Any chance for Aldmeri dominion main story upgrade?

Vyvrhel · February 10

Well the game is good and the storytelling superb, to begin with.
But I just liked the good old Cold War style narrative, as seen in old movies and games, better. "A handfull of patriotic rebels fighting agains the Evil Empire ruled by an Corrupt Tyrant" was certainly feeling more natural than today's predominant "a faithfull servant of a Good Tyrant uproots evil, racist and xenophobic separatists". Do I hate KGB, gestapo, and Eyes of the Queen.
For more details, see http://www.eviloverlord.com/
Also make Ayrenn prettier, pretty please. And make her to lose that "I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an crown in the knee" attitude. She would feel way better as the semi-arrogant Smarter Than Thou scholarly mage type (Vanus, Tellenger, Than etc.) you write flawlessly.
Anyway an Altmer swordsman (swordperson??) is a nonsense in this game.

Raisin · February 10

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype with absolutely no unique character traits, because of her race no less. Got it. Okay. Just. Yeah follow me. Through that door. Yeah just shut it behind you. Great, okay. Bye.

Vyvrhel · February 10

Raisin wrote: »

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype

Sorry, but Xena archetype was popular in late nineties. I BET you like the Frozen type of heroine better.

Raisin · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype

Sorry, but Xena archetype was popular in late nineties. I BET you like the Frozen type of heroine better.

Ayrenn doesn't really scream Xena archtype to me, and I don't know what archtype disney princesses even are. Point is, altmer queen doesn't mean you have to be a snooty mage cliché. And asking to make a character MORE flat and boring really doesn't make me trust your judgement on anything.

OrdoHermetica · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Well the game is good and the storytelling superb, to begin with.
But I just liked the good old Cold War style narrative, as seen in old movies and games, better. "A handfull of patriotic rebels fighting agains the Evil Empire ruled by an Corrupt Tyrant" was certainly feeling more natural than today's predominant "a faithfull servant of a Good Tyrant uproots evil, racist and xenophobic separatists". Do I hate KGB, gestapo, and Eyes of the Queen.
For more details, see http://www.eviloverlord.com/
Also make Ayrenn prettier, pretty please. And make her to lose that "I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an crown in the knee" attitude. She would feel way better as the semi-arrogant Smarter Than Thou scholarly mage type (Vanus, Tellenger, Than etc.) you write flawlessly.
Anyway an Altmer swordsman (swordperson??) is a nonsense in this game.

...no. No, the developers aren't going to "upgrade" an entire faction's storyline to fit your own personal, highly subjective tastes.

virtus753 · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype

Sorry, but Xena archetype was popular in late nineties. I BET you like the Frozen type of heroine better.

You do realize the concept of the sword-wielding woman wasn’t invented in the ’90s, right? It predates the actual 90s. In fact it’s closer to the 900s — BC. And it’s been popular ever since. Heck, Queen Elizabeth I used to be portrayed like that, as a compliment. It never goes out of style.

Besides, the Xena archetype specifically calls on a lot more things than a sword, and Ayrenn has nearly none of those things. She’s got her own story and attitude, quite distinct from those of Xena and really any Disney heroine to date. She’s one of the strongest female characters in game. If Ayrenn became like every other Altmer out there, she’d be generic. And generic makes for weak characters.

Vyvrhel · February 10

Raisin wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype

Sorry, but Xena archetype was popular in late nineties. I BET you like the Frozen type of heroine better.

Ayrenn doesn't really scream Xena archtype to me, and I don't know what archtype disney princesses even are. Point is, altmer queen doesn't mean you have to be a snooty mage cliché. And asking to make a character MORE flat and boring really doesn't make me trust your judgement on anything.

I certainly cannot think about more flat and boring archetype than a "warrior turned king" one. Do you? Name just one "snooty mage" spokish woman character in popular culture. The mainstream feminism never liked scholarly archetype, it does not have the propaganda potential of the Conan the Barbarian in skirts. Also it is considerably harder to write such an character properly.

Ashfen · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Anyway an Altmer swordsman (swordperson??) is a nonsense in this game.

wtf

Legate_Lanius · February 10

Why would they modify something that is fine.

If you don’t like the story narrative or a character’s face that’s on you.

Vyvrhel · February 10

virtus753 wrote: »

She’s one of the strongest female characters in game. If Ayrenn became like every other Altmer out there, she’d be generic. And generic makes for weak characters.

I played throught the Aldmeri story 2 times and now I am going my 3rd go. Can you please tell me where did you get the strongest female character in game? Well she is certainly female but otherwise quite similar to, say, Jorunn. Even Titanborn is more interesting and has more depth.

Raisin · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype

Sorry, but Xena archetype was popular in late nineties. I BET you like the Frozen type of heroine better.

Ayrenn doesn't really scream Xena archtype to me, and I don't know what archtype disney princesses even are. Point is, altmer queen doesn't mean you have to be a snooty mage cliché. And asking to make a character MORE flat and boring really doesn't make me trust your judgement on anything.

I certainly cannot think about more flat and boring archetype than a "warrior turned king" one. Do you? Name just one "snooty mage" spokish woman character in popular culture. The mainstream feminism never liked scholarly archetype, it does not have the propaganda potential of the Conan the Barbarian in skirts. Also it is considerably harder to write such an character properly.

She's not a warrior turned king. She's young and idealistic. She's an ex-wild child taking on a lot of resonsibility. Though she has her moments, it's questionable whether she's fit to be a queen. She makes rash decisions She's clearly very flawed, and you can tell there's a spoiled princess behind there. She made very selfish choices and continues to do so. She's arguably one of the more openly flawed characters, and I appreciate that a lot.

Emeric is a 'warrior turned king', but he's written very well IMO. I remember expecting a different archtype from him based on experience, and appreciated the fact that there was clearly still a Darien hidden under all the grey hair. It's not about the archtype -- all characters have one -- but about the flavor you add to it. And though I always think the writing in ESO is lacking in a lot of ways, these are characters that clearly had at least some thought put into them. I'm not saying a snooty mage character isn't nice, but it's not what Ayrenn is and it doesn't fit her story, and she's a perfectly fine character in her own right. And you wanting her to be that specific archtype just because of her race and it being more cliché and more obvious just isn't a good basis at all. It would just be more generic.

And yeah sorry but... no. I don't think many of us share your need to turn this into a 'feminism in media' discussion. Although I do appreciate the irony of you complaining about how the Xena-archtype is just a "hot barbarian woman sells well" (despite the fact that Ayrenn doesn't match this at all) deal, while also asking for Ayrenn to be made hotter for your viewing pleasure.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype

Sorry, but Xena archetype was popular in late nineties. I BET you like the Frozen type of heroine better.

Ayrenn doesn't really scream Xena archtype to me, and I don't know what archtype disney princesses even are. Point is, altmer queen doesn't mean you have to be a snooty mage cliché. And asking to make a character MORE flat and boring really doesn't make me trust your judgement on anything.

I certainly cannot think about more flat and boring archetype than a "warrior turned king" one. Do you? Name just one "snooty mage" spokish woman character in popular culture. The mainstream feminism never liked scholarly archetype, it does not have the propaganda potential of the Conan the Barbarian in skirts. Also it is considerably harder to write such an character properly.

Off hand, "Morgan La Fey". Sister to Arthur, mage, female, conned Merlin to teach her magic, etc.I think that fits the bill you described. Plus, research Celtic women warriors and Goddesses. There are plenty of RL women who fit that bill.
Xena was a commercialized cash in on Hercules and I think Ayrenn is just right like she is. Go re-watch Underworld and visualize Kate as Ayrenn..

My two drakes!
Huzzah!

Hurbster · February 10

Well, if you want more facets to her character I assume that she signed off on what the Dominion was doing in Shadowfen...

Foxhearted · February 10

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Well the game is good and the storytelling superb, to begin with.
But I just liked the good old Cold War style narrative, as seen in old movies and games, better. "A handfull of patriotic rebels fighting agains the Evil Empire ruled by an Corrupt Tyrant" was certainly feeling more natural than today's predominant "a faithfull servant of a Good Tyrant uproots evil, racist and xenophobic separatists". Do I hate KGB, gestapo, and Eyes of the Queen.
For more details, see http://www.eviloverlord.com/
Also make Ayrenn prettier, pretty please. And make her to lose that "I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an crown in the knee" attitude. She would feel way better as the semi-arrogant Smarter Than Thou scholarly mage type (Vanus, Tellenger, Than etc.) you write flawlessly.
Anyway an Altmer swordsman (swordperson??) is a nonsense in this game.

...no. No, the developers aren't going to "upgrade" an entire faction's storyline to fit your own personal, highly subjective tastes.

This.
Some people want it all..

daemonios · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

The mainstream feminism never liked scholarly archetype, it does not have the propaganda potential of the Conan the Barbarian in skirts. Also it is considerably harder to write such an character properly.

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Also make Ayrenn prettier, pretty please.

Am I the only one who's getting huge fake feminist vibes here?

Raisin · February 10

daemonios wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

The mainstream feminism never liked scholarly archetype, it does not have the propaganda potential of the Conan the Barbarian in skirts. Also it is considerably harder to write such an character properly.

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Also make Ayrenn prettier, pretty please.

Am I the only one who's getting huge fake feminist vibes here?

No, you just don't get it. It's feminist uh because she...can be a nerdy scholar... AND be hot. Yeah!

prof-dracko · February 10

Hurbster wrote: »

Well, if you want more facets to her character I assume that she signed off on what the Dominion was doing in Shadowfen...

It's actually implied through some dialogue and notes that the commander in Shadowfen is going way beyond his original orders. Probably to mollify any Dominion players going through the quests so they don't think their Leader advocated an entire genocide.

idk · February 10

AD main story was my personal favorite of all the alliances. I am glad there is no chance it will change. OP's idea would not be an upgrade buy an measurement.

idk · February 10

Raisin wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype

Sorry, but Xena archetype was popular in late nineties. I BET you like the Frozen type of heroine better.

Ayrenn doesn't really scream Xena archtype to me, and I don't know what archtype disney princesses even are. Point is, altmer queen doesn't mean you have to be a snooty mage cliché. And asking to make a character MORE flat and boring really doesn't make me trust your judgement on anything.

I do have to agree with this. Part of the reason I liked the AD story was Ayrenn seemed very unique and was not flat and boring like the other two alliance monarchs.

I really find it odd OP chose Xena to characterize Ayrenn.

Vyvrhel · February 10

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Off hand, "Morgan La Fey". Sister to Arthur, mage, female, conned Merlin to teach her magic, etc.I think that fits the bill you described.

Well I woud say rather Morgawsa. But these are not the scholarly sarcastic types, they are more like noble witches.

Vyvrhel · February 10

daemonios wrote: »

Am I the only one who's getting huge fake feminist vibes here?

Not at all. Where I say I am a feminist? Anyway there is nothing wrong at the original feminism and I cannot see how feminism should be against female beauty.

ellahellabella · February 10

I didn't mind the AD questline. It wasn't as good as EP with the brothers of strife but it was better than DC.

Cirantille · February 10

-No way

She is so lively & lovely because she is open minded

Vyvrhel · February 10

Raisin wrote: »

.can be a nerdy scholar... AND be hot. Yeah!

Well actually this is easily possible. Wits are not mutualy exclusive with charms. However I was certainly not suggesting that the scholar Ayrenn should be nerdy. Do you find Vanos and Than nerdy? The only nerdy scholar I recall is Valaste. But I was talking about the LEADER types.

redlink1979 · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

And make her to lose that "I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an crown in the knee" attitude. She would feel way better as the semi-arrogant Smarter Than Thou scholarly mage type (Vanus, Tellenger, Than etc.) you write flawlessly.

No.

Vyvrhel · February 10

redlink1979 wrote: »

No.

Yes!

Raisin · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

.can be a nerdy scholar... AND be hot. Yeah!

Well actually this is easily possible. Wits are not mutualy exclusive with charms. However I was certainly not suggesting that the scholar Ayrenn should be nerdy. Do you find Vanos and Than nerdy? The only nerdy scholar I recall is Valaste. But I was talking about the LEADER types.

Vyvrhel · February 10

Raisin wrote: »

She's young and idealistic. She's an ex-wild child taking on a lot of resonsibility. Though she has her moments, it's questionable whether she's fit to be a queen. She makes rash decisions She's clearly very flawed, and you can tell there's a spoiled princess behind there. She made very selfish choices and continues to do so. She's arguably one of the more openly flawed characters, and I appreciate that a lot.

This describe majority of Disney princesses and Disney fairies. Do you have anything else about stereotypical cliche?

Raisin · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

She's young and idealistic. She's an ex-wild child taking on a lot of resonsibility. Though she has her moments, it's questionable whether she's fit to be a queen. She makes rash decisions She's clearly very flawed, and you can tell there's a spoiled princess behind there. She made very selfish choices and continues to do so. She's arguably one of the more openly flawed characters, and I appreciate that a lot.

This describe majority of Disney princesses and Disney fairies. Do you have anything else about stereotypical cliche?

Nothing new, you can just go back to what I said earlier to realize why this response isn't really relevant to anything.

Czekoludek · February 10

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

So you want to take the one thing that's actually interesting about Ayrenn... and make her more of a flat, stereotypical archtype

Sorry, but Xena archetype was popular in late nineties. I BET you like the Frozen type of heroine better.

Ayrenn doesn't really scream Xena archtype to me, and I don't know what archtype disney princesses even are. Point is, altmer queen doesn't mean you have to be a snooty mage cliché. And asking to make a character MORE flat and boring really doesn't make me trust your judgement on anything.

I certainly cannot think about more flat and boring archetype than a "warrior turned king" one. Do you? Name just one "snooty mage" spokish woman character in popular culture. The mainstream feminism never liked scholarly archetype, it does not have the propaganda potential of the Conan the Barbarian in skirts. Also it is considerably harder to write such an character properly.

Most of witches from the Witcher? I think it is quite popular

also Jasnah from Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson, quite popular as well. I think in popculture we have a lot of characters like that, maybe you should dive into fantasy more?

Kombinator · February 10

I don't mind that storyline, but the greater problem is, that all 3 plays it. Breton supremacists in the Covenant, and we get some Dunmer, and Nord ones in the Ebonheart as well.

It would be nice to see different story types for each faction.

For Bretons i would have it focused more on the common strife, and no real racism. After all the Breton race itself is a mixed one. A GoT style everyone wants to be king, and the Redguards, and Orcs are caught in the middle. It would fit the Breton's history of constant inner conflict. They are an ironic bunch for that. If you read their history then it seems, that the Bretons had more civil war, than war against outsiders. Like a LOT more.

The Covenant would be focused on the race's differences, and every single one would have racist elements. The main conflict would be making the alliance work with the Dunmer. The Dunmer are racist against both humans, and argonians, and the argonians were enslaved for a long time. So it is obvious, that there is a conflict there.

The Aldmeri dominion should get rid of the racism to everyone, and get a different approach as main story. Not sure what exactly though. We need a conflict for sure, but race card already played with the Ebonheart, and regular civil war is played at the Breton. Maybe it would be the Queen/King who is the villain for a change, an our job would be dethrone him/her. For once we would be on the rebels side.