Abysmal Decline in Skill Line Development

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I acctially prefered necrmancer than psijic
Not a stupid grind to level up
Funnier to use
The elemental weapon animation and sound effect look stupid
So for me elsweyr was a step up from summerset

And if my characters dont get a new skill line to play with its not that bad if what they give us is fun
My 3 necro are fun for me, more than psijiic


For antiquities we didnt see/play the final build so we cant form a definitive opinion but psijiic will be easy to beat, time will tell

Kingslayer513

Noxavian wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Vampires and Werewolves are going to be a heavy theme of the new chapter. So they have been working on them as well.
So we will likely see a new werewolf experience alongside the new vampire experience. So Just because they didn't invest in a new combat skill line doesn't mean anything as Werewolves and Vampires are receiving much needed attention.

That would be enough for a paid Chapter if the uninfected were getting the same attention through a Dawnguard or similar uninfected guild line, but with no such thing in sight this year looks uninspired, and uninspiring. History (Dragonguard) gives us no reason to expect such a development, so for now it looks like Dark Heart is following the same underwhelming trajectory. I'd love to be proven wrong.

This game desperately needs a mortals-only skill line.

Doesn't have to be Dawnguard, but something like it would be really nice. It'd feature sun magic and crossbows, plus some armor sets that help when fighting vampries/werewolves.

Maybe pointing out the obvious here, but that has way too much overlap with the fighter's guild. The fighter's guild is all about using crossbows, silver, traps, etc to hunt vampires, werewolves, and daedra (dealing increased damage to them). Sure it's not mortals only, but who is to say that a vampire can't join the mortals to hunt its own kind?

I think having one dedicated guild + skill line for fighting vampires/werewolves/daedra is more than enough.

YandereGirlfriend

Re: Chapters and Skill Lines

Yes, it is disappointing not to have any meaningful new gameplay options on the horizon for an entire year. Narrow-minded sniping about "player expectations" is beside the point. Rather, ask yourself: "Will I have any interesting new options to change up my build(s) after this Chapter arrives? If the answer is "no" then clearly an opportunity was missed.

All-passive "Skill Lines" do not count toward enabling new builds or playstyles, they are just filler because there was not sufficient development resources to design, implement, and balance active skills.

Re: Humans-only Guild Line

This is desperately needed, especially if the new vampires changes make it to Live.

The argument that the Fighters Guild currently fulfills this role is ridiculous. That entire line has only TWO Direct Damage abilities (Silver Bolts, Dawnbreaker) that are buffed by the anti-WW/vampire passive and, even more bizarrely, the Evil Hunter morph literally only benefits Silver Bolts and for an obscene resource cost.

If we cannot have a proper "humans"- (in an expansive sense) only guild line, then the Fighters Guild should be turned over to that function and vamps and werewolves locked out of accessing many of its benefits. After all, in RPGs choices have consequences and choosing to forego being a human should carry some additional gameplay weight. After that, the entire Skill Line should be re-visited with an eye toward monster hunting.

Noxavian

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Re: Chapters and Skill Lines

Yes, it is disappointing not to have any meaningful new gameplay options on the horizon for an entire year. Narrow-minded sniping about "player expectations" is beside the point. Rather, ask yourself: "Will I have any interesting new options to change up my build(s) after this Chapter arrives? If the answer is "no" then clearly an opportunity was missed.

All-passive "Skill Lines" do not count toward enabling new builds or playstyles, they are just filler because there was not sufficient development resources to design, implement, and balance active skills.

Re: Humans-only Guild Line

This is desperately needed, especially if the new vampires changes make it to Live.

The argument that the Fighters Guild currently fulfills this role is ridiculous. That entire line has only TWO Direct Damage abilities (Silver Bolts, Dawnbreaker) that are buffed by the anti-WW/vampire passive and, even more bizarrely, the Evil Hunter morph literally only benefits Silver Bolts and for an obscene resource cost.

If we cannot have a proper "humans"- (in an expansive sense) only guild line, then the Fighters Guild should be turned over to that function and vamps and werewolves locked out of accessing many of its benefits. After all, in RPGs choices have consequences and choosing to forego being a human should carry some additional gameplay weight. After that, the entire Skill Line should be re-visited with an eye toward monster hunting.

I cannot agree more with both points. Truth be told I was really hoping to see a dawnguard skill line added in. We know the Dawnguard exists in some capacity during this era.

The argument that the fighter's guild fulfills this role in it's present state is pretty dumb within itself tbh. Vampires/werewolves should be locked out of a mortals-only skill line. There should be some actual consequence for choosing to be a vampire or werewolf and something to directly help those that want to remain mortals.

Noxavian

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Vampires and Werewolves are going to be a heavy theme of the new chapter. So they have been working on them as well.
So we will likely see a new werewolf experience alongside the new vampire experience. So Just because they didn't invest in a new combat skill line doesn't mean anything as Werewolves and Vampires are receiving much needed attention.

That would be enough for a paid Chapter if the uninfected were getting the same attention through a Dawnguard or similar uninfected guild line, but with no such thing in sight this year looks uninspired, and uninspiring. History (Dragonguard) gives us no reason to expect such a development, so for now it looks like Dark Heart is following the same underwhelming trajectory. I'd love to be proven wrong.

This game desperately needs a mortals-only skill line.

Doesn't have to be Dawnguard, but something like it would be really nice. It'd feature sun magic and crossbows, plus some armor sets that help when fighting vampries/werewolves.

Maybe pointing out the obvious here, but that has way too much overlap with the fighter's guild. The fighter's guild is all about using crossbows, silver, traps, etc to hunt vampires, werewolves, and daedra (dealing increased damage to them). Sure it's not mortals only, but who is to say that a vampire can't join the mortals to hunt its own kind?

I think having one dedicated guild + skill line for fighting vampires/werewolves/daedra is more than enough.

Thus why I suggested they could either rework or simply lock off the Fighter's guild.

And while your 'vampires/werewolves joining the hunters to hunt their own kind' makes sense logically, it gets rid of a chance to have how you play have more of an impact. Players not being able to do fighters guild stuff might be a serious reason why they don't want to be a vampire or werewolf.

It'd be more immersive, too. Mortals need *something* that vampires/werewolves don't.

Though, if you really want to still play with the idea of vampires/werewolves joining a guild that hunts their own kind, then simply lock off the skill line from them and let them still do the guild quest lines. (Let them get the intimidate passive ofc though)

So therefore they've joined the guild and are a member, but can't use the guild's abilities. it doesn't make sense that a vampire/werewolf would wield the power of dawnbreaker.

justaquickword

Beastygrowls wrote: »

It seems that people have personal expectations about games, and then they get personally offended when the game designers don't do what THEY want. The hilarity of this is, the rest of us are perfectly happy with the game. The rest of us don't have expectations of someone else's game (which is where you're getting all turned around I might add)

On a life note, you will find that - in life - it is the very same lesson. Do not have expectations of things out of your control. Enjoy what you have. Enjoy what you are doing. Be grateful that you have the opportunity at all. It can be taken from you in a heartbeat. Life is too short for such grievances.

Have a nice day.

^
[Edited for quote of removed content]

Nomadic_Atmoran

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Vampires and Werewolves are going to be a heavy theme of the new chapter. So they have been working on them as well.
So we will likely see a new werewolf experience alongside the new vampire experience. So Just because they didn't invest in a new combat skill line doesn't mean anything as Werewolves and Vampires are receiving much needed attention.

That would be enough for a paid Chapter if the uninfected were getting the same attention through a Dawnguard or similar uninfected guild line, but with no such thing in sight this year looks uninspired, and uninspiring. History (Dragonguard) gives us no reason to expect such a development, so for now it looks like Dark Heart is following the same underwhelming trajectory. I'd love to be proven wrong.

This game desperately needs a mortals-only skill line.

Doesn't have to be Dawnguard, but something like it would be really nice. It'd feature sun magic and crossbows, plus some armor sets that help when fighting vampries/werewolves.

Thing is the player isn't a mortal. Why would a non mortal benefit from a mortals only skill line?
The Vestige is an immortal being, something a lot like the bee from Secret World Legends that comes back from the dead each time its slain,
The vestige for all intents and purposes is immortal. A daedric vestige with anuic qualities that allows it to return from the grave and reform anywhere near its location that would allow for it.

I think you know what he meant by "mortal". Lets not be pedantic here.

nk125x

My problem with the chapter

1 New Vamp/WW will be base game

2: Not sure about the antiquities, but if that's base game

So what are you getting for buying the chapter - 40 hrs of questing

At least with other chapters you had to buy the chapter to get the skills.....

RaunHunter

Beastygrowls wrote: »

It seems that people have personal expectations about games, and then they get personally offended when the game designers don't do what THEY want. The hilarity of this is, the rest of us are perfectly happy with the game. The rest of us don't have expectations of someone else's game (which is where you're getting all turned around I might add)

On a life note, you will find that - in life - it is the very same lesson. Do not have expectations of things out of your control. Enjoy what you have. Enjoy what you are doing. Be grateful that you have the opportunity at all. It can be taken from you in a heartbeat. Life is too short for such grievances.

Have a nice day.

Yes, how dare we expect a AAA game that we love and support to not turn into a mobile game? Shame on us.

[Edited for quote of removed content]

Gnortranermara

Beastygrowls wrote: »

It seems that people have personal expectations about games, and then they get personally offended when the game designers don't do what THEY want. The hilarity of this is, the rest of us are perfectly happy with the game. The rest of us don't have expectations of someone else's game (which is where you're getting all turned around I might add)

On a life note, you will find that - in life - it is the very same lesson. Do not have expectations of things out of your control. Enjoy what you have. Enjoy what you are doing. Be grateful that you have the opportunity at all. It can be taken from you in a heartbeat. Life is too short for such grievances.

Have a nice day.

Nice advice, but I will continue to expect competent quality control from the companies that I do business with, and let them know when they are dropping the ball and need to invest more resources in a part of the product.

[Edited for quote of removed content]