Unnatural Movement out of combat ONLY!!!

hesobad

ZOS please make this passive only make the player sprinting go invisible while OUT OF COMBAT ONLY! Not only is thus 1 passive going to make Vamp required for open world Cyrodill, but it is such a huge buff to stamina classes in PvP which already dominate over most if not all magic classes being able to obtain much higher burst, survivability and healing. If this passives allows a character to go invis off sprinting while in combat, EVERY stamina class in the game will run vampire and be able to escape and get away from anything. Imagine a back bar bow with shuffle. Just hit shuffle, roll dodge for major expedition and sprint until you go invis! This will be so insanely broken its unbelievable! People complain about the high time to kill already, imagine if this goes into the game... If its changed to only work while out of combat I'm on board with it. Just note that it's a passive invis that doesn't require bar space allocation and or potion use obviously. Also with the other vamp passives, sprint will almost have no cost at all once you add in orc sprint reduction passives, well-fitted and CP passives.. You asked for feedback, and we go on PTS to give feedback! Please make this fix now and not a year later after everyone has complained about it!

Unnatural Movement needs to only work while out of combat!
Once the PTS is live this will be updated.

x48rph

Honestly, the whole thing looks like a repeat of the WW buff/nerf cycle we had before. They will release it with vampires being stupidly OP, same as when they made the WW changes, and then they will spend the next year or so nerfing it into oblivion so not even the most devoted fan will choose to still be a vamp.

MusCanus

If I will even play this trash of a game pvp at all after the update, it'll be torug's, infused, prismatic onslaught

jadarock

People complain about nb cloak for years
Zos in turn gives it to everyone lol

jadarock

How exactly is this going to work with a scroll runner in Cyrodiil?

Royaji

jadarock wrote: »

How exactly is this going to work with a scroll runner in Cyrodiil?

Same as it works with cloak. Holding a scroll (or a relic in BGs) prevents you from sneaking/going invisible.

Gilvoth

i love it the way it is right now.
please Do Not change it, please do not do what this thread is requesting.

i Love being able to run while in combat and become invisible, it's what makes a rogue a rogue.
"stealth" please keep it as it is.
not being sarcastic
not joking
just honest feedback, and request to KEEP it the way it is.

Tommy_The_Gun

Even out of combat it is still too strong. It is not a skill... it is a freaking passive !

Invisibility has to go. It enables too much. At least as a NB you have to cast it every 2.8 - 2.9 seconds, so it uses your global CD and there is some skill & learning involved. Also, it cost magicka.

With sprint you can make the cost so little that the cost does not even matter.
Here, with this vamp passive ? Just "hold" a button.... wtf....

Basically: "Hold Shift button while moving to become invisible".

Classes that gain the most is pretty much every class other than NB (which btw is already at the bottom of the food chain). But classes that will synergise best is Warden, Necro and Sorc. Do you really want to give them access to invisibility ? The ganking combos you will get will be utter broken. Those classes (unlike NB) are not squishy. The are not designed in stealth - invisible gameplay. They have other means to defend / attack / play effectively.

Perfect analogy or example is: imagine if NB had access to streak for example. Would it be broken ? Of course, it would be broken af.

ku5h

8 sec is a long time to continuously sprint while not using any abilities.
If you think you can just "Oh *** i'm being out numbered, i'll just sprint for 8 sec straight and cloak away", you're up for a rude awakening.
Also, whats the point of it out of combat when we have Stealth anyway.

jadarock

Gilvoth wrote: »

i love it the way it is right now.
please Do Not change it, please do not do what this thread is requesting.

i Love being able to run while in combat and become invisible, it's what makes a rogue a rogue.
"stealth" please keep it as it is.

So every proper open world build with min 15k stam is now a rogue?
I cant wait to see this in Cyrodiil.....
These devs lolol

JohnOfMarkarth

Gilvoth wrote: »

i love it the way it is right now.
please Do Not change it, please do not do what this thread is requesting.

i Love being able to run while in combat and become invisible, it's what makes a rogue a rogue.
"stealth" please keep it as it is.

no no. dont make true stealth and being a true rogue vamp dependent...--- wait am detecting abundance of sarcasm. Up in the 5 megalols

ku5h

jadarock wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

i love it the way it is right now.
please Do Not change it, please do not do what this thread is requesting.

i Love being able to run while in combat and become invisible, it's what makes a rogue a rogue.
"stealth" please keep it as it is.

So every proper open world build with min 15k stam is now a rogue?
I cant wait to see this in Cyrodiil.....
These devs lolol

Exaggeration much?!
If you think you'll use it in combat willy-nilly, your wrong. CC immunity is 7 sec. One of many thing that will force you to stop sprinting.
8 sec is long time in scenarios where you think you'll be able to be save your self with this passive.

Fur_like_snow

Seems like a buff to stam in PvP. Okay, so what’s the problem?

Gilvoth

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

i love it the way it is right now.
please Do Not change it, please do not do what this thread is requesting.

i Love being able to run while in combat and become invisible, it's what makes a rogue a rogue.
"stealth" please keep it as it is.

no no. dont make true stealth and being a true rogue vamp dependent...--- wait am detecting abundance of sarcasm. Up in the 5 megalols

Zero sarcasm.
i gave feedback

requesting that it remain exactly as it is.
thats my feedback.

Maxdevil

I think it’s fine since you have many disadvantages to be a vampire your skills are costing more and you are more vulnerable to fire

Dracane

The sprint reduction is fine. They could add another secondary effect to it. But this invisibility is really not wise.
Out of combat would be okay I guess... I rather have something else instead.

vgabor

Sounds fun with the shadow walker set: just stop moving for a second or two to get instant heal and stamina back

exeeter702

The hyperbolic sensationalism surrounding this passive is already becoming nauseating.

No, this is not in any way a superior version of cloak ffs. Cloak is on demand, ignores radius detection modifiers and benefits from the same combat effects that sneak attacks do while maintaining more movement speed. Basic invisibility falls victim entirely to detection radius modifiers of which magicka builds pretty much have the worst of this. This passives invisibility requires you be sprinting for x seconds before it kicks in and once again, sprint cost and stamina pools in general are universally a heavier burden on magicka builds. And even when they arent, such as a swift focused stamina build, this is only ever going to be an escape tool that might work half the time in small scale and be a stupid annoyance in large scale. It is absolutely not a better version of cloak come on now.

Dojohoda

Not sure if this matters to the topic, but just want to point out that you cannot cast skills while sprinting. Plus notice that the sprinting vampire will not go invisible immediately. I guess we will all see how this will work for all of us vampires when the PTS is out.

Vevvev

I can already imagine a stamina build running through an entire dungeon, getting to the boss, killing said boss, and then running back like nothing happened.

Dojohoda

I wonder if a vampire scroll runner will go invisible.

hesobad

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Even out of combat it is still too strong. It is not a skill... it is a freaking passive !

Invisibility has to go. It enables too much. At least as a NB you have to cast it every 2.8 - 2.9 seconds, so it uses your global CD and there is some skill & learning involved. Also, it cost magicka.

With sprint you can make the cost so little that the cost does not even matter.
Here, with this vamp passive ? Just "hold" a button.... wtf....

Basically: "Hold Shift button while moving to become invisible".

Classes that gain the most is pretty much every class other than NB (which btw is already at the bottom of the food chain). But classes that will synergise best is Warden, Necro and Sorc. Do you really want to give them access to invisibility ? The ganking combos you will get will be utter broken. Those classes (unlike NB) are not squishy. The are not designed in stealth - invisible gameplay. They have other means to defend / attack / play effectively.

Perfect analogy or example is: imagine if NB had access to streak for example. Would it be broken ? Of course, it would be broken af.

Good point, it being a passives obviously doesn't take up bar space like NB cloak does and doesn't require invis pots. You have it 100% as long as you sprint..

hesobad

exeeter702 wrote: »

The hyperbolic sensationalism surrounding this passive is already becoming nauseating.

No, this is not in any way a superior version of cloak ffs. Cloak is on demand, ignores radius detection modifiers and benefits from the same combat effects that sneak attacks do while maintaining more movement speed. Basic invisibility falls victim entirely to detection radius modifiers of which magicka builds pretty much have the worst of this. This passives invisibility requires you be sprinting for x seconds before it kicks in and once again, sprint cost and stamina pools in general are universally a heavier burden on magicka builds. And even when they arent, such as a swift focused stamina build, this is only ever going to be an escape tool that might work half the time in small scale and be a stupid annoyance in large scale. It is absolutely not a better version of cloak come on now.

Unless it is... which is why we need to test it, however, unless you're a developer I don't believe you have any better insight on this passives mechanics than any of us do. We are speculating here, but knowing the developers of this game and how they introduce stuff, I could say with very high accuracy that this will be an issue in PvP. Look at how they thought oblivion damage was a good idea, and now that form of damage is effectively removed entirely in all forms of PvP now. Many other examples.

hesobad

MusCanus wrote: »

If I will even play this trash of a game pvp at all after the update, it'll be torug's, infused, prismatic onslaught

I have a Mag DK build already theory crafted, Mag DK has always had a nasty heavy attack build if you build it right. I've 1 shot low res people with a heavy attack in BGs but after the buff, gonna be disgusting. Molten Armaments right now is a 35% heavy attack damage increase, I'm sure that will change. Or at least I hope so

WrathOfInnos

This is the next step in the performance improvements. Get 100% of players to become vampires, then make them all invisible so the game engine doesn’t have to render them.

Royaji

Vevvev wrote: »

I can already imagine a stamina build running through an entire dungeon, getting to the boss, killing said boss, and then running back like nothing happened.

That's the only silver lining I can see in this change. Those mindnumbing delves and general overland will be a lot less annoying.

I guess even ZOS understands that for some of their veteran players overland content is just a boring slog.

Vevvev

Dojohoda wrote: »

I wonder if a vampire scroll runner will go invisible.

They won't go invisible since the scroll carrier cannot go invisible already.

exeeter702

hesobad wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

The hyperbolic sensationalism surrounding this passive is already becoming nauseating.

No, this is not in any way a superior version of cloak ffs. Cloak is on demand, ignores radius detection modifiers and benefits from the same combat effects that sneak attacks do while maintaining more movement speed. Basic invisibility falls victim entirely to detection radius modifiers of which magicka builds pretty much have the worst of this. This passives invisibility requires you be sprinting for x seconds before it kicks in and once again, sprint cost and stamina pools in general are universally a heavier burden on magicka builds. And even when they arent, such as a swift focused stamina build, this is only ever going to be an escape tool that might work half the time in small scale and be a stupid annoyance in large scale. It is absolutely not a better version of cloak come on now.

Unless it is... which is why we need to test it, however, unless you're a developer I don't believe you have any better insight on this passives mechanics than any of us do. We are speculating here, but knowing the developers of this game and how they introduce stuff, I could say with very high accuracy that this will be an issue in PvP. Look at how they thought oblivion damage was a good idea, and now that form of damage is effectively removed entirely in all forms of PvP now. Many other examples.

All that is required is deductive reasoning based on what rules are already in place in the game. Sure they could come out and say that the "invisibility granted from this passive is in the rule breaker category" or something stupid like that, but if you think for a second that this is a sprint enabled NB cloak then godspeed.

exeeter702

Vevvev wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I wonder if a vampire scroll runner will go invisible.

They won't go invisible since the scroll carrier cannot go invisible already.

no dude! clearly we have to test it in game before we jump to such ridiculous conclusions, after all you arent a developer!

/s

Dracane

It makes you invisible after 3 seconds of spriting and you can sprint while invisible, which is impossible with other sources of invis.

ANY stamina build can escape at will with this. On magicka builds it will be similar, but stamina, as usual, is better at it. This passive is the single reason I am torn whether I like those changes or not. I am cautious.

josh.lackey_ESO

Invisibility is too powerful. Either everyone should have it or no one should have it. Unless Cloak gets nerfed, I support invisbility for all.

But we should be given a way to sprint with Magicka.

Alternatively, make invisibility a PvE-only mechanic. Keep sneak for PvP, but remove invisibility, except maybe potions.