Time to buff most of magic builds for balance

Stibbons

I would personally like to play other than mainly stamina characters in any pvp content. At this moment it is pretty much imposible. Example: Magic necromancer. Really pretty imposible to make any viable spec that harmony spec to some damage. Still the are and window to do some damage is small and you have to literally stand in middle of small area to do so.

I am really wondering how can the game be this unbalanced Still?

Stibbons

*Without harmony

ThePedge

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

Iskiab

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

Think so? I agree that a group of 4 stam is weaker than a group of 4 mag, but how much of that is how people spec or mag vs stam.

If all 4 stam ran echoing vigor they’d probably beat the 4 mag since it stacks.

Anyron

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

That's why most of players in cyro are stamina users right? Something is wrong with your theory
Everybody knows stamina pvp sets are superior to magicka sets. Stamina can pick medium or heavy armor, magicka only light

Alchimiste1

Iskiab wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

Think so? I agree that a group of 4 stam is weaker than a group of 4 mag, but how much of that is how people spec or mag vs stam.

If all 4 stam ran echoing vigor they’d probably beat the 4 mag since it stacks.

You think so ?
I think you’d need to go much higher in quantity for mag to be better (large scale group)

Any combination of stamcro stamden and stamplar is going to destroy mag groups of four imo

Narvuntien

I wish more classes had a class purge because it can bedifficult to breakfree on Mag in PVP.

Iskiab

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

Think so? I agree that a group of 4 stam is weaker than a group of 4 mag, but how much of that is how people spec or mag vs stam.

If all 4 stam ran echoing vigor they’d probably beat the 4 mag since it stacks.

You think so ?
I think you’d need to go much higher in quantity for mag to be better (large scale group)

Any combination of stamcro stamden and stamplar is going to destroy mag groups of four imo

Depends. Most people when they say mag just think of magsorc since they’re the most common. With a good group of 4 mag against 4 stam in BGs we’ll usually win (I play almost exclusively mag) even against good opponents.

I think it’s mainly in CP pvp where stam would win that fight since it’s harder to burst people down.

In BGs most stam don’t slot a gap closer so they’re easy to kite back and string out. Most people who show up in dueling specs get wrecked in BGs, but it’s all about your team and how they play. Stam tend to tunnel more and are easier to take advantage of.

SodanTok

Iskiab wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

Think so? I agree that a group of 4 stam is weaker than a group of 4 mag, but how much of that is how people spec or mag vs stam.

If all 4 stam ran echoing vigor they’d probably beat the 4 mag since it stacks.

You can say same for if 4 mags run radiating regen on top of every other heal mag has access to as all are group focused and all stack and radiating is 72% stronger than echoing.

usmguy1234

SodanTok wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

Think so? I agree that a group of 4 stam is weaker than a group of 4 mag, but how much of that is how people spec or mag vs stam.

If all 4 stam ran echoing vigor they’d probably beat the 4 mag since it stacks.

You can say same for if 4 mags run radiating regen on top of every other heal mag has access to as all are group focused and all stack and radiating is 72% stronger than echoing.

So much this. Stam utility has been gutted to almost non-existentence. I've seen magicka trios tank and spank entire groups the size of which I haven't seen stam capable of in a very long time- in open field mind you. I think most of the comments about magicka being weak are from people trying to play it outside of its strengths or if they happen to stray to far from crown and gets whooped by a stam player in a game of cat and mouse.

Stibbons

I've see every day stamina duos tank and spank entire groups.

technohic

Get rid of negate spam, its supposed to be an ultimate and is lopsided toward magicka

Get magicka root/snare immunity up to at least 4 seconds, but better 5 to match stam counterparts

Make a melee magicka weapon that scales as high as 2her does for stam and allow its heavy attack to be as quick and effective.

Then do individual class tweaks after that starting with magblade.

technohic

Narvuntien wrote: »

I wish more classes had a class purge because it can bedifficult to breakfree on Mag in PVP.

How does that help you break free?

butterrum222

Stam dks with the change to cauterize and tank and spank all day

Iskiab

technohic wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I wish more classes had a class purge because it can bedifficult to breakfree on Mag in PVP.

How does that help you break free?

Break free is unreliable in cyrodiil. It’s far more effective to cleanse negative effects.

Break free = 4k stam to do nothing
Cleanse = 6k mag to remove 18 negative effects from the group plus heal

technohic

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I wish more classes had a class purge because it can bedifficult to breakfree on Mag in PVP.

How does that help you break free?

Break free is unreliable in cyrodiil. It’s far more effective to cleanse negative effects.

Break free = 4k stam to do nothing
Cleanse = 6k mag to remove 18 negative effects from the group plus heal

That's not a self thing though nor is it restricted to class. And efficient purge is more like 4500. It really should be closer to the ER around 4200 though and require a synergy for that reason. Cleanse could stay the same cost and require a synergy

Rahar

Anyron wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

That's why most of players in cyro are stamina users right? Something is wrong with your theory
Everybody knows stamina pvp sets are superior to magicka sets. Stamina can pick medium or heavy armor, magicka only light

He did say that it was any PvP but solo. I'd personally expand that to "... and duo", but him including the solo part is good enough for me. In that case, he's pretty correct. Regen and harmony still exist.

That being said, for solo, its stamina lmao

Iskiab

technohic wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I wish more classes had a class purge because it can bedifficult to breakfree on Mag in PVP.

How does that help you break free?

Break free is unreliable in cyrodiil. It’s far more effective to cleanse negative effects.

Break free = 4k stam to do nothing
Cleanse = 6k mag to remove 18 negative effects from the group plus heal

That's not a self thing though nor is it restricted to class. And efficient purge is more like 4500. It really should be closer to the ER around 4200 though and require a synergy for that reason. Cleanse could stay the same cost and require a synergy

Without cleanse, or if it required a synergy, cyrodiil would be completely broken. Cleanse is all that’s holding it somewhat together so it’s somewhat playable.

First basics of the game need to work properly before removing what makes things sorta work.

technohic

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I wish more classes had a class purge because it can bedifficult to breakfree on Mag in PVP.

How does that help you break free?

Break free is unreliable in cyrodiil. It’s far more effective to cleanse negative effects.

Break free = 4k stam to do nothing
Cleanse = 6k mag to remove 18 negative effects from the group plus heal

That's not a self thing though nor is it restricted to class. And efficient purge is more like 4500. It really should be closer to the ER around 4200 though and require a synergy for that reason. Cleanse could stay the same cost and require a synergy

Without cleanse, or if it required a synergy, cyrodiil would be completely broken. Cleanse is all that’s holding it somewhat together so it’s somewhat playable.

First basics of the game need to work properly before removing what makes things sorta work.

Plenty of people do fine without it. Only people benefitting from it are groups with a couple people or more spamming it because that's the payoff you mention. Effectively 18 negative effects removed at the touch of a button at a very efficient cost.

Joinovikova

Iskiab wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

Think so? I agree that a group of 4 stam is weaker than a group of 4 mag, but how much of that is how people spec or mag vs stam.

If all 4 stam ran echoing vigor they’d probably beat the 4 mag since it stacks.

It’s also up to class group of for Stam warden is stronger than nearly any magica set ups

Iskiab

technohic wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I wish more classes had a class purge because it can bedifficult to breakfree on Mag in PVP.

How does that help you break free?

Break free is unreliable in cyrodiil. It’s far more effective to cleanse negative effects.

Break free = 4k stam to do nothing
Cleanse = 6k mag to remove 18 negative effects from the group plus heal

That's not a self thing though nor is it restricted to class. And efficient purge is more like 4500. It really should be closer to the ER around 4200 though and require a synergy for that reason. Cleanse could stay the same cost and require a synergy

Without cleanse, or if it required a synergy, cyrodiil would be completely broken. Cleanse is all that’s holding it somewhat together so it’s somewhat playable.

First basics of the game need to work properly before removing what makes things sorta work.

Plenty of people do fine without it. Only people benefitting from it are groups with a couple people or more spamming it because that's the payoff you mention. Effectively 18 negative effects removed at the touch of a button at a very efficient cost.

Depends yea. I could see how a small scale or solo player would think that. Issue is moreso when factions stack in cyrodiil, that’s when the game breaks down.

You could always play small scale or solo and just hop on the winning faction in the unlocked campaign, but if you’re playing the actual campaign being able to fight back is sorta important.

People like to blame ball groups, etc... for cyrodiil as is, but I think break free and cc immunity being broken is what’s really contributing to the tank meta and faction stacking. Even in BGs you can break free 3x and nothing happens, try fighting against 60 players.

Emma_Overload

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

"Solo" is where all the grief and angst is, though. Nobody cares about zerg v. zerg deaths.

It is FAR more important to balance for 1v1 performance, in my opinion, and that includes balancing Stamina and Magicka.

Joy_Division

Emma_Overload wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

"Solo" is where all the grief and angst is, though. Nobody cares about zerg v. zerg deaths.

It is FAR more important to balance for 1v1 performance, in my opinion, and that includes balancing Stamina and Magicka.

While this sounds nice in theory, this just leads to a lot of complaining when people think their class has a bad match up vs another. That leads to removing the distictive and meaningful abilities we do have so every class has a "fair" matchup vs everyone, just to cater to all these complaints. Look at the DKs nodding their heads. This is especially infuriating becuase 90% of these complaints come from people who do not solo. In the end we get a homogenized watered down game.

The way I see it is that if people want to be solo heroes in a game that features an alliance war, the burden is upon them to git gud such they they don't feel "oppressed" by other classes. If they can't hack that, then they should play as cyrodiil was intended and find a friend, small group, or zerg to complement their strengths and weaknesses.

SodanTok

Emma_Overload wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Magicka still best for any PvP but solo.

"Solo" is where all the grief and angst is, though. Nobody cares about zerg v. zerg deaths.

It is FAR more important to balance for 1v1 performance, in my opinion, and that includes balancing Stamina and Magicka.

ESO PVP is large scale Cyrodiil and small scale battlegrounds but in every way... group focused. Even the less propagated activity like 1vX is more often small group v X these days.
1v1 literally doesnt matter and never mattered and never will matter in this game. Its time to accept it

Stibbons

Area spell tick are uselee nowdays on pvp. Example: mag necros Avid Boneyard tics about 350-600 on crits! Spell damage: 2100, magic pool 43K. Seems like allmost all area spells are just waste on magic because the damage is so abysmal.

Riochet skull travel time is 1-3 seconds on enemy Skeletan Archanist shoots small sparks every 2 seconds and many times it just is blind because it cannot postion itself. Most of the times it hides behind some rock or a tree

Kadoin

No.

Iskiab

Stibbons wrote: »

Area spell tick are uselee nowdays on pvp. Example: mag necros Avid Boneyard tics about 350-600 on crits! Spell damage: 2100, magic pool 43K. Seems like allmost all area spells are just waste on magic because the damage is so abysmal.

Riochet skull travel time is 1-3 seconds on enemy Skeletan Archanist shoots small sparks every 2 seconds and many times it just is blind because it cannot postion itself. Most of the times it hides behind some rock or a tree

Get some penetration. I think the issue is moreso max mag builds are terrible in CP cyrodiil. I had a similar experience as a MagWarden.

High armour does a pretty good job of negating high mag builds, and they just wait for onslaught to hit you back so can tank their pen.

Major Evasion is also popular and easy to get, it’s moreso aoes that hit for not a lot.

Stibbons

Iskiab wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Area spell tick are uselee nowdays on pvp. Example: mag necros Avid Boneyard tics about 350-600 on crits! Spell damage: 2100, magic pool 43K. Seems like allmost all area spells are just waste on magic because the damage is so abysmal.

Riochet skull travel time is 1-3 seconds on enemy Skeletan Archanist shoots small sparks every 2 seconds and many times it just is blind because it cannot postion itself. Most of the times it hides behind some rock or a tree

Get some penetration. I think the issue is moreso max mag builds are terrible in CP cyrodiil. I had a similar experience as a MagWarden.

High armour does a pretty good job of negating high mag builds, and they just wait for onslaught to hit you back so can tank their pen.

Major Evasion is also popular and easy to get, it’s moreso aoes that hit for not a lot.

Lol i have New Moon Acolyte and Bright Throat. 45 points in spell penetration