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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Sorcerer class spammable
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »Wanting class spammables is such boring and facepalm worthy request. Like of all the possible abilities in the game you ask for something everyone has access to 2 or 3? Is that really something you want to waste class skills? Hell stamsorc has like 2 abilities, do you really need the 3rd one to be something you can get from every weapon and psijic skill line...
Stam Sorc main here. I don't. I want a delayed burst ability, single target dot and ultimate. We're at 0.5/3 now.
0.5 because Bound Armaments does not help with delayed burst like Shalks, Power of the Light or Blastbones. It's even easier to dodge than NB bow proc and it's delay isn't enough to time it with anything. It's just a more cost efficient, more damaging ranged rapid strikes that you need 4 weaves to proc making it a spammable you only use every 4 gcds.
Mag Sorc has these in spades. 2 delayed burst abilities, 2 pets for single/AOE target dots, execute and 5/6 Magicka based ultimate morphs. Forgive my lack of empathy for any Mag Sorc wanting a spammable.
If armaments was similar to Morkulding proc, it could be a great pressure tool for sorcs (and take advantage of daedric curse by the way). Instead of that, ZoS gave us a weird mixture of dot + burst outside the GCDSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Solaire✭✭✭MagSorc is in a really bad place right now anyone who says otherwise are probably Sorc haters, don't be biased and ruin the game for others.0 -
Squidgaurd✭✭✭all for a spammable with the change to dizzy the class has been lacking in effective burst dmg and kindof locked into using 2h a spammable would at least open the possibility of using another weapon type.0 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭Nah, forget the spammable...what would rock for Stamsorc would be a stam version of say Mages fury! Should be able to call down lightning of some sort, even as stam.0
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Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorc don't need a spammable.
For multiple reasons.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Because the best way to play a sorc is with a destruction staff and because a new spammable will be very similar to those already available, there is no reason to have a new one.3 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Sorc don't need a spammable.
For multiple reasons.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Because the best way to play a sorc is with a destruction staff and because a new spammable will be very similar to those already available, there is no reason to have a new one.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
Oh, ok, so Puncturing Strikes, Lava Whip, Screaming Cliff Racer and Funnel Health are all identical. Funny how that never occurred to anyone. Oh wait, it didn't because it's obviously wrong. I think you're 95% is probably an over-estimation.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorc don't need a spammable.
For multiple reasons.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Because the best way to play a sorc is with a destruction staff and because a new spammable will be very similar to those already available, there is no reason to have a new one.
You can use a bow with elemental weapon (well, any weapon will do the trick)Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?
This comparison is so wrong in so many levels, it aches... putting force shock (which is the unmorphed skill) in the same sentence that venom arrow (which is a DoT) only reveals that you don't know very well what each skill does. Do a favor to yourself and do not compared them again.
Force shock is a spammable. With one morph (force pulse) it adds extra dmg on enemies around the target which have a status active (and it is huge dmg), Crushing shock, on the other hand has an interrupt + off balance associated, that adds 10% extra dmg in case you put 75 points in ritual (exploiter). Only molten whip can do that and it's a melee skill. That skil is a triple threat, because each tick has independent crit chance. On a 33% critical chance stat, one of the beams is almost granted to crit, and the 3 of them can crit at the same time. There's a reason why people combines force shock with mother's sorrow.
Venom arrow is a DoT, with around 1/3 burst dmg of Shock/Pulse
After launch, Poison arrow was the first morph you got access in the bow line, while force shock was the third (the first was destro touch). During 1T (if I remember well), ZoS decided to move all spammables to the first slot, so it was easier for any new player to get a spamable kill as soon as possible. Some of those changes included moving whip from the 3rd slot in ardent flame, to the first (swiched positions with chains). In the case of bow, Snipe switched places with poison arrow... and in the case of detro... guess what. So if ZoS is telling you force shock IS a spammable, and you don't want to accept that, then IDK what else I could say to convince you.Edited by Xvorg on February 1, 2020 4:57PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭[
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?
This comparison is so wrong in so many levels, it aches... putting force shock (which is the unmorphed skill) in the same sentence that venom arrow (which is a DoT) only reveals that you don't know very well what each skill does. Do a favor to yourself and do not compared them again.
Force shock is a spammable. With one morph (force pulse) it adds extra dmg on enemies around the target which have a status active (and it is huge dmg), Crushing shock, on the other hand has an interrupt + off balance associated, that adds 10% extra dmg in case you put 75 points in ritual (exploiter). Only molten whip can do that and it's a melee skill. That skil is a triple threat, because each tick has independent crit chance. On a 33% critical chance stat, one of the beams is almost granted to crit, and the 3 of them can crit at the same time. There's a reason why people combines force shock with mother's sorrow.
Venom arrow is a DoT, with around 1/3 burst dmg of Shock/Pulse
After launch, Poison arrow was the first morph you got access in the bow line, while force shock was the third (the first was destro touch). During 1T (if I remember well), ZoS decided to move all spammables to the first slot, so it was easier for any new player to get a spamable kill as soon as possible. Some of those changes included moving whip from the 3rd slot in ardent flame, to the first (swiched positions with chains). In the case of bow, Snipe switched places with poison arrow... and in the case of detro... guess what. So if ZoS is telling you force shock IS a spammable, and you don't want to accept that, then IDK what else I could say to convince you.
"This comparison is so wrong in so many levels, it aches... putting force shock (which is the unmorphed skill) in the same sentence that venom arrow (which is a DoT) only reveals that you don't know very well what each skill does. Do a favor to yourself and do not compared them again."
Yes, please condescend to me more about how little you think I know about what a skill does. Venom arrow is an interrupt, my dude, thus the correlation. It's obviously not meant to be a spammable. People use Force Shock as a spammable for the same reason that people have used Reverse Slice as a spammable in the past - because it is able to function as a spammable, but that's not the purpose of the ability. The fact that they are in the same sentence is irrelevant.
"Force shock is a spammable. With one morph (force pulse) it adds extra dmg on enemies around the target which have a status active (and it is huge dmg), Crushing shock, on the other hand has an interrupt + off balance associated, that adds 10% extra dmg in case you put 75 points in ritual (exploiter). Only molten whip can do that and it's a melee skill. That skil is a triple threat, because each tick has independent crit chance. On a 33% critical chance stat, one of the beams is almost granted to crit, and the 3 of them can crit at the same time. There's a reason why people combines force shock with mother's sorrow."
People use Mother's Sorrow because it is Meta. People use Force Shock for it's 3 direct damage procs. The fact that it has 3 chances to crit is simply a consequence of the three direct damage procs, and it functions better with other sets that require direct damage to proc. People aren't putting 75 points into Exploiter because it's a waste of CP, but thanks for the education. You've illustrated how little you know about the game you're claiming to educate me about.
"After launch, Poison arrow was the first morph you got access in the bow line, while force shock was the third (the first was destro touch). During 1T (if I remember well), ZoS decided to move all spammables to the first slot, so it was easier for any new player to get a spamable kill as soon as possible. Some of those changes included moving whip from the 3rd slot in ardent flame, to the first (swiched positions with chains). In the case of bow, Snipe switched places with poison arrow... and in the case of detro... guess what. So if ZoS is telling you force shock IS a spammable, and you don't want to accept that, then IDK what else I could say to convince you."
So, information from a 6 year old version of the game is supposed to illustrate what, exactly? This must be correct, because the new BiS spammable, Imbue weapon, is the fir... Oh, wait, you're telling me that the newest, BiS spammable is not the first ability on the list? Why wouldn't they be consistent, if by your 6 year old logic the first ability on the list is meant to be a spammable? Oopsie. I guess the only people using Force Shock are the ones that dislike Elemental Weapon as a spammable, simply because it functions as one and is not necessarily meant to be THE spammable, which is consistent with my earlier statement about Reverse Slice. Maybe you should read up a little bit on the current version of the game.Edited by Kahnak on February 1, 2020 5:28PMTombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorc don't need a spammable.
For multiple reasons.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Because the best way to play a sorc is with a destruction staff and because a new spammable will be very similar to those already available, there is no reason to have a new one.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
Oh, ok, so Puncturing Strikes, Lava Whip, Screaming Cliff Racer and Funnel Health are all identical. Funny how that never occurred to anyone. Oh wait, it didn't because it's obviously wrong. I think you're 95% is probably an over-estimation.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?
God you Know nothing Jon Snow.
Melee spammable aren't homogenized with ranged one.
If you take all Magicka ranged spammable you will find that they have very similar damage/cost + a secondary effect that is very small.
Force shock and it's morphs are a spammable, with cost/damage like other Magicka ranged spammable.
Necro skulls is bad because slow travel time.
Warden cliff racer is bad because travel time.
The only good ranged spammable are elemental weapon (best damage), force pulse (most reliable) and the offensive version of strife (most defensive one).
There is no reason to have an other spammable.
Also, for Xvorg, because how elemental weapon works (LA travel time) it's only a good spammable for ranged weapons.
1 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Sorc don't need a spammable.
For multiple reasons.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Because the best way to play a sorc is with a destruction staff and because a new spammable will be very similar to those already available, there is no reason to have a new one.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
Oh, ok, so Puncturing Strikes, Lava Whip, Screaming Cliff Racer and Funnel Health are all identical. Funny how that never occurred to anyone. Oh wait, it didn't because it's obviously wrong. I think you're 95% is probably an over-estimation.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?
God you Know nothing Jon Snow.
Melee spammable aren't homogenized with ranged one.
If you take all Magicka ranged spammable you will find that they have very similar damage/cost + a secondary effect that is very small.
Force shock and it's morphs are a spammable, with cost/damage like other Magicka ranged spammable.
Necro skulls is bad because slow travel time.
Warden cliff racer is bad because travel time.
The only good ranged spammable are elemental weapon (best damage), force pulse (most reliable) and the offensive version of strife (most defensive one).
There is no reason to have an other spammable.
Also, for Xvorg, because how elemental weapon works (LA travel time) it's only a good spammable for ranged weapons.
"Melee spammable aren't homogenized with ranged one."
But that's what you asserted, not me. Let me point you to your previous statement, as you must have forgotten.
" All spammable are 95% homogeneous."
But I'm the one who knows nothing, apparently.
"Necro skulls is bad because slow travel time.
Warden cliff racer is bad because travel time."
This must be why people are using Force Shock instead of these abilities. Oh, wait, they aren't? They are using their superior class spammables? Huh. Well, that totally flies in the face of whatever point you were trying to make with this.
"The only good ranged spammable are elemental weapon (best damage), force pulse (most reliable) and the offensive version of strife (most defensive one)."
It obviously hasn't occurred to you, because you've demonstrated that you know nothing about endgame, that travel time isn't particularly important if the BiS monster set is Zaan and you're standing right next to the boss. Additionally, the class spammables you mentioned are also affected directly by class passives that weapon skill lines completely ignore, making the class spammable the best option in most circumstances.
Liko is in the top 5% of DPS in the game. Look at how many of his peers are using Ele Weapon or Force Shock in favor of a class spammable.
Mag Warden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryz5dtrSw94
Mag Necro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAXezqkL2Js
Mag DK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkeyt4ifeM
The only instance where Elemental Weapon is getting more damage than a class spammable is with NB. Considering that NB has been on the receiving end of several nerfs AND that many NB will still use the class spammable in trials for the heal makes it a pretty frail example to throw out there.
Sorcs and Templars HAVE to use Elemental weapon as it is THE ranged spammable if you don't want to lose DPS.
But you're right. I don't know anything and you know better.Edited by Kahnak on February 1, 2020 7:09PMTombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorc don't need a spammable.
For multiple reasons.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Because the best way to play a sorc is with a destruction staff and because a new spammable will be very similar to those already available, there is no reason to have a new one.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
Oh, ok, so Puncturing Strikes, Lava Whip, Screaming Cliff Racer and Funnel Health are all identical. Funny how that never occurred to anyone. Oh wait, it didn't because it's obviously wrong. I think you're 95% is probably an over-estimation.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?
God you Know nothing Jon Snow.
Melee spammable aren't homogenized with ranged one.
If you take all Magicka ranged spammable you will find that they have very similar damage/cost + a secondary effect that is very small.
Force shock and it's morphs are a spammable, with cost/damage like other Magicka ranged spammable.
Necro skulls is bad because slow travel time.
Warden cliff racer is bad because travel time.
The only good ranged spammable are elemental weapon (best damage), force pulse (most reliable) and the offensive version of strife (most defensive one).
There is no reason to have an other spammable.
Also, for Xvorg, because how elemental weapon works (LA travel time) it's only a good spammable for ranged weapons.
"Melee spammable aren't homogenized with ranged one."
But that's what you asserted, not me. Let me point you to your previous statement, as you must have forgotten.
" All spammable are 95% homogeneous."
But I'm the one who knows nothing, apparently.
"Necro skulls is bad because slow travel time.
Warden cliff racer is bad because travel time."
This must be why people are using Force Shock instead of these abilities. Oh, wait, they aren't? They are using their superior class spammables? Huh. Well, that totally flies in the face of whatever point you were trying to make with this.
"The only good ranged spammable are elemental weapon (best damage), force pulse (most reliable) and the offensive version of strife (most defensive one)."
It obviously hasn't occurred to you, because you've demonstrated that you know nothing about endgame, that travel time isn't particularly important if the BiS monster set is Zaan and you're standing right next to the boss. Additionally, the class spammables you mentioned are also affected directly by class passives that weapon skill lines completely ignore, making the class spammable the best option in most circumstances.
Liko is in the top 5% of DPS in the game. Look at how many of his peers are using Ele Weapon or Force Shock in favor of a class spammable.
Mag Wardenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryz5dtrSw94
Mag Necrohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAXezqkL2Js
Mag DKhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkeyt4ifeM
The only instance where Elemental Weapon is getting more damage than a class spammable is with NB. Consdering that NB has been on the receiving end of several nerfs AND that many NB will still use the class spammable in trials for the heal makes it a pretty frail example to throw out there.
Sorcs and Templars HAVE to use Elemental weapon as it is THE ranged spammable if you don't want to lose DPS.
But you're right. I don't know anything and you know better.
I'm speaking about PvP. Where cliff racer and necro skull is never used. And where travel time is extremely important.
We are not speaking about the same thing obviously.0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Sorc don't need a spammable.
For multiple reasons.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Because the best way to play a sorc is with a destruction staff and because a new spammable will be very similar to those already available, there is no reason to have a new one.
1. All spammable are 95% homogeneous. They do almost the same damage with almost the same cost. Only a little thing change.
Oh, ok, so Puncturing Strikes, Lava Whip, Screaming Cliff Racer and Funnel Health are all identical. Funny how that never occurred to anyone. Oh wait, it didn't because it's obviously wrong. I think you're 95% is probably an over-estimation.
2. Force pulse and elemental weapon are already good spammable and BiS for class. They both need a destruction staff, but anyway, the only offensive weapon for sorc is destruction staff.
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?
God you Know nothing Jon Snow.
Melee spammable aren't homogenized with ranged one.
If you take all Magicka ranged spammable you will find that they have very similar damage/cost + a secondary effect that is very small.
Force shock and it's morphs are a spammable, with cost/damage like other Magicka ranged spammable.
Necro skulls is bad because slow travel time.
Warden cliff racer is bad because travel time.
The only good ranged spammable are elemental weapon (best damage), force pulse (most reliable) and the offensive version of strife (most defensive one).
There is no reason to have an other spammable.
Also, for Xvorg, because how elemental weapon works (LA travel time) it's only a good spammable for ranged weapons.
"Melee spammable aren't homogenized with ranged one."
But that's what you asserted, not me. Let me point you to your previous statement, as you must have forgotten.
" All spammable are 95% homogeneous."
But I'm the one who knows nothing, apparently.
"Necro skulls is bad because slow travel time.
Warden cliff racer is bad because travel time."
This must be why people are using Force Shock instead of these abilities. Oh, wait, they aren't? They are using their superior class spammables? Huh. Well, that totally flies in the face of whatever point you were trying to make with this.
"The only good ranged spammable are elemental weapon (best damage), force pulse (most reliable) and the offensive version of strife (most defensive one)."
It obviously hasn't occurred to you, because you've demonstrated that you know nothing about endgame, that travel time isn't particularly important if the BiS monster set is Zaan and you're standing right next to the boss. Additionally, the class spammables you mentioned are also affected directly by class passives that weapon skill lines completely ignore, making the class spammable the best option in most circumstances.
Liko is in the top 5% of DPS in the game. Look at how many of his peers are using Ele Weapon or Force Shock in favor of a class spammable.
Mag Wardenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryz5dtrSw94
Mag Necrohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAXezqkL2Js
Mag DKhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkeyt4ifeM
The only instance where Elemental Weapon is getting more damage than a class spammable is with NB. Consdering that NB has been on the receiving end of several nerfs AND that many NB will still use the class spammable in trials for the heal makes it a pretty frail example to throw out there.
Sorcs and Templars HAVE to use Elemental weapon as it is THE ranged spammable if you don't want to lose DPS.
But you're right. I don't know anything and you know better.
I'm speaking about PvP. Where cliff racer and necro skull is never used. And where travel time is extremely important.
We are not speaking about the same thing obviously.
I suppose it's important to make that distinction before you start insulting other people's intelligence, isn't it? This post looks remarkably akin to backpedaling, considering you use the phrase BiS quite a bit and BiS is a term reserved almost exclusively for PvE.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?
This comparison is so wrong in so many levels, it aches... putting force shock (which is the unmorphed skill) in the same sentence that venom arrow (which is a DoT) only reveals that you don't know very well what each skill does. Do a favor to yourself and do not compared them again.
Force shock is a spammable. With one morph (force pulse) it adds extra dmg on enemies around the target which have a status active (and it is huge dmg), Crushing shock, on the other hand has an interrupt + off balance associated, that adds 10% extra dmg in case you put 75 points in ritual (exploiter). Only molten whip can do that and it's a melee skill. That skil is a triple threat, because each tick has independent crit chance. On a 33% critical chance stat, one of the beams is almost granted to crit, and the 3 of them can crit at the same time. There's a reason why people combines force shock with mother's sorrow.
Venom arrow is a DoT, with around 1/3 burst dmg of Shock/Pulse
After launch, Poison arrow was the first morph you got access in the bow line, while force shock was the third (the first was destro touch). During 1T (if I remember well), ZoS decided to move all spammables to the first slot, so it was easier for any new player to get a spamable kill as soon as possible. Some of those changes included moving whip from the 3rd slot in ardent flame, to the first (swiched positions with chains). In the case of bow, Snipe switched places with poison arrow... and in the case of detro... guess what. So if ZoS is telling you force shock IS a spammable, and you don't want to accept that, then IDK what else I could say to convince you.
People use Mother's Sorrow because it is Meta. People use Force Shock for it's 3 direct damage procs. The fact that it has 3 chances to crit is simply a consequence of the three direct damage procs, and it functions better with other sets that require direct damage to proc. People aren't putting 75 points into Exploiter because it's a waste of CP, but thanks for the education. You've illustrated how little you know about the game you're claiming to educate me about.
So, information from a 6 year old version of the game is supposed to illustrate what, exactly? This must be correct, because the new BiS spammable, Imbue weapon, is the fir... Oh, wait, you're telling me that the newest, BiS spammable is not the first ability on the list? Why wouldn't they be consistent, if by your 6 year old logic the first ability on the list is meant to be a spammable? Oopsie. I guess the only people using Force Shock are the ones that dislike Elemental Weapon as a spammable, simply because it functions as one and is not necessarily meant to be THE spammable, which is consistent with my earlier statement about Reverse Slice. Maybe you should read up a little bit on the current version of the game.
Sorry, but as long as I know, magicka classes put 75 points into Thaum because it increases DoT dmg and gets the chance of extra 10% dmg on off balance targets... how i that a waste of CPs? you get around 22% extra DoT dmg and a chance to increase those ticks to 32% just by setting them of balance. If you know a better way to get that amount of dmg just on DoTs just by using 75 CPs, I'm all ears.
Regarding the position of spammables, what about discussing it with the development team? That's the explanation they gave us during PTS cycle. So if you want to corect them, feel free to do it.
Now comparing all spammables in base game with the one that came with a purchase... I don't know why they did that.... maybe they just want you to buy and grind the content instead of getting just one skill and leaving the "fun" Psijic Guild grinding, or they just forgot about that rule... we all know ZoS is not a paramount of consistencySarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭[
Force Shock is meant to be an interrupt or a cleave. You don't see people recommending Venom Arrow for a spammable, do you? Elemental Weapon is only BiS because Sorcs don't already have a spammable. ZOS has already stated that ancillary skill lines are meant to supplement your build and add variety, and not meant to be used simply because they are the only thing available.
But sure, it's ok for Sorcs not to have what every other class has as long as you don't play Sorc, right?
This comparison is so wrong in so many levels, it aches... putting force shock (which is the unmorphed skill) in the same sentence that venom arrow (which is a DoT) only reveals that you don't know very well what each skill does. Do a favor to yourself and do not compared them again.
Force shock is a spammable. With one morph (force pulse) it adds extra dmg on enemies around the target which have a status active (and it is huge dmg), Crushing shock, on the other hand has an interrupt + off balance associated, that adds 10% extra dmg in case you put 75 points in ritual (exploiter). Only molten whip can do that and it's a melee skill. That skil is a triple threat, because each tick has independent crit chance. On a 33% critical chance stat, one of the beams is almost granted to crit, and the 3 of them can crit at the same time. There's a reason why people combines force shock with mother's sorrow.
Venom arrow is a DoT, with around 1/3 burst dmg of Shock/Pulse
After launch, Poison arrow was the first morph you got access in the bow line, while force shock was the third (the first was destro touch). During 1T (if I remember well), ZoS decided to move all spammables to the first slot, so it was easier for any new player to get a spamable kill as soon as possible. Some of those changes included moving whip from the 3rd slot in ardent flame, to the first (swiched positions with chains). In the case of bow, Snipe switched places with poison arrow... and in the case of detro... guess what. So if ZoS is telling you force shock IS a spammable, and you don't want to accept that, then IDK what else I could say to convince you.
People use Mother's Sorrow because it is Meta. People use Force Shock for it's 3 direct damage procs. The fact that it has 3 chances to crit is simply a consequence of the three direct damage procs, and it functions better with other sets that require direct damage to proc. People aren't putting 75 points into Exploiter because it's a waste of CP, but thanks for the education. You've illustrated how little you know about the game you're claiming to educate me about.
So, information from a 6 year old version of the game is supposed to illustrate what, exactly? This must be correct, because the new BiS spammable, Imbue weapon, is the fir... Oh, wait, you're telling me that the newest, BiS spammable is not the first ability on the list? Why wouldn't they be consistent, if by your 6 year old logic the first ability on the list is meant to be a spammable? Oopsie. I guess the only people using Force Shock are the ones that dislike Elemental Weapon as a spammable, simply because it functions as one and is not necessarily meant to be THE spammable, which is consistent with my earlier statement about Reverse Slice. Maybe you should read up a little bit on the current version of the game.
Sorry, but as long as I know, magicka classes put 75 points into Thaum because it increases DoT dmg and gets the chance of extra 10% dmg on off balance targets... how i that a waste of CPs? you get around 22% extra DoT dmg and a chance to increase those ticks to 32% just by setting them of balance. If you know a better way to get that amount of dmg just on DoTs just by using 75 CPs, I'm all ears.
Regarding the position of spammables, what about discussing it with the development team? That's the explanation they gave us during PTS cycle. So if you want to corect them, feel free to do it.
Now comparing all spammables in base game with the one that came with a purchase... I don't know why they did that.... maybe they just want you to buy and grind the content instead of getting just one skill and leaving the "fun" Psijic Guild grinding, or they just forgot about that rule... we all know ZoS is not a paramount of consistency
"Sorry, but as long as I know, magicka classes put 75 points into Thaum because it increases DoT dmg and gets the chance of extra 10% dmg on off balance targets... how i that a waste of CPs? you get around 22% extra DoT dmg and a chance to increase those ticks to 32% just by setting them of balance. If you know a better way to get that amount of dmg just on DoTs just by using 75 CPs, I'm all ears."
Yeah, well, I guess that's irrelevant in a spammable meta, isn't it? Didn't consider that in the last patch both single target and AoE DOT abilities got nerfed. People aren't allocating 75 points into Thaum because DOT abilities are weaker now than they have ever been. If you're getting all of your information from the PTS version of the game from 6 3 years ago, there are definitely things that have changed since then. Even if you can improve your ability to do damage with a wet noodle, it doesn't take away from the fact that you can't do any substantial damage with a wet noodle.
"Regarding the position of spammables, what about discussing it with the development team? That's the explanation they gave us during PTS cycle. So if you want to corect them, feel free to do it."
During Homestead PTS? Yeah, maybe, but why PTS information from 3 years ago is still being touted as bleeding edge relevant, I have no idea. As I stated, maybe take a closer look at the current version of the game.
"Now comparing all spammables in base game with the one that came with a purchase... I don't know why they did that.... maybe they just want you to buy and grind the content instead of getting just one skill and leaving the "fun" Psijic Guild grinding, or they just forgot about that rule... we all know ZoS is not a paramount of consistency"
Oh, of course, now the information you're using only applies to skill lines that came with the purchase. I guess that's in the 3 year old PTS, too. You realize that they ended up giving away Summerset for free with the Elsweyr purchase, right? The only people who didn't receive the Psijic Skill line with their purchase are people who aren't playing the current version of the game or people who don't subscribe.Edited by Kahnak on February 1, 2020 9:09PMTombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
n0she1teR✭✭
“On the other hand stamsorc has bound armamanets, which is quite decent.”
This guy must not have used this in PvP before...0 -
Shaloknir✭✭✭Many posts state- there is existing spammable skills in weapon/guild skill lines
- giving sorcerers a spammable would make sorcerers overpowered
Firstly, I do like to point out, that my suggestion is more about class identity and aesthetics than a request for a buff. As you know my original post didn't include any numeric values. That is also why I think it is early to draw conclusions about impact the class spammable would have on balance. It doesn't necessarily mean sorcerers would become overpowered. But it would give sorcerers a choice over weapon/guild skill lines. And it would give sorcerers a skill that is lightning themed. That is more important for me than having an OP skill.
It is true that existing spammables are good and usable. It doesn't mean that sorcerers don't need or want a class spammable. It's nice to have a choice.
I see many of the views in this thread come from a place of hurt. A place where your favorite class (nightblade I assume) is underperforming. And something that makes other classes better, even aesthetically, seem unfair. Just to be clear I do think nightblades are underperforming and I do think they need a buff. And I think they need to be buffed BIG time. I read @snikerpkk post and totally agree with his assessment.
Still I'd rather see a situation where nightblades get well deserved buffs and sorcerers get class spammable. Perfect and flawless pvp balance is tricky, perhaps impossible, to achieve after all.
And if sorcerers do not get the spammable. No biggie. Life goes on.0 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭Current Bound armaments
For people ragging on bound armaments, yeah it is pretty much useless on live and a waste of a cast unless you are doing a bow build and timing 3+ things together.
Next patch it will still pretty much be useless, but look at the changes to briar. Now briar can be used for a backbar set, and stamsorcs can use BA as a Very reliable way of proccing it at a given notice or as a burst heal through briar. This opens up options to reliable run it as a backbar set and run asylum, brp, or master 2h.
Losing our old "spammable" dizzy.
Other than ruining ability diversity in the game by homogenizing an ability that is one of a kind, zos cut into the basis of what stamsorc has always been. With the death of bleed stamsorcs, the only archetype left was a highly mobile hard damage dealer. Since murkmire mobility and speed/mobility has been a joke. I would have better feeling mobility playing red light green light with the little kids in my family, atleast then maybe it wont be a laggy mess.
For hard hitting damage, the only thing left was the old knockback long cast 2 aim check high damage dizzy. Our recently new amplitude passive actually went perfectly with this since when engaging on a target you would be able to really chunk into them. This was until dizzy started losing its tooltip to become closer to a traditional spammable. I mean now it has pretty much become a normal point and click ability that just has to deal with an old clunky cast time. I wouldn't doubt it turns into a normal ability soon.
Why old dizzy was better
Stamsorc's spammable in a sense was always dizzy swing. Since mobility was stamsorcs kit, having the old 2 aim check dizzy with long cast meant we as a class had an easier time landing the usually hard to use ability. For me back in the day, I would be able to initiate dizzy then proceed to walk out of the range and back in to hit the target. If you were good enough at this you could take less damage from melee players and avoid many stuns/snares.
The higher damage and longer cast time just pairs better with sorcs only passives which are just flat damage and sustain. Newer players might like that dizzy is a really easy dumbed down version now, but stamsorc banked off of % modifiers to make dizzy hit hard. The lower dizzy's damage drops the worse stamsorcs are off, since there is nothing left to fill that gap anymore.
My ideas on a stamsorc spammable
Fill the void that dizzy is leaving. I wouldn't even be upset if zos copy and pasted old dizzy in to replace Bound Armarments. They already found it perfectly acceptable to remove a unique ult and replace it with a copy and paste of corrosive that nobody asked for.
The last thing we need is to turn into a light attack proc gimmick class like how nightblade was forced to years ago. It isnt skillbased or fun to be constantly waiting for multiple procs, and that be the replacement for a class that has been known as the hardest hitting mobility class. I would be concerned that this is where Stamsorc is heading, since this was supposed to be our "class identity" ability.0 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭resident stam sorc here with some mag, healer and petsorc experience, can tell you sorc doesn't need a spammable. the class has a solid kit as is that could certainly use some tweaking like everything else in the game and to this day the term class identity frustrates me for how vague it is since you can apply it to anything
my class doesn't have an execute and i want one cus CLASS IDENTITY (what about all the other unique things your class has) CLASS IDENTITY
the term basically translates to "i wanna be better than everyone else in the game" in my eyesEdited by Browiseth on February 5, 2020 10:24PMskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sorcerer Class Spammable Idea: CHAIN LIGHTNING!
Make it a Direct Damage conal AoE that increases in power with the number of enemies hit by the lightning (maybe like 5% per enemy hit, up to 25%).
Stamina Morph: HOWLING WINDS
Single-target morph that features Physical Damage and a wind gust animation instead of Lightning Damage. Instead of the number of enemies hit increasing damage it is instead the target's proximity to the caster (like a reverse Aurora Javelin), with an extra 25% damage if you are within melee range of the caster.
This way, magSorcs get an AoE spammable that synergizes well with their overall theme of Lightning (and buffed by Lightning Staves) and AoE and doesn't necessarily obviate single-target alternative spammables such as Elemental Weapon or Force Pulse.
Meanwhile, stamSorcs finally get their own spammable that isn't DSwing that they can use in PvE and PvP content and that fits their theme of wind mage.1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a Sorc main, I disagree strongly. In fact I’ll go the opposite direction in requesting that Liquid Lightning be brought up to par with every other class AoE so that we can actually slot it again without losing DPS.I suggested this before but I post it again.
Change liquid lightning into a lightning bolt. Single target spammable.
Morphs:
Chain lightning, converts into an area of effect ability
Storm hammer (or some other weapon), coverts into stamina ability. Single target ranged spammable. Throw lightning hammer/spear/dagger or something else at enemy. Weapon type doesnt matter, the idea of hammer comes from Thor/Mjolnir mythology.
Numbers and other details I leave to someone with better understanding of game mechanics/balance.
Tell me, why should sorc have a class spammable?
Why not? Improves class identity for example.
Your proposing removing Liquid Lightning, which is historically a key part of Sorc’s class identity with the Conduit synergy.
Have you considered the possibility that not having a class spammable is part of the class identity?I suggested this before but I post it again.
Change liquid lightning into a lightning bolt. Single target spammable.
Morphs:
Chain lightning, converts into an area of effect ability
Storm hammer (or some other weapon), coverts into stamina ability. Single target ranged spammable. Throw lightning hammer/spear/dagger or something else at enemy. Weapon type doesnt matter, the idea of hammer comes from Thor/Mjolnir mythology.
Numbers and other details I leave to someone with better understanding of game mechanics/balance.
Tell me, why should sorc have a class spammable?
because every class should have a class spammable in mag and stam.
Giving every class similar tools does not make for good class identity.1 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭I suggested this before but I post it again.
Change liquid lightning into a lightning bolt. Single target spammable.
Morphs:
Chain lightning, converts into an area of effect ability
Storm hammer (or some other weapon), coverts into stamina ability. Single target ranged spammable. Throw lightning hammer/spear/dagger or something else at enemy. Weapon type doesnt matter, the idea of hammer comes from Thor/Mjolnir mythology.
Numbers and other details I leave to someone with better understanding of game mechanics/balance.
Tell me, why should sorc have a class spammable?
Why not? Improves class identity for example.
That implies some sorc's hard hitting skills (such as frags or curse) should do less dmg due to balance issues (spammable + delayed burst on class skills = overkill). Not to mention the way the class uses pets. I'm against that, sorc burst dmg is more than OK and shouldn't be touched.
Currently the only class that has a good spammable skill and a sort of delayed burst is templar with sweep and backlash, but one is ranged and the other melee. Ranged sorc spammable + delayed burst will lead to a world in which everyone is a sorc.
I'm against that.
Excuse me, what?
All the spammables are balanced relative to each other these days, since they do approximately the same dmg and have approximately the same cost. The only rely difference comes from secondary effects (heal/status effect/interrupt) and animation. Sometimes the dmg is slightly higher (warden bird), but for a reason (it has a delay).
So please explain, how giving sorcs a replacement of crushing shock/pulse/ele weapon, with the same dmg and cost, will break (or even slightly change) their dmg numbers?
Of course it won’t. However, it will provide more class identity, and some build diversity for magsorcs, who won’t be forced into running inferno destro anymore.
And your second point is also incorrect, there are two other classes with delayed burst and spammables - necro and warden. Necro blastbones and scull are both ranged, btw.
The excuse “sorcs have delayed burst, so no spammable for them” is from 2014, when the game was completely different. Do you live in 2014? I assume yes, since wardens and necros don’t exist for you too.
2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »As a Sorc main, I disagree strongly. In fact I’ll go the opposite direction in requesting that Liquid Lightning be brought up to par with every other class AoE so that we can actually slot it again without losing DPS.I suggested this before but I post it again.
Change liquid lightning into a lightning bolt. Single target spammable.
Morphs:
Chain lightning, converts into an area of effect ability
Storm hammer (or some other weapon), coverts into stamina ability. Single target ranged spammable. Throw lightning hammer/spear/dagger or something else at enemy. Weapon type doesnt matter, the idea of hammer comes from Thor/Mjolnir mythology.
Numbers and other details I leave to someone with better understanding of game mechanics/balance.
Tell me, why should sorc have a class spammable?
Why not? Improves class identity for example.
Your proposing removing Liquid Lightning, which is historically a key part of Sorc’s class identity with the Conduit synergy.
Have you considered the possibility that not having a class spammable is part of the class identity?I suggested this before but I post it again.
Change liquid lightning into a lightning bolt. Single target spammable.
Morphs:
Chain lightning, converts into an area of effect ability
Storm hammer (or some other weapon), coverts into stamina ability. Single target ranged spammable. Throw lightning hammer/spear/dagger or something else at enemy. Weapon type doesnt matter, the idea of hammer comes from Thor/Mjolnir mythology.
Numbers and other details I leave to someone with better understanding of game mechanics/balance.
Tell me, why should sorc have a class spammable?
because every class should have a class spammable in mag and stam.
Giving every class similar tools does not make for good class identity.
Well, Liquid Lightning is getting buffed on PTS at the moment. Really hope it's enough to slot it over Channeled Acceleration again!0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's perfectly fitting that Sorcerers would rely on weapon abilities. From Morrowind's class description:
If anything, Sorcerers should probably have a boost to weapon abilities. Bound Armaments kind of has that with +Light Attack damage, but it could be moved to the base skill or added to a passive. Alternatively, a boost to enchantments would also be fitting.Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0
