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Crafting is unrewarding and feels miscellaneous.

Fajin
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Doesn't it?

I mean, after you reach 160cp there's almost no point in crafting gear. There are rare exceptions in some builds, but most of the meta consists of raid/overland sets. And also motifs now give you styles which you can use without crafting! So this aspect is also completely useless now! That means you level non-consumable crafting skills just for hireling and better improvement chances on gear. (maybe also deconstruction) Not to mention you can level all (not only jewelry crafting, woodworking, blacksmithing and tailoring) crafting professions in just one day!

Now for all other professions.

Alchemy is nice, crafting potions for yourself, but there's like 3 of the viable ones which you can easily buy off of the market.

Cooking is great! You can craft meals which buff you... Except you also can buy them off of auction pretty easily.

Enchanting is nice, glyphs increase sustainability! Just buy them off the auction again.

What I'm saying is crafting is too available and artificial difficulty of being a master crafter (which is getting all 9 traits which are mostly useless anyway. Or maybe not since they added the transmutation table, right) doesn't help it.

There isn't even any roleplaying aspect behind crafting, gear and consumables in general.

For example It's not even logical why an absolute newbie can apply a masterpiece glyph on his equipment! Or how can someone receive a buff from a legendary grade dish in its full extent when he can't understand the full complexity of the dish? And with alchemy how come a simple bystander survive the effects of a powerful potion when they didn't even dabble in the arts of alchemy once?

Potion seller, I require your strongest potions! You can't handle my potions...

Conjointly you can make high level gear less useful for a person who doesn't practice crafts since he has bad understanding of said gear.

With my examples of a "proper" (for my standards) roleplaying logic I don't want to make everyone reach 50 in every craft but just have some experience with it. Say 25 or 30, because as I said what's the point of crafting if everyone is a master?

In conclusion I think the crafting system needs a rework. This is a RPG, I can play as anyone I want, I create my own story, but what's the point of doing so if it isn't as rewarding as other content which is in turn also easier? (remember those traits? They take a year to learn every last one of them)
Make crafting on par with raiding, so real master crafters are relevant again and can make money that way. (there are a lots of ways you can balance this). Introduce limitations which at least require you to try crafting or make crafting meaningful in the game world. Make some other changes because I'm sure if you think about it you can get a lot of new ideas.


So what do you, guys, think about that?

  • tuxon
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    exactly
    Resdayniil kan tarcel
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  • tmbrinks
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    Crafting your own potions is at least 25% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    Crafting your own glyphs, cooking your own food are both about 50% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    You have to be able to upgrade your own gear, since much of it is bound.

    Transmutation to get a better trait on your gear!

    There's quite a bit that crafting does for you still!

    New Moon's Acolyte (a crafted 9-trait set) is among the top sets for DPS this patch.
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  • Dusk_Coven
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    Those are a very limited aspect of crafting in its entirety. Sometimes it's not even about what you can make.
    Some people, for example, simply like being crafters -- getting mats, being able to make their own stuff. Just that can be rewarding in itself. When the mechanics hit a good balance, it makes that gameplay fun.
    When they don't -- such as SWTOR's Onslaught expansion requiring tons of materials and doing a lot of grind to make a lot of stuff that drops like rain in their content... it's unrewarding.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on April 4, 2020 9:29PM
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  • oxygen_thief
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    i cant agree with you. i use crafted sets for pvp as a lot of other players do
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  • Guyle
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    Daily writs boi
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  • Fajin
    Fajin
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Crafting your own potions is at least 25% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    Crafting your own glyphs, cooking your own food are both about 50% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    You have to be able to upgrade your own gear, since much of it is bound.

    Transmutation to get a better trait on your gear!

    There's quite a bit that crafting does for you still!

    New Moon's Acolyte (a crafted 9-trait set) is among the top sets for DPS this patch.
    Guyle wrote: »
    Daily writs boi

    But still it's a miniscule aspect of the game. Writs can give you upgrade mats which to sell right, but you can farm overland sets for good profit. All of those cheaper things are great but If I didn't like crafting in general I wouldn't bother with it. Great point with bound things, I agree. Transmutation I covered in my post. So in general maybe it's just me but this is literally what I talked about, there are benefits but they are minor and used just for min maxing
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  • Sheezabeast
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    I feel rewarded by helping people. Training armor is always needed. Roleplayers need outfits. Staples like Hundings, Julianos, and NMA are still selling like hotcakes. Nirncrux still sells well, as does gold upgrade mats. Make yourself feel rewarded in ways like that.
    Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!
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  • mikikatze
    mikikatze
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    Who do you think crafts all that stuff you're buying in guild stores...?
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  • Fajin
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    mikikatze wrote: »
    Who do you think crafts all that stuff you're buying in guild stores...?

    Idk I craft for myself :P
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  • Taleof2Cities
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    I think you’re forgetting master writs, @Fajin.

    Because that is end game for crafting ... and is reliant upon motif knowledge, trait research , and crafting achievements.

    You don’t do master writs?

    That’s totally fine.

    Just don’t conveniently omit master writs from your argument.
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  • Fajin
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    I think you’re forgetting master writs, @Fajin.

    Because that is end game for crafting ... and is reliant upon motif knowledge, trait research , and crafting achievements.

    You don’t do master writs?

    That’s totally fine.

    Just don’t conveniently omit master writs from your argument.

    Oh right I totally forgot about them. But what do those writs give you except more furniture lel? Oh and i think it gives you recipes for high end XP bottles, doesn't it? Again it's pretty uninteresting if you don't do housing.
    Edited by Fajin on April 4, 2020 10:04PM
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  • Knightpanther
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    I beg to differ, im using 2 crafted sets in PvP, i use food and potions, crafting has an a lot to offer.

    Be Safe
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  • tmbrinks
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    Fajin wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Crafting your own potions is at least 25% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    Crafting your own glyphs, cooking your own food are both about 50% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    You have to be able to upgrade your own gear, since much of it is bound.

    Transmutation to get a better trait on your gear!

    There's quite a bit that crafting does for you still!

    New Moon's Acolyte (a crafted 9-trait set) is among the top sets for DPS this patch.
    Guyle wrote: »
    Daily writs boi

    But still it's a miniscule aspect of the game. Writs can give you upgrade mats which to sell right, but you can farm overland sets for good profit. All of those cheaper things are great but If I didn't like crafting in general I wouldn't bother with it. Great point with bound things, I agree. Transmutation I covered in my post. So in general maybe it's just me but this is literally what I talked about, there are benefits but they are minor and used just for min maxing

    There are so many "aspects" to the game, that most of them are fairly small. Okay, so crafting is more niche than the others, but that's not a bad thing.

    I've made hundreds of millions in gold from crafting alone. It allows me to avoid some of the tedious farming for certain things that I don't enjoy. To each their own.
    Edited by tmbrinks on April 5, 2020 12:39AM
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  • Sanctum74
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    Totally disagree, after 5 years I’m still crafting gear with sets like New Moon, Clever alchemist, shacklebreaker, etc. Making training gear for new toons, upgrading sets to gold, changing traits, helping new players, and daily writs which is one of the most profitable activities in the game compared to the grind of farming gear to sell.
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  • Shantu
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Totally disagree, after 5 years I’m still crafting gear with sets like New Moon, Clever alchemist, shacklebreaker, etc. Making training gear for new toons, upgrading sets to gold, changing traits, helping new players, and daily writs which is one of the most profitable activities in the game compared to the grind of farming gear to sell.

    I agree. I have seven 9 trait crafters. Between daily writs, master writs, surveys, improving gear, transmuting, hirelings, and crafting gear to sell, I find it far from unrewarding. Hell, I make about a million gold a month just on daily writs alone. If you find in unrewarding, then fine. But for a little effort and time it brings quite a bit of convenience and profit to the game.
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  • AcadianPaladin
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    I'm happy enough with crafting overall. My biggest complaint is that, overall, the list of 'good' crafted gear sets is shorter than I'd like. Particularly for healers.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
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  • Dolgubon
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    Fajin wrote: »
    I think you’re forgetting master writs, @Fajin.

    Because that is end game for crafting ... and is reliant upon motif knowledge, trait research , and crafting achievements.

    You don’t do master writs?

    That’s totally fine.

    Just don’t conveniently omit master writs from your argument.

    Oh right I totally forgot about them. But what do those writs give you except more furniture lel? Oh and i think it gives you recipes for high end XP bottles, doesn't it? Again it's pretty uninteresting if you don't do housing.

    Simply because you think it's uninteresting doesn't actually mean it's not any good. I don't care for PvP and battle grounds, doesn't mean it needs a rework.

    And anyway, even if you do find it uninteresting, you can get a lot of gold from selling those furniture and recipes.

    Btw, you can also get target dummies, attunable crafting stations, extra storage, more motifs, your own transmute station (only way if you don't have CWC) Even if you don't care for housing at all, those are very useful things to have in a house somewhere.
    Relthion: CP810 DK Tank - vMOL HM, vHOF HM, vAS HM, vCR +2
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    Addons:
    Dolgubon's Lazy Writ Crafter
    Dolgubon's Lazy Set Crafter
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  • tmbrinks
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    Dolgubon wrote: »
    Fajin wrote: »
    I think you’re forgetting master writs, @Fajin.

    Because that is end game for crafting ... and is reliant upon motif knowledge, trait research , and crafting achievements.

    You don’t do master writs?

    That’s totally fine.

    Just don’t conveniently omit master writs from your argument.

    Oh right I totally forgot about them. But what do those writs give you except more furniture lel? Oh and i think it gives you recipes for high end XP bottles, doesn't it? Again it's pretty uninteresting if you don't do housing.

    Simply because you think it's uninteresting doesn't actually mean it's not any good. I don't care for PvP and battle grounds, doesn't mean it needs a rework.

    And anyway, even if you do find it uninteresting, you can get a lot of gold from selling those furniture and recipes.

    Btw, you can also get target dummies, attunable crafting stations, extra storage, more motifs, your own transmute station (only way if you don't have CWC) Even if you don't care for housing at all, those are very useful things to have in a house somewhere.

    and thanks to your add-on... I have all of those in my own house :joy:
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    The Unchained - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
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  • Mindcr0w
    Mindcr0w
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    Honestly one of the things ESO gets right that a lot of other MMO's that feature both dropped and crafted gear fail at is how relevant both have remained.
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  • Kiralyn2000
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    Fajin wrote: »
    Doesn't it?

    I mean, after you reach 160cp there's almost no point in crafting gear. There are rare exceptions in some builds, but most of the meta consists of raid/overland sets.

    Not everyone does/can equip dungeon/trial meta. There's plenty of people wearing crafted. (but I suppose anyone who's not a 'geared' endgame player doesn't count.)
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  • tmbrinks
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    Fajin wrote: »
    Doesn't it?

    I mean, after you reach 160cp there's almost no point in crafting gear. There are rare exceptions in some builds, but most of the meta consists of raid/overland sets.

    Not everyone does/can equip dungeon/trial meta. There's plenty of people wearing crafted. (but I suppose anyone who's not a 'geared' endgame player doesn't count.)

    There's plenty of "endgame players" wearing crafted too... New Moon's Acolyte is very, very strong!
    Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    The Unchained - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
    61,405 achievement points
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  • Bradyfjord
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    The OP wonderfully describes a vibrant economy. It's wonderful to play in an online game that gives you choices.

    I use crafting when I find a piece of gear that I like, and I want to gold it out. Or sometimes I need to change enchants for a specific reason.

    When I have enough sustain, I push my damage stat. If I start to lose sustain, I switch back. It really depends on the patch with that. Crafting makes this much much easier to do.

    It has uses, but if you don't want to invest the time, I'm sure someone would love to craft something for your gold.
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  • SeaGtGruff
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Crafting your own potions is at least 25% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    Crafting your own glyphs, cooking your own food are both about 50% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    You have to be able to upgrade your own gear, since much of it is bound.

    Transmutation to get a better trait on your gear!

    There's quite a bit that crafting does for you still!

    New Moon's Acolyte (a crafted 9-trait set) is among the top sets for DPS this patch.

    If you farm your own mats, then crafting your own potions, poisons, glyphs, food, and drinks is usually 100% cheaper than buying them at the guild traders. The exception would be if you need to shop for some ingredient that you've run out of, or that is really difficult to farm because of its very low drop rate or because it only drops from some source or activity that's beyond your current skill level. And this Anniversary Jubilee is a good opportunity to try to stock up on rare ingredients and mats that you can hopefully find in some of your reward boxes.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
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  • bmnoble
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    Fajin wrote: »
    Doesn't it?

    I mean, after you reach 160cp there's almost no point in crafting gear. There are rare exceptions in some builds, but most of the meta consists of raid/overland sets. And also motifs now give you styles which you can use without crafting! So this aspect is also completely useless now! That means you level non-consumable crafting skills just for hireling and better improvement chances on gear. (maybe also deconstruction) Not to mention you can level all (not only jewelry crafting, woodworking, blacksmithing and tailoring) crafting professions in just one day!

    Now for all other professions.

    Alchemy is nice, crafting potions for yourself, but there's like 3 of the viable ones which you can easily buy off of the market.

    Cooking is great! You can craft meals which buff you... Except you also can buy them off of auction pretty easily.

    Enchanting is nice, glyphs increase sustainability! Just buy them off the auction again.

    What I'm saying is crafting is too available and artificial difficulty of being a master crafter (which is getting all 9 traits which are mostly useless anyway. Or maybe not since they added the transmutation table, right) doesn't help it.

    There isn't even any roleplaying aspect behind crafting, gear and consumables in general.

    For example It's not even logical why an absolute newbie can apply a masterpiece glyph on his equipment! Or how can someone receive a buff from a legendary grade dish in its full extent when he can't understand the full complexity of the dish? And with alchemy how come a simple bystander survive the effects of a powerful potion when they didn't even dabble in the arts of alchemy once?

    Potion seller, I require your strongest potions! You can't handle my potions...

    Conjointly you can make high level gear less useful for a person who doesn't practice crafts since he has bad understanding of said gear.

    With my examples of a "proper" (for my standards) roleplaying logic I don't want to make everyone reach 50 in every craft but just have some experience with it. Say 25 or 30, because as I said what's the point of crafting if everyone is a master?

    In conclusion I think the crafting system needs a rework. This is a RPG, I can play as anyone I want, I create my own story, but what's the point of doing so if it isn't as rewarding as other content which is in turn also easier? (remember those traits? They take a year to learn every last one of them)
    Make crafting on par with raiding, so real master crafters are relevant again and can make money that way. (there are a lots of ways you can balance this). Introduce limitations which at least require you to try crafting or make crafting meaningful in the game world. Make some other changes because I'm sure if you think about it you can get a lot of new ideas.


    So what do you, guys, think about that?


    I actually really like the crafting in this game, hell of a lot more enjoyable than the crafting in SWTOR.

    I can't think of another game I have played where I have made as much use of my crafting skills as ESO, I make my own potions, poisons, glyphs, food and drink, gear all quite often for my self and others in my guilds even randoms that have taken the chance to find out if I was a crafter after noticing the high level motif my outfits use.

    I see no need what so ever in adding a role play element to the crafting, the closest I have ever gotten to that is when a new player with no idea about the crafted sets wants training gear and leaves it up to me as the crafter to pick what to give them.

    90% of the time however people know what they want and they give you a detailed order with either all the mats needed or a large tip usually if they don't have a craft bag, followed by either mailing the items or direct trading them to the player that ordered the stuff.

    As for the bit about newbies using potions/food/drink etc.. and getting reduced buffs for no understanding them etc.. that already exists for players that have not leveled the crafts and gotten access to the relevant passives.

    Even the bit about not being able to make the most out of the high level gear that already exists with the skill cap, you can put a new player in the best gear available, it does not suddenly make them the best player in the game.

    As for META gear, I know plenty of players that don't touch trial/arena/dungeon sets at all due to hating the farming aspect and they use overland and crafted gear instead.

    As for this "you can level the crafts in a day" Sure I can NOW since I have a mountain of mats in my craft bag and a large pile of coin in my inventory, no player starts out like that, I used thieving at first to earn the capital needed to buy what I needed to level my crafting and pay my weekly trade guild mins, all my profits for months went towards leveling crafting on all my alts, took the better part of a year to get the first 15 up to the point where they could do max level writs for all 7 crafts.

    The only reason I could level the crafts on my 3 Necromancers quickly was due to the amount of mats I had built up over time and the amount of gold I was making from my sales in 5 trade guilds.

    I know players who have taken months to level jewelry crafting and every now and then in guild chat you see some celebrating that they have finished learning all the crafts or learning all the traits because for people starting out that is an achievement that is lost on us long term players who have anywhere from 18 - 36 maxed out crafters doing writs.


    The crafting in this game is one of the most accessible parts of the game, adding stupid limitations for no reason is in my opinion a stupid idea, I can't say it any nicer than that.

    The game is in its 6th year, there are a lot of "real master crafters" The reason why they are not as relevant is because eventually many long term players get around to making a master crafter, its only new players and those that have no interest in crafting that seek out master crafters.
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  • MurderMostFoul
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    I do tons of crafting.

    I have all six classes leveled with stamina PvP builds. All of them wear at least one set I crafted, and some of them wear two.

    I upgrade and transmute sets I find, and I craft all the potions, enchanting and provisioning items I use.

    I do daily crafting writs.

    I'm fine with the crafting system.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
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  • mustangmorgan31
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Dolgubon wrote: »
    Fajin wrote: »
    I think you’re forgetting master writs, @Fajin.

    Because that is end game for crafting ... and is reliant upon motif knowledge, trait research , and crafting achievements.

    You don’t do master writs?

    That’s totally fine.

    Just don’t conveniently omit master writs from your argument.

    Oh right I totally forgot about them. But what do those writs give you except more furniture lel? Oh and i think it gives you recipes for high end XP bottles, doesn't it? Again it's pretty uninteresting if you don't do housing.

    Simply because you think it's uninteresting doesn't actually mean it's not any good. I don't care for PvP and battle grounds, doesn't mean it needs a rework.

    And anyway, even if you do find it uninteresting, you can get a lot of gold from selling those furniture and recipes.

    Btw, you can also get target dummies, attunable crafting stations, extra storage, more motifs, your own transmute station (only way if you don't have CWC) Even if you don't care for housing at all, those are very useful things to have in a house somewhere.

    and thanks to your add-on... I have all of those in my own house :joy:

    Brinksy I go to your house to do all my master writs lol
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  • tmbrinks
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    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Crafting your own potions is at least 25% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    Crafting your own glyphs, cooking your own food are both about 50% cheaper than buying them on the market.

    You have to be able to upgrade your own gear, since much of it is bound.

    Transmutation to get a better trait on your gear!

    There's quite a bit that crafting does for you still!

    New Moon's Acolyte (a crafted 9-trait set) is among the top sets for DPS this patch.

    If you farm your own mats, then crafting your own potions, poisons, glyphs, food, and drinks is usually 100% cheaper than buying them at the guild traders. The exception would be if you need to shop for some ingredient that you've run out of, or that is really difficult to farm because of its very low drop rate or because it only drops from some source or activity that's beyond your current skill level. And this Anniversary Jubilee is a good opportunity to try to stock up on rare ingredients and mats that you can hopefully find in some of your reward boxes.

    There's still a value in time. Perhaps it can't be quantified in the quite the same way, but it's there.
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  • Ri_Khan
    Ri_Khan
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    I don't think crafting is unrewarding at all but there are certain aspects of it that don't seem to be very well balanced in conjunction with the player economy, jewelry crafting especially. The other day I was putting a set of Necropotence together for a friend and I happened to have blue jewelry for the set. He's not a crafter so I figured I'd be a boss and upgrade it to epic for him. I have plenty of zircon but I checked prices for everything first anyway. If I had to purchase them, it would've cost me at least 225,000 gold for 9 plates to upgrade. I then discovered that I could just buy the three pieces of jewelry that were already purple for 36,000. 🤨 Something just didn't sit right with me about this.
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  • bearbelly
    bearbelly
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    The things you suggest buying from the guild traders?
    Most of what is available was crafted by a crafter. Someone is making bank from what you buy.

    Among the other things in which you don't appear to place much importance (which is fine, but those feelings aren't objective or universal), crafting can also be a source of gold.
    Granted, there's a time investment involved (farming for mats, leveling the crafting skills), but enough people find all of that to be a worthy investment. There have to be people like that in order for you to be able to purchase what you seek instead of making it yourself.

    And that is one of the biggest draws for me. I much prefer to have the ability to do something myself instead of being forced to rely on other people to do it for me.
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  • RD065
    RD065
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    Its easiest way for me to get gear. Too much grinding to get overland gear, I don't do dungeons. Potions for food and drink are easy and cheaper to make and rewarding doing them yourself. The guild prices are way out out there on much stuff. At least what I see and since I don't belong to a guild to sell stuff I don't have millions to spare.

    I saw someone on chat the other day trying to sell a flower for $1,000. Just one flower. Lol. Corn flower I believe it was.
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