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Sincere Kudos to ZOS Regarding the Off-Cycle PTS

ATreeGnome
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Amidst all the concerns and debates regarding the proposed light/heavy attack changes, I think it's important for the community to take a moment to recognize something that I think we can all agree has been a step in the right direction for the game. I'm referring to the fact that ZOS has taken the time and effort to offer an extra phase to the PTS cycle for the community to provide feedback on major changes before they are effectively set in stone, as is typical of the normal PTS cycle. This is was an unprecedented step and I'm sure that ZOS was well aware of just how much flak they would take over any proposed changes of such magnitude. No matter what our opinions are on the actual proposed changes, (and I have some very strong opinions on these cahanges) I think it's important that we give ZOS props when they do something right, especially when it would be far easier for them to not do it. So good job on improving communication, ZOS. This extra opportunity to provide feedback is something that most of us would like to see more of in the future!
  • AinSoph
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    In terms of ZOS actually using the PTS for actual random testing instead of lame finalizing, yea it's great
  • Gnortranermara
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    Agreed. I love the proposed changes, although some tweaks are definitely needed. This off-cycle testing will allow them to fine tune large mechanical changes without pressure to push it live with inadequate testing. I hope all major changes go through this process in the future.
  • ATreeGnome
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    Agreed. I love the proposed changes, although some tweaks are definitely needed. This off-cycle testing will allow them to fine tune large mechanical changes without pressure to push it live with inadequate testing. I hope all major changes go through this process in the future.

    To be clear, I think the changes are mostly terrible and poorly thought out, I'm just happy that ZOS is taking steps to gather more feedback from the community. :)
  • GeorgeBlack
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    True
  • fred4
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    ATreeGnome wrote: »
    Amidst all the concerns and debates regarding the proposed light/heavy attack changes, I think it's important for the community to take a moment to recognize something that I think we can all agree has been a step in the right direction for the game. I'm referring to the fact that ZOS has taken the time and effort to offer an extra phase to the PTS cycle for the community to provide feedback on major changes before they are effectively set in stone, as is typical of the normal PTS cycle. This is was an unprecedented step and I'm sure that ZOS was well aware of just how much flak they would take over any proposed changes of such magnitude. No matter what our opinions are on the actual proposed changes, (and I have some very strong opinions on these cahanges) I think it's important that we give ZOS props when they do something right, especially when it would be far easier for them to not do it. So good job on improving communication, ZOS. This extra opportunity to provide feedback is something that most of us would like to see more of in the future!
    It's hard to argue with that.

    However, as you also say, the changes are mostly terrible, out of left field and unwarranted. They mostly highlight the gulf between the devs and experienced players. I honestly think the devs will be unable to acknowledge the true size of that gulf and consider shelving this for now. They went ahead and programmed it. You don't invest considerable time doing that, just to throw it all away. If that is truly on the cards, I will be very surprised. They could have done the write up without programming the changes.
    Edited by fred4 on March 30, 2020 10:21PM
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Elsonso
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    ATreeGnome wrote: »
    Agreed. I love the proposed changes, although some tweaks are definitely needed. This off-cycle testing will allow them to fine tune large mechanical changes without pressure to push it live with inadequate testing. I hope all major changes go through this process in the future.

    To be clear, I think the changes are mostly terrible and poorly thought out, I'm just happy that ZOS is taking steps to gather more feedback from the community. :)

    I think that the changes are heading in the right direction, but I agree with you that ZOS is taking steps to gather feedback earlier, which should (hopefully) result in a better result. If they decide to make changes along these lines, that is. I am not convinced that they won't scuttle the entire project.
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • darthgummibear_ESO
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    ATreeGnome wrote: »
    Amidst all the concerns and debates regarding the proposed light/heavy attack changes, I think it's important for the community to take a moment to recognize something that I think we can all agree has been a step in the right direction for the game. I'm referring to the fact that ZOS has taken the time and effort to offer an extra phase to the PTS cycle for the community to provide feedback on major changes before they are effectively set in stone, as is typical of the normal PTS cycle. This is was an unprecedented step and I'm sure that ZOS was well aware of just how much flak they would take over any proposed changes of such magnitude. No matter what our opinions are on the actual proposed changes, (and I have some very strong opinions on these cahanges) I think it's important that we give ZOS props when they do something right, especially when it would be far easier for them to not do it. So good job on improving communication, ZOS. This extra opportunity to provide feedback is something that most of us would like to see more of in the future!

    This is kind of putting the cart before the horse, isn't it? We haven't even seen if they will actually act on any of the feedback. It's all just words now.
  • Shaggygaming
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    If the LA / HA changes are released I don't think I will be playing this game anymore. They should honestly be working on performance because we just had a performance release and I don't see the game in any better state performance wise.
  • SidraWillowsky
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    They're not going to listen to our feedback. These changes are going live regardless. Maybe they'll adjust the nerfs and pretend like it was based on feedback, but I fully believe that they're planning this and that they'll reduce the nerfs to whatever levels they've already planned to make it feel like we had some say.
  • John_Falstaff
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    ...and now that Greymoor information is available, where kudos is now? They didn't plan to listen for our feedback. Not for a second. What a surprise.
  • Elsonso
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    ...and now that Greymoor information is available, where kudos is now? They didn't plan to listen for our feedback. Not for a second. What a surprise.

    I don't understand. Are these combat changes in Greymoor?
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • John_Falstaff
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    ...and now that Greymoor information is available, where kudos is now? They didn't plan to listen for our feedback. Not for a second. What a surprise.

    I don't understand. Are these combat changes in Greymoor?

    New gear sets in Greymoor are tied to heavy attacks and off-balance, so it's pretty much set in stone. When they published this 'off-cycle pts', they already were designing Greymoor for those combat changes.
  • Shantu
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    It's a PR joke. Participating in PTS feels more like a poke in the eye these days.
  • Elsonso
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    Elsonso wrote: »
    ...and now that Greymoor information is available, where kudos is now? They didn't plan to listen for our feedback. Not for a second. What a surprise.

    I don't understand. Are these combat changes in Greymoor?

    New gear sets in Greymoor are tied to heavy attacks and off-balance, so it's pretty much set in stone. When they published this 'off-cycle pts', they already were designing Greymoor for those combat changes.

    Ah, so "no". You could have just said that! :smile:
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Mettaricana
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    I would offer a congrats to zos if i wasn't so absolutely sure they'll ignore our feedback and push the off cycle through to the final greymoor patch without so much as batting an eye...
  • xaraan
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    Actually putting this out to test and maybe not even use is exactly how the PTS should be used.

    Lying to us about doing that when they are already building the new patch around the change however is worse than doing nothing at all. I'd have been understanding if they just said, "these are changes are making and not sure how to approach it so putting it on PTS a month+ earlier than rest of patch for more testing." Now, if they roll out this change at all after having seen what I saw of greymoor it will just look like a bunch of lies.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • SilverKatz
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    xaraan wrote: »
    Actually putting this out to test and maybe not even use is exactly how the PTS should be used.

    Lying to us about doing that when they are already building the new patch around the change however is worse than doing nothing at all. I'd have been understanding if they just said, "these are changes are making and not sure how to approach it so putting it on PTS a month+ earlier than rest of patch for more testing." Now, if they roll out this change at all after having seen what I saw of greymoor it will just look like a bunch of lies.

    Fully agree.
    Edited by SilverKatz on April 1, 2020 6:30AM
  • ZOS_GregoryV
    Greetings all,

    After removing a few comments for baiting, we must remind everyone that all posts are to be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules we have in place. Baiting is a violation of our rules and is stated as follows:
    Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.
    If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

    Thank you for your understanding,
    -Greg-
    Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on April 2, 2020 1:12AM
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