So if the dirrection was to make combat more like the other ES games how would you do it?

Thevampirenight
Thevampirenight
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What would you do? How would you go about it what mechanics would you change to align with it? Just hypathetical. This isn't about mmorpg mechanics but actual mechanics seen in the other
Elder Scrolls games what would you add or do to make it align with the Eso mechanics and how would you merge them together?
Just wondering?
How would you make this work and what mechanics from any of the last three major elder scrolls games not including blades would you add into the game? What mechanics from Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim would you blend into the gameplay?
Edited by Thevampirenight on March 26, 2020 4:36AM
PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • karekiz
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    Uhhh

    No hotbars?
    No Weapon swapping?
    LA / HA
    Left click individual from Right click?
    No classes.
    No Skill point system. You learn abilities by reading spell scrolls etc.
    CP system.
    You can become max in all things equally.

    Basically not ESO?
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    karekiz wrote: »
    Uhhh

    No hotbars?
    No Weapon swapping?
    LA / HA
    Left click individual from Right click?
    No classes.
    No Skill point system. You learn abilities by reading spell scrolls etc.
    CP system.
    You can become max in all things equally.

    Basically not ESO?

    No blending mechanics from any of the three games into Eso's combat system kinda like the new changes seem to look a lot like the Power attacks seen in Elder Scrolls Skyrim and Oblivion. So any type of combat related mechanics really from any of the other Elder Scrolls games. Anything from magic to resistances of monsters or anything related to the combat seen in other Elder Scrolls games. How would you merge together those elements to the existing Elder Scrolls Online combat system? That is what I'm asking how would you merge the two worlds so to speak.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on March 26, 2020 4:36AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • FierceSam
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    Why would I care what combat is like in a different, single player game? Especially ones that haven’t changed in the entire time ESO has been around?

    I suspect that if it was either remotely possible or in any way conducive to good multiplayer play, they would simply have ported over the single player combat system in the first place rather than spend time and money developing a different system.
  • Elsonso
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    What would you do? How would you go about it what mechanics would you change to align with it? Just hypathetical. This isn't about mmorpg mechanics but actual mechanics seen in the other
    Elder Scrolls games what would you add or do to make it align with the Eso mechanics and how would you merge them together?
    Just wondering?
    How would you make this work and what mechanics from any of the last three major elder scrolls games not including blades would you add into the game? What mechanics from Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim would you blend into the gameplay?

    What ESO lost, with respect to the ESO single player games, is the feeling of a separation between physical attacks and magical attacks. The line gets really blurred in ESO. ESO is very much a magic-based game with physical attacks added to it as a secondary consideration.

    That said, single player combat should not be used with an MMO. As interesting as a "two slot" system would be, and I use "interesting" in a way probably not frequently considered, I think that the current system is more appropriate.
    @Elsonso on PC North America
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ElsonsoJannus


  • bmnoble
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    I would tell them not too, the only reason combat is tolerable to me at least in the single player games is due to how overpowered your character can get without having to worry about balance.
  • Mettaricana
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    Drop all classes break all skills off of skill lines, trash cp ,slow down the games dungeon content simplify the fights so that it can actually be played in first person Or 3rd. Make quests have choices that matter.
    Bring back the legendary fun aspect of the game ditch all skyshards implement a rng system that awards all kinda random named loot weapons armors etc that have various effects. Ditch the 5pc sets and passives attached to armor types turn the dial to 11 in terms of dark themes bloody choices.
    I'm everything that doesn't belong in the pact but i'm there anyway...
  • Gilvoth
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    i believe each game should have its own "mechanics" when it comes to combat.
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • KyleTheYounger
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    TheFM wrote: »
    Omg, just STOP! this game is not Skyrim, is not oblivion, not morrowind! It should not play anything like it, and it should be er Play anything like them! This game should - never- cater to those players. Skyrim has the most boring brain dead gameplay ever, and it was not popular because of the combat but the story! Just stop.

    You're absolutely right.

    Which is precisely why ZoS should've NEVER branded this online extension of a poor game mechanic MMO after the TES franchise. ZoS wanted to jump the EA/Activision bandwagon and cash in on the stellar success of single player TES to date. Not hard to see how ZoS was only too eager to be convinced given the combination of a minority MMO focused group of the TES fan base. And the siren lure within the industry to make easy millions off a macro transaction ridden, loot box saturated, bare bones MVP.

    rambling wall of text
    Problem with ESO is the entire MMO has come to maturity after 5 years. Those veteran players who have played ESO since its inception, have achieved what there is to achieve at CP 800. And either taking extended vacations by returning to single player Skyrim/TES games, playing other franchises, or completely moved on.

    The other problem with ESO is as an MMO, it has increasingly suffered from meaningful DLC. Which if done properly, would have expanded the existing 20+ years of TES single player lore within Tamriel. New world regions on the map are based on existing world spaces in single player lore. With the exception of Summerset (fairly decently executed) and Coldharbor/Clockwork City world spaces, the DLC for new world spaces has been lacking in replay value. Morrowind was literally a regurgitation of single player Morrowind. With a complete absence of iconic, game play depth elements the likes of the Morag Tong. Or any meaningful side quest story line involving the Ashlanders. The TG/DB DLC were a great addition for both story, farming, and skill line purposes. But sorely lacking in replay value once both DLC MQ and skill lines are maxed out. And NO, replaying these with a new toon doesn't resolve the problem. It seems a lackadaisical approach, combined with a lack of originality and commitment on the part of the ZoS dev team has become the norm. Recently released DLC like Elsweyr and upcoming, single player Skyrim based Greymoor are perfect examples of this. The antiques system sounds like it's going to be a set of go fetch quests all across the game map. And a novelty skill line that will wear off after the first two playthorughs or so.


    It seems with each DLC release, nothing new or fresh by means of game world spaces are added to Nirn (e.g. ZERO initiative on ZoS part to develop the Akavari continent). And as a result of this lack of originality, ESO has come to increasingly rely on contemporary, non canon fantasy game lore. With PvP game play as a pure afterthought. Hiding the poorly developed PvP game mechanic and game play behind the canonical lore of the Interregnum period. Making PvP game play even less logical by the restriction of all consensual PvP to the Cyrodil part of the map. When in fact, canon TES lore clearly indicated the alliance wars raged across all of Tamriel during this period!



    TL DR

    Now in it's 6 year anniversary, ESO is a fully matured MMO. With apparently no new or innovative game play content left to offer PvE players. Especially since its aging server tech limits player base game enjoyment by means of game mechanics and performance.

    On the PvP end, ESO's PvP game play was illogical and poorly thought from the start by restricting PvP to one area of the map. Yes, confining PvP to Cyrodil was necessary to appease the larger PvE part of the MMO fan base (and any solo minded PvE players as well). But in trying to accommodate the play styles of everyone, ZoS lost sight of what made--and continues to make--- single player TES so compelling and immersive to date.

    Perfect example #1: Indriks FFS. The ZoS dev that came up with that particularly exotic idea must have been vaping some pretty potent moon sugar.

    Perfect example #2: The absurd, nonsensical ability of all faction members to live peacefully in non alliance parts of the map--Summerset/Alinor being the worst lore breaking regions---with ZERO consequences of hostile attack/death by other players/faction NPC alliance members of said region.

    Perfect example #3:
    Nobody:
    ZoS: Greymoor!
    Fan base: Wot? Why?
    ZoS: Because Skyrim. Which is still selling like hotcakes thanks to the ingenuity of the PC modding community to date. And we want our cut of that non-monetized single player pie right NOW damn it!

    Ah well. When will ZoS learn you can't please everyone. But don't pretend you genuinely care about developing a game. Then make a bare bones MVP MMO which attempts to do the exact opposite of just that. Add insult to injury through a thinly veiled attempt to use ESO as a cosmetic storefront for the store. Which is the sole reason behind the whole MMO game design in the first place. To make millions off ridiculously overpriced micro transactions. And no intent of accountability on the dev's part to add any replay value from new/innovative game play content that is actually lore based. Nevermind the game performance which aging tech foundation continues its steady decline with time.

    And let's not forget to keep the fan base distracted from all these chronic issues. Hmmm. What's the best way to do this? What special spirit-animal-totem will the vaping devs of ZoS dream up next? Man-bear-pig mounts? Puppy-baby-doggy non combat pets? Aetherius powered equinine mounts of the Magna Ze that fire rainbows out of their rear ends? The possibilities for the online store -- the ONLY game feature which has never broken down to date -- are endless......
    Edited by KyleTheYounger on March 26, 2020 11:00PM
  • nhisso
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    This game would be much better served with Black Desert Online's combat, based on the class restrictions ZoS has pointlessly placed on characters in this game.

    BDO has its flaws, but combat sure as s*** aint one of em. Again, especially if we are talking about the classes in this game. I just cant believe how dumbed down the skill bars and combat is. They could have at least offered multiple animations. Game gets stale fast. I come back every couple years and I play and it is fun and im always like "this time im going to make this my MMO". After about a week or 2, im back to remembering why i stopped playing last time. Game gets boring so fast. The combat plays like an alpha

    However, since Im sure ZoS would never do something cool to this game, they should least make combat like Morrowind's in one sense: The direction you move changed your attack animation and what it did. Now, the latter could be ignored, im not asking for special stab damage or over head smash damage, but the former should be implemented with regard to animation change. Just to change up the dull lame combat animations.

    In Morrowind: If you pull back, you do an over head smash/swipe. Moving side to side makes you slice left to right; right to left. And you dont have to move a big amount, so it wont affect how you play pvp just to change your animation. Pushing forward stabs. Jump attacks should do a cool slam animation. Attacking when coming out of a roll-dodge should do a stab or swipe at an enemy's legs. I just simply cannot believe the simplistic terrible combat in this game. I really cant. Might as well play a tab target auto attack game.
    Edited by nhisso on March 26, 2020 11:12PM
  • TheFM
    TheFM
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    TheFM wrote: »
    Omg, just STOP! this game is not Skyrim, is not oblivion, not morrowind! It should not play anything like it, and it should be er Play anything like them! This game should - never- cater to those players. Skyrim has the most boring brain dead gameplay ever, and it was not popular because of the combat but the story! Just stop.

    You're absolutely right.

    Which is precisely why ZoS should've NEVER branded this online extension of a poor game mechanic MMO after the TES franchise. ZoS wanted to jump the EA/Activision bandwagon and cash in on the stellar success of single player TES to date. Not hard to see how ZoS was only too eager to be convinced given the combination of a minority MMO focused group of the TES fan base. And the siren lure within the industry to make easy millions off a macro transaction ridden, loot box saturated, bare bones MVP.

    rambling wall of text
    Problem with ESO is the entire MMO has come to maturity after 5 years. Those veteran players who have played ESO since its inception, have achieved what there is to achieve at CP 800. And either taking extended vacations by returning to single player Skyrim/TES games, playing other franchises, or completely moved on.

    The other problem with ESO is as an MMO, it has increasingly suffered from meaningful DLC. Which if done properly, would have expanded the existing 20+ years of TES single player lore within Tamriel. New world regions on the map are based on existing world spaces in single player lore. With the exception of Summerset (fairly decently executed) and Coldharbor/Clockwork City world spaces, the DLC for new world spaces has been lacking in replay value. Morrowind was literally a regurgitation of single player Morrowind. With a complete absence of iconic, game play depth elements the likes of the Morag Tong. Or any meaningful side quest story line involving the Ashlanders. The TG/DB DLC were a great addition for both story, farming, and skill line purposes. But sorely lacking in replay value once both DLC MQ and skill lines are maxed out. And NO, replaying these with a new toon doesn't resolve the problem. It seems a lackadaisical approach, combined with a lack of originality and commitment on the part of the ZoS dev team has become the norm. Recently released DLC like Elsweyr and upcoming, single player Skyrim based Greymoor are perfect examples of this. The antiques system sounds like it's going to be a set of go fetch quests all across the game map. And a novelty skill line that will wear off after the first two playthorughs or so.


    It seems with each DLC release, nothing new or fresh by means of game world spaces are added to Nirn (e.g. ZERO initiative on ZoS part to develop the Akavari continent). And as a result of this lack of originality, ESO has come to increasingly rely on contemporary, non canon fantasy game lore. With PvP game play as a pure afterthought. Hiding the poorly developed PvP game mechanic and game play behind the canonical lore of the Interregnum period. Making PvP game play even less logical by the restriction of all consensual PvP to the Cyrodil part of the map. When in fact, canon TES lore clearly indicated the alliance wars raged across all of Tamriel during this period!



    TL DR

    Now in it's 6 year anniversary, ESO is a fully matured MMO. With apparently no new or innovative game play content left to offer PvE players. Especially since its aging server tech limits player base game enjoyment by means of game mechanics and performance.

    On the PvP end, ESO's PvP game play was illogical and poorly thought from the start by restricting PvP to one area of the map. Yes, confining PvP to Cyrodil was necessary to appease the larger PvE part of the MMO fan base (and any solo minded PvE players as well). But in trying to accommodate the play styles of everyone, ZoS lost sight of what made--and continues to make--- single player TES so compelling and immersive to date.

    Perfect example #1: Indriks FFS. The ZoS dev that came up with that particularly exotic idea must have been vaping some pretty potent moon sugar.

    Perfect example #2: The absurd, nonsensical ability of all faction members to live peacefully in non alliance parts of the map--Summerset/Alinor being the worst lore breaking regions---with ZERO consequences of hostile attack/death by other players/faction NPC alliance members of said region.

    Perfect example #3:
    Nobody:
    ZoS: Greymoor!
    Fan base: Wot? Why?
    ZoS: Because Skyrim. Which is still selling like hotcakes thanks to the ingenuity of the PC modding community to date. And we want our cut of that non-monetized single player pie right NOW damn it!

    Ah well. When will ZoS learn you can't please everyone. But don't pretend you genuinely care about developing a game. Then make a bare bones MVP MMO which attempts to do the exact opposite of just that. Add insult to injury through a thinly veiled attempt to use ESO as a cosmetic storefront for the store. Which is the sole reason behind the whole MMO game design in the first place. To make millions off ridiculously overpriced micro transactions. And no intent of accountability on the dev's part to add any replay value from new/innovative game play content that is actually lore based. Nevermind the game performance which aging tech foundation continues its steady decline with time.

    And let's not forget to keep the fan base distracted from all these chronic issues. Hmmm. What's the best way to do this? What special spirit-animal-totem will the vaping devs of ZoS dream up next? Man-bear-pig mounts? Puppy-baby-doggy non combat pets? Aetherius powered equinine mounts of the Magna Ze that fire rainbows out of their rear ends? The possibilities for the online store -- the ONLY game feature which has never broken down to date -- are endless......

    You get an awesome. These people have been around since the get go, demanding it be more like skyrim. Its ridiculous really. The combat here is 945803850395348905 times more fun than the brain dead no thought can play with my toes combat of skyrim .
  • Sanctum74
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    Simple answer I wouldn’t. Skyrim was an amazing single player game and was very immersive with it’s stories, but it only kept my interest for 6 months where as Eso has kept my interest for 6 years because of the combat and build diversity.
  • Nemesis7884
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    the main thing i changed if i'd redesign eso from scratch is only working with skill(lines) and no classes...

    i probably also redesign a bit how la ha work and implement something like a block/counter mechanics with them, when you time a counter you can offbalance enemies or something to make that more active

    and i would also like to see a lot better looking combat animations...
  • Cireous
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    Spellcrafting? ...Spellcrafting. :mask:
  • Thevampirenight
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    Well here is what I would do. I would make the system work more like Oblivions, I did start out with Oblivion I played a lot of Skyrim too but Oblivion.
    When it comes to classes and skill lines it would work a lot more like Oblivions overall open system.
    How I would do it is this
    Core Class is your main skill set.
    Then I would make a copy of various skill lines and have them go by a different name. These would be world skill lines that can be taught in a number of different ways. You are allowed to learn five skills lines from the other classes. I would not give full on freedom with it but make it more like that freedom seen in Oblivion instead of those skills leveling slower though I'd make them less effective in damage healing and everything.
    To help balance everything out and then require to learn these skills seeking out a teacher a book or some other quest giver to learn these skills from.

    So for example you can find various teachers that can teach one portion of the skill line for a class or maybe find a book out there that teaches. Others could be optional rewards for quest lines or taught by some wandering priest or in a temple.
    So examples of how they would be named when they are put in as world skill lines.

    Grave Lord would be as a world skill line called Necromantic Summoning
    Bone Tyrant would be called Bone Magic
    Living Death would be called Spirit Medium

    Assassination would be called Death Magic
    Shadow would be called Shadow Magic
    Siphoning would be called Blood Magic

    Ardent Flame would be called Pyromancy
    Draconic Power would be called Akaviri Dragon Magic
    Earthern Heart would be called Terramancy

    Aedric Spear would be called Photomancy (Manipulation of Light)
    Dawns Wraith would be called Solar Magic
    Restoring Light would be called Caretaker Magic

    Dark Magic would be call Binding Magic
    Daedric Summoning would be called Witchcraft
    Storm Magic would be called Electromancy

    Animal companions would be called Nature Summoning
    Green Magic would be called Wyrd Magic
    Winter's Embrace would be called Cryomancy

    I would mix more Oblivion then I would Skyrim to the overall gameplay. Including replacing the Eso Mundus stone system. I believe they were inspired by Skyrims Mundus stone system. however I would change that and make it more like Oblivions Birth Sign system. Requiring players to pick very carefully what they choose. They would be a bit better then the games current mundus stone system. Some even would have abilties unique to that birth sign. Just like birth sign system seen in Elder Scrolls Oblivion and Morrowind that is how I would role personally. I would align some of it with Tes 4 including npc mechanics for example making ghosts immune to physical damage require silver or magical weapons or skills to defeat. I really would do this, I would make such foes much more challenging if you don't have the right skills or weapon to deal with them.
    Some foes like Flame atranochs would be made immune to fire and your a fire class well you would need to switch to a non fire based ability to defeat. So some foes would be altered to have actual damage immunities that Tes 5 took out.

    So that is what I would do is make foes require some form of preparation. Can't just use every class ability against them. Got to be prepared to have a weapon or skill to handle these types of in game enemies. Instead of just running them over with skills as if they are trash. I would make the mobs less trash and more engaging.
    So I would rework the game to be more like Oblivon mechanically with classes and skills while also bringing back the annoyances that made some foes challenging.
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • SidraWillowsky
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    BRING BACK MORROWIND DICE-ROLL COMBAT.

    PvP would be hilarious.
  • OrderoftheDarkness
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    Off the top of my head:

    1. Use the classic Elder Scrolls skills (e.g. individual schools of Magicka, Blade, Blunt, Unarmored, Athletics, etc.)

    2. Use loosely defined classic classes, such as "Barbarian", "Pilgrim" or "Witch Hunter" where the class bestows a unique twist or gameplay modification but that otherwise acts more as an archetype than an actual constraint on your playstyle.

    3. Some sort of finite skill point system that necessitates you to use a "build" even if how you assemble it remains up to you.

    4. Both hands may equip things separately (e.g. Spell and Sword, Dual Wield, Two-Handed, Dual Wield Magicka, Sword and Shield, Spell and Shield, etc.)

    5. Fewer but more powerful enemies and more tactical consideration when designing encounters (e.g. take out archers/casters first then focus on heavy-hitters)

    6. More of the classic rock-paper-scissors RPG relationships between mages/thieves/warriors (e.g. mages beat warriors, thieves beat mages, warriors beat thieves)

    7. More emphasis on one-on-one combat with blocking, interrupting, and power attacking being more important for all classes, fights revolve around windows of vulnerability and defense rather than executing MMO-style rotations

    8. Armor and damage mitigation is more impactful but healing is reduced to compensate

    9. Overall damage and deadliness is increased in both directions (e.g. for the player and against the player) so fights are less about DPS'ing down health bars but instead manipulating enemies into a vulnerable state and then exploiting it

    Overall, it's a great message, but I specifically like your idea of Witch hunter. What can be its identity? Fire is already an element of DK, it also cancels the archetype of the Inquisitor. Maybe Witch hunter will work with resource depletion.
    P. S. There are also many interesting posts here. I do not claim that need to do it this way, just interesting to read.
    Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on March 27, 2020 9:16AM
  • Rukia541
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    Nothing, combat in ES games is among the most boring of any game.

    ESO is a huge step up.. well until the upcoming travesty changes that.
    ZOS CATERING TO CASUALS EFFECTIVELY SW GALAXYING THEIR OWN GAME.
    RIP ESO IT WAS NICE KNOWING YOU. LIGHT ATTACK 3 TIMES IN A ROW LOL.

    PC NA
    Nightblade
    Searching for my lusty argonian maid
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    BRING BACK MORROWIND DICE-ROLL COMBAT.

    PvP would be hilarious.

    That combat system was horrible, chance to hit miss, chance to hit miss, chance to hit miss and then having a cliff racer appear and have happen well. I'm hoping they don't add something like that to Eso and for good reason.
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • TheFM
    TheFM
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    Rukia541 wrote: »
    Nothing, combat in ES games is among the most boring of any game.

    ESO is a huge step up.. well until the upcoming travesty changes that.

    Agreed. Combat in eso was a breath of fresh air compared to other tes games. Previous tes titles were mind numbingly boring when it came to combat, so much so that it requires 5929858294 mods in order to make it even somewhat engaging.
  • LadyNalcarya
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    No. Vanilla TES combat is quite horrible, borderline unplayable without mods. These games are awesome because of the stories they tell and worldbuilding, and their combat is very bland and clunky. They're also easily exploitable and not very balanced. These things do not matter in single player (especially in moddable single player) but an online game with these mechanics would flop harder than Fallout 76.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • Wifeaggro13
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    What would you do? How would you go about it what mechanics would you change to align with it? Just hypathetical. This isn't about mmorpg mechanics but actual mechanics seen in the other
    Elder Scrolls games what would you add or do to make it align with the Eso mechanics and how would you merge them together?
    Just wondering?
    How would you make this work and what mechanics from any of the last three major elder scrolls games not including blades would you add into the game? What mechanics from Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim would you blend into the gameplay?

    The solution would be to make an MMO not combat like the other single player games. Those were single player game with very little combat dynamic or diversity. Right now Zos has been going backwards since 2016 and the game has gotten worse.
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
    Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    ESO combat is better than previous ES titles in terms of pace and engagement. However... ESO needs to quit working against what made ES popular: Hybrids.

    1. Magicka and Stamina should only be a resource pool. Any scaling to dmg should be taken from skill lvl, weapon lvl, player lvl, passives, and possibly new attributes introduced...

    2. Attributes like Strength & Agility (physcial dmg, stam regen), Wisdom & Willpower (magic dmg, magic regen), Constitution & Fortitude & Spirit (health regen, physical resistance, magic resistance).

    3. It has never made sense that Heavy attacks would restore resources. Stamina example: If you wanted to swing your weapon extra hard to deal more dmg do you really think you're gonna feel refreshed after? Or did you have to exert yourself, use more stamina... I would have suggested adding a stam cost to HA, but I would settle for the proposed changes in PTS.

    4. Get rid of classes... make their skill lines just that, skill lines. To support class builds, modify passives to increase efficacy of each skill line the more you have invested in it (as they basically already are, just may need a few tweaks here and there).

    5. Orrrrrr rebuild classes to revolve around attributes. i.e. Spellsword gets 5% increase in stamina and magica regen, while Witch hunter has 5% increase in spell resistance and physical dmg. Classes should encourage skills, not limit them.
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