Mag warden - updated feedback

ESO_Nightingale

CeroSerotonin wrote: »

Imagine if we could use Frozen Gates to teleport ourselves.

no i don't think that's a good idea. just a movement buff to bird of prey instead of minor berserk once we shift it's minor berserk damage into other places on the class. the skill sucks because it gives such a powerful damage buff, but at the same time we have to slot it for that damage buff instead of for it's actual active skill benefit being really useful.

ESO_Nightingale

Nerouyn wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I love playing warden, probably because i like nature based magic in most games.

I love their theme and visuals. But hate them mechanically.

Aelorin wrote: »

- The bear: Not really good for a magwarden, change it to a spriggan with a ranged magic attack.

The bear is one of the few abilities I am presently mostly happy with.

My only criticism in relation to the bear is the Eternal Guardian morph. It never dies anyway, so the free cast once a minute is pointless. Since the other morph does physical damage and Deep Fissure doesn't debuff physical resistance, that's not really an option.

Aelorin wrote: »

- The only that i do not use is Nature's grasp: Really hard to get this one off in PvP.
- I like all other healing skills

Prior to Arctic Blast becoming our one stop shop for damage, cc and healing, Budding Seeds was the only heal I bothered using.

The others are all useless. Well not literally useless but useful only in such very specific circumstances which almost never arise as to be nearly totally useless.

This is incredibly boring especially if you want to play a healer.

Lughlongarm wrote: »

It is false that wardens can PvP with only Arctic blast as a primary heal

What's false is your claim that I said anything about pvp. I didn't. Like many players I totally ignore that part of the game.

I'm breezing through all PvE content - including solo'ing "group" events in "public" dungeons using only this for healing and that definitely feels broken.

The biggest problem with mag warden is that so many of their abilities are useless / gimicky so in effect you only have a tiny pool of abilities and this means you have no options.

Making it the polar opposite of the single player TES games where you're drowning in options.

This ability rendering other heals superfluous magnifies that effect.

Exactly. I believe this morph should not heal, all it is, is a blight on the skill because the damage and stun portions (which need to be focused on as soon as humanly possible) are stunted by it. It's main job designed by zos is as a tank heal because of it's base morph. That's fine that it morphs from that skill, but it doesn't need to keep the heal at all because we don't want to change polar wind anymore. It's an amazing tank heal morph which now also has flavour because we rallied for arctic wind to gain the old dps field that arctic blast once had, while arctic blast has the same general morph effect as gripping shards when we talk about how the skill is seen by tanks.

A DPS's Healing should be focused into green balance. Because that skill line is designed to be for magicka and stamina scaling healing.

The point I'm trying to push is that i don't think tanks need this arctic blast morph and i don't think DPS need the heal. And therefore, because they don't need it, and because it's currently making warden stupidly tanky so much so that I've been told it's too much by some players. We as magicka dps don't need healing on our stun skill. We need it to focus on damage, and for it to work with our deep fissure in a combo. THAT is our problem. Yeah sure the heal is nice. But we need a damage skill with a stun attached to it.

This is why i suggest AB4.0. soon I'll be working on a skill design document to give people visuals on what i mean. I cannot give you the full picture of what i mean through a tooltip alone.

thadjarvis

Nerouyn wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I love playing warden, probably because i like nature based magic in most games.

Budding Seeds [Green Balance] was the only heal I bothered using.

The others are all useless. Well not literally useless but useful only in such very specific circumstances which almost never arise as to be nearly totally useless.

This is incredibly boring especially if you want to play a healer.

They are a super powerful healer, all SIX skills are useful for a Mag DD in some context, and FOUR scale with stamina, and has unique utility for tanking. No other class healing comes close to that versatility or power (major mending uptime) across roles and contexts.

Tree Ulimate

• PvP stam/mag/healer/tank: cheap self and group save and doesn't immobilize you like templar/resto (I see them often just get focused and deleted after casting)
• Great for 3 DPS tanking
• Great for healer as primary or secondary low cost "o darn" ultimate to pair with Warhorn, Barrier, or damage ultimate
• Same for DD doing off healing or to put down before rezzing a healer/tank in a messy situation

Fungal

• All contexts: powerful burst. on a crit in PvE everyone but a tank goes from 10% to 100% health...
• Group sustain
• Strongest solo instant burst heal option for DD (PvE and PvP)
• Spores: the only AOE burst stam heal

Seeds

1. PvE tank/healer: group HoT, synergy for alkosh/lokk, big (though delayed or double cast) AOE heal, mag skill Olo placer, keeps major mending rolling, proc's sustain passive (super low group resource cost when summing ally undaunted command, nature's gift, and skill's cost)
2. PvE mag 3 DPS ok use for similar reasons and best way to keep toughness up
3. Pollen is a super cheap pure synergy cast particularly useful spamming synergies in a stam heavy raid (lokk uptime)
4. PvP Major Defile

Living Vines

• Trellis is a unique one skill slot HoT-like/burst combo to PvE and PvP DD's. You can run this as only defensive skill in PvE and tackle some knarly stuff. PvP it's not enough on it's own, but coupled with BRP resto ward is usually enough.
• Leeching is great on PvE tank for HoTy mitigation and to spread toughness; some PvE healer/DD's use this situationally as well. Targeting is annoying as healer though

Lotus

1. Useful as a HoT used in vMA, solo, and 3 DPS. Can run Lotus alone or with shield in most scenarios. Duration double of Trellis and the proc controlled by LA rather than getting hit is better.
2. HA works as a burst heal
3. Keeps major mending rolling
4. The sustain from Nature's gift in groups acts as a 2nd netch (or replacement) if there's persistent incoming damage
5. Main issue is in even 4 player groups, it doesn't permit a reasonable group toughness uptime
6. PvP very strong healing source on HA builds due to heal itself and major mending proc. Eg Lotus+Resolving Vigor+Trees is really high (if not highest) on a stam
7. Betty+Lotus+Disastrous Bloody+Bond with Nature+Mag/Health/Spell-resist potion = significant incoming HoT and high health/mitigation

Grasp: yes it's very niche, but it's used and kinda a fun-factor skill.

You might not have tried them out enough? I just learned how to utilize Lotus well in PvE and have played with these skills for a long time.

Iskiab

thadjarvis wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I love playing warden, probably because i like nature based magic in most games.

Budding Seeds [Green Balance] was the only heal I bothered using.

The others are all useless. Well not literally useless but useful only in such very specific circumstances which almost never arise as to be nearly totally useless.

This is incredibly boring especially if you want to play a healer.

They are a super powerful healer, all SIX skills are useful for a Mag DD in some context, and FOUR scale with stamina, and has unique utility for tanking. No other class healing comes close to that versatility or power (major mending uptime) across roles and contexts.

Tree Ulimate

• PvP stam/mag/healer/tank: cheap self and group save and doesn't immobilize you like templar/resto (I see them often just get focused and deleted after casting)
• Great for 3 DPS tanking
• Great for healer as primary or secondary low cost "o darn" ultimate to pair with Warhorn, Barrier, or damage ultimate
• Same for DD doing off healing or to put down before rezzing a healer/tank in a messy situation

Fungal

• All contexts: powerful burst. on a crit in PvE everyone but a tank goes from 10% to 100% health...
• Group sustain
• Strongest solo instant burst heal option for DD (PvE and PvP)
• Spores: the only AOE burst stam heal

Seeds

1. PvE tank/healer: group HoT, synergy for alkosh/lokk, big (though delayed or double cast) AOE heal, mag skill Olo placer, keeps major mending rolling, proc's sustain passive (super low group resource cost when summing ally undaunted command, nature's gift, and skill's cost)
2. PvE mag 3 DPS ok use for similar reasons and best way to keep toughness up
3. Pollen is a super cheap pure synergy cast particularly useful spamming synergies in a stam heavy raid (lokk uptime)
4. PvP Major Defile

Living Vines

• Trellis is a unique one skill slot HoT-like/burst combo to PvE and PvP DD's. You can run this as only defensive skill in PvE and tackle some knarly stuff. PvP it's not enough on it's own, but coupled with BRP resto ward is usually enough.
• Leeching is great on PvE tank for HoTy mitigation and to spread toughness; some PvE healer/DD's use this situationally as well. Targeting is annoying as healer though

Lotus

1. Useful as a HoT used in vMA, solo, and 3 DPS. Can run Lotus alone or with shield in most scenarios. Duration double of Trellis and the proc controlled by LA rather than getting hit is better.
2. HA works as a burst heal
3. Keeps major mending rolling
4. The sustain from Nature's gift in groups acts as a 2nd netch (or replacement) if there's persistent incoming damage
5. Main issue is in even 4 player groups, it doesn't permit a reasonable group toughness uptime
6. PvP very strong healing source on HA builds due to heal itself and major mending proc. Eg Lotus+Resolving Vigor+Trees is really high (if not highest) on a stam
7. Betty+Lotus+Disastrous Bloody+Bond with Nature+Mag/Health/Spell-resist potion = significant incoming HoT and high health/mitigation

Grasp: yes it's very niche, but it's used and kinda a fun-factor skill.

You might not have tried them out enough? I just learned how to utilize Lotus well in PvE and have played with these skills for a long time.

I like lotus too, it meshes really well with symbiosis if you haven’t tried it.

Only thing I don’t like about is it’s a bit expensive. In one build I switched out inner light for lotus and found the cost really high. To keep the buff up it costs an extra mag regen glyph.

So lotus heal vs a spell power glyph and the loss of the extra magicka from inner light. I still haven’t decided if it’s worth it.

I approached it from a pvp perspective so it might be easier to maintain on pve since being able to heavy is easier in pve.

By the way... has anyone checked whether it’s worth going 75+ in thaumaturge for the exploiter passive as a magdps? I know most people in pve use the bear, but thaumaturge buffs northern storm damage. I’m not sure if northern storm is an option.

Since northern storm applies chilled and synergizes with the new crit damage bonus I’m wondering if it’s an option in pve.

Edit - something like this, just spitballing: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=213882

Runefang

Iskiab wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I love playing warden, probably because i like nature based magic in most games.

Budding Seeds [Green Balance] was the only heal I bothered using.

The others are all useless. Well not literally useless but useful only in such very specific circumstances which almost never arise as to be nearly totally useless.

This is incredibly boring especially if you want to play a healer.

They are a super powerful healer, all SIX skills are useful for a Mag DD in some context, and FOUR scale with stamina, and has unique utility for tanking. No other class healing comes close to that versatility or power (major mending uptime) across roles and contexts.

Tree Ulimate

• PvP stam/mag/healer/tank: cheap self and group save and doesn't immobilize you like templar/resto (I see them often just get focused and deleted after casting)
• Great for 3 DPS tanking
• Great for healer as primary or secondary low cost "o darn" ultimate to pair with Warhorn, Barrier, or damage ultimate
• Same for DD doing off healing or to put down before rezzing a healer/tank in a messy situation

Fungal

• All contexts: powerful burst. on a crit in PvE everyone but a tank goes from 10% to 100% health...
• Group sustain
• Strongest solo instant burst heal option for DD (PvE and PvP)
• Spores: the only AOE burst stam heal

Seeds

1. PvE tank/healer: group HoT, synergy for alkosh/lokk, big (though delayed or double cast) AOE heal, mag skill Olo placer, keeps major mending rolling, proc's sustain passive (super low group resource cost when summing ally undaunted command, nature's gift, and skill's cost)
2. PvE mag 3 DPS ok use for similar reasons and best way to keep toughness up
3. Pollen is a super cheap pure synergy cast particularly useful spamming synergies in a stam heavy raid (lokk uptime)
4. PvP Major Defile

Living Vines

• Trellis is a unique one skill slot HoT-like/burst combo to PvE and PvP DD's. You can run this as only defensive skill in PvE and tackle some knarly stuff. PvP it's not enough on it's own, but coupled with BRP resto ward is usually enough.
• Leeching is great on PvE tank for HoTy mitigation and to spread toughness; some PvE healer/DD's use this situationally as well. Targeting is annoying as healer though

Lotus

1. Useful as a HoT used in vMA, solo, and 3 DPS. Can run Lotus alone or with shield in most scenarios. Duration double of Trellis and the proc controlled by LA rather than getting hit is better.
2. HA works as a burst heal
3. Keeps major mending rolling
4. The sustain from Nature's gift in groups acts as a 2nd netch (or replacement) if there's persistent incoming damage
5. Main issue is in even 4 player groups, it doesn't permit a reasonable group toughness uptime
6. PvP very strong healing source on HA builds due to heal itself and major mending proc. Eg Lotus+Resolving Vigor+Trees is really high (if not highest) on a stam
7. Betty+Lotus+Disastrous Bloody+Bond with Nature+Mag/Health/Spell-resist potion = significant incoming HoT and high health/mitigation

Grasp: yes it's very niche, but it's used and kinda a fun-factor skill.

You might not have tried them out enough? I just learned how to utilize Lotus well in PvE and have played with these skills for a long time.

I like lotus too, it meshes really well with symbiosis if you haven’t tried it.

Only thing I don’t like about is it’s a bit expensive. In one build I switched out inner light for lotus and found the cost really high. To keep the buff up it costs an extra mag regen glyph.

So lotus heal vs a spell power glyph and the loss of the extra magicka from inner light. I still haven’t decided if it’s worth it.

I approached it from a pvp perspective so it might be easier to maintain on pve since being able to heavy is easier in pve.

By the way... has anyone checked whether it’s worth going 75+ in thaumaturge for the exploiter passive as a magdps? I know most people in pve use the bear, but thaumaturge buffs northern storm damage. I’m not sure if northern storm is an option.

Since northern storm applies chilled and synergizes with the new crit damage bonus I’m wondering if it’s an option in pve.

Edit - something like this, just spitballing: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=213882

I’ve been play testing to find the best set up over the last few days and on the trial dummy I consistently do better with 75 in Thaumaturge. Given you can easily off balance enemies in dungeons yourself and in trials they’ll be off balance pretty much on cool down I think it’s worth keeping.

I doubt Northern Storm is a viable choice compared to the bear. The bear just does too much damage.

In dungeons/parsing run a frost glyph back bar. In trials if there is anybody running an asylum staff (pretty much all dks) then switch back to berserker glyph back bar. Obviously trash fights should have berserker glyph.

I only ever run static rotations and so far this one has worked best:
Fissure > Winters Revenge > Unstable
Fissure > Soul Trap > Fetcher > Degeneration
Fissure > Netch or Trap > Mystic Orb

Curious to know if anybody has a better static rotation

WrathOfInnos

@Runefang If you don’t mind it having 21 steps, this is the best mag Warden static rotation I have found.

Runefang

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@Runefang If you don’t mind it having 21 steps, this is the best mag Warden static rotation I have found.

Thanks, I’ll give it a go. Are you running channeled acceleration on that rotation then?

WrathOfInnos

Runefang wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@Runefang If you don’t mind it having 21 steps, this is the best mag Warden static rotation I have found.

Thanks, I’ll give it a go. Are you running channeled acceleration on that rotation then?

Yes, I’ve been using Channeled Accel in Sunspire and only recasting during downtime. Seems to be working well there, not sure if it would work on a dummy, since Barbed Trap is typically better there. Could maybe use Barbed instead of one Scalding in that rotation.