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Unnatural Movement out of combat ONLY!!!

  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Invisibility is too powerful. Either everyone should have it or no one should have it. Unless Cloak gets nerfed, I support invisbility for all.

    But we should be given a way to sprint with Magicka. >:)

    Eh, I don't know about that. I mean when they gave us the ability to block with magicka that turned into a mess and led to a lot of dead people. I'd be cautious if such a system was ever implemented.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Yamenstein
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    Let's see what changes for PTS
  • Irfind
    Irfind
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Dojohoda wrote: »
    I wonder if a vampire scroll runner will go invisible.

    They won't go invisible since the scroll carrier cannot go invisible already.

    Oh so no relic sprinting in BGs for vamp. ( I dont know about scrolls but in BGs you can drink invisible potions, then the relic drop)

    Vamp: I have the relic got to go fast .... :trollface:

    (spelling)
    Edited by Irfind on March 31, 2020 8:45AM
    PC EU no CP PVP
    EP Irfind - Stam NB Dunmer
    EP Iswind - Mag Warden Dunmer
    EP Ko'runa Silberklaue - Mag Temp Khajiit
    EP Eldrid Hagal - Mag DK Dunmer
    EP Feyne R'is - Stam Sorc Dunmer ...with Bow
    EP Wynn Loraethaine - Mag NB Dunmer
    AD Runare Loraethaine - Stam Sorc Altmer
    AD Skadi Hagal - Stam DK Khajiit
  • Tessitura
    Tessitura
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    I am going to wait and see how it pans out when i get to test it before making any calls on if its broken or not. Running and not casting is a good way to get *** up in pvp. Not to mention I don't know if dot damage will knock you out of stealth or not..... Most stam builds will just dodge roll instead as its a better way to escape then sprinting for however many seconds this will end up being on live. It seems very gimmicky to me... To be honest, its a cool idea but I think it would have been better if it just change dodge rolling into some magicka variant for mage dudes. A mini bat teleport or something.
  • technohic
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    Seems like a buff to stam in PvP. Okay, so what’s the problem?

    My magplar is able to sprint easier than my stam characters. Light armor has reduced sprint cost. And doesnt matter if its 8 seconds. Break free CC immunity can be followed by a potion and good luck even without those up with any LOS around.

    And I'm sure the point is for it to work in combat. Otherwise youd hyst crouch.
  • red_emu
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    If ZOS really wants to troll and ensure Tank Stam Meta in PvP is set in stone, the passive should also add: Free Block Cost, Phys and Spell Resist up by 10k, Automatically applies a Jester Costume/Wedding Dress and makes your character bunny hop when in sight of other players.

    #BuffStamplarDKDen through the roof!
    PC - EU:
    Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
    Falathren - AD StamSorc
    Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
    Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
    Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
    Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
    Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
  • Stibbons
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    EVERY stamina class needs balancing! Not the vampire skill.
  • olsborg
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    20% cost increase on everything else is ....ouch

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Epicasballs
    Epicasballs
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    Sprint for 8 seconds to go invis when dots last 10-14 secs. You'd have to purge all dots, limited classes have purge, hope no one reapplies dots, or PoTL, or Curse and then sprint away.... how anyone thinks this passive is OP is beyond me. It's a cool flavor passive but it's trash in combat. Utter trash.
  • ZOS_FalcoYamaoka
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    Staff Post
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Sprint for 8 seconds to go invis when dots last 10-14 secs. You'd have to purge all dots, limited classes have purge, hope no one reapplies dots, or PoTL, or Curse and then sprint away.... how anyone thinks this passive is OP is beyond me. It's a cool flavor passive but it's trash in combat. Utter trash.

    This statement is not at all based on the reality of combat. This is not the case at all.
    That passive will be crazy.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Epicasballs
    Epicasballs
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Sprint for 8 seconds to go invis when dots last 10-14 secs. You'd have to purge all dots, limited classes have purge, hope no one reapplies dots, or PoTL, or Curse and then sprint away.... how anyone thinks this passive is OP is beyond me. It's a cool flavor passive but it's trash in combat. Utter trash.

    This statement is not at all based on the reality of combat. This is not the case at all.
    That passive will be crazy.

    If you're sprinting in combat it's to gain space, rebuff, kite and split a group up if you can. Tht whole time you're being dor'd up, cursed, people are spamming AoEs. Cloak is horrible when a ton of people are on piling on you. How exactly is a worse version of cloak OP? The 1 in 50 times a guy escapes an out numbered fight with this passive just move on. Go Xv1 someone else.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Sprint for 8 seconds to go invis when dots last 10-14 secs. You'd have to purge all dots, limited classes have purge, hope no one reapplies dots, or PoTL, or Curse and then sprint away.... how anyone thinks this passive is OP is beyond me. It's a cool flavor passive but it's trash in combat. Utter trash.

    This statement is not at all based on the reality of combat. This is not the case at all.
    That passive will be crazy.

    If you're sprinting in combat it's to gain space, rebuff, kite and split a group up if you can. Tht whole time you're being dor'd up, cursed, people are spamming AoEs. Cloak is horrible when a ton of people are on piling on you. How exactly is a worse version of cloak OP? The 1 in 50 times a guy escapes an out numbered fight with this passive just move on. Go Xv1 someone else.

    In cloak you can not sprint. So this is not at all an in every way worse version of cloak. An Orc player will escape everyone with this, especially with the currently charge up of a mere 3 seconds before the invisibility activates. Just pop major expedition on any class and off you go. Run around an object like everyone loves to do and goodbye goodbye.

    There are always situations where escapes aren't promised. But I know alot of people, including myself, who will be gone with this in an instant.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Thoragaal
    Thoragaal
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    hesobad wrote: »
    ZOS please make this passive only make the player sprinting go invisible while OUT OF COMBAT ONLY! Not only is thus 1 passive going to make Vamp required for open world Cyrodill, but it is such a huge buff to stamina classes in PvP which already dominate over most if not all magic classes being able to obtain much higher burst, survivability and healing. If this passives allows a character to go invis off sprinting while in combat, EVERY stamina class in the game will run vampire and be able to escape and get away from anything. Imagine a back bar bow with shuffle. Just hit shuffle, roll dodge for major expedition and sprint until you go invis! This will be so insanely broken its unbelievable! People complain about the high time to kill already, imagine if this goes into the game... If its changed to only work while out of combat I'm on board with it. Just note that it's a passive invis that doesn't require bar space allocation and or potion use obviously. Also with the other vamp passives, sprint will almost have no cost at all once you add in orc sprint reduction passives, well-fitted and CP passives.. You asked for feedback, and we go on PTS to give feedback! Please make this fix now and not a year later after everyone has complained about it!

    Unnatural Movement needs to only work while out of combat!
    Once the PTS is live this will be updated.

    While I thoroughly enjoy the idea of getting invisible in combat, I don't like the idea of my target running away and getting invisible. However, having it work only while out of combat would make it almost pointless. A warden for example would never be able to use it, because they still have the bug (almost 3 years later) where they're can't really get out of combat.

    Having the ability to only partially making one invisible would be an alternative. However, a partially invisible target is still easy to spot when it's moving, rendering the ability almost useless again.

    I think we all just have to "buckle up" and prepare our Silver Shards/Leash or raise our Inferno Staves and go hunting for vampires. Hopefully the invisibility doesn't work like the NB Cloak; removing DoTs.
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    "I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.
  • BalticBlues
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    I also think that a passive of auto-invisibilty is OP, especially for PVP. Suggestion:
    instead of auto-invisibilty, vamps could get auto-mistform after x secs sprinting.

    75% damage reduction for free while sprinting would still be an extremely strong passive.
    This also would support Stam players who would not need Magicka for Mistform then.
    This also would calm NBs by not getting pissed that their trademark is robbed and a useless Vamp passive for them.

    Edited by BalticBlues on April 1, 2020 11:33AM
  • technohic
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    Mist form change has its own potential issues. In the video, looks like it draings magicka while in use, not on activation and you stay in it as long as you have the magicka.

    [Snip] and sure; people will enjoy this stuff, but didnt bother to think on effect of the overall game health. I mean completely overhauling light and heavy attacks, drastic changes to vampire and werewolf, and alliance change tokens all coming up all at once? While performance is crap? This is going to be a trainwreck...that just exploded and sent a railroad tie flying into an airplane flying over head.

    [Edited for bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on April 1, 2020 2:21PM
  • Epicasballs
    Epicasballs
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sprint for 8 seconds to go invis when dots last 10-14 secs. You'd have to purge all dots, limited classes have purge, hope no one reapplies dots, or PoTL, or Curse and then sprint away.... how anyone thinks this passive is OP is beyond me. It's a cool flavor passive but it's trash in combat. Utter trash.

    This statement is not at all based on the reality of combat. This is not the case at all.
    That passive will be crazy.

    If you're sprinting in combat it's to gain space, rebuff, kite and split a group up if you can. Tht whole time you're being dor'd up, cursed, people are spamming AoEs. Cloak is horrible when a ton of people are on piling on you. How exactly is a worse version of cloak OP? The 1 in 50 times a guy escapes an out numbered fight with this passive just move on. Go Xv1 someone else.

    In cloak you can not sprint. So this is not at all an in every way worse version of cloak. An Orc player will escape everyone with this, especially with the currently charge up of a mere 3 seconds before the invisibility activates. Just pop major expedition on any class and off you go. Run around an object like everyone loves to do and goodbye goodbye.

    There are always situations where escapes aren't promised. But I know alot of people, including myself, who will be gone with this in an instant.

    Cloak suppresses dots. Even then it's not as good as most think for fleeing combat. You need shades for cloak to be truly good. Currently you can kite and pop a pot to go invis to escape combat and no one cares or cries in the forums about that. Why exactly is another tool, arguably the weakest tool yet, for escaping combat OP? I don't see it. If a person wants to disengage go find another fight. You're not owed every kill.
  • jadarock
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sprint for 8 seconds to go invis when dots last 10-14 secs. You'd have to purge all dots, limited classes have purge, hope no one reapplies dots, or PoTL, or Curse and then sprint away.... how anyone thinks this passive is OP is beyond me. It's a cool flavor passive but it's trash in combat. Utter trash.

    This statement is not at all based on the reality of combat. This is not the case at all.
    That passive will be crazy.

    If you're sprinting in combat it's to gain space, rebuff, kite and split a group up if you can. Tht whole time you're being dor'd up, cursed, people are spamming AoEs. Cloak is horrible when a ton of people are on piling on you. How exactly is a worse version of cloak OP? The 1 in 50 times a guy escapes an out numbered fight with this passive just move on. Go Xv1 someone else.

    In cloak you can not sprint. So this is not at all an in every way worse version of cloak. An Orc player will escape everyone with this, especially with the currently charge up of a mere 3 seconds before the invisibility activates. Just pop major expedition on any class and off you go. Run around an object like everyone loves to do and goodbye goodbye.

    There are always situations where escapes aren't promised. But I know alot of people, including myself, who will be gone with this in an instant.

    I concur and was poo pooed for my opinion earlier.
    If people dont think this will super strong for those who are already good at movement and evading then lolz My snipeblade will appreciate the additional escape tool though so good lookin Zos.
    I cant wait to see the forum lit up after people figure out how to abuse it.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sprint for 8 seconds to go invis when dots last 10-14 secs. You'd have to purge all dots, limited classes have purge, hope no one reapplies dots, or PoTL, or Curse and then sprint away.... how anyone thinks this passive is OP is beyond me. It's a cool flavor passive but it's trash in combat. Utter trash.

    This statement is not at all based on the reality of combat. This is not the case at all.
    That passive will be crazy.

    If you're sprinting in combat it's to gain space, rebuff, kite and split a group up if you can. Tht whole time you're being dor'd up, cursed, people are spamming AoEs. Cloak is horrible when a ton of people are on piling on you. How exactly is a worse version of cloak OP? The 1 in 50 times a guy escapes an out numbered fight with this passive just move on. Go Xv1 someone else.

    In cloak you can not sprint. So this is not at all an in every way worse version of cloak. An Orc player will escape everyone with this, especially with the currently charge up of a mere 3 seconds before the invisibility activates. Just pop major expedition on any class and off you go. Run around an object like everyone loves to do and goodbye goodbye.

    There are always situations where escapes aren't promised. But I know alot of people, including myself, who will be gone with this in an instant.

    Cloak suppresses dots. Even then it's not as good as most think for fleeing combat. You need shades for cloak to be truly good. Currently you can kite and pop a pot to go invis to escape combat and no one cares or cries in the forums about that. Why exactly is another tool, arguably the weakest tool yet, for escaping combat OP? I don't see it. If a person wants to disengage go find another fight. You're not owed every kill.

    Because a potion has a long cooldown and you can break that 1 attempt and your enemy is left without invisibility and without an actual useful potion for over 40 seconds. That is why it's fair and balanced.

    But infinite attempts at invisibility without any significant cost or risk? That is absolutely unfair.
    Edited by Dracane on April 2, 2020 1:51PM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Thoragaal
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    Dracane wrote: »

    But infinite attempts at invisibility without any significant cost or risk? That is absolutely unfair.

    I'm not sure vampires care if it's fair or not ;)
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    "I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.
  • jadarock
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    @Dracane
    I wouldn't even say unfair I'd say though that its introducing yet another broken mechanic.
    They dont play their own game to realize how broken this really "could" end up being.
    Edited by jadarock on April 2, 2020 2:05PM
  • Dracane
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    jadarock wrote: »
    @Dracane
    I wouldn't even say unfair I'd say though that its introducing yet another broken mechanic.
    They dont play their own game to realize how broken this really "could" end up being.

    Most players do not have the capability to keep up and reveal an invisible enemy over and over in order to catch them.
    I hope they at least make it so that you must not take damage for 6 seconds or so in order to become invisible.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    Dracane wrote: »
    jadarock wrote: »
    @Dracane
    I wouldn't even say unfair I'd say though that its introducing yet another broken mechanic.
    They dont play their own game to realize how broken this really "could" end up being.

    Most players do not have the capability to keep up and reveal an invisible enemy over and over in order to catch them.
    I hope they at least make it so that you must not take damage for 6 seconds or so in order to become invisible.

    It will be probably like invisible potions.

    If you take damage you instantly get revealed.

    Invisible potions aren't spammed because it's not that strong in game .

    I see that passive a good thing for those hwo don't wanna play "I am a tank with crazy damage meta."
  • Dracane
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    jadarock wrote: »
    @Dracane
    I wouldn't even say unfair I'd say though that its introducing yet another broken mechanic.
    They dont play their own game to realize how broken this really "could" end up being.

    Most players do not have the capability to keep up and reveal an invisible enemy over and over in order to catch them.
    I hope they at least make it so that you must not take damage for 6 seconds or so in order to become invisible.

    It will be probably like invisible potions.

    If you take damage you instantly get revealed.

    Invisible potions aren't spammed because it's not that strong in game .

    I see that passive a good thing for those hwo don't wanna play "I am a tank with crazy damage meta."

    And for how long can you keep this up? The ressource cost to chase them+keeping them revealed every few seconds stands in no relation.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Sahidom
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    I understand why the OP would be asking for non-combat but I would disagree. There will be a lot of broken cheese in Cyrodiil. Anyone escaping via sprint is the least of your worries. You could have an entire ball group sprint with Invisibility for an ulti-drop bum rush. The possibilities are endless in open world Curodiil.

    It should be changed to Stealth instead of Invisibility. This would mean NPC guards would still detect you, along with all current detection options. Whereas, having the skill passive be Invisibility means the player would be able to slip by anything - players included. That's pretty potent in open world Cyrodiil.

    There's also the question whether it will activate just by holding shift for the required seconds to activate Invisibility. You can hold Shift without moving on Cowards Gear and get the 5 pc bonus.
    Edited by Sahidom on April 2, 2020 6:46PM
  • TheFM
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    This would literally make it unusable in cyro. Since everyone is constantly stuck in combat thanks to mega zergs and ball groups.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    Sahidom wrote: »
    I understand why the OP would be asking for non-combat but I would disagree. There will be a lot of broken cheese in Cyrodiil. Anyone escaping via sprint is the least of your worries. You could have an entire ball group sprint with Invisibility for an ulti-drop bum rush. The possibilities are endless in open world Curodiil.

    It should be changed to Stealth instead of Invisibility. This would mean NPC guards would still detect you, along with all current detection options. Whereas, having the skill passive be Invisibility means the player would be able to slip by anything - players included. That's pretty potent in open world Cyrodiil.

    There's also the question whether it will activate just by holding shift for the required seconds to activate Invisibility. You can hold Shift without moving on Cowards Gear and get the 5 pc bonus.

    Stealth while sprinting and only out of combat ? That is an acceptable middle-ground.
    1. It will still be in a vampire theme.
    2. It will still be very powerful (for a passive).
    3. It won't be enabling broken combos as much.
    4. It would not make NB a "totally pointless" class.
  • TheFM
    TheFM
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    Sahidom wrote: »
    I understand why the OP would be asking for non-combat but I would disagree. There will be a lot of broken cheese in Cyrodiil. Anyone escaping via sprint is the least of your worries. You could have an entire ball group sprint with Invisibility for an ulti-drop bum rush. The possibilities are endless in open world Curodiil.

    It should be changed to Stealth instead of Invisibility. This would mean NPC guards would still detect you, along with all current detection options. Whereas, having the skill passive be Invisibility means the player would be able to slip by anything - players included. That's pretty potent in open world Cyrodiil.

    There's also the question whether it will activate just by holding shift for the required seconds to activate Invisibility. You can hold Shift without moving on Cowards Gear and get the 5 pc bonus.

    Stealth while sprinting and only out of combat ? That is an acceptable middle-ground.
    1. It will still be in a vampire theme.
    2. It will still be very powerful (for a passive).
    3. It won't be enabling broken combos as much.
    4. It would not make NB a "totally pointless" class.

    They would need to fix in combat bug if they made it out of combat only, as it stands now you are in combat so often from so many ridiculous things it would be nearly unusable if only out of combat
  • Aedaryl
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    jadarock wrote: »
    @Dracane
    I wouldn't even say unfair I'd say though that its introducing yet another broken mechanic.
    They dont play their own game to realize how broken this really "could" end up being.

    Most players do not have the capability to keep up and reveal an invisible enemy over and over in order to catch them.
    I hope they at least make it so that you must not take damage for 6 seconds or so in order to become invisible.

    It will be probably like invisible potions.

    If you take damage you instantly get revealed.

    Invisible potions aren't spammed because it's not that strong in game .

    I see that passive a good thing for those hwo don't wanna play "I am a tank with crazy damage meta."

    And for how long can you keep this up? The ressource cost to chase them+keeping them revealed every few seconds stands in no relation.

    A simple dot ticking on them is enough
  • technohic
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    jadarock wrote: »
    @Dracane
    I wouldn't even say unfair I'd say though that its introducing yet another broken mechanic.
    They dont play their own game to realize how broken this really "could" end up being.

    Most players do not have the capability to keep up and reveal an invisible enemy over and over in order to catch them.
    I hope they at least make it so that you must not take damage for 6 seconds or so in order to become invisible.

    It will be probably like invisible potions.

    If you take damage you instantly get revealed.

    Invisible potions aren't spammed because it's not that strong in game .

    I see that passive a good thing for those hwo don't wanna play "I am a tank with crazy damage meta."

    And for how long can you keep this up? The ressource cost to chase them+keeping them revealed every few seconds stands in no relation.

    A simple dot ticking on them is enough

    You do realize DOTs dont break invisibility as we know it now; right?
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