Maintenance for the week of May 27:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 27

Summon twilight tormentors morph is a prime example of things that dont make sense.

phoenixkungfu
phoenixkungfu
✭✭✭✭
So for the cost of no pet heal and pet damage at the way it should be. For 2524 magic you can cause your pet to deal 53% more damage above enemies 50% health. WHAT KIND OF MESS IS THIS. This is the most confusing morph in the game that is the least practical in video game HISTORY. Basically you only see usefulness of this pet on a target dummy at 6million health. The damage vs Sustain option is so one sided that your all but force to take the twilight heal.
Who came up with this confusing mess and how much longer before you change it. The pet SHOULD DO DAMAGE OR NOT for 2500 I magic.

Honestly if your concern is new player's this is the kind of changes that should be made.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    The point is simple tormentors is the ONLY MORPH IN THE GAME. With a 50% above health cost. Its confusing and doesn't make sense. If you want to be a damage pet sorcerer. What the Incentive to use your magic on the morph. If anything the morph should be in reverse and do more damage to targets under 50%. Or simply do damage or not.

    Screenshot_42.png

    I'm not sure what you're complaining about. If anything this skill is amazing at whacking people down to low health so you can hit them with Mage's Fury.Also you're complaining about the difference between casting it for 2701 magicka and 2970 magicka. That is a 269 magicka difference and you'd be an idiot to spam that since it works for 15 seconds.

    Edit:
    Also forgot to mention those numbers are as a Breton running 6 pieces of Light armor. Even then the skill cost increase isn't even that high and is very cheap compared to abilities from other classes like the Magicka Dragonknight that have similar purposes of dealing more damage.
    Edited by Vevvev on April 7, 2020 6:11PM
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
    Options
  • idk
    idk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭


    I do not understand this one as the tooltip is very clear. This is the first person who plays a sorc that I have heard say it is confusing.

    Target is about 50% health, and the active ability does more damage. That is not vague at all. The logic is sound as well. This morph allows the sorc to increase damage early in the fight and then use their execute to increase damage later in the fight. This enable the sorc to get maximum use out of both skills.

    [Edit tot remove quote]
    Edited by [Deleted User] on April 7, 2020 7:34PM
    Options
  • Mindcr0w
    Mindcr0w
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Reverse execute mechanics are quite common in mmo's and this goes well with Amplitude.

    The Twilight is fine.
    Edited by Mindcr0w on April 7, 2020 6:15PM
    Options
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The active ability of the Tormentor is completely pointless. Even with Daedric Prey active, the bonus damage works out to less than 1 spammable over the duration. You’re better off never casting the Tormentor after it is summoned, and just use another Force Pulse or Ele Weapon instead (more damage, instantly, with lower cost, and no conditions on enemy health).

    As for morph choice, back in Elsweyr patch and before the Matriarch was the obvious choice because the heal could be useful, and even back then the Tormentor’s active ability was weak (and that was when Prey gave 55% or 40% bonus, now it is only 20%). ZOS didn’t like this, do in Scalebreaker they cut the damage of the Matriarch’s auto attacks in half, making it only useful for healers now. It’s just another example of sledgehammer balancing, a 10-20% damage reduction would have made it an interesting decision (exactly the same mistake that was done to Funnel Health and Refreshing Path, deleted from damage builds and given to pure healers). Damage dealers are left with no choice, and no useful active ability. Just go with the Tormentor and never use that button once it is summoned.
    Edited by WrathOfInnos on April 7, 2020 6:21PM
    Options
  • phoenixkungfu
    phoenixkungfu
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vevvev wrote: »

    The point is simple tormentors is the ONLY MORPH IN THE GAME. With a 50% above health cost. Its confusing and doesn't make sense. If you want to be a damage pet sorcerer. What the Incentive to use your magic on the morph. If anything the morph should be in reverse and do more damage to targets under 50%. Or simply do damage or not.

    Screenshot_42.png

    I'm not sure what you're complaining about. If anything this skill is amazing at whacking people down to low health so you can hit them with Mage's Fury.Also you're complaining about the difference between casting it for 2701 magicka and 2970 magicka. That is a 269 magicka difference and you'd be an idiot to spam that since it works for 15 seconds.

    Let's be honest.
    (Spam sorcerer) are using the healing morph twilight. These sorcerer are typically identity by a fire staves spamming a combo over and over no matter the situation or environment. USING 1 TWLIGHT PET. This is due to steak and twilight heal.

    (Heavy attack pet sorcerer) these sorcerer are typically defined by 2 pets. Looking for max pet and heavy attack damage. These sorcerer mostly have conditions to burst. Like off balance or curse boosting pet damage. The twilight tormentors morph that increase twilight damage should pair with a heavy attack sorcerer.
    THE ABOVE 50% PAIRS WITH A SPAM SORCERER

    1. Pet sorcerer have little bar SPACE
    2. nerf to make a choice between a heal or damage

    It just doesn't make sense that this morph is on targets above 50%. Its not Practical.
    Options
  • idk
    idk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vevvev wrote: »

    The point is simple tormentors is the ONLY MORPH IN THE GAME. With a 50% above health cost. Its confusing and doesn't make sense. If you want to be a damage pet sorcerer. What the Incentive to use your magic on the morph. If anything the morph should be in reverse and do more damage to targets under 50%. Or simply do damage or not.

    Screenshot_42.png

    I'm not sure what you're complaining about. If anything this skill is amazing at whacking people down to low health so you can hit them with Mage's Fury.Also you're complaining about the difference between casting it for 2701 magicka and 2970 magicka. That is a 269 magicka difference and you'd be an idiot to spam that since it works for 15 seconds.

    Let's be honest.
    (Spam sorcerer) are using the healing morph twilight. These sorcerer are typically identity by a fire staves spamming a combo over and over no matter the situation or environment. USING 1 TWLIGHT PET. This is due to steak and twilight heal.

    (Heavy attack pet sorcerer) these sorcerer are typically defined by 2 pets. Looking for max pet and heavy attack damage. These sorcerer mostly have conditions to burst. Like off balance or curse boosting pet damage. The twilight tormentors morph that increase twilight damage should pair with a heavy attack sorcerer.
    THE ABOVE 50% PAIRS WITH A SPAM SORCERER

    1. Pet sorcerer have little bar SPACE
    2. nerf to make a choice between a heal or damage

    It just doesn't make sense that this morph is on targets above 50%. Its not Practical.

    If we are going to be honest then you are cherry-picking two types of builds in an attempt to make a point and ignoring the bulk of the sorc players in the game all because several of us pointed out the shortcomings of the statement in the OP.
    Options
  • phoenixkungfu
    phoenixkungfu
    ✭✭✭✭
    The active ability of the Tormentor is completely pointless. Even with Daedric Prey active, the bonus damage works out to less than 1 spammable over the duration. You’re better off never casting the Tormentor after it is summoned, and just use another Force Pulse or Ele Weapon instead (more damage, instantly, with lower cost, and no conditions on enemy health).

    As for morph choice, back in Elsweyr patch and before the Matriarch was the obvious choice because the heal could be useful, and even back then the Tormentor’s active ability was weak (and that was when Prey gave 55% or 40% bonus, now it is only 20%). ZOS didn’t like this, do in Scalebreaker they cut the damage of the Matriarch’s auto attacks in half, making it only useful for healers now. It’s just another example of sledgehammer balancing, a 10-20% damage reduction would have made it an interesting decision (exactly the same mistake that was done to Funnel Health and Refreshing Path, deleted from damage builds and given to pure healers). Damage dealers are left with no choice, and no useful active ability. Just go with the Tormentor and never use that button once it is summoned.

    Even on a target dummy for pve. The morph doesn't make sense. This doesn't fit sorcerer identity. The morph needs a rework.
    Edited by phoenixkungfu on April 7, 2020 6:27PM
    Options
  • oxygen_thief
    oxygen_thief
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vevvev wrote: »
    If anything this skill is amazing at whacking people down to low health so you can hit them with Mage's Fury.Also you're complaining about the difference between casting it for 2701 magicka and 2970 magicka. That is a 269 magicka difference and you'd be an idiot to spam that since it works for 15 seconds.
    .

    wait do you want to say that sorcs use the morph in pvp?
    Options
  • ZonasArch
    ZonasArch
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    So for the cost of no pet heal and pet damage at the way it should be. For 2524 magic you can cause your pet to deal 53% more damage above enemies 50% health. WHAT KIND OF MESS IS THIS. This is the most confusing morph in the game that is the least practical in video game HISTORY. Basically you only see usefulness of this pet on a target dummy at 6million health. The damage vs Sustain option is so one sided that your all but force to take the twilight heal.
    Who came up with this confusing mess and how much longer before you change it. The pet SHOULD DO DAMAGE OR NOT for 2500 I magic.

    Honestly if your concern is new player's this is the kind of changes that should be made.

    [snip] So when you come to the forums with nothing buta single class focused negativity, do you really expect anything else but negativity as a rebuttal?

    I'm sorry you're so unsatisfied with your sorcs, but maybe it's time for you to maybe expand your horizons a bit [snip]. At least you'll get people really surprised when you change your record from sorcs to literally anything else.

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on April 8, 2020 2:37PM
    Options
  • Kingslayer513
    Kingslayer513
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The active ability of the Tormentor is completely pointless. Even with Daedric Prey active, the bonus damage works out to less than 1 spammable over the duration. You’re better off never casting the Tormentor after it is summoned, and just use another Force Pulse or Ele Weapon instead (more damage, instantly, with lower cost, and no conditions on enemy health).

    As for morph choice, back in Elsweyr patch and before the Matriarch was the obvious choice because the heal could be useful, and even back then the Tormentor’s active ability was weak (and that was when Prey gave 55% or 40% bonus, now it is only 20%). ZOS didn’t like this, do in Scalebreaker they cut the damage of the Matriarch’s auto attacks in half, making it only useful for healers now. It’s just another example of sledgehammer balancing, a 10-20% damage reduction would have made it an interesting decision (exactly the same mistake that was done to Funnel Health and Refreshing Path, deleted from damage builds and given to pure healers). Damage dealers are left with no choice, and no useful active ability. Just go with the Tormentor and never use that button once it is summoned.

    This. I disagree with OP that the high health damage bonus doesn't make sense. It makes perfect sense, but the actual implementation is flawed as WrathOfInnos points out.

    Imo the bigger elephant in the room is what ZOS did with the heal. Sorc DD's lost their reliable heal due to typical ZOS overnerf. Critical surge is NOT the solution. Dark deal is also NOT the solution. Taking the pure healing morph of twilight is NOT the solution. Every class should have access to a reliable on-demand heal as a DD, and dark deal's cast time just doesn't cut it.

    I'd rather ZOS scraps the current tormentor morph. It can stay the damage morph, but the active effect should burst heal the caster only. The healer morph can stay as is healing multiple targets other than the caster. The high health damage bonus can go the way of the dinosaur.
    Options
  • ZonasArch
    ZonasArch
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    iCaliban wrote: »
    Why do you insist on posting these non constructive rants?

    The point is simple tormentors is the ONLY MORPH IN THE GAME. With a 50% above health cost. Its confusing and doesn't make sense. If you want to be a damage pet sorcerer. What the Incentive to use your magic on the morph. If anything the morph should be in reverse and do more damage to targets under 50%. Or simply do damage or not.

    You fail to consider that this reverse execute falls in line with that other passive, making your damage twilight really strong against full health enemies.
    Options
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    The active ability of the Tormentor is completely pointless. Even with Daedric Prey active, the bonus damage works out to less than 1 spammable over the duration. You’re better off never casting the Tormentor after it is summoned, and just use another Force Pulse or Ele Weapon instead (more damage, instantly, with lower cost, and no conditions on enemy health).

    As for morph choice, back in Elsweyr patch and before the Matriarch was the obvious choice because the heal could be useful, and even back then the Tormentor’s active ability was weak (and that was when Prey gave 55% or 40% bonus, now it is only 20%). ZOS didn’t like this, do in Scalebreaker they cut the damage of the Matriarch’s auto attacks in half, making it only useful for healers now. It’s just another example of sledgehammer balancing, a 10-20% damage reduction would have made it an interesting decision (exactly the same mistake that was done to Funnel Health and Refreshing Path, deleted from damage builds and given to pure healers). Damage dealers are left with no choice, and no useful active ability. Just go with the Tormentor and never use that button once it is summoned.

    Is it useful to activate the Tormentor exactly once, that is, before combat actually starts? As a pre-buff more or less.
    Options
  • Kingslayer513
    Kingslayer513
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    iCaliban wrote: »
    Why do you insist on posting these non constructive rants?

    The point is simple tormentors is the ONLY MORPH IN THE GAME. With a 50% above health cost. Its confusing and doesn't make sense. If you want to be a damage pet sorcerer. What the Incentive to use your magic on the morph. If anything the morph should be in reverse and do more damage to targets under 50%. Or simply do damage or not.

    You fail to consider that this reverse execute falls in line with that other passive, making your damage twilight really strong against full health enemies.

    Thematically it makes sense, but in practice the damage output isn't that great. You're better off just letting the twilight passively do damage. This should be a red flag in design.

    I don't know why OP is going on about it being "confusing" or whatever, but the morph definitely should be reworked.
    Options
  • karekiz
    karekiz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Its not hard to understand.

    Its just an un-fun ability in general.
    Options
  • CassandraGemini
    CassandraGemini
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    So for the cost of no pet heal and pet damage at the way it should be. For 2524 magic you can cause your pet to deal 53% more damage above enemies 50% health. WHAT KIND OF MESS IS THIS. This is the most confusing morph in the game that is the least practical in video game HISTORY. Basically you only see usefulness of this pet on a target dummy at 6million health. The damage vs Sustain option is so one sided that your all but force to take the twilight heal.
    Who came up with this confusing mess and how much longer before you change it. The pet SHOULD DO DAMAGE OR NOT for 2500 I magic.

    Honestly if your concern is new player's this is the kind of changes that should be made.

    [snip] So when you come to the forums with nothing buta single class focused negativity, do you really expect anything else but negativity as a rebuttal?

    I'm sorry you're so unsatisfied with your sorcs, but maybe it's time for you to maybe expand your horizons a bit [snip]. At least you'll get people really surprised when you change your record from sorcs to literally anything else.

    [edited for baiting]

    One of his biggest problems is his constant overexaggeration of certain things, just because he somehow feels like they don't fit his own personal build. It's hard to take someone seriously who keeps saying stuff like "it's the WORST morph in VIDEO GAME HISTORY!!!!!!". The all-caps writing he uses all the time is making my eyes hurt at this point.
    Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on April 8, 2020 2:39PM
    This poor little Bosmer stealth passive had passionate friends and a big loving family!

    Options
  • Dracane
    Dracane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem with pets is that they still cost way more than what the tooltip makes you believe.
    And of course that they still require 2 slots for how underwhelming they are.

    The Tormentor would be really nice if it only costs 1 slot. For 2, it is not worth it. Same goes for the Matriarch since they nerfed the damage. Also, Daedric Prey is very underwhelming now. Even when I still used pets after the nerf, I used echoing curse instead.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
    Options
  • gatekeeper13
    gatekeeper13
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    The morph is ok as it is. Its helps you do more damage to targets >50% health and helps you drop their health faster. When they drop below 25%, your Bloodthirsty jewelry will do the rest of the work. Could it do stable dps against all health %? Yes it could, but probably ZOS considered it would be overpowered. If that small gap from 50% to 25% causes you so much trouble, you can easily remove it and slot Familiar thats does stable extra aoe dps.

    No matter if the op is right or wrong, I dont get the aggressiveness against him from some of you. You act as if he insulted you personally. You really need to chill out.

    Edited by gatekeeper13 on April 8, 2020 7:34AM
    Options
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    It does actually fit, and it does make sense Its a Twilight Tormentor. The meaning of Tormentor a person (in this case a Daedra) who inflicts severe mental or physical suffering on someone.
    Now how this relates to the ability .
    The tormentor doesn't want to kill the Target right away so it casts lessor shocks which still will torment but will prolong the death.
    So the ability fits with the Summon it uses its more damaging attack while target is at full health because it knows it will likely survive a far more painful attack and then it can do lesser attacks so the suffering is prolonged and thus allows the death to that target to be slower and more painful. This kind of Daedra lives to Torment and Torture(Its Hinted at in the name) and likely likes prolong the Torture of its targets.

    The name fits very nicely with the mechanics of the ability and they did a very great job making it feel more immersive so no they shouldn't change the above 50% mechanic. Its a Tormentor Daedra that is its primary function and the mechanics back it up and to say otherwise wouldn't make much sense to me but it does not mean others might not see it that way.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on April 8, 2020 9:03AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
    Options
  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So for the cost of no pet heal and pet damage at the way it should be. For 2524 magic you can cause your pet to deal 53% more damage above enemies 50% health. WHAT KIND OF MESS IS THIS. This is the most confusing morph in the game that is the least practical in video game HISTORY. Basically you only see usefulness of this pet on a target dummy at 6million health. The damage vs Sustain option is so one sided that your all but force to take the twilight heal.
    Who came up with this confusing mess and how much longer before you change it. The pet SHOULD DO DAMAGE OR NOT for 2500 I magic.

    Honestly if your concern is new player's this is the kind of changes that should be made.

    You are complaining about a 53% increase in the pets damage, for 15 seconds, while the enemy is above 50% health. What the hell is there to complain about, its an excellent increase in damage per second and its cheap.

    The "execute" phase kicks in at 25% health (or for some skills/effects, at 50%), so the increase from the pet damage over 50% health, synergises very well.

    Ive rarely seen a more wrong headed post. Hopefully we can simply put it down to a lack of experience and knowledge.
    Options
  • ku5h
    ku5h
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The active ability of the Tormentor is completely pointless. Even with Daedric Prey active, the bonus damage works out to less than 1 spammable over the duration. You’re better off never casting the Tormentor after it is summoned, and just use another Force Pulse or Ele Weapon instead (more damage, instantly, with lower cost, and no conditions on enemy health).

    As for morph choice, back in Elsweyr patch and before the Matriarch was the obvious choice because the heal could be useful, and even back then the Tormentor’s active ability was weak (and that was when Prey gave 55% or 40% bonus, now it is only 20%). ZOS didn’t like this, do in Scalebreaker they cut the damage of the Matriarch’s auto attacks in half, making it only useful for healers now. It’s just another example of sledgehammer balancing, a 10-20% damage reduction would have made it an interesting decision (exactly the same mistake that was done to Funnel Health and Refreshing Path, deleted from damage builds and given to pure healers). Damage dealers are left with no choice, and no useful active ability. Just go with the Tormentor and never use that button once it is summoned.

    Even on a target dummy for pve. The morph doesn't make sense. This doesn't fit sorcerer identity. The morph needs a rework.

    You should consider stopping calling it "sorc identity" and refer to it as your own specific play style identity.
    Your HA lightning staff playstyle is not the only way Sorc can, or should be played.
    Options
  • phoenixkungfu
    phoenixkungfu
    ✭✭✭✭
    I have main a pet sorcerer for 273 days, (NOT HOURS DAY). I have more time invested then any poster combine. I use over 80% of the daedric summoning skill line. Summon twilight tormentors doesn't fix the modern nerf pet sorcerer. THE MORPH IS EXTREMELY OUTDATED and most of all over shadow by the useful morph matriarch. OVERALL A DAEDRIC SUMMONING SKILL LINE DOUBLE PET SORCERER IS heavy attacking. This isnt niche this is sorcerer pets(as in two) daedric summoning focus skill line playstyle. Yet the Incentive is to use matriarch support base over tormentors dps base.

    The morph activation of a limited low burst cancer conditions of "tormentors" DOESN'T COMPARE TO THE always any situation morph of matriarch. Tormentors NEEDS A MAJOR REWORK.

    As a pet sorcerer I want a morph that makes it fun and COMPETITIVE to be a dps build. Tormentors morph in no shape or form give the feeling of a unique playstyle from all the nerfs over the years. In fact tormentors morph FEEL LAZY AND ANGRY. After the nerf my personal feeling was here a damage morph just to have one.
    TO JUST NERF AND TAKE DAMAGE AWAY FROM A MORPH DOESN'T
    EQUAL BALANCE
    Most of all tormentors morph doesn't gives
    UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY
    as dps
    Compare

    To the matriarch morph
    UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY UTILITY
    of a support


    This is coming from the 273 days pet sorcerer not some other playstyle. A elder
    Edited by phoenixkungfu on April 8, 2020 12:22PM
    Options
  • ZOS_Lunar
    ZOS_Lunar
    admin
    Hi! We've removed some posts from this thread for violating our community rules on bashing.

    Remember, it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic.
    The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Options
    Staff Post
  • Kingslayer513
    Kingslayer513
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have main a pet sorcerer for 273 days, (NOT HOURS DAY). I have more time invested then any poster combine.
    Okay, I get that you want to feel special and validated but honestly just stop, you're embarrassing yourself. This is a 6 year old game, it is not uncommon for players to have well over a year (yes 365 days) of play time. You are not special, get over it.
    I use over 80% of the daedric summoning skill line. Summon twilight tormentors doesn't fix the modern nerf pet sorcerer. THE MORPH IS EXTREMELY OUTDATED and most of all over shadow by the useful morph matriarch. OVERALL A DAEDRIC SUMMONING SKILL LINE DOUBLE PET SORCERER IS heavy attacking. This isnt niche this is sorcerer pets(as in two) daedric summoning focus skill line playstyle.
    If you have been playing for 273 days and have not learned to do anything except heavy attack with 2 pets up then quite frankly you must have been role playing for all that time. Hate to break it to ya, but 2-pet light attack weaving magsorc is the highest dps variant of a magsorc. Pet sorcs =/= heavy attack builds. Only if you want to play that niche playstyle.
    Yet the Incentive is to use matriarch support base over tormentors dps base.
    False.
    The morph activation of a limited low burst cancer conditions of "tormentors" DOESN'T COMPARE TO THE always any situation morph of matriarch. Tormentors NEEDS A MAJOR REWORK.
    Except for the fact that tormentor does double the base damage of twilight, without factoring in the active effect at all.
    As a pet sorcerer I want a morph that makes it fun and COMPETITIVE to be a dps build.
    Endgame PVE magsorc dps is perfectly in line with other magicka classes, aside from magDK (which is an outlier to all).
    Options
  • JinMori
    JinMori
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    It's because amplitude, sorc has a reverse execute mechanic.

    The thing i dislike though, is how much better pet sorc is compared to non pet.

    They need to do something about bound aegis, not identical to the stam morph, but something needs to be done.
    Options
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    LiquidPony wrote: »
    The active ability of the Tormentor is completely pointless. Even with Daedric Prey active, the bonus damage works out to less than 1 spammable over the duration. You’re better off never casting the Tormentor after it is summoned, and just use another Force Pulse or Ele Weapon instead (more damage, instantly, with lower cost, and no conditions on enemy health).

    As for morph choice, back in Elsweyr patch and before the Matriarch was the obvious choice because the heal could be useful, and even back then the Tormentor’s active ability was weak (and that was when Prey gave 55% or 40% bonus, now it is only 20%). ZOS didn’t like this, do in Scalebreaker they cut the damage of the Matriarch’s auto attacks in half, making it only useful for healers now. It’s just another example of sledgehammer balancing, a 10-20% damage reduction would have made it an interesting decision (exactly the same mistake that was done to Funnel Health and Refreshing Path, deleted from damage builds and given to pure healers). Damage dealers are left with no choice, and no useful active ability. Just go with the Tormentor and never use that button once it is summoned.

    Is it useful to activate the Tormentor exactly once, that is, before combat actually starts? As a pre-buff more or less.

    @LiquidPony Yes, you can cast it once to get slightly more burst at the beginning of a fight. Over a 4 minute fight this one pre-cast of Tormentor works out to about 0.2% DPS. I’m not sure it’s even worth doing for that gain, since it means you also start the fight with 3k less Magicka.

    I’ve also done this method in Sunspire since you get multiple chances to pre-cast buffs and DoTs while dragons are flying. Since the Tormentor active only works above 50% boss health you can use this twice on Yolna and Lokke, adding approximately 0.4% single target DPS, but again starting each phase short 3k mag. On Navi you can do it 3 times, since he is at 60% health at the start of the 3rd ground phase.
    So for the cost of no pet heal and pet damage at the way it should be. For 2524 magic you can cause your pet to deal 53% more damage above enemies 50% health. WHAT KIND OF MESS IS THIS. This is the most confusing morph in the game that is the least practical in video game HISTORY. Basically you only see usefulness of this pet on a target dummy at 6million health. The damage vs Sustain option is so one sided that your all but force to take the twilight heal.
    Who came up with this confusing mess and how much longer before you change it. The pet SHOULD DO DAMAGE OR NOT for 2500 I magic.

    Honestly if your concern is new player's this is the kind of changes that should be made.

    You are complaining about a 53% increase in the pets damage, for 15 seconds, while the enemy is above 50% health. What the hell is there to complain about, its an excellent increase in damage per second and its cheap.

    The "execute" phase kicks in at 25% health (or for some skills/effects, at 50%), so the increase from the pet damage over 50% health, synergises very well.

    Ive rarely seen a more wrong headed post. Hopefully we can simply put it down to a lack of experience and knowledge.

    @Grianasteri That’s a pretty bold 3rd paragraph to follow being completely wrong in your first 2. Even above 50% enemy health, casting the Tormentor’s active ability is a DPS loss over using any spammable. It is far from “excellent”, and is the opposite of an “increase in damage per second”. It’s also not cheap, being one of the most expensive skills in a Sorc DPS build (higher cost than Force Pulse, Frags, Mages’ Wrath, Curse, Elemental Weapon, Boundless Storm, and Channeled Acceleration), it’s nearly as expensive as Mystic Orb.

    I don’t understand how anyone can defend this skill in its current state. Anyone who uses the active ability should take 5 minutes and go test for yourself. Clearly nobody believes those of us who have tested and confirmed it reduces DPS.

    It should either be massively buffed (100% increase to Tormentor damage for 15s?) or scrapped entirely and given the single target heal from the unmorphed Twilight (the Matriarch would keep the double heal as it’s morph effect).
    Options
  • ZOS_FalcoYamaoka
    ​Greetings,
    We had to remove some posts as it violated our rules around rude comments and baiting. Please be sure to keep discussions civil and constructive​. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.
    Options
    Staff Post
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    idk wrote: »

    I do not understand this one as the tooltip is very clear. This is the first person who plays a sorc that I have heard say it is confusing.

    Target is about 50% health, and the active ability does more damage. That is not vague at all. The logic is sound as well. This morph allows the sorc to increase damage early in the fight and then use their execute to increase damage later in the fight. This enable the sorc to get maximum use out of both skills.

    [Edit tot remove quote]

    As good as it might seems, it is bad. Tormentor Matriach take 2 slots and mostly affecive on targets above 50% HP, otherwise it is only for passive dmg and useless active skill, from PvE perspective. As for PvP, it can act is meat shield but still it takes 2 slots and only dmg dmg whereas twilight matriach does both dmg and heals and act as meat shield. The I believe the skill is lacking in usefulenss and should do more for a 2 slot skill. The active skill is reverse excute but only works to certain level, it should somehow work on low health targets or maybe it affect the caster. The skill is very dull to use and nowhere near the healing morph.
    Edited by universal_wrath on April 8, 2020 6:08PM
    Options
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    iCaliban wrote: »
    Why do you insist on posting these non constructive rants?

    The point is simple tormentors is the ONLY MORPH IN THE GAME. With a 50% above health cost. Its confusing and doesn't make sense. If you want to be a damage pet sorcerer. What the Incentive to use your magic on the morph. If anything the morph should be in reverse and do more damage to targets under 50%. Or simply do damage or not.

    You fail to consider that this reverse execute falls in line with that other passive, making your damage twilight really strong against full health enemies.

    Thematically it makes sense, but in practice the damage output isn't that great. You're better off just letting the twilight passively do damage. This should be a red flag in design.

    I don't know why OP is going on about it being "confusing" or whatever, but the morph definitely should be reworked.

    I think alcast pointed out this problem where using the active skill for tormentor is actual makes you do less dmg as supposed to let it do passive dmg.
    Options
  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Grianasteri That’s a pretty bold 3rd paragraph to follow being completely wrong in your first 2. Even above 50% enemy health, casting the Tormentor’s active ability is a DPS loss over using any spammable. It is far from “excellent”, and is the opposite of an “increase in damage per second”. It’s also not cheap, being one of the most expensive skills in a Sorc DPS build (higher cost than Force Pulse, Frags, Mages’ Wrath, Curse, Elemental Weapon, Boundless Storm, and Channeled Acceleration), it’s nearly as expensive as Mystic Orb.

    I don’t understand how anyone can defend this skill in its current state. Anyone who uses the active ability should take 5 minutes and go test for yourself. Clearly nobody believes those of us who have tested and confirmed it reduces DPS.

    It should either be massively buffed (100% increase to Tormentor damage for 15s?) or scrapped entirely and given the single target heal from the unmorphed Twilight (the Matriarch would keep the double heal as it’s morph effect).

    Except Im not completely wrong.

    From the tool tip of a random Petsorc build, if we take an average of 7 or 8 attacks within a 15 second period, lets say 7 to be conservative, then average out the kicks and zaps to around 3700 damage per attack, this results in damage of around 26,000. Now buff this by my Twighlight Tormentor special tool tip 53% = just under 14,000 further damage.

    I dont know what spammable you are using on a sorc, but mine dont do 14,000 damage on any tool tip. Again from the tool tips of a Petsorc, Crystal frags is about 12k, Force Pulse is about 8k, Elemental Wpn is about 8k. Not to mention that Tormentor is fire and forget, pop it, then get back to your rotation and damage dealing. I havnt even considered the effect of a further buff to the damage from curse.

    I stand corrected on the cost, my bad. I probably shouldnt have use the word excellent re the skill either. Good, or decent being more apt. I was just reacting to someone being so ridiculously negative about it, by being positive.

    What I can confirm, is that my dps goes up when I use this skill. I imagine that for less experienced players who do not have high qualith rotations, the skill can come in very handing for guaranteeing fire and forget, automatic damage. Perhaps for those with high quality rotations (a small % of the community) the outcome is different.

    Im not at the barracades defending the skill, I think it should be buffed. Im merely pointing out, as is so often the case, that it isnt as bad as many doom merchants claim, particularly the OP since he made some rather outlandish claims.

    Kind regards
    Options
  • barney2525
    barney2525
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    So for the cost of no pet heal and pet damage at the way it should be. For 2524 magic you can cause your pet to deal 53% more damage above enemies 50% health. WHAT KIND OF MESS IS THIS. This is the most confusing morph in the game that is the least practical in video game HISTORY. Basically you only see usefulness of this pet on a target dummy at 6million health. The damage vs Sustain option is so one sided that your all but force to take the twilight heal.
    Who came up with this confusing mess and how much longer before you change it. The pet SHOULD DO DAMAGE OR NOT for 2500 I magic.

    Honestly if your concern is new player's this is the kind of changes that should be made.


    Sssshhhhhh. Its a secret method to end the pet blocking threads.

    If they make the pet useless, everyone will stop using them. Voila. No more complaints about Twilights blocking crafting stations and bankers.

    IMHO

    :#
    Options
Sign In or Register to comment.