I understand you want to sell ZOS but ..

ThePlayer · February 10

Hi everyone, the title refers to the dlc veteran dungeons, with 300 CPs players 99% of the time it is not possible to complete them (except for players who come from consoles where they have 1000 CPs), so i ask ZOS to increase the number of CPs minimum of at least 600 CPs (which does not give guarantees but certainly better than 300 CPs) because going alone in the queue to complete the veteran dlc is now a complete waste of time.
ZOS wants these dlc dungeons a lot but the dungeons progress system does not work and often if you going alone with the group finder find yourself with tank pvp with 300 CPs and DDs with 15k dps, which could also be fine but not for veteran dlc content.
Do something! because for my part i will buy the new dlc when i'll complete the dlc dungeons veteran with all my alts.

Alienoutlaw · February 10

ThePlayer wrote: »

Hi everyone, the title refers to the dlc veteran dungeons, with 300 CPs players 99% of the time it is not possible to complete them (except for players who come from consoles where they have 1000 CPs), so i ask ZOS to increase the number of CPs minimum of at least 600 CPs (which does not give guarantees but certainly better than 300 CPs) because going alone in the queue to complete the veteran dlc is now a complete waste of time.
ZOS wants these dlc dungeons a lot but the dungeons progress system does not work and often if you going alone with the group finder find yourself with tank pvp with 300 CPs and DDs with 15k dps, which could also be fine but not for veteran dlc content.
Do something! because for my part i will buy the new dlc when i'll complete the dlc dungeons veteran with all my alts.

this is a bad idea, the 300cp minimum is more than sufficient, i also disagree that 99% of cp300 players not capable of doing DLC content, sounds like you have had some bad experiences but does not mean that ZOS should overhaul a system to suit your needs.

ThePlayer · February 10

Try to be sincere and realistic, in which ESO do you play? find me these players with 300-350 CPs who can complete the dlc veteran dungeons and i will be happy to add them to my friends list.
Maybe you find one out of every 50 random groups you find ...

FierceSam · February 10

I guess it depends on how clever they’ve been in the dungeon design.

Increasingly the designs have been more about introducing mechanics which have to be countered (to reduce the effectiveness of boss burning tactics), rather than just slapping groups with damage checks and one-shots.

The idea should be that it’s about player skill rather than character strength that gets you through the content. So just as CP won’t help you if you’re incompetent (and CP is no indication of proficiency whatsoever), a lack of CP shouldn’t significantly damage your chances of getting through if you’re good.

And while DLC vet HMs are hard, they’re clearly not impossible because lots of players have done them. PUGing them is a totally different thing because you will get players of very different abilities.

Gating content too much is never going to be attractive to either game designers or players. However, the single most effective thing ZOS could do to help ensure that fewer unprepared players were placed into DLC PUGs would be to provide ESO+ subscribers with the option to not include DLC dungeons in their random queues. That would ensure that players who knew they weren’t ready for them, but were quite capable of running non-DLC vet content, would not be press ganged into DLC dungeons.

Kiralyn2000 · February 10

ThePlayer wrote: »

Maybe you find one out of every 50 random groups you find ...

Then maybe try non-random groups?

...I also kind of doubt that "bad PUG" will manage it with 600cp any more than they could at 300. /shrug

Kel · February 10

ThePlayer wrote: »

Try to be sincere and realistic, in which ESO do you play? find me these players with 300-350 CPs who can complete the dlc veteran dungeons and i will be happy to add them to my friends list.
Maybe you find one out of every 50 random groups you find ...

Everyone begged for a CP threshold on vet DLC dungeons, despite reasonable players saying it's not a matter of CP, but competence and awareness as a player.

Zos listened to the former and put a cap in place.

How ironic you feel that cap should now be increased.
But the original argument still remains the true answer. Your CP level does not equal to you being a competent player. Too much emphasis on CP means zero.
A CP cap increase fixes nothing. As the 300 CP cap has shown. And when you're still getting the same players at 600 CP? What next? 700, 810? What will the excuse be then?

CP in no way correlates to a good player.

zvavi · February 10

The idea is kinda meh cause it gates people that want to enjoy harder content behind a long, long grind. The 300 cp is there because thats when you finish getting 20% attributes from cp, the biggest cp bonuses you have. I like the idea of dungeon tutorial certification much more.

AgaTheGreat · February 10

CP 300 person two years ago was a way more experienced player than the CP 300 of today. With all the experience scrolls we get for just logging into the game, it's extremely easy to reach that level.
A few years ago you needed more time to do that and at the same time it made you spend more time playing and getting the necessary know-how so you wouldn't suck.

When it comes to your problem, though, in my opinion people just don't want to push and improve themselves. ESO caters to casual players and there's not much incentive to practise rotations, or even learn about them, when you have so much solo content that can easily be done with 5k dps.

Thokri · February 10

It is extremely depressing when you see high cp group on pug and think "oh this will be fast run" and then after wondering why it is slow you notice in metrics you are doing 70+% of whole groups dps. All that being middle cp and not even good at weaving.

And then there are groups where you get kicked because you don't have 810cp and not fond of grinding.

I think there should be somekind of tutorial dungeon or something that would teach basics after you are cp 160/300. Leveling is *** easy albeit bit boring. I would have loved one, maybe still could use one.

You litrally can do all overland with just spamming one button, easily.

redspecter23 · February 10

I find horrible players at all CP levels. A friend baited me into vet White Gold Tower the other day. The cp 300 tank and healer were fine, but the CP 1200 necro dps was doing under 3k on boss fights and had no business being in that dungeon whatsoever. The combined dps of the tank, healer and other dps was under 5k for the end fight. We got it done, but that second dps got carried hard and unfortunately didn't learn anything other than how to beg to be carried.

Luede · February 10

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

CP 300 person two years ago was a way more experienced player than the CP 300 of today. With all the experience scrolls we get for just logging into the game, it's extremely easy to reach that level.
A few years ago you needed more time to do that and at the same time it made you spend more time playing and getting the necessary know-how so you wouldn't suck.

When it comes to your problem, though, in my opinion people just don't want to push and improve themselves. ESO caters to casual players and there's not much incentive to practise rotations, or even learn about them, when you have so much solo content that can easily be done with 5k dps.

or mabye its because the majority of dlc dungeons didnt exist 2 years ago....

AgaTheGreat · February 10

Luede wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

CP 300 person two years ago was a way more experienced player than the CP 300 of today. With all the experience scrolls we get for just logging into the game, it's extremely easy to reach that level.
A few years ago you needed more time to do that and at the same time it made you spend more time playing and getting the necessary know-how so you wouldn't suck.

When it comes to your problem, though, in my opinion people just don't want to push and improve themselves. ESO caters to casual players and there's not much incentive to practise rotations, or even learn about them, when you have so much solo content that can easily be done with 5k dps.

or mabye its because the majority of dlc dungeons didnt exist 2 years ago....

Does it matter? In non-dlc dungeons you should use all the core mechanics, like blocking, dodging, avoiding damage, self healing, dealing damage, sustaining, not standind aoes... Also, DLC dungeons have nothing to do with your dps output.

Alienoutlaw · February 10

ThePlayer wrote: »

Try to be sincere and realistic, in which ESO do you play? find me these players with 300-350 CPs who can complete the dlc veteran dungeons and i will be happy to add them to my friends list.
Maybe you find one out of every 50 random groups you find ...

i guy i now do carry runs with completed VMA at cp160, if you are prepared to be patient with a group allow them to make mistakes and offer a little advice that will ease the run alot more than griping about their cp, failing that dont PuG DLC dungeons

thadjarvis · February 10

Not that I agree with OP intent but regardless CP isn’t a good metric.

300 vs 600 CP accounts for maybe 5-10% additional DPS and maybe 5-10% mitigation?

That isn’t going to make or break a run 99% of the time.

zaria · February 10

Kel wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

Try to be sincere and realistic, in which ESO do you play? find me these players with 300-350 CPs who can complete the dlc veteran dungeons and i will be happy to add them to my friends list.
Maybe you find one out of every 50 random groups you find ...

Everyone begged for a CP threshold on vet DLC dungeons, despite reasonable players saying it's not a matter of CP, but competence and awareness as a player.

Zos listened to the former and put a cap in place.

How ironic you feel that cap should now be increased.
But the original argument still remains the true answer. Your CP level does not equal to you being a competent player. Too much emphasis on CP means zero.
A CP cap increase fixes nothing. As the 300 CP cap has shown. And when you're still getting the same players at 600 CP? What next? 700, 810? What will the excuse be then?

CP in no way correlates to a good player.

Agree, 300 is an nice number unlike cp160 as an cp160 players is unlikely to have decent gear yet nor done much veteran dungeons.At cp 300 this is not an issue.

Zer0_CooL · February 10

I understand your point, but i think it would be easier if you just go with some friends or guildies. Or atleast use voicechat with randoms.
Also for example im cp1000+ and im pretty damn sure there are low cp players better than i am in pve (i even strugle on normal dlc dungeons). So even if the required CPs wuld be raised, you wouldn't be save from noobs like me.

MaxJrFTW · February 10

I've made this same thread before. It was swarmed by liars claiming 300cp is enough to complete one of the newest vet dlc dungeons without prior experience.

The solution is to stay away from the dungeon finder.

Nevasca · February 10

Cp 300 is more than fine stat-wise for all dlc dungeons, maybe not for some HM like scalebreaker and such but it's not like you're going to successfully pug those anyway.

To be honest, I have seen more max cp players being *** at their roles than low cp. CP just sums up at time played which can be questing, grinding xp, pvp and so on. It doesn't mean they are experienced at pve, or at their role even.

But anyway, barely any people want to do dlc pledges already, queues take a long ass time even if you are a tank. No need to restrain more people from doing when there's barely any left.

MartiniDaniels · February 10

Just add VMA completion requirement. If this particular toon was able to complete VMA (this is doable at CP160, I saw it many times from console refugees), then you may queue for vDLC.

AgaTheGreat · February 10

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just add VMA completion requirement. If this particular toon was able to complete VMA (this is doable at CP160, I saw it many times from console refugees), then you may queue for vDLC.

Not a good idea.

Healers and tanks would have to respec and go into vma. Also, you don't need vma weapons to be a decent dd and go into vet dlc dungeons.

The problem is more with people not understanding their dps output or core game mechanics. There is a general lack of interest for many people in doing any serious damage. Most people are fine with questing and exploring and when they do want to do a dungeon they're terribly illprepared.

Trancestor · February 10

95% of the players in this game are terrible sorry, why do half of dlc's in this game go to making these? For pugs to do them in normal mode once and never come back? or for pugs to attempt them in vet for hours and then quit feeling like crap? Players who can actually do these dungeons and get the achievements are like 1% of the player base and we need to spend hours or days beforehand to find 3 more players to do them and then the rewards that you get in the end aren't even worth the trouble.

Ermiq · February 10

The main and the only reasons (most of the time) of the fails are:
- high CP players tend to ignore or cheat dungeon mechanics by over-dpsing and surviving more often when they cheat or do mistakes;
- low CP players are not familiar with and not experienced enough with the mechanics.
Increased CP requirements won't help with that. The only thing it will lead to is more people will tend to ignore and cheat the mechanics by over-dpsing and people will still come to the dungeons at 600CP with no practical experience just the same as if they came to the dungeon at 300CP.

PS: playing in PUGs requires patience, experience and adaptability. If you are ready to leave the PUG just because fights take longer than you would like, if you always want to use the same tactics as you used to in over-dps groups, if you don't want to communicate with PUG mates to share knowledge... Well, PUGs are just not your piece of cake. And CP won't change it.

DMuehlhausen · February 10

If people just stuck it out and learned the dungeons you could do it easily with 300 cps. The problem is when certain dungeons come up people just bail.

None of them overally hard. The problem is ZoS has made the overland game so flipping easy, and the original dungeons you can just ignore all mechanics that people don't realize you need to get out of that big red obvious circle on the ground and people just stand still then complain when they die.

Yes there are a few fights that have some more difficult mechanics, or ones that take some time to get use to, or that happen to quick (last boss in Scalecaller comes to mind) but once people do them enough you start to anticipate what to do.

I use to always die, like 100% of the time, on Velidrath when she would go up to the ceiling and you couldn't move. Now I've done it more and almost never die now. It's just sticking it out and learning.

Ermiq · February 10

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just add VMA completion requirement. If this particular toon was able to complete VMA (this is doable at CP160, I saw it many times from console refugees), then you may queue for vDLC.

Bad idea. I'm at 780CP now and I still haven't complete VMA. However, I feel pretty fine in DLC dungeons as a healer.

DMuehlhausen · February 10

Ermiq wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just add VMA completion requirement. If this particular toon was able to complete VMA (this is doable at CP160, I saw it many times from console refugees), then you may queue for vDLC.

Bad idea. I'm at 780CP now and I still haven't complete VMA. However, I feel pretty fine in DLC dungeons as a healer.

Well that's cause your a healer

I am as well so I understand. We have to essentially pay attention to nothing but the health bars. It's still people just need to give other people time to learn then there would be no issues.

Alienoutlaw · February 10

Trancestor wrote: »

95% of the players in this game are terrible sorry, why do half of dlc's in this game go to making these? For pugs to do them in normal mode once and never come back? or for pugs to attempt them in vet for hours and then quit feeling like crap? Players who can actually do these dungeons and get the achievements are like 1% of the player base and we need to spend hours or days beforehand to find 3 more players to do them and then the rewards that you get in the end aren't even worth the trouble.

not true, in fact its more like 5% of players have a really bad attitude, the Dev's have said they are making the new DLC content more casual player friendly which i can confirm as the new dungeons are very easy compared to say Scalecaller, Frostvault or Maarselok for instance. As mentioned by @Ermiq doing content with a PuG group requires a different approach, and to be honest even a half decant DPS can carry a bad group for the most part

MyPrist · February 10

We did veteran on 160cp+, and even this month made hm vMalatar with 1 player 350 CP, me and my wife and without 4 member.

Learn to play.

It is not garanted that 1000+CP would be better, i see 100+ cp playing much better than 810+ players.

Carespanker · February 10

95% of the players who play this game can't play this game and that falls under the fault of ZeniMax for not teaching their players basics such as how to animation cancel and weave, and build makers such as alcast catering to the wow player mentality of "copy a build and use these abilities to do endgame content". Its why we have 810s who can't do 20k dps to save their life while the console and EU refugees can pull 45k at cp 160.

Its honesty sickening the sheer skill gap this game has and I wish it was addressed in a tutorial instead of just a blink and you'll miss it loading screen tip.

In regards to this post, its not a cp problem, its the player base, and my advice is as simply, kindly, and seriously as i can mean it but get good, learn your class, base game mechanics, and even theory craft your own builds if you can till you find what works. No amount of cp will ever help your skill to hold your hand through the game so just get good.

Alienoutlaw · February 10

MyPrist wrote: »

We did veteran on 160cp+, and even this month made hm vMalatar with 1 player 350 CP, me and my wife and without 4 member.

Learn to play.

It is not garanted that 1000+CP would be better, i see 100+ cp playing much better than 810+ players.

Exactly this.
knowledge of mechanics is far more valuable than cp level, if you know its coming you know how to avoid it simple.

Sergykid · February 10

these things lash back at eachother. If they know mechanics it means they're dedicated enough to know how to pull high dps, if they don't know mechanics it means they're not dedicated enough to care to pull enough dps.

i'll take any day a 300 CP player that knows mechanics and pulls 25k dps, over some 600+ CP that don't know mechanics and pull 15k dps.

spectralpulse_ESO · February 10

I recently moved from PS4 (CP 600+) to PC (CP 0) and holly hell, I never realized how hostile CP is to new players. I feel like i'm gated from quite a bit of content because of this, including gear farming. Right now i'm CP 110 and i feel like i'm trying to climb a content wall to get to the fun stuff (gearing/trials). Every piece of armor i pick up is near useless because im not yet CP 160. I have had quite a few normal dungeons fail due to a lack of DPS ( i play healer, which is near useless in N Dungeons).