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Roots need adjusted in this PTS cycle!!!! Bombard inpaticular.

Madhatten512
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I'll keep this short, but roots have become out of hand in all aspects of pvp. They are a tool for larger groups to swallow up smaller ones and nothing more.. Bombard is the number one offender.. There is a class AOE root given to mag dk and sorc… Even though they can be oppressive at-least its a class skill.. Opening it to any moron with a bow back bar is absurd.. Anyone that tries to play outside of these huge faction stacked groups has went against the xv1 squads with 6 different players spamming bombard.. In lag it can be invisible your stuck in place with no idea why. It ignores immov pots it ignores Beserker strike. I for one would like the game to get back to skill based combat.. There is no skill is loading your bar with snares and roots and dog piling 1 player at a time down.. ZOS please look into bombard during this pts cycle.
  • Siohwenoeht
    Siohwenoeht
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    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • BohnT2
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    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    If you put roots on the same cooldown as real CCs sure otherwise clap them with a pimp cane and throw their remains in a trashcan along with major defile on blastbones
  • llElLoboll
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    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Standing in the middle of 30 people spamming bombard is not a skill or a real play style, and that's about the only time i see it used...
  • Siohwenoeht
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    llElLoboll wrote: »
    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Standing in the middle of 30 people spamming bombard is not a skill or a real play style, and that's about the only time i see it used...

    Well it's not just a PVP ability now is it? Smh
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • llElLoboll
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    llElLoboll wrote: »
    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Standing in the middle of 30 people spamming bombard is not a skill or a real play style, and that's about the only time i see it used...

    Well it's not just a PVP ability now is it? Smh

    In which case it can be adjusted under Battle Spirit now can't it.
  • Siohwenoeht
    Siohwenoeht
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    llElLoboll wrote: »
    llElLoboll wrote: »
    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Standing in the middle of 30 people spamming bombard is not a skill or a real play style, and that's about the only time i see it used...

    Well it's not just a PVP ability now is it? Smh

    In which case it can be adjusted under Battle Spirit now can't it.

    I'd be fine with that ofc. But that's not what the op is asking for. Just another blanket nerf.
    Edited by Siohwenoeht on January 23, 2020 2:18AM
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • Madhatten512
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    llElLoboll wrote: »
    llElLoboll wrote: »
    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Standing in the middle of 30 people spamming bombard is not a skill or a real play style, and that's about the only time i see it used...

    Well it's not just a PVP ability now is it? Smh

    In which case it can be adjusted under Battle Spirit now can't it.

    I'd be fine with that ofc. But that's not what the op is asking for. Just another blanket nerf.

    I didn't ask for a blanket nerf of anything I asked for a bogus skill used by nothing but xv1 zerglings to be looked at.. If that is upsetting to you than I bet I know what your preferred playstyle of choice is in cyro..
  • iCaliban
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    Bombard is heavily overperforming. And has been for quite some time. A massive aoe root from range that can be easily procced with a much lower cost than mag roots which are melee range.

    A bigger problem is that roots dont share the same immunity timer as stuns. Allowing dedicated cc bots that do nothing but stun then root you while dealing no damage
  • Siohwenoeht
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    llElLoboll wrote: »
    llElLoboll wrote: »
    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Standing in the middle of 30 people spamming bombard is not a skill or a real play style, and that's about the only time i see it used...

    Well it's not just a PVP ability now is it? Smh

    In which case it can be adjusted under Battle Spirit now can't it.

    I'd be fine with that ofc. But that's not what the op is asking for. Just another blanket nerf.

    I didn't ask for a blanket nerf of anything I asked for a bogus skill used by nothing but xv1 zerglings to be looked at.. If that is upsetting to you than I bet I know what your preferred playstyle of choice is in cyro..

    Never have used a bow in PVP. What's upsetting is all the qq over stuns, roots and cc in general. How about you stop balling up and spread out?
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • MashmalloMan
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    You people won't stop till all CC's are gone. Besides the vampire drain issues on live, this is the most fun and balanced patch I've played dealing with CC's.

    This is a big ol' L2P.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • Juhasow
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    llElLoboll wrote: »
    llElLoboll wrote: »
    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Standing in the middle of 30 people spamming bombard is not a skill or a real play style, and that's about the only time i see it used...

    Well it's not just a PVP ability now is it? Smh

    In which case it can be adjusted under Battle Spirit now can't it.

    Let's be honest it cannot. ZoS will never go as far as adding special treatments to specific abilities via battle spirit.
  • TheFM
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    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Slows are out of hand in cyro atm, ESPECIALLY on templars, but yeah bombard is def an issue too. Hard CCs are not the issue, its the slows, which can stack up to nearly 100 percent.
  • NBrookus
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    I do believe root spam needs to be adjusted. Bombard is worse than Encase (also ranged) or Talons (6m range) because it also procs poisons... but being rooted every 2 seconds is incredibly un-fun gameplay.
    TheFM wrote: »
    Slows are out of hand in cyro atm, ESPECIALLY on templars, but yeah bombard is def an issue too. Hard CCs are not the issue, its the slows, which can stack up to nearly 100 percent.

    No, they cannot. Snares do not stack. The highest snare overwrites any others.
  • Siohwenoeht
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    TheFM wrote: »
    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Slows are out of hand in cyro atm, ESPECIALLY on templars, but yeah bombard is def an issue too. Hard CCs are not the issue, its the slows, which can stack up to nearly 100 percent.

    I see... So you'd kneecap the counters and bring speed meta back. Tell you what; put in a movement speed penalty for EACH piece of heavy armor equipped and we can gut all the soft CC's you want.
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • technohic
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    Yeah. I was trying to figure out wtf was going in a bit today and realized it was bombard spam. It seems like if it hits you rapidly enough, a roll doesnt get the immune to stick or something. Even if it did, the recourse is either to short or ot needs to be counted the same as a stun.
  • Juhasow
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    NBrookus wrote: »
    I do believe root spam needs to be adjusted. Bombard is worse than Encase (also ranged) or Talons (6m range) because it also procs poisons... but being rooted every 2 seconds is incredibly un-fun gameplay.
    I think the issue is deeper and it boils down to the fact that group play in this game can be pretty brain dead after reaching certain numbers. Lot of abilities that is strong or semi decent for small scale or solo play can become insanely overpowered when spammed brainlesly in large group and sometimes even in small groups (like crossheals). Lack of real counters to large groups is one of the issues.
    Edited by Juhasow on January 23, 2020 4:27AM
  • MashmalloMan
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    NBrookus wrote: »
    I do believe root spam needs to be adjusted. Bombard is worse than Encase (also ranged) or Talons (6m range) because it also procs poisons... but being rooted every 2 seconds is incredibly un-fun gameplay.
    I think the issue is deeper and it boils down to the fact that group play in this game can be pretty brain dead after reaching certain numbers. Lot of abilities that is strong or semi decent for small scale or solo play can become insanely overpowered when spammed brainlesly in large group and sometimes even in small groups (like crossheals). Lack of real counters to large groups is one of the issues.

    Exactly... This is why people need to look for stronger arguments to get things nerfed than "but 15 guys teamed up and attacked me, I couldn't do anything and died!"... Well... Yeah..
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 23, 2020 10:17AM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • alainjbrennanb16_ESO
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    I agree when a group runs at ou and just you the amount of cc's on you you just cant escape, zos probs put them in for the ball groups, but cc's dont really work on them, they just use them against 1 player
    Main character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike
  • technohic
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    NBrookus wrote: »
    I do believe root spam needs to be adjusted. Bombard is worse than Encase (also ranged) or Talons (6m range) because it also procs poisons... but being rooted every 2 seconds is incredibly un-fun gameplay.
    I think the issue is deeper and it boils down to the fact that group play in this game can be pretty brain dead after reaching certain numbers. Lot of abilities that is strong or semi decent for small scale or solo play can become insanely overpowered when spammed brainlesly in large group and sometimes even in small groups (like crossheals). Lack of real counters to large groups is one of the issues.

    Exactly... This is why people need to look for stronger arguments to get things nerfed than "but 15 guys teamed up and attacked me, I couldn't do anything and died!"... Well... Yeah..

    Large groups fight other large groups also, and it's just as annoying to have bombard spam. Only ones not effected by it are the ones that have purge spam. In before someone suggests it's fair to 3xpect organized groups often fight organized groups when they mean by taking on a spam role themselves. Some of us love to be self sufficient and just run with friends
  • Nevasca
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    OP is right though. Bombard is ridiculous. Why a AOE spammable has root for free? It's so *** cheap and does the standard AOE damage.

    The solution is simple too, halve the damage and increase cost for bombard, leave acid spray for damage. Maybe reduce thr range by a few meters too, or make it harder for root. Example: root only poisoned targets, or root only the closest two targets, so it still useful for the solo player but not abusable (as much) in groups.

    I believe root also have a small cooldown, that might be worth looking into as well and maybe it's time to increase it. Though thr main issue it's just that bombard is an easy access low cost high range spammable. There's no drawbacks to the skill at all besides running bow, which is an excelent weapon.

    Sorc root (encase) at least is a bit expensive with no damage and you are forced to play sorc, which has problems with bars already so you do make a significant sacrifice unless you are a full supp sorc (which are pretty good btw). Blockade of frost has limited range at least, and costs a ton.
  • TheFM
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    NBrookus wrote: »
    I do believe root spam needs to be adjusted. Bombard is worse than Encase (also ranged) or Talons (6m range) because it also procs poisons... but being rooted every 2 seconds is incredibly un-fun gameplay.
    TheFM wrote: »
    Slows are out of hand in cyro atm, ESPECIALLY on templars, but yeah bombard is def an issue too. Hard CCs are not the issue, its the slows, which can stack up to nearly 100 percent.

    No, they cannot. Snares do not stack. The highest snare overwrites any others.

    Interesting how I am slowed to a near halt sometimes then when several aoe slows are on the ground
  • iCaliban
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    NBrookus wrote: »
    I do believe root spam needs to be adjusted. Bombard is worse than Encase (also ranged) or Talons (6m range) because it also procs poisons... but being rooted every 2 seconds is incredibly un-fun gameplay.
    I think the issue is deeper and it boils down to the fact that group play in this game can be pretty brain dead after reaching certain numbers. Lot of abilities that is strong or semi decent for small scale or solo play can become insanely overpowered when spammed brainlesly in large group and sometimes even in small groups (like crossheals). Lack of real counters to large groups is one of the issues.

    Exactly... This is why people need to look for stronger arguments to get things nerfed than "but 15 guys teamed up and attacked me, I couldn't do anything and died!"... Well... Yeah..

    One person running bombard in a battleground is sufficient to keep nearly everyone rooted constantly.

    The ease of use, combined with the large aoe, bugged root immunity, and cheap cost, make it very overturned.

    No need to delete bombard. A hefty cost increase and a generic increase in root immunity would go a long way
  • TheFM
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    TheFM wrote: »
    Stop the war on CC's PLEASE. It's ruining so many other skills and playstyles as a consequence.

    Slows are out of hand in cyro atm, ESPECIALLY on templars, but yeah bombard is def an issue too. Hard CCs are not the issue, its the slows, which can stack up to nearly 100 percent.

    I see... So you'd kneecap the counters and bring speed meta back. Tell you what; put in a movement speed penalty for EACH piece of heavy armor equipped and we can gut all the soft CC's you want.

    Counters are fine, however snares and roots being baked into every ability on certain classes nearly is not a counter, it's spam.
  • SodanTok
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    This is just gonna happen all the time. You will make nerfs threads until they put bombard to the trash and move on to complaining about next AoE root in the same game where AoE roots are quite important part of PvE combat. This is never gonna get solved until AoE roots start behaving differently. There needs to be immunity/cooldown but also in a way PVE mobs can be rooted near permanently as is possible now.
    Only solution I see is increase/standardize root duration from every skill to 5-7s and give everyone 5-7s immunity to roots on breaking away (purge, dodge).
  • iCaliban
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    This is just gonna happen all the time. You will make nerfs threads until they put bombard to the trash and move on to complaining about next AoE root in the same game where AoE roots are quite important part of PvE combat. This is never gonna get solved until AoE roots start behaving differently. There needs to be immunity/cooldown but also in a way PVE mobs can be rooted near permanently as is possible now.
    Only solution I see is increase/standardize root duration from every skill to 5-7s and give everyone 5-7s immunity to roots on breaking away (purge, dodge).

    This is a straw man. Bombard is not used in pve. No tank worth the name runs a bow.

    This is not a nerf for the sake of nerf thread. Bombard is genuinely overperforming. It is much stronger than the old ice wall, which was nerfed for the constant roots.
  • ChunkyCat
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    How am I supposed to consistently annoy people in BGs if I can’t bombard them to death?
  • SodanTok
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    iCaliban wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    This is just gonna happen all the time. You will make nerfs threads until they put bombard to the trash and move on to complaining about next AoE root in the same game where AoE roots are quite important part of PvE combat. This is never gonna get solved until AoE roots start behaving differently. There needs to be immunity/cooldown but also in a way PVE mobs can be rooted near permanently as is possible now.
    Only solution I see is increase/standardize root duration from every skill to 5-7s and give everyone 5-7s immunity to roots on breaking away (purge, dodge).

    This is a straw man. Bombard is not used in pve. No tank worth the name runs a bow.

    This is not a nerf for the sake of nerf thread. Bombard is genuinely overperforming. It is much stronger than the old ice wall, which was nerfed for the constant roots.

    Thread topic is literally 'roots need adjusted' and OP is talking about aoe roots in general with bombard beind nr1 offender. That says to me clearly that removing bombard from existence would not solve OP issue.
  • iCaliban
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    iCaliban wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    This is just gonna happen all the time. You will make nerfs threads until they put bombard to the trash and move on to complaining about next AoE root in the same game where AoE roots are quite important part of PvE combat. This is never gonna get solved until AoE roots start behaving differently. There needs to be immunity/cooldown but also in a way PVE mobs can be rooted near permanently as is possible now.
    Only solution I see is increase/standardize root duration from every skill to 5-7s and give everyone 5-7s immunity to roots on breaking away (purge, dodge).

    This is a straw man. Bombard is not used in pve. No tank worth the name runs a bow.

    This is not a nerf for the sake of nerf thread. Bombard is genuinely overperforming. It is much stronger than the old ice wall, which was nerfed for the constant roots.

    Thread topic is literally 'roots need adjusted' and OP is talking about aoe roots in general with bombard beind nr1 offender. That says to me clearly that removing bombard from existence would not solve OP issue.

    Op is irrelevant then. Other roots are fine. It is bombard that is an issue.
  • NBrookus
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    iCaliban wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    iCaliban wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    This is just gonna happen all the time. You will make nerfs threads until they put bombard to the trash and move on to complaining about next AoE root in the same game where AoE roots are quite important part of PvE combat. This is never gonna get solved until AoE roots start behaving differently. There needs to be immunity/cooldown but also in a way PVE mobs can be rooted near permanently as is possible now.
    Only solution I see is increase/standardize root duration from every skill to 5-7s and give everyone 5-7s immunity to roots on breaking away (purge, dodge).

    This is a straw man. Bombard is not used in pve. No tank worth the name runs a bow.

    This is not a nerf for the sake of nerf thread. Bombard is genuinely overperforming. It is much stronger than the old ice wall, which was nerfed for the constant roots.

    Thread topic is literally 'roots need adjusted' and OP is talking about aoe roots in general with bombard beind nr1 offender. That says to me clearly that removing bombard from existence would not solve OP issue.

    Op is irrelevant then. Other roots are fine. It is bombard that is an issue.

    Then bombard will be replaced by Encase spam and charged ice wall.

    It's the cost/benefit ratio of roots versus immunity that is the issue, not one specific skill.
  • xylena
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    Not sure when they changed it, but for a while, Bombard had some sort of anti-spam mechanic, like the root would only apply if the target wasn't already rooted or snared, but eventually they reverted the anti-spam because it was terrible in practice and nobody was using the ability at all anymore. Does anyone remember the specifics of what happened?

    Anyway, I'll agree that group CC spam in general is the problem, not Bombard specifically. Organized ball groups and ugly pug zergs alike have been abusing unbreakable CC since launch. Get enough players spamming CC long enough, eventually the game mechanics will fail and your target(s) will be stun locked.
    Retired until we break the Tank Meta
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