Cast time on Soul siphon

Vietfox

You guys said that you wanted to add a cast time on ultis because you found unfair to get hit by multiple hits within a second, fine... (it is not fine, but whatever). But why the hell is Soul siphon keeping the cast time as well? Can i kill anybody with that?
Remove it ffs.

Rianai

Someone died to Soul Leech i guess and we can't have players dieing in PvP. Except for nbs trying to cast their defensive ult apparently.

Vietfox

Rianai wrote: »

Someone died to Soul Leech i guess and we can't have players dieing in PvP. Except for nbs trying to cast their defensive ult apparently.

I completely forgot about the synergy since i usually play solo lol.

tsaescishoeshiner

It's annoying that it can't be reliably block-canceled, too.

Why does an expensive burst-heal ult need a cast time?

Iskiab

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It's annoying that it can't be reliably block-canceled, too.

Why does an expensive burst-heal ult need a cast time?

Not only that, but it’s interruptable by some abilities. Leap will interrupt it for example.

The cast time change really changed the ability from top tier to trash tier in one patch. It will be worse after the patch, if you cloak and then cast it now you get the spell power buff on it plus can protect yourself while casting it. After the patch people will be able to target you in cloak with single target abilities and leap.

Even as a healer I went with soul tether, it’s better. So cloak - soul siphon wasting 2 seconds and then getting interrupted before being able to heal? Hell no. A one second cast time on a healing ultimate is just stupid.

brandonv516

Vietfox wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Someone died to Soul Leech i guess and we can't have players dieing in PvP. Except for nbs trying to cast their defensive ult apparently.

I completely forgot about the synergy since i usually play solo lol.

Yeah but most people don't even know how to properly use the synergy (you have to actually aim at an enemy to activate it). Not to mention it's not contributing to your own burst, so their reasoning doesn't really fit here.

Honestly, chalk it up to the same situation that Blastbones is in right now. They made a change to the base skill but forgot about one of the morphs. People have been vocal enough though including myself.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502765/please-consider-removing-the-cast-time-on-soul-siphon#latest

exeeter702

brandonv516 wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Someone died to Soul Leech i guess and we can't have players dieing in PvP. Except for nbs trying to cast their defensive ult apparently.

I completely forgot about the synergy since i usually play solo lol.

Yeah but most people don't even know how to properly use the synergy (you have to actually aim at an enemy to activate it). Not to mention it's not contributing to your own burst, so their reasoning doesn't really fit here.

Honestly, chalk it up to the same situation that Blastbones is in right now. They made a change to the base skill but forgot about one of the morphs. People have been vocal enough though including myself.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502765/please-consider-removing-the-cast-time-on-soul-siphon#latest

I think they knew about soul siphon and intended for it to fit the same cast time bill. If I mat play devils advocate or try to demonstrate zos' logic here. Soul siphon without a doubt is the most potent group healing ultimate in the game in terms of raw tool tip and effects. Massive burst, massive hot, 4 seconds of major vit, and a respectable synergy for more healing on top of undaunted passive synergy benefits. I would almost say it's actually more healing in a single instance than you would ever need most of the time.

Rewind a the game a number of patches ago and look at the change trajectory this ultimate went through....

Used to deal damage
Used to not heal the caster
Changed to heal the caster
Massively increased radius and tooltip values

This ult can single handedly bring back an entire group from the brink in one second full stop.

The idea behind the cast time nerf is that zos isnt saying you should use this selfishly as a defensive ult when getting piled up on. They are saying "look, if you let the nb in back free cast and use this ult uncontested, your group coordinated combo might fail to wipe the opposing group out. If you jump on the nb who is primed with this ult, you shut down that effective option his group has.

No one is going to see the nb in back doing this ult and reactively interrupt them unless a sorc is sitting there waiting patiently with crushing shock ready to go. The only time the cast time nerf really stings is when you are all piled up on in a cluster *** and this ult fails to go off because in that .5 second window, you ate lethal from being focused hard or took a stun (that was going to hit you anyways), 99 percent of the time getting interrupted out of this ult is purely collateral from taking focused pressure with stuns being thrown out anyway. Again, soul siphon used to be a measly 15 meters, and was buffed to 28. Zos is basically saying if you want to reliably use this loaded as *** healing ultimate, create safe space and earn its potent benefits. If you are going to sit there and face tank a group and try to hammer on this ult, you are going to have a hard time. That's why every other healing ult in the game is either a slower heal, heals for less or fewer targets, roots you in place and forces you to channel, or has half of its potency tied to price and a damage shield. No other healing ult is as expedient with raw healing.

And for what it's worth, most ults dont ignore los, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure lights champ, remembrance need line of sight to effect recipients, Trees and absorption field obviously are ground placed. Barrier and magma shell might ignore los as well.

That being said I would still give up the synergy for the .5 second cast time, but I dont consider the ult to be the worst healing ult in the game, and would take it over remembrance, barrier and trees anyday. Lights champion and soul siphon are frequently interchanged on my magblade, sometimes I even slot both.

Rianai

I doubt ZOS was thinking that much when adding the cast time.

It might have been more powerful than other healing ults, but it is also more expensive than those and nbs don't offer much else to a grp and were always rather niche in support roles compared to magplar or warden.

And due to it's short duration you can't really use it preemptively and hiding safely in the back only works when zerging - and balance is pretty irrelevant there because it is just a number's game anyway. Even if nerfs were warranted - which i don't agree with - anything else would have been a better solution. Those cast times on ults were a bad idea in general, but putting it onto an emergency skill is some next level stupidity.

exeeter702

Rianai wrote: »

I doubt ZOS was thinking that much when adding the cast time.

It might have been more powerful than other healing ults, but it is also more expensive than those and nbs don't offer much else to a grp and were always rather niche in support roles compared to magplar or warden.

And due to it's short duration you can't really use it preemptively and hiding safely in the back only works when zerging - and balance is pretty irrelevant there because it is just a number's game anyway. Even if nerfs were warranted - which i don't agree with - anything else would have been a better solution. Those cast times on ults were a bad idea in general, but putting it onto an emergency skill is some next level stupidity.

Naw it has nothing to do with zerg healing, I resent that comment more than you realize lol.. casting back simply meaning casting it when not focused, of which a nb moreso than a templar and warden is very capable of creating distance for a .5 sec cast time. Soul siphon absolutely works in bgs and ult cost is mostly irrelevant since its 25ish more than resto alt and rememberance and 50 less than barrier, and trees is tuned to operate around wardens other skills and is not an emergency burst heal, along side siphoner and catalyst passives it's an ult that is available when needed most of the time.

I dont like the cast time but I think its effects on the use of the ult itself is highly overstated and I'll leave it at that and continue using it.

Rianai

Maybe it works in BGs, because they are rather predictable - you know who and where your enemies are. But this does not apply to Cyrodiil where anything can jump you anytime and the cast time can be absolutely detrimental there.

But then again, aren't heal ults kinda overkill in BGs with the stupid amount of cross healing aviable?

exeeter702

Rianai wrote: »

Maybe it works in BGs, because they are rather predictable - you know who and where your enemies are. But this does not apply to Cyrodiil where anything can jump you anytime and the cast time can be absolutely detrimental there.

But then again, aren't heal ults kinda overkill in BGs with the stupid amount of cross healing aviable?

For the most part sure, it's also why I feel the soul siphon ult heal value is overkill. But on the other hand I dont consider cyrodil play in anyway indicative of focused and skillfully play. Almost anything can be made to work in that hodgepodge of an environment.

brandonv516

It's just disappointing because I never had issues being interrupted when casting this ultimate.

I would actually be able to stay with my group and if an enemy for example used a Permafrost it would directly counter it.

Now (when it is supposed to be uninterruptible) it's not very dependable.

Look I get their vision is that they don't want NBs to be with their group, but most teammates don't work well with this. The "ball" works better because it's more intimidating.

The synergy is not the greatest and I would be completely in favor of it going away in exchange for losing the cast time.

Iskiab

It’s totally unreliable in BGs, I don’t know what opponents you’re facing but magblade healers already have issues with self-healing. Any time you’re struggling to keep yourself topped up, if your opponents aren’t leaping, or pushing hard you’re fighting potatoes.

exeeter702

Iskiab wrote: »

It’s totally unreliable in BGs, I don’t know what opponents you’re facing but magblade healers already have issues with self-healing. Any time you’re struggling to keep yourself topped up, if your opponents aren’t leaping, or pushing hard you’re fighting potatoes.

I take absolute umbrage with generalizations about fighting potatoes. Nor am I talking out of my ass, but I wont stupe to thinly veiled "l2p" comments despite my experience in this game. If you find the ult entirely unsable that's your prerogative. If you are getting focused with 2 coordinated ult dumps, of which one will stun, as a magblade healer, an instant cast soul siphon is not going to save you. That is an entirely separate discussion.

Mickydanz

The worst part is cc's override the animation, like you cast siphoning ultimate to have it cancel because fossilise was cast after you had cast.

Neloth

Yes, ZoS should 100% remove it, or...

Just add the same cast time on warden tree, necro res, sorc negate, DK corrosive and templar remembrance ults, since they all deserve to have the same counterplay as soul siphon.

Actually now when I'm thinking about this, I would like to see how DKs will complain about their leaps interrupting their corrosive.

Qbiken

Just get rid of cast times all together (on the skills that recently received them).

Moonsorrow

Iskiab wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It's annoying that it can't be reliably block-canceled, too.

Why does an expensive burst-heal ult need a cast time?

Not only that, but it’s interruptable by some abilities. Leap will interrupt it for example.

The cast time change really changed the ability from top tier to trash tier in one patch. It will be worse after the patch, if you cloak and then cast it now you get the spell power buff on it plus can protect yourself while casting it. After the patch people will be able to target you in cloak with single target abilities and leap.

Even as a healer I went with soul tether, it’s better. So cloak - soul siphon wasting 2 seconds and then getting interrupted before being able to heal? Hell no. A one second cast time on a healing ultimate is just stupid.

This.

I HATE the cast time on it, after some time not using it at all (after the change i tried and tried and tried and it keeps failing to cast and it gets interrupted by so many things during the cast time that it is pretty much useless in a fast combat in the moment you need it)

Yesterday, after a long time i tried it again, just because YOLO i guess and results: 1 out of 5 times used it actually worked. ONCE. Out of 5 times, that i needed it as a burst/hot in a 2vX scenario, well.. it just is not reliable to work to be worth a slot as a heal anymore. This was the last try i did with it. No more. Good bye for that skill from me. Was so furious when so many things interrupted it from enemies.

With same logic Templar heal ulti should have a cast time before the channel starts and be interruptible too, with same logic Necromancer Goliath form should have a cast time and be interruptible (since it heals you for 30k hp) and so on.

WHY does Nightblades ONLY real burst heal (that is an ultimate) has a cast time and is interruptible while others can cast their emergency/support heals instantly?

ZOS, maybe time to stop this unlogical behaviour between ultimates of same purpose and take these lame cast times away, atleast from Soul Siphon unless you are also gonna do same to other classes ultimates that have a healing component in them?

@ZOS_Gilliam If Soul Siphon as a healing ultimate with a clunky & interruptible cast time is the new standard, should'nt other classes with their RULE-BREAKER ultimates that have any sort of healing component in them also be given the same cast time treatment..

Or is it just a Nightblade thing that anything we would like to use from our class skills gets nerfed to be bad, clunky or unreliable so we just use Weapon and Guild skill lines? Atleast Resto stuff and things like Meteor WORK when you press that button instead of Nightblades own skills. Sad times to play NB, especially if you wanna be in a support role.

One thing i say, i will never use Soul Siphon again until it actually works again in Cyrodiil environment. I`ve had enough with it not working.