Does poison apply to Wall of Fire?

CMDR_Un1k0rn

There's a bit of a discussion about this in a server and I was wondering if this is true?

Iskiab

What’s your question? It’s not clear. Do you mean if you have a poison enchantment on the destro bar will it proc with wall of elements? Then yea it will.

Enchants proc from light and heavy attacks and weapon skills. Both blade cloak and wall of elements will proc the enchants from the bar they were cast from.

InaMoonlight

Iskiab wrote: »

What’s your question? It’s not clear. Do you mean if you have a poison enchantment on the destro bar will it proc with wall of elements? Then yea it will.

Enchants proc from light and heavy attacks and weapon skills. Both blade cloak and wall of elements will proc the enchants from the bar they were cast from.

Short answer would be yes, it does still proc casting Wall Of Elements unless on CD

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Iskiab wrote: »

What’s your question? It’s not clear. Do you mean if you have a poison enchantment on the destro bar will it proc with wall of elements? Then yea it will.

Enchants proc from light and heavy attacks and weapon skills. Both blade cloak and wall of elements will proc the enchants from the bar they were cast from.

Fair point. Allow me to clarify. The server was discussing alchemy poison. I don't know at all as I don't currently use poisons. (Bit pointless and actually detrimental to PvE tanking I find)

p00tx

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

What’s your question? It’s not clear. Do you mean if you have a poison enchantment on the destro bar will it proc with wall of elements? Then yea it will.

Enchants proc from light and heavy attacks and weapon skills. Both blade cloak and wall of elements will proc the enchants from the bar they were cast from.

Fair point. Allow me to clarify. The server was discussing alchemy poison. I don't know at all as I don't currently use poisons. (Bit pointless and actually detrimental to PvE tanking I find)

*Deleted since new information makes this response incorrect. Carry on.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

p00tx wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

What’s your question? It’s not clear. Do you mean if you have a poison enchantment on the destro bar will it proc with wall of elements? Then yea it will.

Enchants proc from light and heavy attacks and weapon skills. Both blade cloak and wall of elements will proc the enchants from the bar they were cast from.

Fair point. Allow me to clarify. The server was discussing alchemy poison. I don't know at all as I don't currently use poisons. (Bit pointless and actually detrimental to PvE tanking I find)

Glyphs and alchemical poisons share the same cool-down, and they share the same proc conditions.

Thank you.

blendertoes

p00tx wrote: »

Glyphs and alchemical poisons share the same cool-down, and they share the same proc conditions.

This is incorrect. Glyphs and poisons do not share the same cooldowns and have slightly different proc conditions.

Damage glyphs, such as flame, shock, etc have a 4 second cooldown and status glyphs, such as weapon damage, have a 10 second cooldown. These can be lowered by using the infused trait or Torug's Pact set. Glyphs always proc on cooldown from LA, HA or weapon abilities. Ground AoE DoTs, such as Wall of Elements or Volley, will continue to proc the enchantment from the weapon used to apply them even after a bar swap. Enchantments have separate timers so, for example, you can proc a weapon damage glyph with a back bar weapon and still proc a flame damage glyph on your front bar.

Poisons are applied 20% of the time on LA, HA and weapon abilities with a 10 second cooldown. The poisons share a cooldown timer, so you cannot proc a front bar and back bar poison at the same time.

The 20% number associated with glyphs is the chance to apply the associated status effect of an elemental damage glyph. This value can be raised with the charged trait or the Elemental Force passive from the destruction staff skill line.

p00tx

blendertoes wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Glyphs and alchemical poisons share the same cool-down, and they share the same proc conditions.

This is incorrect. Glyphs and poisons do not share the same cooldowns and have slightly different proc conditions.

Damage glyphs, such as flame, shock, etc have a 4 second cooldown and status glyphs, such as weapon damage, have a 10 second cooldown. These can be lowered by using the infused trait or Torug's Pact set. Glyphs always proc on cooldown from LA, HA or weapon abilities. Ground AoE DoTs, such as Wall of Elements or Volley, will continue to proc the enchantment from the weapon used to apply them even after a bar swap. Enchantments have separate timers so, for example, you can proc a weapon damage glyph with a back bar weapon and still proc a flame damage glyph on your front bar.

Poisons are applied 20% of the time on LA, HA and weapon abilities with a 10 second cooldown. The poisons share a cooldown timer, so you cannot proc a front bar and back bar poison at the same time.

The 20% number associated with glyphs is the chance to apply the associated status effect of an elemental damage glyph. This value can be raised with the charged trait or the Elemental Force passive from the destruction staff skill line.

I stand corrected

Iskiab

blendertoes wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Glyphs and alchemical poisons share the same cool-down, and they share the same proc conditions.

This is incorrect. Glyphs and poisons do not share the same cooldowns and have slightly different proc conditions.

Damage glyphs, such as flame, shock, etc have a 4 second cooldown and status glyphs, such as weapon damage, have a 10 second cooldown. These can be lowered by using the infused trait or Torug's Pact set. Glyphs always proc on cooldown from LA, HA or weapon abilities. Ground AoE DoTs, such as Wall of Elements or Volley, will continue to proc the enchantment from the weapon used to apply them even after a bar swap. Enchantments have separate timers so, for example, you can proc a weapon damage glyph with a back bar weapon and still proc a flame damage glyph on your front bar.

Poisons are applied 20% of the time on LA, HA and weapon abilities with a 10 second cooldown. The poisons share a cooldown timer, so you cannot proc a front bar and back bar poison at the same time.

The 20% number associated with glyphs is the chance to apply the associated status effect of an elemental damage glyph. This value can be raised with the charged trait or the Elemental Force passive from the destruction staff skill line.

I’m always a little fuzzy on the status effect thing and poisons. So I have a question.

If I’m running DW on my back bar with quick cloak, and go Nirn MH with a poison and OH infused weapon damage. Is that the most efficient way to get a front bar enchant, poison and the weapon damage glyph? I’m not sure how blade cloak interacts with DW enchants/poisons.

DW will halve the weapon damage enchant, what about the poison effects?

blendertoes

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m always a little fuzzy on the status effect thing and poisons. So I have a question.

If I’m running DW on my back bar with quick cloak, and go Nirn MH with a poison and OH infused weapon damage. Is that the most efficient way to get a front bar enchant, poison and the weapon damage glyph? I’m not sure how blade cloak interacts with DW enchants/poisons.

DW will halve the weapon damage enchant, what about the poison effects?

Status effects are a different proc than enchantment/poisons. Based off of what I have read in the past, I do not believe that alchemical poisons proc the poisoned status effect, but I haven't tested it myself. Alcast has a good summary of status effects on his page.

For stamina, I use a back bar infused bow with a weapon damage enchant and Arrow Barrage to apply it and front bar DW with nirnhoned axe MH with a sharpened dagger OH with double DoT poisons on both. As long as Arrow Barrage is refreshed on time, the uptime for the weapon damage enchant will be 100% (usually in the high 80's/low 90's for me because I'm not that good). I have seen some testing done that showed that running poisons on both DW weapons is slightly better than running one poison and one enchantment. I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics, but I would guess that having two poisons increases the chance to fire on cooldown and the poisons do much more damage than the half strength enchants even if they don't fire quite as often. Blade cloak would proc an enchant from your back bar, but it would be half strength.

DW does not reduce the damage of poisons.

MashmalloMan

blendertoes wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m always a little fuzzy on the status effect thing and poisons. So I have a question.

If I’m running DW on my back bar with quick cloak, and go Nirn MH with a poison and OH infused weapon damage. Is that the most efficient way to get a front bar enchant, poison and the weapon damage glyph? I’m not sure how blade cloak interacts with DW enchants/poisons.

DW will halve the weapon damage enchant, what about the poison effects?

Status effects are a different proc than enchantment/poisons. Based off of what I have read in the past, I do not believe that alchemical poisons proc the poisoned status effect, but I haven't tested it myself. Alcast has a good summary of status effects on his page.

If poisons do, it would be 3% per tick since they're single target dots. Nothing extremely reliable or to be concerned with.

The proc chances for status effects are:

20% enchants.
10% direct damage.
5% direct aoe damage.
3% dot single target ticks.
1% dot aoe ticks.

For calculating things like charged and destructions staves. Assume the base proc chance equals 100%, when 100% is added via destruction staff or 220% from charged, you add that to the base 100%. This means charged doesn't equal double, it's actually triple, about quadruple when using a destruction staff (420%). That is an 84% chance for an enchant to proc its status effect.

blendertoes wrote: »

For stamina, I use a back bar infused bow with a weapon damage enchant and Arrow Barrage to apply it and front bar DW with nirnhoned axe MH with a sharpened dagger OH with double DoT poisons on both. As long as Arrow Barrage is refreshed on time, the uptime for the weapon damage enchant will be 100% (usually in the high 80's/low 90's for me because I'm not that good). I have seen some testing done that showed that running poisons on both DW weapons is slightly better than running one poison and one enchantment. I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics, but I would guess that having two poisons increases the chance to fire on cooldown and the poisons do much more damage than the half strength enchants even if they don't fire quite as often. Blade cloak would proc an enchant from your back bar, but it would be half strength.

DW does not reduce the damage of poisons.

Using DW with poisons doesn't mean you get double the chance to proc them because you have 2 weapons. You're still only using 1 poison with the 10s cd. The better question is, how does a skill like Twins Slashes or Flurry behave that have multiple hits. I know single target applied dots do not proc poisons/enchants, but Twin Slashes does 2 direct hits and flurry is all direct damage now, with 5 hits total.

MashmalloMan

Iskiab wrote: »

blendertoes wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Glyphs and alchemical poisons share the same cool-down, and they share the same proc conditions.

This is incorrect. Glyphs and poisons do not share the same cooldowns and have slightly different proc conditions.

Damage glyphs, such as flame, shock, etc have a 4 second cooldown and status glyphs, such as weapon damage, have a 10 second cooldown. These can be lowered by using the infused trait or Torug's Pact set. Glyphs always proc on cooldown from LA, HA or weapon abilities. Ground AoE DoTs, such as Wall of Elements or Volley, will continue to proc the enchantment from the weapon used to apply them even after a bar swap. Enchantments have separate timers so, for example, you can proc a weapon damage glyph with a back bar weapon and still proc a flame damage glyph on your front bar.

Poisons are applied 20% of the time on LA, HA and weapon abilities with a 10 second cooldown. The poisons share a cooldown timer, so you cannot proc a front bar and back bar poison at the same time.

The 20% number associated with glyphs is the chance to apply the associated status effect of an elemental damage glyph. This value can be raised with the charged trait or the Elemental Force passive from the destruction staff skill line.

I’m always a little fuzzy on the status effect thing and poisons. So I have a question.

If I’m running DW on my back bar with quick cloak, and go Nirn MH with a poison and OH infused weapon damage. Is that the most efficient way to get a front bar enchant, poison and the weapon damage glyph? I’m not sure how blade cloak interacts with DW enchants/poisons.

DW will halve the weapon damage enchant, what about the poison effects?

Consider something. Quick cloak only ticks every 2s. You would be better off using Deadly Cloak with double infused weapons for your back bar. Nirnhoned is only applicable for the weapon bar you're using at the time, dots will update their damage based on the stats of the character, this is why you front load all your damage stats since you spend upwards of 70-80% on your front bar.. Same with sharpened, precise, charged, etc, only work for the bar you're holding the weapons on.

So if you're using Deadly Cloak, you have more chances to fire off back bar enchantments. Double infused with 2x damage based enchantments have their cooldowns line up perfectly at 2s each. With a damage tick every second. You can get poison/disease/absorb stamina to proc off CD. I'd drop the weapon damage enchant for this reason, unless you wanted more aoe damage vs single target.

Alchemical Poisons on front bar is BiS, but costly. Just make sure the enchantment front bar doesn't match what you use back bar in case you run content that you don't want to waste the poisons on.

Iskiab

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

blendertoes wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Glyphs and alchemical poisons share the same cool-down, and they share the same proc conditions.

This is incorrect. Glyphs and poisons do not share the same cooldowns and have slightly different proc conditions.

Damage glyphs, such as flame, shock, etc have a 4 second cooldown and status glyphs, such as weapon damage, have a 10 second cooldown. These can be lowered by using the infused trait or Torug's Pact set. Glyphs always proc on cooldown from LA, HA or weapon abilities. Ground AoE DoTs, such as Wall of Elements or Volley, will continue to proc the enchantment from the weapon used to apply them even after a bar swap. Enchantments have separate timers so, for example, you can proc a weapon damage glyph with a back bar weapon and still proc a flame damage glyph on your front bar.

Poisons are applied 20% of the time on LA, HA and weapon abilities with a 10 second cooldown. The poisons share a cooldown timer, so you cannot proc a front bar and back bar poison at the same time.

The 20% number associated with glyphs is the chance to apply the associated status effect of an elemental damage glyph. This value can be raised with the charged trait or the Elemental Force passive from the destruction staff skill line.

I’m always a little fuzzy on the status effect thing and poisons. So I have a question.

If I’m running DW on my back bar with quick cloak, and go Nirn MH with a poison and OH infused weapon damage. Is that the most efficient way to get a front bar enchant, poison and the weapon damage glyph? I’m not sure how blade cloak interacts with DW enchants/poisons.

DW will halve the weapon damage enchant, what about the poison effects?

Consider something. Quick cloak only ticks every 2s. You would be better off using Deadly Cloak with double infused weapons for your back bar. Nirnhoned is only applicable for the weapon bar you're using at the time, dots will update their damage based on the stats of the character, this is why you front load all your damage stats since you spend upwards of 70-80% on your front bar.. Same with sharpened, precise, charged, etc, only work for the bar you're holding the weapons on.

So if you're using Deadly Cloak, you have more chances to fire off back bar enchantments. Double infused with 2x damage based enchantments have their cooldowns line up perfectly at 2s each. With a damage tick every second. You can get poison/disease/absorb stamina to proc off CD. I'd drop the weapon damage enchant for this reason, unless you wanted more aoe damage vs single target.

Alchemical Poisons on front bar is BiS, but costly. Just make sure the enchantment front bar doesn't match what you use back bar in case you run content that you don't want to waste the poisons on.

I see what you’re saying, but I’m mag so approaching it from a different angle.

I was testing out an infused weapon damage off hand on my back bar with quick cloak as a bonus sorta. On the dummy at least it was close to 100% uptime with quick cloak, better than scathing mage on PTS. WoE doesn’t move with me so meh, it sucks for pvp, but I’m trying to figure out how to setup BRP DW on a magplar. Nirn MH is since it’s my back bar I want stronger heals.

I’m more looking at front bar lightning shock sharpened, back bar DW BRP MH Nirn (poison?) and OH infused weapon damage.

MashmalloMan

Iskiab wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

blendertoes wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Glyphs and alchemical poisons share the same cool-down, and they share the same proc conditions.

This is incorrect. Glyphs and poisons do not share the same cooldowns and have slightly different proc conditions.

Damage glyphs, such as flame, shock, etc have a 4 second cooldown and status glyphs, such as weapon damage, have a 10 second cooldown. These can be lowered by using the infused trait or Torug's Pact set. Glyphs always proc on cooldown from LA, HA or weapon abilities. Ground AoE DoTs, such as Wall of Elements or Volley, will continue to proc the enchantment from the weapon used to apply them even after a bar swap. Enchantments have separate timers so, for example, you can proc a weapon damage glyph with a back bar weapon and still proc a flame damage glyph on your front bar.

Poisons are applied 20% of the time on LA, HA and weapon abilities with a 10 second cooldown. The poisons share a cooldown timer, so you cannot proc a front bar and back bar poison at the same time.

The 20% number associated with glyphs is the chance to apply the associated status effect of an elemental damage glyph. This value can be raised with the charged trait or the Elemental Force passive from the destruction staff skill line.

I’m always a little fuzzy on the status effect thing and poisons. So I have a question.

If I’m running DW on my back bar with quick cloak, and go Nirn MH with a poison and OH infused weapon damage. Is that the most efficient way to get a front bar enchant, poison and the weapon damage glyph? I’m not sure how blade cloak interacts with DW enchants/poisons.

DW will halve the weapon damage enchant, what about the poison effects?

Consider something. Quick cloak only ticks every 2s. You would be better off using Deadly Cloak with double infused weapons for your back bar. Nirnhoned is only applicable for the weapon bar you're using at the time, dots will update their damage based on the stats of the character, this is why you front load all your damage stats since you spend upwards of 70-80% on your front bar.. Same with sharpened, precise, charged, etc, only work for the bar you're holding the weapons on.

So if you're using Deadly Cloak, you have more chances to fire off back bar enchantments. Double infused with 2x damage based enchantments have their cooldowns line up perfectly at 2s each. With a damage tick every second. You can get poison/disease/absorb stamina to proc off CD. I'd drop the weapon damage enchant for this reason, unless you wanted more aoe damage vs single target.

Alchemical Poisons on front bar is BiS, but costly. Just make sure the enchantment front bar doesn't match what you use back bar in case you run content that you don't want to waste the poisons on.

I see what you’re saying, but I’m mag so approaching it from a different angle.

I was testing out an infused weapon damage off hand on my back bar with quick cloak as a bonus sorta. On the dummy at least it was close to 100% uptime with quick cloak, better than scathing mage on PTS. WoE doesn’t move with me so meh, it sucks for pvp, but I’m trying to figure out how to setup BRP DW on a magplar. Nirn MH is since it’s my back bar I want stronger heals.

I’m more looking at front bar lightning shock sharpened, back bar DW BRP MH Nirn (poison?) and OH infused weapon damage.

Oh okay. I usually go deadly cloak, vigor then front bar, so nirn isn't as helpful, I have that on the front. If you stay on back bar bar for defence a lot, for sure.

I wouldn't bother with poison enchant frankly. I'd go with absorb magicka or stamina for a little boost in sustain. The damage is similar and you will barely ever get the status effect to make it worth while. At least in my experience. I've just recently swapped fire/poison for absorb stamina/wpd and it's much better. I was also using double infused.

I used fire/poison to get more dots firing off for azureblight, but after instances of 20+ procs from both of them, I saw around 5-9ticks from the status effect dots. Was pretty underwhelming for me and didn't do what I really needed it for. The 200 stam or mag every 2s is pretty good though, no RNG required and it still does some damage, especially if it's only on a nirn weapon...