Make Storm Atro synergy for ALL 11 group members

Flaaklypa

This synergy "bugs" out quite often allowing several members to get the synergy even though its supposed to only be given to 1 player. I think it would be nice if they just made it a full on feature to allow all the 11 other group members to be able to take the synergy. This would also make sorcerers (mag or stam) competetive in score pushing, competing with the necro colossus which i think would be nice aswell.

Unlike Colossus when it first launch, this doesnt need its own cooldown, since every synergy has a 20 sec cooldown at base anyway.

What do you guys think?

Onefrkncrzypope

That would cause major class stack. Too much of that already. Pass

Juhasow

That would make it collosus 2.0. Imagine group dropping collosus and atro having both major vulnerability and major berserk active at the same time.

Kadoin

Imagine PvP...

WrathOfInnos

Great idea. It would not cause class stacking, because all synergies are on a 20s cooldown, therefore 3 Sorcerers would be more than enough to supply maximum uptime on the buff. This is exactly the same as Necromancer colossus having a 20s cooldown.

If you look at the magnitude of the buff it’s also weaker than Major Vuln. Both last 8s, but Major Berserk is only 25% vs Major Vuln at 30%. Also consider that Major Berserk is additive with other damage done increases (like CP’s, Slayer and Ancient Knowledge) so the “25%” actually results in closer to a 16% damage increase for those 8s. At maximum uptime, this means that 3 Sorcerers coordinating their ultimate timing could increase DPS of allies by 6-7% (or about 2% increase per Sorcerer ult, with a hard cap of 3 ults).

Necro Colossus is only additive with other Vulnerabilites (Zens, MK, Engulfing, and Minor), which means the “30%” is around 25% in an optimized group. This results in 3 coordinated Necro ults adding 10% to group DPS (or about 3% per Necro ult, with the same hard cap of 3).

So effectively this would make the Storm Atro about 2/3 the strength of a Colossus in terms of a group buff. And it would be pointless to have more than 3 of each in a group. It also requires each recipient to find and synergize for the buff, which rewards coordinated gameplay (not just free damage with no action like the Necro ult). The Storm Atro itself is a good single target ultimate, while Colossus is a good AoE ultimate, so they are different in this sense, but neither is fully superior.

Edit: It’s also worth pointing out that the caster benefits from the Major Vuln on Colossus, but the caster of a Storm Atro cannot receive their own Major Berserk, which means in a trial group only 7/8 DPS can benefit from each cast.

Edit 2: There’s also some precedent for opening up synergies to all 11 group members after the change to orb. In fact this same code could be reused for easy implementation.

MashmalloMan

Power Creep..

WrathOfInnos

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Power Creep..

Not a whole lot of power creep, but it would shift the meta mag group from 3 Necros, 1 Sorc, 4 DKs to 3 Necros, 3 Sorcs, 2 DKs. With the upcoming DK buffs in 2 weeks there’s probably not going to be much DPS difference between these group comps even if Storm Atro multi-synergy happens.

Either way, it’s looking like Slayer Magblades are going to be dead again, since Poisons won’t trigger Catalyst anymore, and DKs are about to be the highest DPS by far with the new Elfbane set. So we will inevitably have class stacking and power creep regardless.

For stam groups, a multi-synergy Storm Atro would make having a few stam Sorcs beneficial. This would be massive to countering the stamcro-stacking meta we’ve had for 9 months now (with maybe 1 Stamplar and 1 DK for debuffs, if the supports aren’t using PotL and Stone Giant). Right now stam sorc is one of the least desirable builds in trials, up there with both stam and mag warden DPS.

Squidgaurd

.

Cathexis

Kadoin wrote: »

Imagine PvP...

... There are already a dozen group sets ruining pvp.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Power Creep..

Group buffs are off the charts bluntly deliberate power creep over 9000.

zvavi

I think that all synergies should be for the whole group+give 2 unique synergies to nb and dk, then balance it around synergies so you will want 2 of each class in the end (more or less) for the sake of class diversity in trials

karekiz

zvavi wrote: »

I think that all synergies should be for the whole group+give 2 unique synergies to nb and dk, then balance it around synergies so you will want 2 of each class in the end (more or less) for the sake of class diversity in trials

But then we can't go

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx bashing on our keyboard vs the other 7 Lok users.

I do agree though that every class should have a raid wide synergy, not only for the sake that it would make it more manageable. Ever with rebalance to the skills. For example Conduit would scale based on players activating up to X amount, after Y seconds then it will explode doing damage based on total players contribution to the skill.

Runefang

No thanks, the end result is that 2 classes take 50% of a trial spots. 3 sorcs and 3 necros in every group.

WrathOfInnos

Runefang wrote: »

No thanks, the end result is that 2 classes take 50% of a trial spots. 3 sorcs and 3 necros in every group.

Have you seen the current meta?

Magicka groups have 6/12 (50%) Dragonknights and Stamina groups have 8/12 (67%) Necromancers.

Honestly seeing maximum 3/12 (25%) of a single class in a meta trial group sounds really refreshing. I can’t remember the last time that occurred.


Examples of trial group comps from 4D and MC:

https://www.esologs.com/reports/9QtBRV6z7gA8FHnd#fight=53&type=damage-done

https://www.esologs.com/reports/zvtVpCZm921Fd3bP#fight=57&type=damage-done


Edit: I do think that a more even spread of classes would be fun. IMO the ideal group comp should be 2 each of the 6 classes. Having 1 or 3 of something should be a very slight loss, not noticeably different than the optimal group. If you get to the point of 0 of one class, or stacking 4 or more of a single class, it becomes more punishing. Group comp shouldn’t ever make clearing content impossible, but it should make things suboptimal for competitive score pushing, and the loss from stacking all of one class should outweigh the gain from imperfectly balanced classes.

This change would be a small step toward this scenario. And I support any other unique class group buffs that would make them desirable in raids, but with a limit to prevent 6 or 8 of the same build being required.

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Power Creep..

Not a whole lot of power creep, but it would shift the meta mag group from 3 Necros, 1 Sorc, 4 DKs to 3 Necros, 3 Sorcs, 2 DKs. With the upcoming DK buffs in 2 weeks there’s probably not going to be much DPS difference between these group comps even if Storm Atro multi-synergy happens.

Either way, it’s looking like Slayer Magblades are going to be dead again, since Poisons won’t trigger Catalyst anymore, and DKs are about to be the highest DPS by far with the new Elfbane set. So we will inevitably have class stacking and power creep regardless.

For stam groups, a multi-synergy Storm Atro would make having a few stam Sorcs beneficial. This would be massive to countering the stamcro-stacking meta we’ve had for 9 months now (with maybe 1 Stamplar and 1 DK for debuffs, if the supports aren’t using PotL and Stone Giant). Right now stam sorc is one of the least desirable builds in trials, up there with both stam and mag warden DPS.

Don't get me wrong, as a stam sorc main I'd love it, but it's still something ZOS has to think about. Do we remember the reactions to Major Vulnerability on the PTS? It changed everything and it's still being balance to this day. It took how many patches?

WrathOfInnos

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Power Creep..

Not a whole lot of power creep, but it would shift the meta mag group from 3 Necros, 1 Sorc, 4 DKs to 3 Necros, 3 Sorcs, 2 DKs. With the upcoming DK buffs in 2 weeks there’s probably not going to be much DPS difference between these group comps even if Storm Atro multi-synergy happens.

Either way, it’s looking like Slayer Magblades are going to be dead again, since Poisons won’t trigger Catalyst anymore, and DKs are about to be the highest DPS by far with the new Elfbane set. So we will inevitably have class stacking and power creep regardless.

For stam groups, a multi-synergy Storm Atro would make having a few stam Sorcs beneficial. This would be massive to countering the stamcro-stacking meta we’ve had for 9 months now (with maybe 1 Stamplar and 1 DK for debuffs, if the supports aren’t using PotL and Stone Giant). Right now stam sorc is one of the least desirable builds in trials, up there with both stam and mag warden DPS.

Don't get me wrong, as a stam sorc main I'd love it, but it's still something ZOS has to think about. Do we remember the reactions to Major Vulnerability on the PTS? It changed everything and it's still being balance to this day. It took how many patches?

Yeah for sure, no forum suggestion should be implemented without serious thought. I’m just of the opinion that this one would be good.

As for power creep, I’ll put it this way. In Elsweyr and Scalebreaker we had no limit to Major Vuln stacking. Groups of 8 Necros were stacking over 60% uptime on the debuff, resulting in more than 15% group DPS increase. Now that is hard capped at 40% uptime for 10% group DPS, or a 5% reduction in group DPS compared to previous patches.

As I mentioned before, 3 Storm Atros in rotation could potentially provide about 16% more damage with 40% uptime, or around 6% DPS to the buff recipients if timed perfectly. But keep in mind that this change only applies to 6/8 DPS in a group (one was already receiving the buff from the single synergy, and the caster still cannot use the synergy). So the total group DPS increase from this change would be sub-5%, barely making up the value lost from the addition of a Major Vuln cooldown.

That’s also not considering the effects of stacking 3 Sorcs in a group, which generally speaking seems to be a slight DPS loss over more magDKs or Stamcros (otherwise we’d see competitive groups with 3 Magcros + 5 Magsorcs or 3 Stamcros + 5 Stamsorcs, both of which are unheard of in the endgame community).

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Power Creep..

Not a whole lot of power creep, but it would shift the meta mag group from 3 Necros, 1 Sorc, 4 DKs to 3 Necros, 3 Sorcs, 2 DKs. With the upcoming DK buffs in 2 weeks there’s probably not going to be much DPS difference between these group comps even if Storm Atro multi-synergy happens.

Either way, it’s looking like Slayer Magblades are going to be dead again, since Poisons won’t trigger Catalyst anymore, and DKs are about to be the highest DPS by far with the new Elfbane set. So we will inevitably have class stacking and power creep regardless.

For stam groups, a multi-synergy Storm Atro would make having a few stam Sorcs beneficial. This would be massive to countering the stamcro-stacking meta we’ve had for 9 months now (with maybe 1 Stamplar and 1 DK for debuffs, if the supports aren’t using PotL and Stone Giant). Right now stam sorc is one of the least desirable builds in trials, up there with both stam and mag warden DPS.

Don't get me wrong, as a stam sorc main I'd love it, but it's still something ZOS has to think about. Do we remember the reactions to Major Vulnerability on the PTS? It changed everything and it's still being balance to this day. It took how many patches?

Yeah for sure, no forum suggestion should be implemented without serious thought. I’m just of the opinion that this one would be good.

As for power creep, I’ll put it this way. In Elsweyr and Scalebreaker we had no limit to Major Vuln stacking. Groups of 8 Necros were stacking over 60% uptime on the debuff, resulting in more than 15% group DPS increase. Now that is hard capped at 40% uptime for 10% group DPS, or a 5% reduction in group DPS compared to previous patches.

As I mentioned before, 3 Storm Atros in rotation could potentially provide about 16% more damage with 40% uptime, or around 6% DPS to the buff recipients if timed perfectly. But keep in mind that this change only applies to 6/8 DPS in a group (one was already receiving the buff from the single synergy, and the caster still cannot use the synergy). So the total group DPS increase from this change would be sub-5%, barely making up the value lost from the addition of a Major Vuln cooldown.

That’s also not considering the effects of stacking 3 Sorcs in a group, which generally speaking seems to be a slight DPS loss over more magDKs or Stamcros (otherwise we’d see competitive groups with 3 Magcros + 5 Magsorcs or 3 Stamcros + 5 Stamsorcs, both of which are unheard of in the endgame community).

This would help stam sorcs, but it also helps mag sorc a little too much. They already provide 2 group synergies via Lightning Flood and Atro, but they also provide Minor Prophecy, I've been saying for a long time that stam sorc needs their own Group Tool and while I think this synergy is the answer, it shouldn't be so easy for Mag Sorcs to get it, when they're already capable of providing so much.

The charged atro should get the group synergy, but finally complete the request every stam sorc has asked for and change it to physical aoe damage. Maybe buff the greater atro to provide the synergy for the original caster, but keep the full group synergy for a physical atro morph.

Then I'd be on board.. Sorry mag sorcs. You need to share.

zvavi

MashmalloMan wrote: »

This would help stam sorcs, but it also helps mag sorc a little too much. They already provide 2 group synergies via Lightning Flood and Atro, but they also provide Minor Prophecy, I've been saying for a long time that stam sorc needs their own Group Tool and while I think this synergy is the answer, it shouldn't be so easy for Mag Sorcs to get it, when they're already capable of providing so much.

The charged atro should get the group synergy, but finally complete the request every stam sorc has asked for and change it to physical aoe damage. Maybe buff the greater atro to provide the synergy for the original caster, but keep the full group synergy for a physical atro morph.

Then I'd be on board.. Sorry mag sorcs. You need to share.

Currently flood is dps loss, maybe after pts it will get it's place on bar again, but calling it two synergies to group while other classes can synergies with the whole group is bs. (Looking at you, templars and necros, warden healers too). People use sorc tank in vCR because mag sorc is relatively bad rn. And you are telling me mag sorcs need to share? Lol.

I say it make it the other way around, give the physical dmg atro self synergy for you lokkestiiz, and keep group synergy to mag.

^ok that was salt just kidding. But seriously though, dont see why cant we get nice things for everyone, and make all classes wanted in pve environment.

Celestro

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Power Creep..

Not a whole lot of power creep, but it would shift the meta mag group from 3 Necros, 1 Sorc, 4 DKs to 3 Necros, 3 Sorcs, 2 DKs. With the upcoming DK buffs in 2 weeks there’s probably not going to be much DPS difference between these group comps even if Storm Atro multi-synergy happens.

Either way, it’s looking like Slayer Magblades are going to be dead again, since Poisons won’t trigger Catalyst anymore, and DKs are about to be the highest DPS by far with the new Elfbane set. So we will inevitably have class stacking and power creep regardless.

For stam groups, a multi-synergy Storm Atro would make having a few stam Sorcs beneficial. This would be massive to countering the stamcro-stacking meta we’ve had for 9 months now (with maybe 1 Stamplar and 1 DK for debuffs, if the supports aren’t using PotL and Stone Giant). Right now stam sorc is one of the least desirable builds in trials, up there with both stam and mag warden DPS.

Don't get me wrong, as a stam sorc main I'd love it, but it's still something ZOS has to think about. Do we remember the reactions to Major Vulnerability on the PTS? It changed everything and it's still being balance to this day. It took how many patches?

Yeah for sure, no forum suggestion should be implemented without serious thought. I’m just of the opinion that this one would be good.

As for power creep, I’ll put it this way. In Elsweyr and Scalebreaker we had no limit to Major Vuln stacking. Groups of 8 Necros were stacking over 60% uptime on the debuff, resulting in more than 15% group DPS increase. Now that is hard capped at 40% uptime for 10% group DPS, or a 5% reduction in group DPS compared to previous patches.

As I mentioned before, 3 Storm Atros in rotation could potentially provide about 16% more damage with 40% uptime, or around 6% DPS to the buff recipients if timed perfectly. But keep in mind that this change only applies to 6/8 DPS in a group (one was already receiving the buff from the single synergy, and the caster still cannot use the synergy). So the total group DPS increase from this change would be sub-5%, barely making up the value lost from the addition of a Major Vuln cooldown.

That’s also not considering the effects of stacking 3 Sorcs in a group, which generally speaking seems to be a slight DPS loss over more magDKs or Stamcros (otherwise we’d see competitive groups with 3 Magcros + 5 Magsorcs or 3 Stamcros + 5 Stamsorcs, both of which are unheard of in the endgame community).

This would help stam sorcs, but it also helps mag sorc a little too much. They already provide 2 group synergies via Lightning Flood and Atro, but they also provide Minor Prophecy, I've been saying for a long time that stam sorc needs their own Group Tool and while I think this synergy is the answer, it shouldn't be so easy for Mag Sorcs to get it, when they're already capable of providing so much.

The charged atro should get the group synergy, but finally complete the request every stam sorc has asked for and change it to physical aoe damage. Maybe buff the greater atro to provide the synergy for the original caster, but keep the full group synergy for a physical atro morph.

Then I'd be on board.. Sorry mag sorcs. You need to share.

I'm also a stamsorc main but I don't think providing a full group Atro synergy for both specs is too much of an issue just from the perspective of how stam vs mag is/should be. And that is that stam brings more damage to the table while mag provides more utility, the latter of which is certainly where those extra synergies would come into play. I see where you're coming from with magsorcs having so much going on with themselves versus their stam counterparts and all that, but I'm all for the sorc class receiving great and welcome changes as a whole. Its on Zos to stop screwing up on giving stamsorc the short end of the stick.

Cant lie though. In a way, I almost feel like the Air Atronach granting the user the Major Berserk buff in addition to the ally makes more sense while the Greater Storm Atronach provides a group buff. Maybe the ally and self version lasting longer than the group version? I dunno. Ultimately, I'd still prefer the group buff for everybody however.