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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Are dots a PVE thing ?
Karmen
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This is clearly a PVP asking.
Since everybody in pvp is using purge or shields or huge heals like vigor to cancel dots, I think it's a legit question. And it seems actually, in 2020, people in pvp stopped to use it efficiently to kill people. bleeding, poisoining... flame dmg... If dot isnt like 3-5k per sec, is that useful today ?
Since everybody in pvp is using purge or shields or huge heals like vigor to cancel dots, I think it's a legit question. And it seems actually, in 2020, people in pvp stopped to use it efficiently to kill people. bleeding, poisoining... flame dmg... If dot isnt like 3-5k per sec, is that useful today ?
I am Carmen.
For Bosmers, war is only a sport
For Bosmers, war is only a sport
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Now they pretty much are, ever since the burst players , and tank players got their knickers in a knot about dots being a viable alternative to burst , they got nerfed into oblivion.
This is the only mmo I have ever seen that completely craps all over dots at all times, in most there have always been dot builds and burst builds, dots were more survivable and required time to deal damage, and burst were less survivable but hit harder. In this game its burst or bust atm, because 17 k over 12 seconds is totally unacceptable, but instant 14 k burst from s tealth is totally fine.4 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now they pretty much are, ever since the burst players , and tank players got their knickers in a knot about dots being a viable alternative to burst , they got nerfed into oblivion.
This is the only mmo I have ever seen that completely craps all over dots at all times, in most there have always been dot builds and burst builds, dots were more survivable and required time to deal damage, and burst were less survivable but hit harder. In this game its burst or bust atm, because 17 k over 12 seconds is totally unacceptable, but instant 14 k burst from s tealth is totally fine.
What he said. PVPers complained so much about DOTs that ZOS nerfed them into Oblivion and raised the cost at the same time. Heck, I rarely use them in PVE now. Cost too much, do little damage.3 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »Now they pretty much are, ever since the burst players , and tank players got their knickers in a knot about dots being a viable alternative to burst , they got nerfed into oblivion.
This is the only mmo I have ever seen that completely craps all over dots at all times, in most there have always been dot builds and burst builds, dots were more survivable and required time to deal damage, and burst were less survivable but hit harder. In this game its burst or bust atm, because 17 k over 12 seconds is totally unacceptable, but instant 14 k burst from s tealth is totally fine.
What he said. PVPers complained so much about DOTs that ZOS nerfed them into Oblivion and raised the cost at the same time. Heck, I rarely use them in PVE now. Cost too much, do little damage.
It wasnt even most pvp players, it was the small 1337 burst players who were mad there was finally a counter to their tank builds, and were mad they couldnt charge into a group of ppl with impunity. They were mad they actually had to build to defend against something else aside burst . My main toon was shelved when they ruined dots. For pve and pvp.2 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What the heck at people saying it because of pvp only.
Plenty of people who did dungeons and trials complained that the damage over time abilities were so boring to use and so superior that they always needed to be on the bar.1 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most of my builds now are Single Target. Takes longer to run through mobs but I don't run out of resources as I would using the cost heavy DOTs.0 -
Wise_Will✭✭✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »What the heck at people saying it because of pvp only.
Plenty of people who did dungeons and trials complained that the damage over time abilities were so boring to use and so superior that they always needed to be on the bar.
never once seen thisXBOX EU/PC EU8 -
Heimpai✭✭✭✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »Now they pretty much are, ever since the burst players , and tank players got their knickers in a knot about dots being a viable alternative to burst , they got nerfed into oblivion.
This is the only mmo I have ever seen that completely craps all over dots at all times, in most there have always been dot builds and burst builds, dots were more survivable and required time to deal damage, and burst were less survivable but hit harder. In this game its burst or bust atm, because 17 k over 12 seconds is totally unacceptable, but instant 14 k burst from s tealth is totally fine.
What he said. PVPers complained so much about DOTs that ZOS nerfed them into Oblivion and raised the cost at the same time. Heck, I rarely use them in PVE now. Cost too much, do little damage.
Even when they buffed DoT's you could still out heal them, no need for a purge1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »What the heck at people saying it because of pvp only.
Plenty of people who did dungeons and trials complained that the damage over time abilities were so boring to use and so superior that they always needed to be on the bar.
Yeah cuz spamming one ability 3 times, applying 1 or 2 dots, rinse and repeat is totally creative gameplay right? People are just not used to having more than 1 option in this game, and when dots were finally comparable to burst, ppl lost their minds. Sad really.0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think it depends on the nature of the DoT.
If it’s a DoT that can be countered (ie one that is location specific and can be cancelled by stepping out of it, or which can be purged/removed by all classes) then I’m all for them being powerful. Players (whether PvP or PvE) will learn to recognise the effects and can employ a counter or accept the effect. Offensive builds should be able to apply lots of these while defensive builds should be able to counter them with player skill.
DoTs should not be as effective (on a damage per second level) as single damage skills but should be slightly cheaper to apply than repeated uses of the spammable.
If the DoT can’t be countered, then it should not be very significant as this negates the benefits of player skill.
Ultimately in PvP it’s as much about what you have had to sacrifice in order to use a skill as what the skill itself does.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »Now they pretty much are, ever since the burst players , and tank players got their knickers in a knot about dots being a viable alternative to burst , they got nerfed into oblivion.
This is the only mmo I have ever seen that completely craps all over dots at all times, in most there have always been dot builds and burst builds, dots were more survivable and required time to deal damage, and burst were less survivable but hit harder. In this game its burst or bust atm, because 17 k over 12 seconds is totally unacceptable, but instant 14 k burst from s tealth is totally fine.
What he said. PVPers complained so much about DOTs that ZOS nerfed them into Oblivion and raised the cost at the same time. Heck, I rarely use them in PVE now. Cost too much, do little damage.
Even when they buffed DoT's you could still out heal them, no need for a purge
EXACTLY this. I was able to outheal 10 dots on me most of the time, and somehow THAT amount of damage is unacceptable, but 15 k - 20 k insta crits are ok? Its laughable.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think it depends on the nature of the DoT.
If it’s a DoT that can be countered (ie one that is location specific and can be cancelled by stepping out of it, or which can be purged/removed by all classes) then I’m all for them being powerful. Players (whether PvP or PvE) will learn to recognise the effects and can employ a counter or accept the effect. Offensive builds should be able to apply lots of these while defensive builds should be able to counter them with player skill.
DoTs should not be as effective (on a damage per second level) as single damage skills but should be slightly cheaper to apply than repeated uses of the spammable.
If the DoT can’t be countered, then it should not be very significant as this negates the benefits of player skill.
Ultimately in PvP it’s as much about what you have had to sacrifice in order to use a skill as what the skill itself does.
So 15-20 k insta crits are ok, but 17 k over 12 seconds isnt? Yeah thats not bias or one sided at all.2 -
mague✭✭✭✭✭This is clearly a PVP asking.
Since everybody in pvp is using purge or shields or huge heals like vigor to cancel dots, I think it's a legit question. And it seems actually, in 2020, people in pvp stopped to use it efficiently to kill people. bleeding, poisoining... flame dmg... If dot isnt like 3-5k per sec, is that useful today ?
Wrong assumption. It is everywhere in PvP. It is pressure on your pools and there is a reason why people sometimes go out of LoS.
Only in highly optimized groups it is "not existing" because of the heal/purge spot. Everyone else has at least one tick of a dot on his death recap.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. My builds still are DoT builds and they are the only thing that can truly break a stalemate in PvP.
My tooltips for mag skills are below 10-22K depending on what class, skill, and build.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Groundbased DOTs are largely a PVE thing outside of chokepoints and siege. Something about PVPers mostly being smarter than NPCs and walking right out of them.
As for other DOTs, essentially ZOS tried to standardize skills and created an overbuffed DOT meta with Scalebreaker. Then they realized (after plenty of PTS warnings) "Oh, hey, we made DOTs so powerful everyone is using them" and changed everything again for Dragonhold.
Because why change things in moderation when one can inflict wild swings of the meta pendulum on one's playerbase?0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is clearly a PVP asking.
Since everybody in pvp is using purge or shields or huge heals like vigor to cancel dots, I think it's a legit question. And it seems actually, in 2020, people in pvp stopped to use it efficiently to kill people. bleeding, poisoining... flame dmg... If dot isnt like 3-5k per sec, is that useful today ?
Wrong assumption. It is everywhere in PvP. It is pressure on your pools and there is a reason why people sometimes go out of LoS.
Only in highly optimized groups it is "not existing" because of the heal/purge spot. Everyone else has at least one tick of a dot on his death recap.
500 damage per second isnt any form of pressure worth even mentioning.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
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So 15-20 k insta crits are ok, but 17 k over 12 seconds isnt? Yeah thats not bias or one sided at all.
It's because they know that DoTs are mostly a mag thing and want to keep mag down so they can run their extreme damage setups with no downsides. The same people also cry about healing usually. Coincidence?1 -
Ladislao✭✭✭✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »Now they pretty much are, ever since the burst players , and tank players got their knickers in a knot about dots being a viable alternative to burst , they got nerfed into oblivion.
This is the only mmo I have ever seen that completely craps all over dots at all times, in most there have always been dot builds and burst builds, dots were more survivable and required time to deal damage, and burst were less survivable but hit harder. In this game its burst or bust atm, because 17 k over 12 seconds is totally unacceptable, but instant 14 k burst from s tealth is totally fine.
What he said. PVPers complained so much about DOTs that ZOS nerfed them into Oblivion and raised the cost at the same time. Heck, I rarely use them in PVE now. Cost too much, do little damage.
I do not remember any complain about them before Scalebreaker patch.Everything is viable0 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭At the moment dots are definitely a PVE thing, and the game is better for it. Fire and forget mechanics have no place in PvP."I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4332 -
arun_rajputb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I don't know what you guys are saying. DoTs are completely and utterly a huge thing in PvE. Magicka/Stam DK hit hard and are heavily based on DoTs. In fact, pretty much all magicka chars run blockade and stam classes run endless hail which are big DoTs. That's just two amoungst many.
Anyone not using DoTs is doing low damage in PvE.1 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I want to use them on my Mag Necro just fits my theme but they don't do enough damage to be worth slotting.Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.0 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Depends. Some dots are not even used in pve.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Depends. Some dots are not even used in pve.
Exactly,. they are utterly useless now.JanTanhide wrote: »Now they pretty much are, ever since the burst players , and tank players got their knickers in a knot about dots being a viable alternative to burst , they got nerfed into oblivion.
This is the only mmo I have ever seen that completely craps all over dots at all times, in most there have always been dot builds and burst builds, dots were more survivable and required time to deal damage, and burst were less survivable but hit harder. In this game its burst or bust atm, because 17 k over 12 seconds is totally unacceptable, but instant 14 k burst from s tealth is totally fine.
What he said. PVPers complained so much about DOTs that ZOS nerfed them into Oblivion and raised the cost at the same time. Heck, I rarely use them in PVE now. Cost too much, do little damage.
I do not remember any complain about them before Scalebreaker patch.
If there were pre scalebreaker itd have been fine but theyve been nerfed to be WEAKER than then. As in, completely useless.1
