The PTS Cycle Needs To Change

llElLoboll

So while I know this'll never happen, I'm gonna offer up an idea anyways. It would seem that a major part of the problem patch to patch is that the dev team doesn't have enough TIME to really use the feedback relayed to them from the PTS. For three patches in a row things have consistently been going downhill, for multiple reasons, but I honestly think that time is one of the bigger issues.

The current cycle of the PTS doesn't give any time at all to really give feedback, have changes made, and then give feedback on said changes. Instead it's more give feedback and then hope that changes made (if the devs make any) are good and that there isn't anything broken. My suggestion is whenever you launch new content that the PTS for the next patch launches at the same time. Like I said, I know this'll never happen, but three to four months of PTS testing and feedback would give a lot of time for the devs to make more incremental changes instead of massive ones. Like buffing certain dots by 220% for example.

This game has possibly the best pvp I've ever seen in gaming but it's dying more and more each patch. Between things like block becoming near useless, dots being gutted, spammables having their damage lowered to much, off heals being absurdly strong, and defiles being almost non existent as well as nerfed into oblivion the pvp of today is horrible compared to what it was in a patch like Elsweyr. Give yourselves more time to get things tested before implementing some of these massive changes.

Kadoin

llElLoboll wrote: »

This game has possibly the best pvp I've ever seen in gaming but it's dying more and more each patch. Between things like block becoming near useless, dots being gutted, spammables having their damage lowered to much, off heals being absurdly strong, and defiles being almost non existent as well as nerfed into oblivion the pvp of today is horrible compared to what it was in a patch like Elsweyr. Give yourselves more time to get things tested before implementing some of these massive changes.

...

Mr_Walker

llElLoboll wrote: »

This game has possibly the best pvp I've ever seen in gaming

I love my eso pvp, but not even close.

The_Old_Goat

Mr_Walker wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

This game has possibly the best pvp I've ever seen in gaming

I love my eso pvp, but not even close.

And which games do you feel the pvp is better in?

Major_Lag

llElLoboll wrote: »

So while I know this'll never happen, I'm gonna offer up an idea anyways. It would seem that a major part of the problem patch to patch is that the dev team doesn't have enough TIME to really use the feedback relayed to them from the PTS. For three patches in a row things have consistently been going downhill, for multiple reasons, but I honestly think that time is one of the bigger issues.

A lot of the PTS feedback is of the following kind: "the proposed changes to ability X (or set Y) are an excessive overnerf/overbuff, these values should be adjusted by Z %".
It really does not get any simpler than that. It's literally just a matter of adjusting a few numbers in the game's item or ability database. It does not involve changing how the ability/set actually functions internally, just increasing or decreasing its damage/healing/whatever.
So "they don't have the time to implement these changes" is not a valid argument in those particular cases.

No, the way I see it, the real reason is quite a bit different: ZOS has its own agenda in terms of changes that they will be making - and once the new update hits week 1 of PTS, the great majority of those "proposed" changes are actually set in stone, regardless of any constructive feedback provided by the testers.
These changes are non-negotiable, because ZOS never intends to change the changes, if you know what I mean.

This even applies to "proposed" changes which everyone unequivocally agrees are an incredibly stupid idea, such as the changes to Surge in Scalebreaker (when the Sorcerer class lost class access to the Major Sorcery buff!). That moronic change went through, despite extensive complaints from Sorc mains on PTS, and was only reverted 3 months later when next update launched. Just one example of many.

In the rare cases when there is an extreme backlash against a particular change (cast times on shields and the Iceheart nerf, to name 2 examples), only then does ZOS relent - presumably because going through with these changes would be a total PR disaster, so as a form of "PR damage control" they begrudgingly drop all of (or at least part of) the proposed change.

TL;dr: While PTS does have its meaningful use cases (testing sets, parsing on dummies, experimenting with rotations, etc.), providing any actual feedback is a complete waste of time since ZOS will summarily ignore virtually all of it.

Kiralyn2000

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

This game has possibly the best pvp I've ever seen in gaming

I love my eso pvp, but not even close.

And which games do you feel the pvp is better in?

I would think that nearly any pvp-only game, designed & focused from the ground up for pvp, would be better than the so-so pvp minigames found duct-taped to the side of PvE MMOs.

llElLoboll

Major_Lag wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

So while I know this'll never happen, I'm gonna offer up an idea anyways. It would seem that a major part of the problem patch to patch is that the dev team doesn't have enough TIME to really use the feedback relayed to them from the PTS. For three patches in a row things have consistently been going downhill, for multiple reasons, but I honestly think that time is one of the bigger issues.

A lot of the PTS feedback is of the following kind: "the proposed changes to ability X (or set Y) are an excessive overnerf/overbuff, these values should be adjusted by Z %".
It really does not get any simpler than that. It's literally just a matter of adjusting a few numbers in the game's item or ability database. It does not involve changing how the ability/set actually functions internally, just increasing or decreasing its damage/healing/whatever.
So "they don't have the time to implement these changes" is not a valid argument in those particular cases.

No, the way I see it, the real reason is quite a bit different: ZOS has its own agenda in terms of changes that they will be making - and once the new update hits week 1 of PTS, the great majority of those "proposed" changes are actually set in stone, regardless of any constructive feedback provided by the testers.
These changes are non-negotiable, because ZOS never intends to change the changes, if you know what I mean.

This even applies to "proposed" changes which everyone unequivocally agrees are an incredibly stupid idea, such as the changes to Surge in Scalebreaker (when the Sorcerer class lost class access to the Major Sorcery buff!). That moronic change went through, despite extensive complaints from Sorc mains on PTS, and was only reverted 3 months later when next update launched. Just one example of many.

In the rare cases when there is an extreme backlash against a particular change (cast times on shields and the Iceheart nerf, to name 2 examples), only then does ZOS relent - presumably because going through with these changes would be a total PR disaster, so as a form of "PR damage control" they begrudgingly drop all of (or at least part of) the proposed change.

TL;dr: While PTS does have its meaningful use cases (testing sets, parsing on dummies, experimenting with rotations, etc.), providing any actual feedback is a complete waste of time since ZOS will summarily ignore virtually all of it.

I completely agree, I also think the duration of the PTS should be extended though. Not that it really matters in the end.

Septimus_Magna

llElLoboll wrote: »

So while I know this'll never happen, I'm gonna offer up an idea anyways. It would seem that a major part of the problem patch to patch is that the dev team doesn't have enough TIME to really use the feedback relayed to them from the PTS. For three patches in a row things have consistently been going downhill, for multiple reasons, but I honestly think that time is one of the bigger issues.

The current cycle of the PTS doesn't give any time at all to really give feedback, have changes made, and then give feedback on said changes. Instead it's more give feedback and then hope that changes made (if the devs make any) are good and that there isn't anything broken. My suggestion is whenever you launch new content that the PTS for the next patch launches at the same time. Like I said, I know this'll never happen, but three to four months of PTS testing and feedback would give a lot of time for the devs to make more incremental changes instead of massive ones. Like buffing certain dots by 220% for example.

This game has possibly the best pvp I've ever seen in gaming but it's dying more and more each patch. Between things like block becoming near useless, dots being gutted, spammables having their damage lowered to much, off heals being absurdly strong, and defiles being almost non existent as well as nerfed into oblivion the pvp of today is horrible compared to what it was in a patch like Elsweyr. Give yourselves more time to get things tested before implementing some of these massive changes.

The problem is that if you extend the PTS duration it will shorten development time for the next update. Add three months to the PTS and we're only getting two updates each year. In my opinion the PTS should mainly be used to fix major bugs or adjust values, leave the small bugs for after the update has released.

Besides, the PTS testers are not content creators so while ZOS can hear our feedback it doesnt mean it matches the direction they want to take the game. I completely agree with incremental changes instead of massive 50% buffs or nerfs because you risk of making something OP or useless. PTS should be used to fine tune the values, often the values are adjusted only once before the update goes live.