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Vote with your wallet, or not?

NoodleESO
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I keep seeing this on the forums but I’d like to point out a flaw here. The only message you send to Zenimax from canceling your sub is that you either 1 you don’t like the over all direction of the game, or 2 you don’t have the money for eso plus.

It will not tell them directly how you feel about game performance or your opinion on a certain dev team. So unfortunately all parts of the game will suffer if we go down this route and that’s something people should keep in mind.

Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team, I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.
  • Curious_Death
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    I feel like they knows that they trade veteran players for fresh newbies who will (in their thoughs) spend more $ in game...
    Now theres event on... eso is f2p... i wasting my eso+ coz game is unplayable... i cant breakfree i time... i pinged server... i get 8% packets loss... in cyrodiil... wow there u needs to be oracle to do anything and veteran achievements... nearly impossible... when boss do nothing and after 5 sec u re dead :D coz mechanics triggered but server kept it for itself...

    proove me if i am wrong of ur flawless working game without lags and bugs in PC EU

    peace...
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  • oxygen_thief
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    NoodleESO wrote: »

    Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team,

    why not? team means people work together and share consequences together
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  • Elsonso
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    Spend money on the game. Don't spend money on the game. If enough do the former, there will be ongoing updates, bug fixes, and content releases. If enough do the latter, well... none of that. Up to you.
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
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  • RefLiberty
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    NoodleESO wrote: »

    Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team, I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.

    I don't think we need to point finger at art or dev or sys admins or any of those average Joe hardworking peeps.

    It is and it always will be the management, especially the high ones who are shaping the direction the game will go, the heavy monetisation, more or less investment in infrastructure, more or less investment in bug fixing or development...

    It is all high management, not Devs, not art guys, not system guys, all great hardworking peeps.
    And after FO debacle, I don't put much hope in BT moral values.
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  • zergbase_ESO
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    NoodleESO wrote: »
    I keep seeing this on the forums but I’d like to point out a flaw here. The only message you send to Zenimax from canceling your sub is that you either 1 you don’t like the over all direction of the game, or 2 you don’t have the money for eso plus.

    It will not tell them directly how you feel about game performance or your opinion on a certain dev team. So unfortunately all parts of the game will suffer if we go down this route and that’s something people should keep in mind.

    Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team, I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.

    I think they know how we feel by the constant posts of performance issues flooding the general forum. Lets be honest. Walking into any MMO if you looked at this forum you would know not to sub to it due to performance issues. It is like paying full price for fallout 76 right now in a sense... Wait no luckily we're not at fallout 76 levels of bad.
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  • Thokri
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    Problem is I would say less than tenth of profit, quite likely even lower, goes to devs. Rest goes to useless people in management and rest trash.

    So that there would truly be changes, they need to cut diseased branch out so rest of tree won't die. However it is looking mighty grim on our trees health.
    However in reality this goes very different, they give diseased branch extra nutrients and burn healthy part away.
    Edited by Thokri on April 6, 2020 7:19PM
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  • Royaji
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    Spend money on the game. Don't spend money on the game. If enough do the former, there will be ongoing updates, bug fixes, and content releases. If enough do the latter, well... none of that. Up to you.

    Actually its probably the other way around. Why bother with fixes and quality updates if you are already getting paid? Just re-skin a couple of mounts and add yet another chapter which has less content than the previous one and call it a day. Money are still rolling in.

    On the other hand, come backs in gamedev world have often arisen from situations where devs were trying to save a project that has gone bust. You know, nothing motivates you to make a game more appealing to your player (and not your owner/shareholder) than understanding that with no cashflow from your players you are going to go down very soon.
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  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Withdrawing funds creates a different environment then one where you have nothing to worry about. The real question though is if enough people stop paying.... what happens? Will Zenimax fix the issues or will they lay people off? Will they start a massive ad campaign or close the game down? We don't know and that is troublesome in and of itself.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
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  • Czekoludek
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    NoodleESO wrote: »
    Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team, I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.
    TBH art content from last year wasn't really that great. Same assets used in both chapter and dlc (and even in one dungeon dlc), a lot of laziness (go to LoM and tell me how the view looks like. You can see poor texture quality all around you.
    Overall not much content and worse quality then older dlcs. Last dungeon dlc we got one nice dungeon and one boring and generic, both in look and mechanics. Art team did definitely better job before elsweyr. And lets not start about lazy writing, same old story thropes, reused in different settings. For example they promised us great writing about Sai sahan returning, we got lazy "he just returned and don't know why or how ( one specifica decision from main quest )" bs.
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  • AcadianPaladin
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    NoodleESO wrote: »
    ... I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.

    *blinks* By Azura! If this forum were any more vocal in its dissatisfaction I think it would explode!

    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
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  • Waseem
    Waseem
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    NoodleESO wrote: »
    I keep seeing this on the forums but I’d like to point out a flaw here. The only message you send to Zenimax from canceling your sub is that you either 1 you don’t like the over all direction of the game, or 2 you don’t have the money for eso plus.

    It will not tell them directly how you feel about game performance or your opinion on a certain dev team. So unfortunately all parts of the game will suffer if we go down this route and that’s something people should keep in mind.

    Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team, I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.

    I think your opinion is obviously misleading. Damn right Zenimax has enough money and made enough money over the years to invest back in the game to make it a playable and enjoyable expierence for all players, but they stick with marketing crown store and expansions and it's in a deteriorating situation since 5 years.

    As long as players spend money on this game, it translates as they are happy in it's current state. that's why boycotting crown store works. when players dont spent money on the game, Zenimax will do 2 things which are both best for the players
    1) fix the game
    2) shut down the game
    In both situations players will win, they will either play a playable game
    or move on to another playable game.
    PC EU

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  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    NoodleESO wrote: »
    I keep seeing this on the forums but I’d like to point out a flaw here. The only message you send to Zenimax from canceling your sub is that you either 1 you don’t like the over all direction of the game, or 2 you don’t have the money for eso plus.

    It will not tell them directly how you feel about game performance or your opinion on a certain dev team. So unfortunately all parts of the game will suffer if we go down this route and that’s something people should keep in mind.

    Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team, I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.

    I think they know how we feel by the constant posts of performance issues flooding the general forum. Lets be honest. Walking into any MMO if you looked at this forum you would know not to sub to it due to performance issues. It is like paying full price for fallout 76 right now in a sense... Wait no luckily we're not at fallout 76 levels of bad.

    Bear in mind how few people there are - comparatively - complaining on the forum, it's the same style of players - the Cyrodiilians and Trialists who make up a small minority of the playerbase but a disproportionate percentage of the forum regulars. Then check the Steam charts which show an all-time peak of players almost half again on the previous biggest ever peak figure. ZOS certainly know how the players feel, they can see that from the number who are playing the game.
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  • InaMoonlight
    InaMoonlight
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    Already voted with mine, even as skimpy as it has at times has been. I want this game to LIVE. Stop playing, demand ftp, they will NOT be able to fix, upgrade servers, nor provide content (and if you don't like a growing game you're in the wrong one - just leave!).

    Sorry not to agree, but I actually feel heard on ALOT of stuff. I don't expect this game to be a one-time-gig, perfect but never growing or evolving. I'll have the lags,and growing pains, knowing it won't be forever, and they're working as efficiently as they can given workload and visions. All for that.

    I'll pay. With a happy grin at being "home"!.
    Edited by InaMoonlight on April 6, 2020 10:07PM
    Edit = Typos ... as usual. <;D
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  • Czekoludek
    Czekoludek
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    Tandor wrote: »
    NoodleESO wrote: »
    I keep seeing this on the forums but I’d like to point out a flaw here. The only message you send to Zenimax from canceling your sub is that you either 1 you don’t like the over all direction of the game, or 2 you don’t have the money for eso plus.

    It will not tell them directly how you feel about game performance or your opinion on a certain dev team. So unfortunately all parts of the game will suffer if we go down this route and that’s something people should keep in mind.

    Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team, I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.

    I think they know how we feel by the constant posts of performance issues flooding the general forum. Lets be honest. Walking into any MMO if you looked at this forum you would know not to sub to it due to performance issues. It is like paying full price for fallout 76 right now in a sense... Wait no luckily we're not at fallout 76 levels of bad.

    Bear in mind how few people there are - comparatively - complaining on the forum, it's the same style of players - the Cyrodiilians and Trialists who make up a small minority of the playerbase but a disproportionate percentage of the forum regulars. Then check the Steam charts which show an all-time peak of players almost half again on the previous biggest ever peak figure. ZOS certainly know how the players feel, they can see that from the number who are playing the game.

    Agreed but for example, when they announce Greymoor on twitch, stream was seen by a lot less ppl then the announcement of Elsweyr or even Summerset if I remember correctly. And we got the highiest pick while eso have free week during coronavirus outbreak when most ppl stay at home.
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  • Elsonso
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    Waseem wrote: »
    As long as players spend money on this game, it translates as they are happy in it's current state. that's why boycotting crown store works. when players dont spent money on the game, Zenimax will do 2 things which are both best for the players
    1) fix the game
    2) shut down the game
    In both situations players will win, they will either play a playable game
    or move on to another playable game.

    You do realize that there is a third option? You can move onto another game, one which you consider to be more playable, and not worry about what other players are doing with ESO. Am I right?

    If you are unhappy and think that things suck, the only reason to stick around is if you think things are going to get better. If you stick around, pay, or don't pay, but you have already voted that ZOS is going to make things better.

    That's my opinion, at least.
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
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  • Sylvermynx
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    Waseem wrote: »

    As long as players spend money on this game, it translates as they are happy in it's current state. that's why boycotting crown store works. when players dont spent money on the game, Zenimax will do 2 things which are both best for the players
    1) fix the game
    2) shut down the game
    In both situations players will win, they will either play a playable game
    or move on to another playable game.

    I spend money because I AM happy with the game in it's current state - for me it's totally playable on both PC megaservers which means for me EU primetime when I'm playing there, but I don't play in prime time on NA, since I only play between 7 am and 4 pm (appx) US MT.

    I don't do pvp or group content; I detest pvp, and it's too hard on a group to have someone in group whose only connection is satellite (horribly high ping - though HughesNet is magnitudes better than WildBlue was!)

    So, yep - I'm sorry that many of you find the game unplayable, but I don't, and while I hope your gameplay gets fixed, I'm not interested in not having my ESO+ and crowns "in solidarity". Sorry, ain't hap'nin'.

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  • idk
    idk
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    Whoever develops the art in this game does benefit or not based on the overall direction the management at Zos brings this game. Each and every one of us reaps the rewards or suffer the consequences of how well our employers manage the business (overall).

    So yes, if someone is dissatisfied with the game enough to quit they should. If they do not enjoy it they need to go and spend money on a product they do enjoy. Though OP is correct it is not something that will show up as significant as it seems the player base here is pretty solid.

    Of course, creating threads talking about quitting or ceasing one's ESO+ is pointless.
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  • NoodleESO
    NoodleESO
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    Interesting opinions here, I want what everyone else wants but I brought the topic up because their might be a more effective way to get the point across to zenimax.

    What that is I don’t know.
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  • Hanokihs
    Hanokihs
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    The real flaw in "vote with your wallet" thinking is that for the individual, it's sending a significant message. But more often than not, for the company they're attempting to stick it to, that individual's value is just a single raindrop in a downpour.

    ESO is too big at this point for anyone to bother with this tactic. There will always be more players and more open wallets. Until Elder Scrolls 6 comes out, I guarantee nobody behind the scenes is much concerned with people quitting - and even then, it'll depend on how hard the hype train for THAT game does or doesn't crash.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
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  • Abyssmol
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Withdrawing funds creates a different environment then one where you have nothing to worry about. The real question though is if enough people stop paying.... what happens? Will Zenimax fix the issues or will they lay people off? Will they start a massive ad campaign or close the game down? We don't know and that is troublesome in and of itself.

    ZOS has a gold mine on their hands, and this game could be profitable for many many more years with good performance. But the way it is now, it doesn't matter if it gets close. Players (PVP or PVE) should not be expected to spend money on a broken game. Specially when the developer has tried and failed to fix it
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  • coletas
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    Art is red2. ESO remebers me more something like duke nukem XD about the question... No. I wont put any $ more in the game. I dont buy anything since morrowind, when It began to be completely unplayable. You pay but you dont get a playable game or some tech support or some communication. And later they gift you a pet. Damn. I dont do pve and i never bought a pet and I have like 21 pets. Fix the game and stop pet development PLEASE XDDDD
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  • InaMoonlight
    InaMoonlight
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    coletas wrote: »
    Art is red2. ESO remebers me more something like duke nukem XD about the question... No. I wont put any $ more in the game. I dont buy anything since morrowind, when It began to be completely unplayable. You pay but you dont get a playable game or some tech support or some communication. And later they gift you a pet. Damn. I dont do pve and i never bought a pet and I have like 21 pets. Fix the game and stop pet development PLEASE XDDDD

    'Cause they'll be able to develop or fix with no money...
    Edit = Typos ... as usual. <;D
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  • Royaji
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    coletas wrote: »
    Art is red2. ESO remebers me more something like duke nukem XD about the question... No. I wont put any $ more in the game. I dont buy anything since morrowind, when It began to be completely unplayable. You pay but you dont get a playable game or some tech support or some communication. And later they gift you a pet. Damn. I dont do pve and i never bought a pet and I have like 21 pets. Fix the game and stop pet development PLEASE XDDDD

    'Cause they'll be able to develop or fix with no money...

    I haven't seen their books or anything but I don't believe for a second that Zenimax Online Studios is struggling financially.

    It's just that all the money they make somehow struggles to find its way to ESO development costs category.
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  • Curious_Death
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    going to sleep, but b4! Check this cherry:)
    Yct0uTU.jpg

    i was chasing enemy... jumped after him ... then i couldnt use any skill... server roll back me to ... the moment i was doing 1st step to fall... ofc... i got killed. WELL DONE :)#perfromancefix
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  • FakeFox
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    NoodleESO wrote: »
    It will not tell them directly how you feel about game performance or your opinion on a certain dev team.

    I'm sure they can figure it out, otherwise they have serious issues in their analytics department.
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
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  • tului78
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    Thokri wrote: »
    Problem is I would say less than tenth of profit, quite likely even lower, goes to devs. Rest goes to useless people in management and rest trash.

    So that there would truly be changes, they need to cut diseased branch out so rest of tree won't die. However it is looking mighty grim on our trees health.
    However in reality this goes very different, they give diseased branch extra nutrients and burn healthy part away.

    A lot of it probably goes to people who have invested money and demand a certain return. Possibly equally as cancerous in terms of screwing the direction of the game from a players perspective though.
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  • Malmai
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    Doesnt matter there are people who buy 20k crown packs every month they will just cover you and 5 people with you + all eso+. Fanbois are Fanbois...
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  • newtinmpls
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    I don't buy crates.

    So ZoS has years of experience of me not buying crates.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
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  • Lysette
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    Czekoludek wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    NoodleESO wrote: »
    I keep seeing this on the forums but I’d like to point out a flaw here. The only message you send to Zenimax from canceling your sub is that you either 1 you don’t like the over all direction of the game, or 2 you don’t have the money for eso plus.

    It will not tell them directly how you feel about game performance or your opinion on a certain dev team. So unfortunately all parts of the game will suffer if we go down this route and that’s something people should keep in mind.

    Whoever is in charge of the art in this game should not have to suffer from the poor changes of another dev team, I believe being more vocal about dissatisfaction is the true answer here.

    I think they know how we feel by the constant posts of performance issues flooding the general forum. Lets be honest. Walking into any MMO if you looked at this forum you would know not to sub to it due to performance issues. It is like paying full price for fallout 76 right now in a sense... Wait no luckily we're not at fallout 76 levels of bad.

    Bear in mind how few people there are - comparatively - complaining on the forum, it's the same style of players - the Cyrodiilians and Trialists who make up a small minority of the playerbase but a disproportionate percentage of the forum regulars. Then check the Steam charts which show an all-time peak of players almost half again on the previous biggest ever peak figure. ZOS certainly know how the players feel, they can see that from the number who are playing the game.

    Agreed but for example, when they announce Greymoor on twitch, stream was seen by a lot less ppl then the announcement of Elsweyr or even Summerset if I remember correctly. And we got the highiest pick while eso have free week during coronavirus outbreak when most ppl stay at home.

    But then again a lot of companies are currently giving away games for free - to ease the pain of staying at home and to promote their brand.
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  • coletas
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    coletas wrote: »
    Art is red2. ESO remebers me more something like duke nukem XD about the question... No. I wont put any $ more in the game. I dont buy anything since morrowind, when It began to be completely unplayable. You pay but you dont get a playable game or some tech support or some communication. And later they gift you a pet. Damn. I dont do pve and i never bought a pet and I have like 21 pets. Fix the game and stop pet development PLEASE XDDDD

    'Cause they'll be able to develop or fix with no money...

    You think the problem is lack of money? Lol
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