is completely pointless. The heal cost an absurd amount of magicka and there's no way in hell that you ever want to waste your precious magicka to get a small amount of stamina back, especially when you can get more stamina back through a simple heavy attack.

And in a PvP situation you're rarely ever going to be at 100% to trigger the effect where you get stamina back. Either lower the HP value when you get stamina back, or make it trigger whenever you heal to above a certain threshold.

With ww skills now offering passives for having them slotted, ZOS needs to make sure you can only benefit from these passives while in ww form. You shouldn't be able to get major brutality/savagery for having ww skills slotted in human form.

The rest of the changes looks promising, but I've a bad feeling about zos might mess with the ww passives, but we'll see.

You use magicka for anything other than heals as a werewolf? Why is it a precious resource for a form that doesn't use it aside from healing

The most important resource for a ww in PvP is your magicka. Once you run out of magicka and can't heal, you're dead. The heal costs and absurd amount (5,2k on a sorc) which means you need to heavily invest into magicka management to sustain your heal. You want to use the heal when low on HP and since it's your only way to self heal as a ww, you can't spam it, hence why it's a precious resource (in cp you need closer to or above 20k magicka on a stamina based spec to even have a chance to sustain the ww heal).

You don't want to waste magicka on a heal when you're at full HP anyway, and if you're low in stamina, it means you're usually in a fight. And while fighting someone, you're rarely ever going to sit at a 100% HP anyway, hence making the rework pointless.

Chrlynsch

I don't think we can get too excited until we see what sustain help they give to our magicka pool, so far what I've seen they have done nothing to directly address this, and to me is the largest design flaw when looking at pvp gameplay.

We really wont be able to make any real assessments on the changes until we see the morphs and passives.

@Qbiken is right about the stamina restore on the heal. 100% is way too high of a threshold. We are going to see very little benefit from this besides running from objective to objective.

On top of that the blanket nerf to all healing in pvp is going to be a hard pill to swallow. Werewolf was already gasping for heals and I am afraid that if they don't adjust the potency of the wolf heal all the other quality of life changes aren't going to matter.

Alucardo

I've always had a soft spot for WW, and god knows I have tried to make it work, but it will always be trash.

Thevampirenight

Alucardo wrote: »

I've always had a soft spot for WW, and god knows I have tried to make it work, but it will always be trash.

Well maybe they won't be with Greymoor we will have to wait and see.

Greek_Hellspawn

Why not make roar the cc of werewolf cost magicka and make the heal cost stamina? I think it makes more sense. Plus i think it would be nice to add minor vitality to the heal ability as passive, and give major brutality to another ability.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. WW currently is useless and should be buffed. But, I hope they won't get over-buffed. The thing is that WW was at some point in a great spot, where you had to build for it to work... and it was possible. You could make a build that was weaker in human form than non-ww build, but once you transformed - it was working and beneficial.

Right now it is not beneficial at all. I just hope it won't be this crazy year-long loop of buffs and ultra heavy nerfs in the end...

SpiderKnight

450% more damage to enemies under 100% health....wut?

Not that this is the worst, but I don't want to see ww go back to what it was last summer, anyone could faceroll ww and it got real annoying in BGs.

Anhedonie

I mean, some of these changes are good, but WW needed sustain adjustment is several ways. Like better passive stamina regeneration and cheaper skills.

Chrlynsch

SpiderKnight wrote: »

450% more damage to enemies under 100% health....wut?

Not that this is the worst, but I don't want to see ww go back to what it was last summer, anyone could faceroll ww and it got real annoying in BGs.

The bleed damage scales up to 450% based on the health. Or close to 4.5%/% if you compare tooltip damage to the other abilities the bleed really only becomes worth using after the target reaches 40% like other exicute abilities in the game it is best to utilize on low target enemies.

Kilcosu

reserving most of the judgment until the full pts notes come out, but I will say that I would have rather had an execute mechanic of sorts attached to howl rather than pounce. I'm seeing Sustain issues everywhere with what little changes shown.

I mean... over 8k stamina needed for that carnage proc? that is 20% of a 40k stamina build and its on a gap closer with a time restriction?

why can't they just read the feedback thread

Nerouyn

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Why not make roar the cc of werewolf cost magicka and make the heal cost stamina? I think it makes more sense. Plus i think it would be nice to add minor vitality to the heal ability as passive, and give major brutality to another ability.

My guess / hope is that they're moving towards making WW's viable for magicka players. Which would be greatly appreciated by eg. mag wardens, who presently have about a third of a class.

Every other elite in the game scales to the highest of magicka / stamina, or health. Werewolf is the final holdout.

By making everything except the heal consume stamina, and making the heal scale to max health, it puts WWs in a good position to be viable for mag players.

eg. as is they could simply swap (when in WW form) max magicka / stamina and spell / weapon damage values for mag players.

Greek_Hellspawn

Nerouyn wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Why not make roar the cc of werewolf cost magicka and make the heal cost stamina? I think it makes more sense. Plus i think it would be nice to add minor vitality to the heal ability as passive, and give major brutality to another ability.

My guess / hope is that they're moving towards making WW's viable for magicka players. Which would be greatly appreciated by eg. mag wardens, who presently have about a third of a class.

Every other elite in the game scales to the highest of magicka / stamina, or health. Werewolf is the final holdout.

By making everything except the heal consume stamina, and making the heal scale to max health, it puts WWs in a good position to be viable for mag players.

eg. as is they could simply swap (when in WW form) max magicka / stamina and spell / weapon damage values for mag players.

Nah werewolf as it is now could never be used by a magicka character if you want to be competitive. Also magicka have vampire so werewolf should be stamina. Look at the new vampire most skills are magicka based, so werewolf should have all skills cost stamina or at least make the cc cost magicka not the heal which is very important if you want to survive. Speakings strictly from no cp battlegrounds experience.

DocFrost72

Qbiken wrote: »

The heal giving back stamina is completely pointless. The heal cost an absurd amount of magicka and there's no way in hell that you ever want to waste your precious magicka to get a small amount of stamina back, especially when you can get more stamina back through a simple heavy attack.

And in a PvP situation you're rarely ever going to be at 100% to trigger the effect where you get stamina back. Either lower the HP value when you get stamina back, or make it trigger whenever you heal to above a certain threshold.

Came here to say exactly this, but you beat me to it. Have an agree.

On a related note: why is it so darn unreasonable for a werewolf to get a reliable heal?

Chrlynsch

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

The heal giving back stamina is completely pointless. The heal cost an absurd amount of magicka and there's no way in hell that you ever want to waste your precious magicka to get a small amount of stamina back, especially when you can get more stamina back through a simple heavy attack.

And in a PvP situation you're rarely ever going to be at 100% to trigger the effect where you get stamina back. Either lower the HP value when you get stamina back, or make it trigger whenever you heal to above a certain threshold.

Came here to say exactly this, but you beat me to it. Have an agree.

On a related note: why is it so darn unreasonable for a werewolf to get a reliable heal?

Because people prefer easy kills.

Ruder

They need to reduce the heal cost with at least 25% given the incoming healing nerf..

5750 magicka for base heal that will heal you between 4-7k( non crit in PvP) is hilarious.

Now let's include some modifiers:
Assuming you want to run Newmoon - your heal becomes 6200 magicka

Now let's add Kena if you want more damage - 6500 magicka

Now lets add a magicka cost poison - 7000 magicka

And guess what, in No-CP PvP your magicka pool on a WW is no more than 15k this means that you can heal only TWICE before you get helpless like a Blind Kitten.

xXMeowMeowXx

My thoughts are that they should finally keep their promises and fix the games performance

Chrlynsch

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

My thoughts are that they should finally keep their promises and fix the games performance

Maybe keep posts like these in their respective threads.

Ruder

The other major flaw of WW is the lack of purge and snare removal, my suggestion is:

Add additional effect to WW roll dodge to gives Snare Immunity for 2 seconds (along side the root immunity for 2 seconds)

Eirikir

If vampires get an overdrive version like our's in their Scion form but still get benefit from their passives if even partially then I hope we get some benefit in non-wolf form.

Otherwise I'm hopeful for some changes.

Dracane

I was never under the impression that Werewolf needed any offensive update or buffs.
I find most of these buffs okay, but not the execute that pounce receives. I guess it makes sense in a way. They want Werewolves to be a counter to vampires and vampires are obviously aimed at being played at low health to gain maximum potential.

Eviscerate (new spammable) deals more damage based on your missing health and gains crit chance and vampire gains damage reduction on low health. Though I feel it might be very overtuned to give it such a strong damage over time effect. And whether or not a playstyle that literally requires little more than light attack spam to deal massive dps is in need of a sustain buff, I would question as well. I do not see hircines bounties stamina restore being a useful thing anyway, so that point can be ignored.

The only reason Werewolves are reasonable right now, is that they loose alot of cheese mechanics that the classes have and some of their % damage mititgation. They need to be careful to not make werewolves tankier on top of all this damage.

notvenousdrake

Decent but not nearly enough.

Mr_Walker

Chrlynsch wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

My thoughts are that they should finally keep their promises and fix the games performance

Maybe keep posts like these in their respective threads.

He has a point. Adjustments for PvP are pointless as long as it's broken.

Ruder wrote: »

The other major flaw of WW is the lack of purge and snare removal, my suggestion is:

Add additional effect to WW roll dodge to gives Snare Immunity for 2 seconds (along side the root immunity for 2 seconds)

Great idea, it will be as functional as current CC immunity and break free.

HoyaCarnosa

Here is still hope that with the upcoming justice system changes the transformations will be a toggle and that the current "transformation timer " will instead be a buff to strenght, so after this buff runs out you stay ww but fight with normal character strenght until you transform again to regain this buff ( lets name it "Hircine´s Ferocitiy"), also your ww skill line lvl will just be raised when you get kills while that buff is active ( currently your skill lvl rises while you are transformed and get kills), it would allow them to put some skins for ww (and vampire) transformations in the game(as quest rewards / in crown store / as event rewards), maybe we could even lurk around as ww.