When you rework the vampire could you please rename undeath as Vampires are not undead.

Thevampirenight

Well I've always had this impression that Tes vampires were unliving or in a death like state but clearly I was more right about them being unliving as Vampires more alive then dead or undead.
What makes vampires not undead is they have actual heart beats that automatically takes them out of the classification of undeath.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Melina_Cassel
144 Melina Cassel Be still my beating heart! Lyam arrived at our door at he looked simply smashing! (And, yes, contrary to popular belief, our hearts beat quite well, thank you.) How handsome the scion of the Fontbonne family looked in his finery! And, I'm pleased to say, he seemed as impressed by my appearance as I was by his. He took my hand and we were off.
Reasons they are not undead.
1.Their hearts beat like a mortals.
2. Clearly they have to breath since they can still drown. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.
3. They can eat and drink and get drunk.
4. Lamae wasn't killed but was still alive and her wound recovered on their own.
5. Only thing that might be dead about them is their blood. Otherwise they are still living beings.
6. Gist of it all they transition into a vampire from life but still retain their heartbeats and have to ability to breath eat and drink people food.

Them being undead is ridiculous because vampires have heart beats, they breath and they drown. Just like regular folk.
I do think Unliving Fortitude would make a great replacement name for Undeath.
As much as people like them being undead the lore supports them to not be undead at all. After all when does a corpse actually breath, or have a heart beat or eat like people and drink like them and get drunk?

Tes Vampires being undead makes as much sense as that Nord Hoknir losing his foot to a deathclaw bat then being able to stand up on it and walk to the village like that won't cause you to instantly fall over because your foot is what allows you to hold you weight. Plus he lost a lot of blood so he claims and no way he would be able to make it without crawling its more likely he broke his ankle. Yeah I can't buy into that either it just doesn't make sense.

Neoealth

The term undead means a deceased entity whichs mimics being alive via super natural means. So yes they are undead.

Thevampirenight

Neoealth wrote: »

The term undead means a deceased entity whichs mimics being alive via super natural means. So yes they are undead.

Vampires are not deceased. Can see this in rivenspire only those that survive blood fiends and not die from them can even become a vampire. While a blood fiend that kills its victim that victim rises as a blood fiend. Which is why the bodies have to be burned. So vampirism requires you to be alive for it to take effect and then still have a heart beat, still have to breath. Yeah undead nah. Those bloodfiends that kill and then the victim rises up as one sure they are undead. But Vampires not really. They still have living functions. It just puts them in a state of stasis so they don't age so it seems. They still eat, breath and drink or can like normal people. While their hearts still beat. Only thing that might be dead is their blood. Otherwise they are still alive. As death doesn't come till your heart stops beating and you don't need to breath anymore. Hearts beating means they are alive.

Neoealth

Just because they were alive when they become infected with molag bals supernatural goodness makes no difference. The point is they are no longer a regular living mortal. They stay "alive" by unnatural means. Almost in state of *gasp* undeath.

Thevampirenight

Neoealth wrote: »

Just because they were alive when they become infected with molag bals supernatural goodness makes no difference. The point is they are no longer a regular living mortal. They stay "alive" by unnatural means. Almost in state of *gasp* undeath.

Death in Tes can't be cured unless by divine intervention or a necromancer holds the soul into the body before it leaves the body otherwise it can't be cured unless by divine intervention at that point. . Vampirism shock suprise can be cured just by purge salts and also a witchs potion who knew death was so easy to cure why don't I use the potion and purge salts on that on that dead khajiit over there and see if its resurrects them from the dead. Oh wait it doesn't work why does it work on the vampire and not the dead khajiit .That also another factor into why they are not undead. As Death can't be cured that easy. They live in an altered state but they are still alive and being alive means they can be cured.

BaiterOfZergs

They’re considered undead in Tes. Turn undead works on them, detect undead works, any spell that hurts undead and dawnbreaker also hurts them.

Thevampirenight

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

They’re considered undead in Tes. Turn undead works on them, detect undead works, any spell that hurts undead and dawnbreaker also hurts them.

That was Skyrim Turn Undead didn't work on them in Oblivion or Morrowind. Fear humanoid spells worked however. Rebuke undead didn't work either but I think command humaniod spells worked on them.

Neoealth

"Death can't be cured"

In a fantasy setting, apparently it can.


You're basically arguing against the dictionary term.

undead
/ʌnˈdɛd/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
(of a fictional being, especially a vampire) technically dead but still animate.
"an undead monster from a movie"

Faulgor

... The next night, at an inn a little closer to my destination, my sleep was deep and dreamless. On the third night, I died.

For the first couple days of my undeath, I starved myself while I considered my fate. I relearned what I was capable of doing, and found that I was stronger, faster, tougher, and more agile than before.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay

Thevampirenight

Faulgor wrote: »

... The next night, at an inn a little closer to my destination, my sleep was deep and dreamless. On the third night, I died.

For the first couple days of my undeath, I starved myself while I considered my fate. I relearned what I was capable of doing, and found that I was stronger, faster, tougher, and more agile than before.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay

Anything coming from Daggerfall or Arena has to be considered retconned do to the lore not being the way it was and they removed half of it or retconned or reworked . Look what happened to Poor Reymon Ebonarm. It was too close to d&d so they reworked a lot of it. So it wouldn't be as close to lore accurate for those reasons. Anything from Redguard up is solid.

BaiterOfZergs

Thevampirenight wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

They’re considered undead in Tes. Turn undead works on them, detect undead works, any spell that hurts undead and dawnbreaker also hurts them.

That was Skyrim Turn Undead didn't work on them in Oblivion or Morrowind. Fear humanoid spells worked however. Rebuke undead didn't work either but I think command humaniod spells worked on them.

Well vampires change from game to game. Still wouldn’t change anything I said especially since there’s also multiple vampires in Tes. Seems you want it to align with what you want it to be because in multiple games they’re considered undead.

essi2

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

... The next night, at an inn a little closer to my destination, my sleep was deep and dreamless. On the third night, I died.

For the first couple days of my undeath, I starved myself while I considered my fate. I relearned what I was capable of doing, and found that I was stronger, faster, tougher, and more agile than before.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay

Anything coming from Daggerfall or Arena has to be considered possibly retconned do to the lore not being the way it was and they removed half of it or retconned or reworked . Look what happened to Poor Reyman Ebonarm. It was too close to d&d so they reworked a lot of it. So it wouldn't be as close. Anything from Redguard up is solid.

Just because it would fits your narrative doesn't mean it has been retconned, unless there is something directly contradicting the original lore and even then, none of the in-universe sources are 100% reliable.

At the end of the day, what matters is what people in Tamriel consider something, and they very much consider Vampires undead.

Thevampirenight

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

They’re considered undead in Tes. Turn undead works on them, detect undead works, any spell that hurts undead and dawnbreaker also hurts them.

That was Skyrim Turn Undead didn't work on them in Oblivion or Morrowind. Fear humanoid spells worked however. Rebuke undead didn't work either but I think command humaniod spells worked on them.

Well vampires change from game to game. Still wouldn’t change anything I said especially since there’s also multiple vampires in Tes. Seems you want it to align with what you want it to be because in multiple games they’re considered undead.

No its not that I want it to align with what is being shown to us. If vampires didn't have heart beat then they be undead then I can see that. Vampires in Skyrim had black souls. Could even use one for the cure if you wanted too. Vampires have souls and the transformation does not remove it from the body. So they have souls and since it didn't leave the body the body they are not dead. They are not dead till the soul leaves the body.
Eso Vampires
Gwendis can get Drunk,
They can eat and drink just fine.
They have heartbeats.
Its likely they have to breath too like All the other games vampires had too.
For them to be undead in my eyes they would have to work like Daggerfall vampires which was too close to D&d only difference was it was a disease that killed you and you revived days or weeks later from the grave. That hasn't been shown since then. They would have to have no beating heart and they must be able to survive without drowning or having to breath. Also unable to get drunk because vampires being undead wouldn't work the same way a a mortal when it comes to that.

d&d killed by the vampire rise up the next night. After a period of being dead. They are undead because they have died and rose from the grave. just like the folklore and have folklore like weaknesses. Can only drink blood anything else causes you to vomit it up because you are a corpse and corpses cannot eat.

Elder scrolls vampirism go to sleep wake up a vampire and craving blood. Hearts still beats can still eat and drink normally without throwing up.

Araneae6537

Vampires have always been classified among the undead, in TES and everywhere else, as far as I am aware. How does having a beating heart make them any more alive than the fact that they have functioning muscles enabling them to walk around? There really is no difference.

BaiterOfZergs

Thevampirenight wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

They’re considered undead in Tes. Turn undead works on them, detect undead works, any spell that hurts undead and dawnbreaker also hurts them.

That was Skyrim Turn Undead didn't work on them in Oblivion or Morrowind. Fear humanoid spells worked however. Rebuke undead didn't work either but I think command humaniod spells worked on them.

Well vampires change from game to game. Still wouldn’t change anything I said especially since there’s also multiple vampires in Tes. Seems you want it to align with what you want it to be because in multiple games they’re considered undead.

No its not that I want it to align with what is being shown to us. If vampires didn't have heart beat then they be undead then I can see that. Vampires in Skyrim had black souls. Could even use one for the cure if you wanted too. Vampires have souls and the transformation does not remove it from the body. So they have souls and since it didn't leave the body the body they are not dead. They are not dead till the soul leaves the body.
Eso Vampires
Gwendis can get Drunk,
They can eat and drink just fine.
They have heartbeats.
Its likely they have to breath too like All the other games vampires had too.
For them to be undead in my eyes they would have to work like Daggerfall vampires which was too close to D&d only difference was it was a disease that killed you and you revived days or weeks later from the grave. That hasn't been shown since then. They would have to have no beating heart and they must be able to survive without drowning or having to breath. Also unable to get drunk because vampires being undead wouldn't work the same way a a mortal when it comes to that.

No matter how you see it they’re still considered undead. Because the devs said so. You really can’t even use Oblivion as reasoning because you could use the detect life spell to detect the undead.

But here’s a quote from a Vampire that offers you vampirism in oblivion : “Yes, I can understand your trepidation. For it is not every day one is invited to join the ranks of the undead, eh? If you ever change your mind, fear not. My offer will always remain open. Simply return and speak to me about the Dark Gift, and we can proceed." - Vicente Valtieri

Hippie4927

Vampires are not completely dead nor are they completely alive. They are in a sort of state of limbo. Thus, they fall into the 'undead' category.

Ankael07

Its nothing more than a mimicry of life. Regardless of how convincing it is. You can tell that by how Dawnbreaker hurts vampires in both ESO and Skyrim (even the wielder himself)

Surely youre not gonna try to explain Meridia whats undead and whats not?

Thevampirenight

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

They’re considered undead in Tes. Turn undead works on them, detect undead works, any spell that hurts undead and dawnbreaker also hurts them.

That was Skyrim Turn Undead didn't work on them in Oblivion or Morrowind. Fear humanoid spells worked however. Rebuke undead didn't work either but I think command humaniod spells worked on them.

Well vampires change from game to game. Still wouldn’t change anything I said especially since there’s also multiple vampires in Tes. Seems you want it to align with what you want it to be because in multiple games they’re considered undead.

No its not that I want it to align with what is being shown to us. If vampires didn't have heart beat then they be undead then I can see that. Vampires in Skyrim had black souls. Could even use one for the cure if you wanted too. Vampires have souls and the transformation does not remove it from the body. So they have souls and since it didn't leave the body the body they are not dead. They are not dead till the soul leaves the body.
Eso Vampires
Gwendis can get Drunk,
They can eat and drink just fine.
They have heartbeats.
Its likely they have to breath too like All the other games vampires had too.
For them to be undead in my eyes they would have to work like Daggerfall vampires which was too close to D&d only difference was it was a disease that killed you and you revived days or weeks later from the grave. That hasn't been shown since then. They would have to have no beating heart and they must be able to survive without drowning or having to breath. Also unable to get drunk because vampires being undead wouldn't work the same way a a mortal when it comes to that.

No matter how you see it they’re still considered undead. Because the devs said so. You really can’t even use Oblivion as reasoning because you could use the detect life spell to detect the undead.

But here’s a quote from a Vampire that offers you vampirism in oblivion : “Yes, I can understand your trepidation. For it is not every day one is invited to join the ranks of the undead, eh? If you ever change your mind, fear not. My offer will always remain open. Simply return and speak to me about the Dark Gift, and we can proceed." - Vicente Valtieri

Lore has it many consider them to be a form of necromancy a reanimated corpse. They can't tell the differance between necromancy and vampirism either. To them they are souless monsters that are weak to garlic can't enter holy places they are incurable and the only cure is death for them. Their hearts are not beating, They rise up to terrorize the populace. Wouldn't be surprised if the running water folk lore existed among some populations. To them they classify them as undead and wrongfully so as they are the very opposite of all that. What is true is the weakness to sunlight and the weakness to fire. Which weakness to fire is a trait that undead but also other creatures have like Trolls.. People can think they are undead sure. That is what they think they are but that does mean its a fact nope even if they consider themselves as such.

We know that the garlic is mainly bull but for one vampire its not. There is many myths and legends about vampires in tes but none of them seem to pan out except maybe the Molag bal connection. Even that is in dispute because Alchemy vampirism is also a thing. But we know for sure Molag bal is involved with Lamae and Harkons family and maybe Verandis Ravenwatch. But we are also shown they can come from alchemy like https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Norasea and the book listed above that comes from Daggerfall says they can be created through these methods. Which we have not seen any other confirmation of or seen anything that suggests that since daggerfall. One can become a vampire through certain magical items or by the curse of a powerful wizard,
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay

idk

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

The term undead means a deceased entity whichs mimics being alive via super natural means. So yes they are undead.

Vampires are not deceased. Can see this in rivenspire only those that survive blood fiends and not die from them can even become a vampire. While a blood fiend that kills its victim that victim rises as a blood fiend. Which is why the bodies have to be burned. So vampirism requires you to be alive for it to take effect and then still have a heart beat, still have to breath. Yeah undead nah. Those bloodfiends that kill and then the victim rises up as one sure they are undead. But Vampires not really. They still have living functions. It just puts them in a state of stasis so they don't age so it seems. They still eat, breath and drink or can like normal people. While their hearts still beat. Only thing that might be dead is their blood. Otherwise they are still alive. As death doesn't come till your heart stops beating and you don't need to breath anymore. Hearts beating means they are alive.

I think you are confusing a game mechanics that makes sense as proof of your opinion.

Regardless, you seem to for get the quest as all of our blood is drained from us to complete the process. It is probably similar on Nirn as it is on Earth that we are pretty much no longer living without our blood.

So the person you quoted seems to have it correct, that vampires in ESO are undead and pretty sure that is Zos' intent. Others have provide similar suggestions. One even provides a quote that solidifies that vampires in ESO are in fact Undead.

Thevampirenight

idk wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

The term undead means a deceased entity whichs mimics being alive via super natural means. So yes they are undead.

Vampires are not deceased. Can see this in rivenspire only those that survive blood fiends and not die from them can even become a vampire. While a blood fiend that kills its victim that victim rises as a blood fiend. Which is why the bodies have to be burned. So vampirism requires you to be alive for it to take effect and then still have a heart beat, still have to breath. Yeah undead nah. Those bloodfiends that kill and then the victim rises up as one sure they are undead. But Vampires not really. They still have living functions. It just puts them in a state of stasis so they don't age so it seems. They still eat, breath and drink or can like normal people. While their hearts still beat. Only thing that might be dead is their blood. Otherwise they are still alive. As death doesn't come till your heart stops beating and you don't need to breath anymore. Hearts beating means they are alive.

I think you are confusing a game mechanics that makes sense as proof of your opinion.

Regardless, you seem to for get the quest as all of our blood is drained from us to complete the process. It is probably similar on Nirn as it is on Earth that we are pretty much no longer living without our blood.

So the person you quoted seems to have it correct, that vampires in ESO are undead and pretty sure that is Zos' intent. Others have provide similar suggestions. One even provides a quote that solidifies that vampires in ESO are in fact Undead.

Given the process is typcially done in a dream state. Which is seemed to be hinted at in that one book. They drained the blood true but she replaces it with her own blood. So the vestiges blood is taken and replaced by Lamaes blood. So think more like say getting stabbed going to the hospital and having that blood replaced because you lost so much. That is what Lamae does to the prospective vampire and then replaces the vestiges blood with hers and this would be more of a blood transfusion. I doubt she drained all of it just enough to keep the vestige alive long enough for her to transform him/her into a vampire. This is how the soul shriven is able to become a vampire because without it. Since Vampires were designed to interface with mortals not daedra they couldn't become one otherwise.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire
Lamae Beolfag was the first of her kind and like her successors, she created a bloodline. Vampires of this particular bloodline have Noxiphilic Sanguivoria rather than Porphyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris. Noxiphilic Sanguivoria allows these Vampires to not burn or weaken in sunlight, but instead become more powerful once night falls. They have other abilities as well; some, such as invisibility, they share with other bloodlines. One particular way of acquiring this strand of vampirism is through the Rite of the Scion, a ritual in which a mortal's blood is fully replaced by that of Lamae's.[

Thevampirenight

Hippie4927 wrote: »

Vampires are not completely dead nor are they completely alive. They are in a sort of state of limbo. Thus, they fall into the 'undead' category.

The state of limbo that is the best description of what they are. They did not die so their soul is still there. They are inbetween living and death. But undeath would still require you to die first then come back. Vampirism of elder scrolls does neither it puts you into that state of limbo and this limbo is what allows it to be cured.

Since vampirism does alter blood composition it was mentioned in the alchemy vampire quest in Summerset. I think that is the major factor of their state of limbo. Since their blood is altered it changes how the body typically functions and might account for their ability to stop aging all together. They are not living nor dead they are limbo inbetween both states. This could accounts for their weakness to turn undead. Because reality can mistake them for undead while also accounting for why it doesn't work and also account for some vampires being detected under detect life like some of the dawnguard vampires while others detect dead In Elder Scrolls Skyrim.

It can also account for their lack of weakness to turn undead spells all together too since not all are vulnerable to that. Some might be effected others are not effected. Depends on the state of limbo they are more in line with. The living side or the dying side. The vampire disease of Morrowind and Oblivion seemed more in tune with Life and not death so they couldn't be effected by such spells while skyrim and eso vampires are more in tune with death. The more in tune with life vampires seem to have greater sun weakness then those attuned more with death but were immune to turn undead. While those more attuned with death seem to have more ability to withstand the sunlight. But have weaknesses such as Silver and Turn Undead and Dawnbreaker. So the more you appear on the scale of death the less the sunlight weakness you have. That could account for Lamae's bloodline being immune since she was left in a near death state but managed to heal.

snoozy

i don't care about the name for the passive as long as it stays the way it is now. my tank wants to remain a vamp, undead or not

Neoealth

Ankael07 wrote: »

Its nothing more than a mimicry of life. Regardless of how convincing it is. You can tell that by how Dawnbreaker hurts vampires in both ESO and Skyrim (even the wielder himself)

Surely youre not gonna try to explain Meridia whats undead and whats not?

This post alone blows OP argument out of the water from a lore point. Meridia hates all things undead, very much including vampires.

Thevampirenight

Neoealth wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Its nothing more than a mimicry of life. Regardless of how convincing it is. You can tell that by how Dawnbreaker hurts vampires in both ESO and Skyrim (even the wielder himself)

Surely youre not gonna try to explain Meridia whats undead and whats not?

This post alone blows OP argument out of the water from a lore point. Meridia hates all things undead, very much including vampires.

Ever wondered why she doesn't bat an eye if your a vampire or mention it when your clearly one in front of her since she is in the main questline? By that point i think you would be past the vanilla point where it was meant for you to become a vampire. So Its strange she doesn't care and I doubt she wouldn't have known you were one. Since clearly Princes can see the true face of whats in front of them I'm sure they are not that blind. I don't think she hates Vampires as nearly as much as she does necromancers and maybe dwemer constructs or robots from the future maybe. After all Pelinal did kill her champion and technically would be a form of false life. He is also the reason why most of her followers were put to the sword by his hands or the other proto imperials. Since the Aylied Elves seem to have her in high regards.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Just because they were alive when they become infected with molag bals supernatural goodness makes no difference. The point is they are no longer a regular living mortal. They stay "alive" by unnatural means. Almost in state of *gasp* undeath.

Death in Tes can't be cured unless by divine intervention or a necromancer holds the soul into the body before it leaves the body otherwise it can't be cured unless by divine intervention at that point. . Vampirism shock suprise can be cured just by purge salts and also a witchs potion who knew death was so easy to cure why don't I use the potion and purge salts on that on that dead khajiit over there and see if its resurrects them from the dead. Oh wait it doesn't work why does it work on the vampire and not the dead khajiit .That also another factor into why they are not undead. As Death can't be cured that easy. They live in an altered state but they are still alive and being alive means they can be cured.

The easy curing of vampirism and being a werewolf is a game mechanic, so the players can easily get rid of it.

In the lore and setting curing both is almost impossible when the transformation has occurred. There's just obscure tales of how it can be done and most of the time those are false or not known.
There are loads of characters in TES who are vampires or werewolf and doesn't want to be either but they can't cure themselves since there is no "easy" or known way to do so.

Tommy_The_Gun

Today: Vampires are not undead ! Rename the passive !
Tomorrow: Since vampires are not undead, they should not take more dmg from fighters guild skills ! Change those skills / passives !

Yep. We already seen this with justice system & necro. When it was introduced, people said that it is BS as it will for sure go too far and affect other skills / classes in the future.
And (as those people said) it is happening right now. Next patch WW is totally illegal and some of the vampire skills have "bounty" (are treated as criminal act)...

Neoealth

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Its nothing more than a mimicry of life. Regardless of how convincing it is. You can tell that by how Dawnbreaker hurts vampires in both ESO and Skyrim (even the wielder himself)

Surely youre not gonna try to explain Meridia whats undead and whats not?

This post alone blows OP argument out of the water from a lore point. Meridia hates all things undead, very much including vampires.

Ever wondered why she doesn't bat an eye if your a vampire or mention it when your clearly one in front of her since she is in the main questline? By that point i think you would be past the vanilla point where it was meant for you to become a vampire. So Its strange she doesn't care and I doubt she wouldn't have known you were one. Since clearly Princes can see the true face of whats in front of them I'm sure they are not that blind. I don't think she hates Vampires as nearly as much as she does necromancers and maybe dwemer constructs or robots from the future maybe. After all Pelinal did kill her champion and technically would be a form of false life. He is also the reason why most of her followers were put to the sword by his hands or the other proto imperials.

Her artifact still hurts you though. I think her talking to you and accepting you as her champion is more for the simple game mechanics. Since you're the player character, it would make little sense to lock you out of the game for the sake of upholding part of the lore.

I suppose if you wanted to be nit picky you could make the argument that Meridia recognizes the last dragonborn as a powerful and special individual who can get things done. Like cleansing her temple of the necromancers and undead which infested it. She probably also knows how all the other Daedric Princes are going out of their way to get the last dragonborn as their champion. He/she is a special case.

Thevampirenight

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Just because they were alive when they become infected with molag bals supernatural goodness makes no difference. The point is they are no longer a regular living mortal. They stay "alive" by unnatural means. Almost in state of *gasp* undeath.

Death in Tes can't be cured unless by divine intervention or a necromancer holds the soul into the body before it leaves the body otherwise it can't be cured unless by divine intervention at that point. . Vampirism shock suprise can be cured just by purge salts and also a witchs potion who knew death was so easy to cure why don't I use the potion and purge salts on that on that dead khajiit over there and see if its resurrects them from the dead. Oh wait it doesn't work why does it work on the vampire and not the dead khajiit .That also another factor into why they are not undead. As Death can't be cured that easy. They live in an altered state but they are still alive and being alive means they can be cured.

The easy curing of vampirism and being a werewolf is a game mechanic, so the players can easily get rid of it.

In the lore and setting curing both is almost impossible when the transformation has occurred. There's just obscure tales of how it can be done and most of the time those are false or not known.
There are loads of characters in TES who are vampires or werewolf and doesn't want to be either but they can't cure themselves since there is no "easy" or known way to do so.

Yeah I know and the cure isn't easy and many cosnider it to be impossible unless you go to one of the witches in Daggerfall of course. Vampirism can be more easily replaced by Lycanthropy I think. Since Lycanthropy is more of a spiritual condition and williningly taking up the form of one and drinking its blood during a ritual like the companions can easily replace it. Lycanthropy would be much harder to cure through vampirism since Lycanthropy would be more dominate. Given its spiritual nature. Only a pure blood vampire would have the means to do that for them like Harkan or Serana so getting cured through vampirism would be much harder. The cure is meant to be difficult but it depends on the circumstance. I personally think they need to rework the cure to be much harder then it is. More like the vampire quest in Oblivion since it would actually might make it more meaningful.

Vampirism should at least require going after a powerful vampire mob boss while finding six garlic and the blood of an argonian.
Lycanthropy something similar to Morrowinds lycanthropy cure. Each of the cure npcs should be unique and not a priest of Arkay but leave the priest of arkay to cure the bite passives if they want it. But not the condition itself.

Hurbster

Can we rename them Steve or Dave please ?

Thevampirenight

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Today: Vampires are not undead ! Rename the passive !
Tomorrow: Since vampires are not undead, they should not take more dmg from fighters guild skills ! Change those skills / passives !

Yep. We already seen this with justice system & necro. When it was introduced, people said that it is BS as it will for sure go too far and affect other skills / classes in the future.
And (as those people said) it is happening right now. Next patch WW is totally illegal and some of the vampire skills have "bounty" (are treated as criminal act)...

Well they can still tie them into say maybe more damage from Vampires bane ability and the cross bow ability. Since Crossbows are very effective against vampires. Plus fire damage weakness is also there. Just buff cross bow make its abilities uniquely deal more damage to vampires. Crossbow should be the main anti vampire weapon anyways. While Dawnbreaker more the anti undead weapon and other fighters guild abilties more anti daedric or anti werewolf anti beast and anti mortal humaniod like for example bandits and goblins. The trap beast one could do extra damage to player/npc werewolves in both forms. So its more varied and its abilties uniquely targeting certain foes the fighters guild has to deal with on a continued basis.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Thevampirenight wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Just because they were alive when they become infected with molag bals supernatural goodness makes no difference. The point is they are no longer a regular living mortal. They stay "alive" by unnatural means. Almost in state of *gasp* undeath.

Death in Tes can't be cured unless by divine intervention or a necromancer holds the soul into the body before it leaves the body otherwise it can't be cured unless by divine intervention at that point. . Vampirism shock suprise can be cured just by purge salts and also a witchs potion who knew death was so easy to cure why don't I use the potion and purge salts on that on that dead khajiit over there and see if its resurrects them from the dead. Oh wait it doesn't work why does it work on the vampire and not the dead khajiit .That also another factor into why they are not undead. As Death can't be cured that easy. They live in an altered state but they are still alive and being alive means they can be cured.

The easy curing of vampirism and being a werewolf is a game mechanic, so the players can easily get rid of it.

In the lore and setting curing both is almost impossible when the transformation has occurred. There's just obscure tales of how it can be done and most of the time those are false or not known.
There are loads of characters in TES who are vampires or werewolf and doesn't want to be either but they can't cure themselves since there is no "easy" or known way to do so.

Yeah I know and the cure isn't easy and many cosnider it to be impossible unless you go to one of the witches in Daggerfall of course. Vampirism can be more easily replaced by Lycanthropy I think. Since Lycanthropy is more of a spiritual condition and williningly taking up the form of one and drinking its blood during a ritual like the companions can easily replace it. Lycanthropy would be much harder to cure through vampirism since Lycanthropy would be more dominate. Given its spiritual nature. Only a pure blood vampire would have the means to do that for them like Harkan or Serana so getting cured through vampirism would be much harder. The cure is meant to be difficult but it depends on the circumstance. I personally think they need to rework the cure to be much harder then it is. More like the vampire quest in Oblivion since it would actually might make it more meaningful.

Vampirism should at least require going after a powerful vampire mob boss while finding six garlic and the blood of an argonian.
Lycanthropy something similar to Morrowinds lycanthropy cure. Each of the cure npcs should be unique and not a priest of Arkay but leave the priest of arkay to cure the bite passives if they want it. But not the condition itself.

... A vampire can't obtain lycanthropy nor vice versa.

Vampirism and lycanthropy are diseases made by Daedric Princes, and just like any other disease people get inflected with them by accident, though some do get them on purpose, usually for power. One is not more spiritual or willingly taken than the other.

Curing either of the diseases when it has been recently obtained is fully possible with priests, magic or alchemy. But when it has settled and you are a vampire/werewolf, then you are doomed to be one until your death, except in rare cases. Curing fully transformed vampirism and lycanthropy is not just some easy "Go to a priest/witch".
Even if the singleplayer games give you the option it's still pretty clear that the curing is very rare ordeals that require a lot of effort and unusual things.