Because everyone loves talking about the tank meta...

xXMeowMeowXx

Stop with the nerfling threads because you can’t beat other players in a video game, Cx.

Play Non Cp, so you can cry there too, if you’re so triggered by better players and coordinated groups....

Smh, rn the lag meta and the horrible performance meta in cyro reigns supreme. That is where ZoS needs to put their attention, not hand holding for bad PvPers.

#StopTheNerfs

relentless_turnip

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Stop with the nerfling threads because you can’t beat other players in a video game, Cx.

Play Non Cp, so you can cry there too, if you’re so triggered by better players and coordinated groups....

Smh, rn the lag meta and the horrible performance meta in cyro reigns supreme. That is where ZoS needs to put their attention, not hand holding for bad PvPers.

#StopTheNerfs

who's triggered?!

Read it, it isn't a nerf thread.

landsbergis

Reduce the value an impen pice gives to 150-ish crit resist 😊

relentless_turnip

landsbergis wrote: »

Reduce the value an impen pice gives to 150-ish crit resist 😊

Well my Stamcro crit build would appreciate it

x48rph

eso_lags wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Just my thoughts on how to reduce the tank meta, feel free to tell me its ***!!!

Without effecting PVE or no CP(neither of which I think are a problem):

Nerf cross healing through battle spirit.
Reduce healing received from an ally by 75% instead of 50% so only a dedicated healer can have a real impact on ally healing.

Only allow heals to party members in a pvp area, this should reduce server calculations too. What I mean is you should only be able to heal members of your group.
From my personal experience I don't feel self heals are much of a problem, feel free to disagree...

Allow us to switch smart healing priority so it always heals the caster first, this will avoid accidental cross healing, when you just want to use bloody rapid regen on yourself

Then just reduce the effectiveness of the red cp tree in pvp area's, this won't effect no cp or pve as i don't think it is an issue there. I would suggest reducing ironclad's(and thick skinned if DOTs ever become something to fear again) effectiveness by 50% so you will lose roughly 10% mitigation in cp campaigns. This should only happen again in a PvP zone via battle spirit.

I couldnt agree more pal, at least with the reducing healing received from allies. In fact, I think it should be dropped by 50% after the 50% from battle spirit is already applied. The amount of bad players who are carried on the back of templars is awful. A half competent magplar will carry a whole group of bots, and a game should never be like that. Especially considering how a lot of these magplars can still hit like a truck while carrying a group of bad players. It blows my mind.

so only a dedicated healer can have a real impact on ally healing. - Thats how it always should have been.

But just like so many things that should be, we will never see it. Zos likes casuals because casuals make money. And casuals like getting carried by healers, mainly magplars. Zos also likes easy mode, and they dont want people to have to put in too much effort to do well. Its a shame that so many games go down this path, but it is what it is. Easy mode games that are aimed at more casual players and offer little to no challenge throughout almost all of the game, and micro transactions, seem to be the way of the future in most mmos.

I'm confused. You want to cut healing by others by 75% but somehow that's suppose to ensure only dedicated healers can heal? While also allowing you to only heal your own group? Ok, like that's just going to do the opposite and make people build even more tanky and slot their own heal and will pretty much be the death of dedicated healers cause their heals will be worthless. Like sorry, but healing is a thing and is certainly not the cause of the "tank meta". I won't argue that mitigation, high damage heavy armor builds, and healing in general needs looked at, but we certainly don't need to ruin someone's whole play style over it just cause you don't like other people getting healed... by a healer... who's job it is to, you know, heal. Of course like everything that somehow equates to being carried by a healer, instead of being called what it really is, playing the game exactly how it was designed to be played in group content.

Kadoin

Hey look! A "solution" that would not affect all classes equally!

I have a better idea:

1. CAP DAMAGE REDUCTION OUTSIDE OF BLOCK

2. Address BRP DW and Resto

3. Address infused block cost

4. Stop introducing hybrid sets that benefit stam more than mag by very nature of the game like New Moon Acolyte - sets that give a massive amount of weapon damage are bad design. Said it during its introduction and still feel the same way now that every stam build is using it on a "tank" build with little downside instead of hybrids. The set should have really been focused on CRIT and not weapon/spell damage IMO.

5. Actually address MAG vs STAM imbalance. As long as it exist, mag gonna keep building tanky and ain't nothing the devs can do besides nerf mag to the ground and have a massive exodus to stam, where the exact same problems will rise up again. One thing they can do is add reduce break free cost to light armor and take that crappy snare reduction away.

6. Stop introducing sets that ball groups can use to get even stronger like HITI or w/e its called. And stop allowing sets to outheal skills

7. Actually NERF heals that require little investment - aka ALL THE HP % HEALS. It's no surprise every super tank build pushing loads of damage are classes with these HP% heals.

8. Stick to "power budget" in sets instead of allowing sets that grossly ignore it: see Pariah, Robes of the Hist, Cyrodiil's Ward, Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Titan Born Strength, etc.

Nerfing healing in the way the OP suggested won't do anything to the REAL tank builds everyone is complaining about or ball groups, it won't matter because ball groups can stack more healing and the changes won't affect someone using gear that supplements their healing to the point they need no other healing in the game.

But don't worry, ZOS will never do any of what I said because they have a large portion of the PvP population that love these things in the game, yet complain about it on the forums and throw smokescreens over it.

relentless_turnip

x48rph wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Just my thoughts on how to reduce the tank meta, feel free to tell me its ***!!!

Without effecting PVE or no CP(neither of which I think are a problem):

Nerf cross healing through battle spirit.
Reduce healing received from an ally by 75% instead of 50% so only a dedicated healer can have a real impact on ally healing.

Only allow heals to party members in a pvp area, this should reduce server calculations too. What I mean is you should only be able to heal members of your group.
From my personal experience I don't feel self heals are much of a problem, feel free to disagree...

Allow us to switch smart healing priority so it always heals the caster first, this will avoid accidental cross healing, when you just want to use bloody rapid regen on yourself

Then just reduce the effectiveness of the red cp tree in pvp area's, this won't effect no cp or pve as i don't think it is an issue there. I would suggest reducing ironclad's(and thick skinned if DOTs ever become something to fear again) effectiveness by 50% so you will lose roughly 10% mitigation in cp campaigns. This should only happen again in a PvP zone via battle spirit.

I couldnt agree more pal, at least with the reducing healing received from allies. In fact, I think it should be dropped by 50% after the 50% from battle spirit is already applied. The amount of bad players who are carried on the back of templars is awful. A half competent magplar will carry a whole group of bots, and a game should never be like that. Especially considering how a lot of these magplars can still hit like a truck while carrying a group of bad players. It blows my mind.

so only a dedicated healer can have a real impact on ally healing. - Thats how it always should have been.

But just like so many things that should be, we will never see it. Zos likes casuals because casuals make money. And casuals like getting carried by healers, mainly magplars. Zos also likes easy mode, and they dont want people to have to put in too much effort to do well. Its a shame that so many games go down this path, but it is what it is. Easy mode games that are aimed at more casual players and offer little to no challenge throughout almost all of the game, and micro transactions, seem to be the way of the future in most mmos.

I'm confused. You want to cut healing by others by 75% but somehow that's suppose to ensure only dedicated healers can heal? While also allowing you to only heal your own group? Ok, like that's just going to do the opposite and make people build even more tanky and slot their own heal and will pretty much be the death of dedicated healers cause their heals will be worthless. Like sorry, but healing is a thing and is certainly not the cause of the "tank meta". I won't argue that mitigation, high damage heavy armor builds, and healing in general needs looked at, but we certainly don't need to ruin someone's whole play style over it just cause you don't like other people getting healed... by a healer... who's job it is to, you know, heal. Of course like everything that somehow equates to being carried by a healer, instead of being called what it really is, playing the game exactly how it was designed to be played in group content.

Fair enough I appreciate your opinion.

I don't think healers healing is the problem as I stated in my OP, It is everyone healing everyone that is a problem.

I think the best thing to take away from my OP is the option to be able to switch your own healing priority for smart healing. i.e being able to set your heals to self heal, thus reducing cross healing massively that way.

I don't see many dedicated healers in PVP mainly everyone just healing everyone, by accident or other wise. If you are fully spec'd to heal then you will still be healing effectively.

Deathlord92

Not everyone likes to run around with 20 other players nerfing healing that much will kill solo pvp

relentless_turnip

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Not everyone likes to run around with 20 other players nerfing healing that much will kill solo pvp

Read my OP please, it caters more to small scale and solo play...

I am suggesting a reduction of healing from other people, self healing would be exactly the same.

DMuehlhausen

I don't PvP so I can't speak to that side of things.

However self healing does need to take a hit. While I get the older dungeons are going to be much easier I think they still need to be diffcult enough that you need a healer and tank for. You shouldn't just be able to go in and spam the same 1 or 2 damage skills and stay near full life through an entire vet dungeon.

I also think dungeons like FG need to be re-worked to where you can just skip half of it.

Joy_Division

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Only allow heals to party members in a pvp area, this should reduce server calculations too. What I mean is you should only be able to heal members of your group.

I guess you like ball groups. Because do you know how more insanely powerful ball groups will become if you only allow them to cross heal? And I guess you hate healers. Because while everyone else can just log in and do whatever, the only way you're going to allow them to play is by forcing them to type LFG in zone.

relentless_turnip

Joy_Division wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Only allow heals to party members in a pvp area, this should reduce server calculations too. What I mean is you should only be able to heal members of your group.

I guess you like ball groups. Because do you know how more insanely powerful ball groups will become if you only allow them to cross heal? And I guess you hate healers. Because while everyone else can just log in and do whatever, the only way you're going to allow them to play is by forcing them to type LFG in zone.

Ball groups were only administering heals to players in their faction when they were in the same area as them, but were also receiving them... they would no longer receive them. I am suggesting reducing healing to ball groups. They would only be able to heal within their group with 25% less effectiveness, maybe i wasn't clear? Ball groups are probably my least favourite thing about pvp, beaten only by performance.

Yes one of the 3 idea's i offered does *** on healers a bit... being honest with ourselves though i would say 95% of heals received in cyrodiil are not coming from fully spec'd healers. Even allowing to switch our healing priority would reduce cross heals from everyone else. Everyone is currently a healer in pvp accidentally or purposely in cyrodiil.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

When I play - admittedly these days infrequently - In Cyrodiil I’m solo 90% of the time. Yet, I’m constantly in the inner ring because I like massive battles. In the time it takes me to bar swap I can go from an execution machine to a B+ healer. The number of times I’ve intentionally healed others who were not in my group probably runs into the hundreds of thousands. You would be effectively ruining PVP for any “free agent” healer out there.

That said ... there is an easy way to deal with the tank meta. Choose any.

1 - you can just ignore them. What are they gonna do, armor you to death?

2 - completely disregard your own safety and go whole hog into damage. Sure you’ll die more but no, you won’t die nearly as much as you’d think if you have any sort of spatial awareness. Half the reason tanks “can’t be killed” is that the player base has been shamed into nerfing their own damage for the sake of survivability. NEWS FLASH!!! You’re going to die in Cyrodiil from time to time anyway! Who cares if you average one death every 20 minutes instead of one every 30? Even the tankiest tanks that shake off 5 attackers like flies can’t withstand doing that while someone hits them with a fully specced PVE caliber Jesus Beam.

So my advice, ignore as much defense as you can get away with. There are enough defensive tricks (potions, line of sight, shields) where you can survive most attacks if you are reasonably intelligent about picking your spots. Once you have that covered put EVERYTHING into offense. Tanks won’t matter at that point and if they somehow still do ... well just use tip 1 instead.

eso_lags

x48rph wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Just my thoughts on how to reduce the tank meta, feel free to tell me its ***!!!

Without effecting PVE or no CP(neither of which I think are a problem):

Nerf cross healing through battle spirit.
Reduce healing received from an ally by 75% instead of 50% so only a dedicated healer can have a real impact on ally healing.

Only allow heals to party members in a pvp area, this should reduce server calculations too. What I mean is you should only be able to heal members of your group.
From my personal experience I don't feel self heals are much of a problem, feel free to disagree...

Allow us to switch smart healing priority so it always heals the caster first, this will avoid accidental cross healing, when you just want to use bloody rapid regen on yourself

Then just reduce the effectiveness of the red cp tree in pvp area's, this won't effect no cp or pve as i don't think it is an issue there. I would suggest reducing ironclad's(and thick skinned if DOTs ever become something to fear again) effectiveness by 50% so you will lose roughly 10% mitigation in cp campaigns. This should only happen again in a PvP zone via battle spirit.

I couldnt agree more pal, at least with the reducing healing received from allies. In fact, I think it should be dropped by 50% after the 50% from battle spirit is already applied. The amount of bad players who are carried on the back of templars is awful. A half competent magplar will carry a whole group of bots, and a game should never be like that. Especially considering how a lot of these magplars can still hit like a truck while carrying a group of bad players. It blows my mind.

so only a dedicated healer can have a real impact on ally healing. - Thats how it always should have been.

But just like so many things that should be, we will never see it. Zos likes casuals because casuals make money. And casuals like getting carried by healers, mainly magplars. Zos also likes easy mode, and they dont want people to have to put in too much effort to do well. Its a shame that so many games go down this path, but it is what it is. Easy mode games that are aimed at more casual players and offer little to no challenge throughout almost all of the game, and micro transactions, seem to be the way of the future in most mmos.

I'm confused. You want to cut healing by others by 75% but somehow that's suppose to ensure only dedicated healers can heal? While also allowing you to only heal your own group? Ok, like that's just going to do the opposite and make people build even more tanky and slot their own heal and will pretty much be the death of dedicated healers cause their heals will be worthless. Like sorry, but healing is a thing and is certainly not the cause of the "tank meta". I won't argue that mitigation, high damage heavy armor builds, and healing in general needs looked at, but we certainly don't need to ruin someone's whole play style over it just cause you don't like other people getting healed... by a healer... who's job it is to, you know, heal. Of course like everything that somehow equates to being carried by a healer, instead of being called what it really is, playing the game exactly how it was designed to be played in group content.

Im not saying that is the answer or that my opinion is right on the matter, but it is my opinion. You can defend it all you want but to me most healers just carry bad players. Of course there are plenty that carry good players to do great things, like a healer in a raid. Or a healer that runs around with 3 other damage builds and mops larger groups of players. But more often than not, for me, its a small group of bad players trying to kill one or two players, failing at it, and only staying alive because of that one magplar.

And for the most part it is magplars, they can hit very hard while still carrying a group of players. Its crazy. No class should have so much survivability, for multiple players, and have so much damage at the same time.. I rarely run into problems with other healers, sometimes a warden tank/healer that spams the healing ultimate, but at the end of they day they are a tank/healer. They are not a damage/healer that hits extremely hard and heals multiple people better than anything else.. And they can do it so brainlessly by spamming a couple skills.

But again I was just giving my opinion. I dont really want nerfs in this game because zos are garbage at balance and make horrible blanket nerfs, and drastic changes, instead of small changes over time. But if I had it my way you wouldnt be able to heal others, in pvp*, at all. But no need to worry because that will never happen.

But to say bad players dont get carried by healers is just a flat out lie. If you dont think so they you dont small scale very much.

Rex-Umbra

Just remove battle spirit

WilliamESO

Solo pvp for the win #zergs carried

Kalante

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Stop with the nerfling threads because you can’t beat other players in a video game, Cx.

Play Non Cp, so you can cry there too, if you’re so triggered by better players and coordinated groups....

Smh, rn the lag meta and the horrible performance meta in cyro reigns supreme. That is where ZoS needs to put their attention, not hand holding for bad PvPers.

#StopTheNerfs

This is a reduce server load topic, isnt that what you are advocating for? What are you even talking about this being a nerf thread, can you even read? Also how can you be bad at a game that doesnt even works in the ps4 and xbox right now. Skills dont fire off or respond most of the time.