New Mag Major Slayer “DPS Set” Roaring Opportunist

karekiz

So?

Olo/Roaring healer
Martial/Zaans or <Insert> Sustain set on healers now?

Kolzki

Runefang wrote: »

So Stam DD won't run Lokke any more and instead get to run another buff set. Power creep to the stam DPS again while Mag DD get nothing because their set is best suited to a healer.

I wouldn’t count on it working like that. Stam would swap to a relatively weaker set and get major slayer from the healer, possibly with lower up time. Mag would keep their current sets but gain major slayer. Moving major slayer to a support set likely works in mag DDs favour. It all depends on the up times though, which we don’t yet know.

Runefang

Kolzki wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

So Stam DD won't run Lokke any more and instead get to run another buff set. Power creep to the stam DPS again while Mag DD get nothing because their set is best suited to a healer.

I wouldn’t count on it working like that. Stam would swap to a relatively weaker set and get major slayer from the healer, possibly with lower up time. Mag would keep their current sets but gain major slayer. Moving major slayer to a support set likely works in mag DDs favour. It all depends on the up times though, which we don’t yet know.

I guess its too hard to see the impact right now especially with artifacts and the LA sustain in the picture.

YandereGirlfriend

Kolzki wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

So Stam DD won't run Lokke any more and instead get to run another buff set. Power creep to the stam DPS again while Mag DD get nothing because their set is best suited to a healer.

I wouldn’t count on it working like that. Stam would swap to a relatively weaker set and get major slayer from the healer, possibly with lower up time. Mag would keep their current sets but gain major slayer. Moving major slayer to a support set likely works in mag DDs favour. It all depends on the up times though, which we don’t yet know.

It's just frustrating because magDPS is still stuck using sets from 2015 and constantly has to split their sets with Healers whereas stamDPS gets brand new sets each and every DLC.

Aznarb

It amaze me how most people keep missing the point about these set and LA change.

LA = Add sustain
Stam set = Add sustain
Heal set = Add sustain.

Sustain nerf = 0

That mean the sustain is gonna be stupidly strong after this chapter.
I wouldn't be surprise if the next step is a big sustain nerf from glyph, stone and CP to force people to make set choice between sustain and power.

Maybe I'm wrong but it's to much sustain tool in a row to no be suspicious about it.

For this set, as a healer, I'm sick they keep releasing stupid set like this.
If you release set like this who obviously is gonna end on a healer, then give us useful stat like max mana or regen, not pen...

We already have the Z'en's set who is nothing but a DPS set with heal stat (max mana/regen).
Martial Knowledge who obviously should have been a stam set (even the name "martial" tend to stam side..)
And now we get this one...
And all of these 3 have boring and unfun way to be used..

At least the second one about regen since cool.
But with all the regen I don't think it gonna be useful except if sustain get nerf.

So... 0 hype about next chapter.
I'll wait until all change that are coming after the chapter (from what I see, they try to make some big change, it's not gonna stop here) to see how it's going.

Runefang

Aznarb wrote: »

It amaze me how most people keep missing the point about these set and LA change.

LA = Add sustain
Stam set = Add sustain
Heal set = Add sustain.

Sustain nerf = 0

That mean the sustain is gonna be stupidly strong after this chapter.
I wouldn't be surprise if the next step is a big sustain nerf from glyph, stone and CP to force people to make set choice between sustain and power.

Maybe I'm wrong but it's to much sustain tool in a row to no be suspicious about it.

For this set, as a healer, I'm sick they keep releasing stupid set like this.
If you release set like this who obviously is gonna end on a healer, then give us useful stat like max mana or regen, not pen...

We already have the Z'en's set who is nothing but a DPS set with heal stat (max mana/regen).
Martial Knowledge who obviously should have been a stam set (even the name "martial" tend to stam side..)
And now we get this one...
And all of these 3 have boring and unfun way to be used..

At least the second one about regen since cool.
But with all the regen I don't think it gonna be useful except if sustain get nerf.

So... 0 hype about next chapter.
I'll wait until all change that are coming after the chapter (from what I see, they try to make some big change, it's not gonna stop here) to see how it's going.

Well they clearly haven't thought it'll end up on a healer. Sometimes I don't think they know their game very well.

I suspect they keep adding pen to sets because they've got stats to show a major thing that keeps dps low generally is insufficient pen. Obviously low pen not an issue for any organised group but they've been doing too consistently for the last few releases for this to not be the reason many new sets get it and why Necromancers come with inbuilt pen too.

Tannus15

At best, as a dps set you might put it on 1 mag dps in your trial group.
That's not exciting.
As other people have pointed out, it's also a "don't run these other sets" set. Master Architect in particular is clearly a dead set, as dead as war machine is with lokk in the game.

ZeroXFF

Royaji wrote: »

Seems like healers are about to get their version of Alkosh.

That would be true if spell damage and max. mag was replaced with more penetration. It's 2 useful bonuses for the role that will usually end up using it. On Alkosh there are 0.

universal_wrath

Marteene wrote: »

Few questions
- Why would we need a new major slayer set “for DPS” when it requires more strict proc conditions than the current ones?
- What is the point of making a new set that obviously plays towards healers/support but is advertised as a DPS set?
- Why slot Spell Penetration on a DPS set? The community has worked very hard to do the math and implement setups that provide adequate penetration in trials.
- If this set procs during the duration of Off Balance, will it provide enough Major Slayer to offset other sets that provide that same buff to fewer people. Due to Off Balance’s uptime, this seems unlikely.
- Why is it so important to completely devalue preexisting sets such as Master Architect, War Machine, and Tooth of Lokkestiiz? In the same way that the original concept for Mantle of Siroria was flawed, so is this. Roaring Opportunist needs to provide something meaning for DPS, stamina sets are constantly rewarded with high damage output conditions.
- Finally, how are we supposed to react to Off Balance proccing? There is current no in game announcement that states imminent Off Balance, until there’s a comprehensive prediction in place these sets won’t be even somewhat useful for DPS.

Because most trials are done without a perfect set up. It gives non hardcore guilds to compete,maybe? Regardless of set bonuses, sometimes PvE sets are used in PvP which I find good for build diverity. Infalible eather thought to be healer only set, I use on my heavy attack set up DD and I mfind many people in BGs use it with lightning staff for heavy attack dmg boost and debuff. Vicous ophidion is also being used for sustain but not as much. Some changes may not effect highest end PvE, but it will definitely effect the high end for dungeons, and pvp.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Perfect Roaring Opportunist:
2 items: Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack to an enemy that's been set Off-Balance grants you and up to 11 group members Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

The 5th bonus needs to be changed:
Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack grants the person Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

This will give us a magicka version of Lokkestiiz

John_Falstaff

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Perfect Roaring Opportunist:
2 items: Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack to an enemy that's been set Off-Balance grants you and up to 11 group members Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

The 5th bonus needs to be changed:
Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack grants the person Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

This will give us a magicka version of Lokkestiiz

Mm-m, I think we don't a Master Architect killer, enough murdering old sets. They're last opportunity for certain classes to provide some group support.

Septimus_Magna

Marteene wrote: »

- Why would we need a new major slayer set “for DPS” when it requires more strict proc conditions than the current ones?

Not everyone is a stam DD with high major slayer up-time from Lokke.

Marteene wrote: »

- What is the point of making a new set that obviously plays towards healers/support but is advertised as a DPS set?

Other main healer set is Olorime, which already has minor aegis so its extra damage for the healer which isnt necessarily bad, especially for vet dungeons. This also allows DDs to run this set without sacrificing minor slayer so its not a bad choice imo.

Marteene wrote: »

- Why slot Spell Penetration on a DPS set? The community has worked very hard to do the math and implement setups that provide adequate penetration in trials.

Spell pen is not useful for support roles, for DDs its fine if they rearrange their CP.

Marteene wrote: »

- If this set procs during the duration of Off Balance, will it provide enough Major Slayer to offset other sets that provide that same buff to fewer people. Due to Off Balance’s uptime, this seems unlikely.

Again, not everyone is a stam DD with constant major slayer. This support set is mostly a buff for mag DDs because they dont have easy access to major slayer. Master Architect just is not worth it on classes with high cost ultimates.

Marteene wrote: »

- Why is it so important to completely devalue preexisting sets such as Master Architect, War Machine, and Tooth of Lokkestiiz? In the same way that the original concept for Mantle of Siroria was flawed, so is this. Roaring Opportunist needs to provide something meaning for DPS, stamina sets are constantly rewarded with high damage output conditions.

Its too early to say anything about this, the duration and cooldown determines how strong this buff will be. The off-balance duration is 7 seconds every 22 seconds so the up-time probably wont be very high. Maybe the up-time can get better if two people run it and one procs in off the boss and the other procs it off adds for example.

Marteene wrote: »

- Finally, how are we supposed to react to Off Balance proccing? There is current no in game announcement that states imminent Off Balance, until there’s a comprehensive prediction in place these sets won’t be even somewhat useful for DPS.

I agree the swirls around the feet often are difficult to see, on PC you can track off-balance with add-ons but on console this is probably a lot harder to notice.

Hotdog_23

LiquidPony wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Perfect Roaring Opportunist:
2 items: Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack to an enemy that's been set Off-Balance grants you and up to 11 group members Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

Wow great for organized trial groups not so much for everyone else. Timing heavy attacks on Off-balance is critical. Not lowing the ceiling much with this set

Mechanics build around off-balance are universally stupid.

I mean on PC it's not *terrible* because there are addons you can use to track it carefully, e.g., a countdown to when off-balance immunity wears off.

But on console this is nonsense. Just wait for the dumb swirling indicator over the target's head? Or perhaps we'll have good console raid teams making their supports run stopwatches to track it like they do for the minis in Asylum.

I'll give ZOS one thing: they manage to implement brain-dead changes and come up with ideas that are almost universally hated by their endgame community at an astonishing rate. I'm honestly not sure they could *** people off more if they were trying to.

This so much. You can tell that ZOS only works and test on PC's for the most part and spends very little time playing or testing on consoles. Off-balance is a pain/difficulty to track on console along with every other buff and duration of action of skills.


edit spelling

Tanis-Stormbinder

Master Architect is not a viable set for all magic classes

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Perfect Roaring Opportunist:
2 items: Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack to an enemy that's been set Off-Balance grants you and up to 11 group members Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

The 5th bonus needs to be changed:
Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack grants the person Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

This will give us a magicka version of Lokkestiiz

Mm-m, I think we don't a Master Architect killer, enough murdering old sets. They're last opportunity for certain classes to provide some group support.

Master Architect is not a viable set for all magic classes, we need our version of Lokkestiiz

John_Falstaff

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Master Architect is not a viable set for all magic classes

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Perfect Roaring Opportunist:
2 items: Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack to an enemy that's been set Off-Balance grants you and up to 11 group members Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

The 5th bonus needs to be changed:
Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack grants the person Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

This will give us a magicka version of Lokkestiiz

Mm-m, I think we don't a Master Architect killer, enough murdering old sets. They're last opportunity for certain classes to provide some group support.

Master Architect is not a viable set for all magic classes, we need our version of Lokkestiiz

Magic classes that don't use MA have own group offerings to bring to the raid. While for magblades, for instance, it's about the last group support they can offer. We don't need new selfish sets to shift out already underdog classes out of the game.

Tanis-Stormbinder

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Master Architect is not a viable set for all magic classes

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Perfect Roaring Opportunist:
2 items: Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack to an enemy that's been set Off-Balance grants you and up to 11 group members Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

The 5th bonus needs to be changed:
Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack grants the person Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

This will give us a magicka version of Lokkestiiz

Mm-m, I think we don't a Master Architect killer, enough murdering old sets. They're last opportunity for certain classes to provide some group support.

Master Architect is not a viable set for all magic classes, we need our version of Lokkestiiz

Magic classes that don't use MA have own group offerings to bring to the raid. While for magblades, for instance, it's about the last group support they can offer. We don't need new selfish sets to shift out already underdog classes out of the game.

Can't disagree with you more, but I respect your opinion.

John_Falstaff

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Master Architect is not a viable set for all magic classes

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Perfect Roaring Opportunist:
2 items: Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X%.
4 items: Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack to an enemy that's been set Off-Balance grants you and up to 11 group members Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

The 5th bonus needs to be changed:
Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka & Dealing damage with a Fully-Charged Heavy Attack grants the person Major Slayer, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by X% for X seconds. Roaring Opportunist can only affect a target every X seconds

This will give us a magicka version of Lokkestiiz

Mm-m, I think we don't a Master Architect killer, enough murdering old sets. They're last opportunity for certain classes to provide some group support.

Master Architect is not a viable set for all magic classes, we need our version of Lokkestiiz

Magic classes that don't use MA have own group offerings to bring to the raid. While for magblades, for instance, it's about the last group support they can offer. We don't need new selfish sets to shift out already underdog classes out of the game.

Can't disagree with you more, but I respect your opinion.

I'll elaborate, on the same example of magblade (and I do play one, so I'm speaking from experience). Take the case of vSS portal team. What self-buffs and debuffs a mag class can bring there? Templars bring PotL, magdens have Fracture/Breach and own source of Minor Berserk (none of that present on magblades, you have to sacrifice personal dps to slot the otherwise useless Reaper's Mark) and Minor Vulnerability (good luck gutting your dps with Lotus Fan, and you have to pull your weight in portal, there's no room there for buff builds without good damage), mDKs simply have higher damage for the job, and don't even get me started on necros with their Major Vulnerability. By comparison, mNB goes into the portal practically without any self-buffs and without debuffs it can apply to Eternal Servant. I'm a portal runner, and currently I have to wear Master Architect -while- having to pull my weight there, because otherwise I'm plain useless in that role. And you want to make more selfish sets that would annihilate my raison d'etre there.

Buff own toolkit for mag specs that lack it, and I'll be the first one to say that we can afford getting new selfish sets. But right now? Nope. Buffs first, nerfs after.

To elaborate on the principle, of -course- MA is not viable on all classes. That's precisely the point. It gives the reason for the classes it -is- viable on to come fight alongside with you and give -you- that buff, without you having to wear MA. It encourages class diversity.

Marteene

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Marteene wrote: »

- Why would we need a new major slayer set “for DPS” when it requires more strict proc conditions than the current ones?

Not everyone is a stam DD with high major slayer up-time from Lokke.

I think you mistake me, I main Magicka classes. This set actually moves to disincentive mag further. Stam has been rewarded with an individually proccable source of Major Slayer and has access to unique and powerful trials sets like Lokke, AY, and Relequin while mag has gotten remakes of old stam sets. Making a set that is likely only going to be usable by one mag player means that DPS is further rewarded to stam as they'll be able to wear AY and Relequin without the loss of major slayer. Mag on the other hand, will either be relegated to supporting stam DPS via sets like this or entirely phased over to healer responsibilities.