Nightblades - Would You Make This Trade?

fred4

NO, because reasons

Solariken wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

It's fine as it is, although i think detect pots should last for bit longer and/or have a wider range.

As a magblade who is both the victim of these and who uses them to hunt other nightblades - my default and only potion is Immov / Detect / Magicka - it's an emphatic NO to extending the duration or the range! Those potions are crazy efficient as they are.

But @fred4 my man, you didn't read the OP. Of course I wouldn't advocate for extending the duration of the current detect pot iteration... read again.

I did read your OP. Did you read my other post? I'd slot Radiant Magelight. The problem with those detection skills is that you currently have to be really disciplined to keep them in your rotation and most people don't use them properly. With your potion you could stay on the attack and reactively use Magelight / Expert Hunter as needed. That will make a hell of a difference. Then there's AOE. Subterranean and spin to win. Nightblade will be helpless against that.

Templars? So what is Jabs exactly, huh? Would it be ... AOE? I know we're getting into the nitty gritty here. Would you say a cloaking nightblade should be hit for full damage from Jabs or only for the AOE component of Jabs when they are the cloaking single target? Would you trust ZOS to get subtleties like that right? Also: If you use cloak, fine, the templar can't gap close, but other than that the nightblade is a sitting duck. It's cloak - then what? You haven't healed. You cast Healing Ward, you take full damage the next GCD. You go on the counter attack, you still haven't healed. Nope. I really don't see this working against templars. It will be a nightmare. Currently, at least, I do have a chance to get away, even if it's difficult.

Today's magden: Northern Storm, Deep Fissure, Shock Master Staff, maybe Arctic Blast. All AOE all the time and they can see you 100% of the time? No, thank you. Now I know the Master Staff needs a target, so it's not as bad as I make it out. I don't know, man. Take magplar again. Solar Barrage. Crescent Sweep. Puncturing Sweep. All AOE and they can see you 100% of the time. Mjeh. You're trading the devil for the beelzebub.

Then it's the gameplay implications you aren't grasping mate - let's say someone pops this new detect pot on you and starts rolling AoEs...

You just Shuffle/PE+Sprint then Cloak.

Now you're outside of the melee hot zone and while they can see you, they can't target you to gap close or stun, which means they have to physically close the gap or pepper you with things like Bombard or Fissure. And even if they hit you it just deals damage and doesn't break/waste your Cloak.

Doesn't that sound like a more fair and consistent detect mechanic? The way it is now they just shut you down and laugh.

I'm reasonably happy with my lot in open world. I'd be for much smaller changes. For example, if Healing Ward didn't knock me out of cloak, that would already be huge for me.

What you're suggesting is just so different, it's almost a different class. It also depends on speed. As a templar I'm already for having raw speed to keep jabs on target. As a magblade I'm built for maximum speed, but the speed, the stam sustain and the cloak and RAT sustain, all of that has pretty much boxed me into a corner where I'm relying on Caluurion for burst. I'm happy with my build, but I make a lot of sacrifices and this sounds like the same may be needed.

RavenSworn

NO, because reasons

Actually, I rather this:

Cloak is no longer broken by DoTs. However they continue to take damage by DoTs as per normal. Cloak is broken by AoE damage but will 'miss' direct damage if it was casted timely.

Gilvoth

NO, because reasons

no.
invisibility cloak is fine as it is.

Solariken

YES, I'd love a more skillful and consistent Cloaking experience

Gilvoth wrote: »

no.
invisibility cloak is fine as it is.

Lots of "no" votes from players who have never set foot in battlegrounds

Gilvoth

NO, because reasons

Solariken wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

no.
invisibility cloak is fine as it is.

Lots of "no" votes from players who have never set foot in battlegrounds

i battleground.
have no way of knowing anyone that voted nor how or what they do in eso.
claiming insulting assumptions to smear other peoples opinions publicly is not feedback.
many are not here to give feedback, they main Goal is to smear and degrade any and all whom disagree with their opinions.

Solariken

YES, I'd love a more skillful and consistent Cloaking experience

Gilvoth wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

no.
invisibility cloak is fine as it is.

Lots of "no" votes from players who have never set foot in battlegrounds

i battleground.
have no way of knowing anyone that voted nor how or what they do in eso.
claiming insulting assumptions to smear other peoples opinions publicly is not feedback.
many are not here to give feedback, they main Goal is to smear and degrade any and all whom disagree with their opinions.

I've seen you in Cyro, but I've done thousands of BGs and never seen you in one. It's not a smear it's relevant info to the topic at hand

Iskiab

NO, because reasons

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Roll dodge then cloak. Repeat as necessary till you get away. In combat bug is the only thing that exposes myself and is a huge issue. May be why they gave us darloc brae. 99% of the time in combat bug still isn't enough for my enemy to get me. I have many nightblades. Some are for damage and some are for laughing while being damn near unkillable. Shade range too short to be real effective. RAT is a must while mist form is a great option and is on my bar as well mist form costs more. You want to live you need swift on jewelry.

I agreed, but the only problem is I’ve discovered swift is just as effective on all mag classes. If a MagWarden or Magtemplar is like me and uses swift you aren’t getting away unless you stack a lot more of it then me.

If you separate the speed from cloak itself you’ll discover it’s not cloak that’s letting you survive, it’s your speed. Any class can do the same thing with good healing and recover their health unless you’re fighting multiple people or a sorc with streak.

High speed I’ve found actually works best on a MagWarden because you can kite with speed and use shimmer to prevent projectile damage.

Deathlord92

Your idea isn’t terrible but what you are not thinking about is nb awful healing.

Solariken

YES, I'd love a more skillful and consistent Cloaking experience

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Your idea isn’t terrible but what you are not thinking about is nb awful healing.

I actually don't think nightblade healing is bad for either spec when Cloak works.

Stamblade: Vigor>Roll>Cloak>Rally is a full health heal.

Magblade with Swallow and Rapid Regen is completely sufficient for me with Resto Ult for emergency.

Zelos

Eh if you're a good player you shouldnt be cloaking right in front of someone. It's a defensive tool to get away from fights or used at a distance to out heal dots that you couldn't do if you were outside of it. It shouldn't be spammed like most people do or just hide in it. Like a DKs major mending shield, it's meant to give a class with little healing to become untargetable and heal then come out and fight again. I think there needs to be more class based purges in the game if anything. Dark cloak before was my go to, since cloak was the only skill that is really punished if used wrong... i.e. you waste 4k magicka or so, a global cooldown, and time. So dark cloak before when it granted minor protection after it ended gave you something should the cloak break before it's time expired, so my resources and time dont go to waste:) I think they need to change the buff on shadowy disguise as a whole, I mean honestly I cant think or a more useless buff then that... or add on to it. It's a defensive skill with a damage buff essentially, its counterintuitive.

Iskiab

NO, because reasons

Solariken wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Your idea isn’t terrible but what you are not thinking about is nb awful healing.

I actually don't think nightblade healing is bad for either spec when Cloak works.

Stamblade: Vigor>Roll>Cloak>Rally is a full health heal.

Magblade with Swallow and Rapid Regen is completely sufficient for me with Resto Ult for emergency.

Depends on the setting for magblade. If someone gets a burst combo off on you in somewhere like a BG you can die in 3-4 seconds.

Swallow Soul’s healing is pretty weak, rapid regen is good but I hate how it can go on someone else when your own health is low. With just those two in a BG I’ve found it’s nowhere near enough.

I usually use radiating regen in BGs because it’ll at least almost always hit me. I tried rapid regen on my warden.. bleh. All it takes is one new player to be squishy and not healing themselves and it’s next to useless. Forget about being able to preload it before engaging like you can with vigor too, almost guaranteed to go on someone else.

That’s why in a BG I usually spend half my time healing. As a mag all it takes is one new player in your group to not be healing themselves and you get cut off from being able to heal yourself. There are even some games where there are teammates I try to avoid because being around them consistently gets me killed, especially on flag games. I’d rather 1v2 then 2v2 with a new player.

nublife01

NO, because reasons

Solariken wrote: »

PvP as a nightblade (with Shadowy Disguise) is feast or famine. The mechanics surrounding Cloak make it either incredibly powerful or completely useless depending on your opponent. There have been MANY nightblade buff requests lately, and rightfully so. I thought I'd discuss something a little different that would go a long way toward making the class more viable for battlegrounds in particular.

So to experienced nightbladers, I offer this question - would you make this trade?

Invisibility can no longer be broken by any damage, including area-of-effect damage. Detect potions now allow the user to SEE the nightblade, but the nightblade remains untargetable (like Shade). Invisibility can only be broken by opponents using "reveal" mechanics such as Expert Hunter, Magelight, Piercing Mark, and Flare.

However, Cloak no longer suppresses any damage, which means you take full damage from all DOTs on you and any AOEs that hit you. Detect pots now also last the full cooldown duration (~47 seconds, up from ~15 seconds). Piercing Mark is buffed to 6 second duration and also applies a unique +10% damage bonus versus invisible/crouching targets.

Hit me up with some votes, I'd love to know what you think.

it is not a more skillful alternative at all. if anything it lacks skill. dots barely do any damage. most of my healing is caused from my burst heals with rally and spectral bow. vigor is very meh. you will literally be massively buffing cloak as I could completely cloak an onslaught burst for example with 0 impedence. we dont need shadowy disguise messed with. in terms of stamblade we need dark cloak buffed, more fluid burst, and higher pressure from surprise attack. that is literally it.

nublife01

NO, because reasons

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Roll dodge then cloak. Repeat as necessary till you get away. In combat bug is the only thing that exposes myself and is a huge issue. May be why they gave us darloc brae. 99% of the time in combat bug still isn't enough for my enemy to get me. I have many nightblades. Some are for damage and some are for laughing while being damn near unkillable. Shade range too short to be real effective. RAT is a must while mist form is a great option and is on my bar as well mist form costs more. You want to live you need swift on jewelry.

no you just need to be nord or woodelf and l2p. literally this entire thread is a l2p issue. you also need to learn how to kite with cloak. roll dodging is like 10% of it. the direction you cloak/kite is 90% from experience kiting 20 people with detect pots on them. there is literally nothing wrong with shadowy disguise. dont touch it we've been gutted enough as it is.

Vyvrhel

Solariken wrote: »

However, Cloak no longer suppresses any damage, which means you take full damage from all DOTs on you and any AOEs that hit you. Detect pots now also last the full cooldown duration (~47 seconds, up from ~15 seconds). Piercing Mark is buffed to 6 second duration and also applies a unique +10% damage bonus versus invisible/crouching targets.[/b]

I don't get it with the damage surpression, do you mean the Dark cloak Minor protection?

Iskiab

NO, because reasons

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

However, Cloak no longer suppresses any damage, which means you take full damage from all DOTs on you and any AOEs that hit you. Detect pots now also last the full cooldown duration (~47 seconds, up from ~15 seconds). Piercing Mark is buffed to 6 second duration and also applies a unique +10% damage bonus versus invisible/crouching targets.[/b]

I don't get it with the damage surpression, do you mean the Dark cloak Minor protection?

Shadowy Disguise stops all dot damage while you’re cloaked.

Solariken

YES, I'd love a more skillful and consistent Cloaking experience

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

However, Cloak no longer suppresses any damage, which means you take full damage from all DOTs on you and any AOEs that hit you. Detect pots now also last the full cooldown duration (~47 seconds, up from ~15 seconds). Piercing Mark is buffed to 6 second duration and also applies a unique +10% damage bonus versus invisible/crouching targets.[/b]

I don't get it with the damage surpression, do you mean the Dark cloak Minor protection?

No this thread is specifically about the Shadowy Disguise morph. I should have been more clear about that, sorry.

sproattt

Cloak used to cleanse dots back in the day before Templars even had a purpose for cleansing, as did Mutagen. Now Plars and Wardens can cleanse on demand, the main issue is PvP performance. I'm King on Stamblade but when PvP is messing you about there's no skill or action you can do to negate the horrendous game that we are currently in.

Fix the performance, load screens crashes or whatever you wanna call it before the classes can be balanced, the game is FUHKCKHKED beyond comprehension but ZoS don't give a toss, yes you can think that it will be fixed in the next quarter or whatever ZoS States but in reality the games worse now than it was in the beginning when released; it's two steps back one step forward for these cats.

Cavedog

Gilvoth wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

no.
invisibility cloak is fine as it is.

....
many are not here to give feedback, they main Goal is to smear and degrade any and all whom disagree with their opinions.

....gas lighting .....again.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

no.
invisibility cloak is fine as it is.

Lots of "no" votes from players who have never set foot in battlegrounds

BG’s is pretty much all i do on my stamblade. All i ever see are sorcs and templars, more and more necros showing up. When i do see another NB all they usual are doing is sitting back some where sniping like ding *** or are really good, not because of cloak, but because they are highly skilled at their class.

Cloak is not effective when you’re holding a relic. Its not effective when holding the ball. Its not effective when on a flag and just spamming it because you arent capturing.

So im not sure where you’re going with this. People say “no” because OP’s idea isn’t good, not because they’ve never stepped into BG’s.

The skill has already been nerfed several times including removing the DoT cleanse and vigor breaking cloak.

Besides camo hunter i always slot detect potions and vast majority of NB’s out there have no idea whats happening when they are “cloaked” but still being bursted down.

dazee

NO, because reasons

No, becuase this would not make pvp more fun, not for most nightblades and not for those trying to kill nightblades most likely. Cloak as it is right now is fine and has plenty of counterplay.

Sahidom

Vote - No

Personally, a "dodge" status effect would be a solid additive to the skill.

For example, when you activate cloak, or its morphs, then you immediately gain dodge roll protection for the initial 1.6 seconds

Cloak duration/effect 3.0s)
Dodge roll (1.6s)

The NB benefits from an immediate respite from attacks to evade, reposition, escape pressure etc. The cost of Cloak is high, and will burn any player out of resources, if used excessively back to back.

Yes, this allows NB to passively use magic to pay for a dodge roll. Its roughly higher cost without CP cost reductions, and diversifies NB defenses.

Food for thought.

JinxxND

NO, because reasons

Shadowy disguise is fine as is, they should do something to make the detection methods work better against it like increase duration ie piercing mark and reliability of them working ie camo hunter. Cloak doesn't need to be touched.

The class has the worse healing so it needs cloak to work the way it does, the skill is either incredibly strong usually against potatoes players or incredibly useless against skilled players that know how to pull people out of cloak with more reliable skills than camo hunter/mage light like bombard etc.

idk

NO, because reasons

Solariken wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

PvP as a nightblade (with Shadowy Disguise) is feast or famine. The mechanics surrounding Cloak make it either incredibly powerful or completely useless depending on your opponent.

If you are only using cloak then this would be correct. Being that a skilled player is not a one trick pony the quoted comment loses accuracy. Since the question is being posed to experienced NBs then the entire premise is false.

So this is not an issue concerning cloak but the overall players skill level and how they build out their character.

The premise is not false, do you even battleground? You can get away with some Shade acrobatics in open world, sometimes, but sure as hell not in battlegrounds with 5 Sorcs Streaking you down and 3 Dks dunking you into Oblivion. On PC/NA you can count the number of regular nightblades in high MMR on one hand. But sure, it's a L2P issue

So now this conversation is only open to those who BG. So I say yes I BG then you come back with I have to BG on a NB often enough.

I mentioned just one situation. It still stands that a skill NB is not a one trick pony that you are making them out to be. I really doubt I need to cover every situation to make that point.

Solariken wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

PvP as a nightblade (with Shadowy Disguise) is feast or famine. The mechanics surrounding Cloak make it either incredibly powerful or completely useless depending on your opponent.

If you are only using cloak then this would be correct. Being that a skilled player is not a one trick pony the quoted comment loses accuracy. Since the question is being posed to experienced NBs then the entire premise is false.

So this is not an issue concerning cloak but the overall players skill level and how they build out their character.

The premise is not false, do you even battleground? You can get away with some Shade acrobatics in open world, sometimes, but sure as hell not in battlegrounds with 5 Sorcs Streaking you down and 3 Dks dunking you into Oblivion. On PC/NA you can count the number of regular nightblades in high MMR on one hand. But sure, it's a L2P issue

My comments are correct in Cyrodiil and BGs. Players that really on a single skill for survival do not survive long regardless of the class they play or the classes they are up against.

JinxxND

NO, because reasons

I also think dark cloak should be buffed to synergies with the rest of the nb passives and skills like shadowy disguise with surprise attack/concealed weapon and possibly increase the healing on it by a little bit, also increase the shadow barrier passive by 2 seconds to accommodate not having to wear 2p of heavy armor to use the skill as an armor buff where your major resolve drops while the skill is active.

Anyron

NO, because reasons

I would agree only when hots are supressed too when cloaked

TwiceBornStar

NO, because reasons

I really like how Shadowy Disguise works. It's not too overpowered and there are ways to counter it. I like the fact that it's not always a reliable tactic. If it was this game would be boring.

kalunte

YES, I'd love a more skillful and consistent Cloaking experience

i voted yes but regarding how floating combat text actually works, any decent player who starts AoE-ing around will be able to see excactly where you are anytime and it wont fix anything ^^

i'd rather have the cloak transfert your char to another plan taking no dmg at all for 2sec including aoe but remove all offensive passives from it and stuns tied to it or whatever. keep those buffs for stealth, not for invisibility.

the very annoying thing about claok is that the game is made so AoE are basic things included in every single average build off all classe but NB (who actually need to slot a skill to counter it...) and counters cloak without any effort needed from the opponent: dk breath and leap / temp jabs and sweep / sorc streak and lightning form / warden shalks and ult / necro blastbone and ult.

in a duel, its laughable but actually obvious and they are ways too work around this aoes, but when it comes to fights including multiple ppl you'll just get AoE-d/countered without even being focused. and that sucks.

N.B: using AoE reducing buffs does not prevent from being revealed so scrou them.