So heres an idea. . . A fourth class skill line

OWLTHEMAD

Bear with me here guys cuz i know a lot of you will knee jerk shoot it down. But think about it, a new skill line that would be good for EVERYONE because its built for your class. Maybe it could be something you earn, or maybe it could fill the massive gaps in everybodies toolkits.

Many players tend to focus on a single class. Im mostly one. There are many others.often times when new skill lines pop up they simply arent relevant towards someones class or 'subclass' (mag or stam) leaving some players without any meaningful advancement in some content.

There are alot of people up here whos biggest complaint is not having enough stam options or wanting mag or stam equivalents available to their respective class.

I myself dont play stam but fact of the matter is they simply arent that different from eachother.
Stam classes use mostly weapon skills and are very light on class skills. I know some classes have been BEGGING for a stam spammable. What usually happens is a totally viable mag option is mutilated to get it.

With a fourth skill line perhaps as something you have to earn for your class specifically, you can gain new tools to fill in all the gaps. We can add new passives that can help redefine and enhance our class identity, while also adding tools to allow the different classes to be more viable in different roles from before.

This will also create far more build variety if balanced correctly to allow different EQUAL approaches untoward the same goal.

If you think this is a cool idea please share what youd like to see in your class.

If you disagree, breakdown why, and if you can offer up your own ideas in how it can be implemented to make it viable

Expert

This is a strong idea and do support it, however it can completely change a game and destablize combat. Still endorse the idea, but we do have a handful of bugs that make a good chunk of the skills nonfunctional.

Expert

Another idea could be to add a 3rd morph options to every skill instead of an additional skill line.

Alienoutlaw

there's not enough room on the bars for all the skill lines we have now

OWLTHEMAD

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there's not enough room on the bars for all the skill lines we have now

Thats what keeps it balanced and allows build variety! OPTIONS!

Though ill admit if they dont get better and more creative with skill design and function (its all about the numbers right now) it could fall flat or worse, risk a repeat of what happened with the dot meta where we had to many skills of similar function that it payed too much to simply stack.

OWLTHEMAD

Expert wrote: »

Another idea could be to add a 3rd morph options to every skill instead of an additional skill line.

I very much like this idea as well. However i see it as an either or situation and think that ALL the classes could do with a nother line of passive skills to further differentiate them and cement their individual identities and style.

They play such a large role without ever being seen in action and really help define the way a class is played.

VocalThought

So people want more stamina options for class skills, more magicka options for weapon skills, more guild skills lines for more alternatives to class abilities, more weapons to have more combat options, and more world skills to improve role-play options. I think the biggest problem is that people don't feel like they can create their ideal character with the tools provided in the sandbox we were placed in. I think the game does a good job with balancing Stam Class abilities with Mag Class abilities. At least most of them seem believable. I took it that the class abilities required mental abilities or magic, whereas weapons or class stam morph are, literally, physical abilities. I don't there to be physical morphs that don't make sense. There are already a few in the game, like Hurricane and Skeletal Archer, but I guess I can mentally make that leap. I also wonder what Stam class abilities do you think are missing from the class to create awhole new class line? I think anything you would add to a class that stamina based could be simply added to the world or guild skill line.

Red_Feather

When I ran out of skills to chase and level I drifted off and played other games. I barely touch ESO in between chapters. I really wish guild wars was still doing expansions. I loved the hunt for skills and making builds in that game and would never have left. Look at the skills and builds.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill#Skill_quantity

OWLTHEMAD

VocalThought wrote: »

So people want more stamina options for class skills, more magicka options for weapon skills, more guild skills lines for more alternatives to class abilities, more weapons to have more combat options, and more world skills to improve role-play options. I think the biggest problem is that people don't feel like they can create their ideal character with the tools provided in the sandbox we were placed in. I think the game does a good job with balancing Stam Class abilities with Mag Class abilities. At least most of them seem believable. I took it that the class abilities required mental abilities or magic, whereas weapons or class stam morph are, literally, physical abilities. I don't there to be physical morphs that don't make sense. There are already a few in the game, like Hurricane and Skeletal Archer, but I guess I can mentally make that leap. I also wonder what Stam class abilities do you think are missing from the class to create awhole new class line? I think anything you would add to a class that stamina based could be simply added to the world or guild skill line.

Well, its not just about stam abilities. I merely used that as an example because i hear the complaints frequently. Its about adding new variety, identity and tools that are unique to the different classes, the idea being to shake up the meta a bit and not be quite so one size must fit all.

I think it should break down as class first, then weapon, then everything else

So i actually do agree there should be more weapons options as well. Weather as alternate lines in conjunction with the current ones or new weapons entirely.

I personally feel the design of the skill system in this game is far too restricting for the number of skills in the game. Likewise i feel that the constant addition of guild and world skills are partially to blame.

Taking the stam example. If you add the new abilities into the world or weapon skill lines you simply return to the flavor of the month meta and this will harm the variety and class identity that this idea pursues.

This is why the meta is stale to begin with and why all stam builds play kind of samey. Mag builds are very slowly becoming the same way. This is homogenization. Keeping the stam example going. . . We already have stam spammables in weapon skill lines. Most classes use the same ones.

By adding a new class skill line you can shake up the meta and create new viable approaches to endgame content that wont necessarily be used by the vast majority of players. I think this could seriously reinvigorste the game and bring more playstyles unique to individual classes

Alucardo

That's a lot of new abilities. While I'm not against the idea, I just don't see ZOS coming up with so many new skills and morphs.
Maybe it would be easier to increase the morph options of the skill lines to 3 instead. There's be so many times where magicka and stamina have fought over morphs, like DKs and Sorcs for example. If there was a third option, it could open up more balance between the two specs and increase build diversity. Stam sorcs might actually be able to make use of their class skills for a change, and get an ultimate.

JinMori

Expert wrote: »

Another idea could be to add a 3rd morph options to every skill instead of an additional skill line.

Or both.

What i would do personally is this, make a few 3rd morph options for some of the best and most useful abilities in the game, and then i would start developing a 4th skilline for classes and slowly incorporate 3rd morph options over time.

I would also add a 6th bar slot.

Turelus

JinMori wrote: »

Expert wrote: »

Another idea could be to add a 3rd morph options to every skill instead of an additional skill line.

Or both.

I would love to have more options but... we struggle to get balance with the ones we already have.

Wandering_Immigrant

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

VocalThought wrote: »

So people want more stamina options for class skills, more magicka options for weapon skills, more guild skills lines for more alternatives to class abilities, more weapons to have more combat options, and more world skills to improve role-play options. I think the biggest problem is that people don't feel like they can create their ideal character with the tools provided in the sandbox we were placed in. I think the game does a good job with balancing Stam Class abilities with Mag Class abilities. At least most of them seem believable. I took it that the class abilities required mental abilities or magic, whereas weapons or class stam morph are, literally, physical abilities. I don't there to be physical morphs that don't make sense. There are already a few in the game, like Hurricane and Skeletal Archer, but I guess I can mentally make that leap. I also wonder what Stam class abilities do you think are missing from the class to create awhole new class line? I think anything you would add to a class that stamina based could be simply added to the world or guild skill line.

Well, its not just about stam abilities. I merely used that as an example because i hear the complaints frequently. Its about adding new variety, identity and tools that are unique to the different classes, the idea being to shake up the meta a bit and not be quite so one size must fit all.

I think it should break down as class first, then weapon, then everything else

So i actually do agree there should be more weapons options as well. Weather as alternate lines in conjunction with the current ones or new weapons entirely.

I personally feel the design of the skill system in this game is far too restricting for the number of skills in the game. Likewise i feel that the constant addition of guild and world skills are partially to blame.

Taking the stam example. If you add the new abilities into the world or weapon skill lines you simply return to the flavor of the month meta and this will harm the variety and class identity that this idea pursues.

This is why the meta is stale to begin with and why all stam builds play kind of samey. Mag builds are very slowly becoming the same way. This is homogenization. Keeping the stam example going. . . We already have stam spammables in weapon skill lines. Most classes use the same ones.

By adding a new class skill line you can shake up the meta and create new viable approaches to endgame content that wont necessarily be used by the vast majority of players. I think this could seriously reinvigorste the game and bring more playstyles unique to individual classes

The thing is though, if they're viable, they will be used by the vast majority of players. For the most part people end up with very similar builds not because there's no other options, but because there's no better options.

We're all working within the same parameters and we all want similar functionality, and for the most part, we're gonna take the path of least resistance. But those gaps you want to fill, they force us to compromise, and those compromises are what create diversity, because we all have a different way we're willing to bend to get the result we want. Some people are willing to give up a slot on their skillbar by slotting an ability they'll never use just for the passive it gives them because they can't stand the idea of having to chug potions just to get a common buff that other classes get for free. I can't stand the idea of wasting an ability slot, so I'm an alche-holic. Still other people will give up a 5th set bonus for that same buff. Would I use use an ability that was useful and also as an aside gave me the buffs I need relevant to my class/build? Of course I would, but 10 times out of 10 so would those other two groups.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more abilities, the more the better, I love having decisions to make in games. But this Gap filling sounds like ease of access, putting everything we need right there in the class so we no longer have to compromise, and that's bad. Don't confuse ease of access for diversity, more abilities doesn't always mean more decisions to make.

AinSoph

I'd rather have this than another power-creeped new class.

tsaescishoeshiner

A fourth class skill line would be way too much to balance, given that that currently would involve 36 on-theme class skills (72 morphs) and 30 passives that work together, are unique skills, and work with the rest of the class while not being over-powered. Setting aside that each class would need a new theme for its new skill line (our current themes have already been altered and changed a lot). It could be cool, I just doubt it would lead to meaningful skills. Seems a bit overcomplicating

I think adding a 6th skill to each class skill line is more manageable, can fill the gaps in each class a little bit, and could be a cool unlock. They seem to be have changed skills to make them fit certain roles (Dark Cloak for tanking), so why not just make a new skill?

I don't think it's necessary, tho

redgreensunset

Two major objections:

1) Balancing classes is already a headache, this would make it exponentially worse.

2) What would the skills be. Remember you need to put in 15 new skills (five base abilities and two morphs) for each class. We currently have six classes so that would mean coming up with ideas ninety new abilities that aren't already covered by another skill. It would be a freaking nightmare and result in numerous totally useless abilities. I can't honestly see how it would contribute to any kind of build diversity, we have enough skills with little or no use as it is getting more wouldn't significantly change anything.
And this is just active abilities, when we add passives it just becomes ridiculous how untenable this suggestion is.

Faulgor

Yes, this has been suggested before. Maybe even two possible new skill lines per class, so you have to chose between two "sub classes". E.g. Templar can become Crusader or Pilgrim, etc.

There is no shortage of suggestions, but convincing ZOS to add new skills is like pulling teeth. They'd rather add new classes which we can't use with our existing characters, or pointless mini games.

At the same time, I've never seen an MMO community so resistant to adding new ... anything. It always ends in cries about their precious balance, as if the game has been balanced at any point in the last 6 years.

JinMori

Faulgor wrote: »

Yes, this has been suggested before. Maybe even two possible new skill lines per class, so you have to chose between two "sub classes". E.g. Templar can become Crusader or Pilgrim, etc.

There is no shortage of suggestions, but convincing ZOS to add new skills is like pulling teeth. They'd rather add new classes which we can't use with our existing characters, or pointless mini games.

At the same time, I've never seen an MMO community so resistant to adding new ... anything. It always ends in cries about their precious balance, as if the game has been balanced at any point in the last 6 years.

I agree, this "but the balance" thing is getting ridiculous.

Do you want more stuff? No because balance.... People are acting like classes have a massive disparity like 60 % more or less efficiency between the best and the worst, and that is just false, all it would take to properly balance the classes is some small tweaks to abilities and especially some class passives.

One of the reasons why stam necro is so good at dps is exactly because they have excellent passives. Just take the example.

Necro passives are useful for both mag and stam, there is not a single dps passive that comes to mind that does not have a use for both stam and magicka, while a lot of passives from other classes come to mind when i think about passives that are almost useless, or are useful for only 1 type of resource.

Necro does have a problem of it own though, some of the skills are very clunky.

Luckylancer

What you suggest feels like more homogenisation.

WildRaptorX

I always thought this too. Or they could add more skills to a skill like

Juhasow

Here is another idea. No thank You.

ArcVelarian

Or just add 3rd morph options for various class abilities. *cough* Stam Whip *cough*