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Attention ZOS: You've broken Cloak. Again. (Nightblades, you'll want to read this.)
Langeston
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✭
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The crit bonus on Shadowy Disguise (one of the only tools left in the Nightblade arsenal that allowed any form of real burst damage) is essentially non-functional. I made several posts about this before Dragonhold went live and I filled out a bug report on the PTS server as well. No one from ZOS has acknowledged any of it. I've been playing as a Nightblade since last April, and in that time I've seen the class get progressively worse with each patch — I'm beginning to get the impression that ZOS wants Nightblades to be a third-rate class. At this point I'm past expecting ZOS to actually make the class competitive, but it would be nice if the skills actually worked the way they're supposed to.
I've documented the issue in the first 3 of the following pictures, with a full video clip of the entire sequence of events right here. The skills I used in my demonstration were Elemental Weapon, Light Attack, and Swallow Soul. In addition, there is a shock glyph on my staff. I unequipped all gear and skills, aside from the ones used.
Image 1:
As you can see, the Elemental Weapon and Shadowy Disguise timers are still up during the light attack/Swallow Soul animations. (You can even still see the faint "INVISIBLE" right beneath the Shadowy Disguise timer — I am in cloak for the entire attack.)
Image 2:
This shows the instant when the attacks hit — there is only one crit.
Image 3:
This is a screenshot of the Combat Metrics readout that I pulled up at the end of the clip. If you look under "Crits/Hits" you see that the only attack that critted is the Light Attack.
And here are 4 more Combat Metrics readouts to show that this is not a one-off. Whether or not you crit appears to be entirely dependent on your skills/equipment/RNG. Shadowy Disguise doesn't appear to have any bearing on it whatsoever.
[edit] In the last picture, you can see that nothing critted except Swallow Soul — the last ability I used. So for everyone saying "it procs on your NEXT ability": no, it doesn't.
Edited by Langeston on January 17, 2020 1:03PM I've documented the issue in the first 3 of the following pictures, with a full video clip of the entire sequence of events right here. The skills I used in my demonstration were Elemental Weapon, Light Attack, and Swallow Soul. In addition, there is a shock glyph on my staff. I unequipped all gear and skills, aside from the ones used.
Image 1:
As you can see, the Elemental Weapon and Shadowy Disguise timers are still up during the light attack/Swallow Soul animations. (You can even still see the faint "INVISIBLE" right beneath the Shadowy Disguise timer — I am in cloak for the entire attack.)
This shows the instant when the attacks hit — there is only one crit.
This is a screenshot of the Combat Metrics readout that I pulled up at the end of the clip. If you look under "Crits/Hits" you see that the only attack that critted is the Light Attack.
[edit] In the last picture, you can see that nothing critted except Swallow Soul — the last ability I used. So for everyone saying "it procs on your NEXT ability": no, it doesn't.
14
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ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭BUFF NB.
Zos better fix this. But also it should effect crit heals. So cloak - rally for guaranteed crit. Dks get mending.4 -
Valykc✭✭✭✭✭I am confused a bit.
Shadowy Disguise:
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds.
Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.
Your light attack is the first thing that hits and is getting the guaranteed Crit bonus. Since elemental weapon buffs your light attack is it not working as intended? Am I just reading your post incorrectly?Edited by Valykc on January 17, 2020 5:12AM2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am confused a bit.
Shadowy Disguise:
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds.
Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.
Your light attack is the first thing that hits and is getting the guaranteed Crit bonus. Since elemental weapon buffs your light attack is it not working as intended? Am I just reading your post incorrectly?
1. Well, before Dragonhold your entire opener from cloak would crit. (I wish I'd taken video of it prior to the change going live.) Basically, all of the damage in image 2 would have critted prior to the latest big update.
2. Elemental Weapon doesn't buff your light attack, it's in addition to your light attack. If you look at image 3 you'll see that Elemental weapon is listed separately and it does not crit.
3. I think the only reason I'm critting at all is because even with no gear/skills, my crit percentage is 20% — so roughly 1/5 will be crits simply due to that. Sometimes Swallow Soul will crit, sometimes Elemental Weapon. Here is one such example:That's not how the skill used to work, and if that's how it's supposed to work now then it's completely useless.
The big issue here is that the rest of the NB toolkit was already detuned to compensate for the 100% crit bonus — but now that they took the bonus away the class is even weaker.
[edit] Also note that the order of the skills in Combat Metrics is not the order they were cast in — it's descending order of damage done. So a critical LA will be higher than a non-crit Elemental Weapon/Swallow Soul/Enchant Proc simply because it does more damage than those skills if they don't crit.Edited by Langeston on January 17, 2020 5:40AM1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait till you see next patch changes to cloak
Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge3 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am confused a bit.
Shadowy Disguise:
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds.
Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.
Your light attack is the first thing that hits and is getting the guaranteed Crit bonus. Since elemental weapon buffs your light attack is it not working as intended? Am I just reading your post incorrectly?
1. Well, before Dragonhold your entire opener from cloak would crit. (I wish I'd taken video of it prior to the change going live.) Basically, all of the damage in image 2 would have critted prior to the latest big update.
2. Elemental Weapon doesn't buff your light attack, it's in addition to your light attack. If you look at image 3 you'll see that Elemental weapon is listed separately and it does not crit.
3. I think the only reason I'm critting at all is because even with no gear/skills, my crit percentage is 20% — so roughly 1/5 will be crits simply due to that. Sometimes Swallow Soul will crit, sometimes Elemental Weapon. Here is one such example:That's not how the skill used to work, and if that's how it's supposed to work now then it's completely useless.
The big issue here is that the rest of the NB toolkit was already detuned to compensate for the 100% crit bonus — but now that they took the bonus away the class is even weaker.
[edit] Also note that the order of the skills in Combat Metrics is not the order they were cast in — it's descending order of damage done. So a critical LA will be higher than a non-crit Elemental Weapon/Swallow Soul/Enchant Proc simply because it does more damage than those skills if they don't crit.
1. That sounds broken to me, that's way too much burst with something like ele weapon, a good set and an enchant. The tooltip says your next attack, which should signify 1 part of damage. Light attack is an attack, enchant is an attack, ele weapon, etc.
Do you really think that's how it should work, guaranteeing Crit damage on a bunch of attacks you can time with 1 light attack, add empower in to that..? Perhaps they simply fixed a bug you were experiencing.
2. You kind of prove the point here that ele weapon is a seperate attack and should not guarantee a Crit. It is seperate, it does not buff light attack damage, so it is not affected by empower and does count as a seperate number, therefore should not have 100% Crit. It only hits if a light attack hits the enemy within the 2s of cast, meaning, it probably happens milliseconds after the light attack hits. Same can be said about enchants with the same requirement.
3. I think it's pretty obvious only the light attack has 100% crit. I guarantee if you open the combat log available on combat metrics that shows the exact timing of every damage that hits your enemy, light attack will be first, shortly followed by the others. Yes, the part your looking at orders it based on highest damage, but the combat log shows the exact timing of damage which would specifically help or break your case here. I'd advise checking that again.
Many people aren't happy with the changes to NB recently, but giving 100% Crit for multiple parts of damage within 1gcd of an attack is not the answer, that would be broken, even you must admit how that makes no sense, so I'm not surprised it doesn't work that way.
That being said, get some Nightblade mains to chime in since you said your kind of new to the class, I always thought it was the first hit so I never attack with light attack, I'd use an ult/snipe first in my limited experience with the ability, but tooltip checks out.PC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit7 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭MashmalloMan wrote: »I am confused a bit.
Shadowy Disguise:
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds.
Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.
Your light attack is the first thing that hits and is getting the guaranteed Crit bonus. Since elemental weapon buffs your light attack is it not working as intended? Am I just reading your post incorrectly?
1. Well, before Dragonhold your entire opener from cloak would crit. (I wish I'd taken video of it prior to the change going live.) Basically, all of the damage in image 2 would have critted prior to the latest big update.
2. Elemental Weapon doesn't buff your light attack, it's in addition to your light attack. If you look at image 3 you'll see that Elemental weapon is listed separately and it does not crit.
3. I think the only reason I'm critting at all is because even with no gear/skills, my crit percentage is 20% — so roughly 1/5 will be crits simply due to that. Sometimes Swallow Soul will crit, sometimes Elemental Weapon. Here is one such example:That's not how the skill used to work, and if that's how it's supposed to work now then it's completely useless.
The big issue here is that the rest of the NB toolkit was already detuned to compensate for the 100% crit bonus — but now that they took the bonus away the class is even weaker.
[edit] Also note that the order of the skills in Combat Metrics is not the order they were cast in — it's descending order of damage done. So a critical LA will be higher than a non-crit Elemental Weapon/Swallow Soul/Enchant Proc simply because it does more damage than those skills if they don't crit.
1. That sounds broken to me, that's way too much burst with something like ele weapon, a good set and an enchant. The tooltip says your next attack, which should signify 1 part of damage. Light attack is an attack, enchant is an attack, ele weapon, etc.
Do you really think that's how it should work, guaranteeing Crit damage on a bunch of attacks you can time with 1 light attack, add empower in to that..? Perhaps they simply fixed a bug you were experiencing.
2. You kind of prove the point here that ele weapon is a seperate attack and should not guarantee a Crit. It is seperate, it does not buff light attack damage, so it is not affected by empower and does count as a seperate number, therefore should not have 100% Crit. It only hits if a light attack hits the enemy within the 2s of cast, meaning, it probably happens milliseconds after the light attack hits. Same can be said about enchants with the same requirement.
3. I think it's pretty obvious only the light attack has 100% crit. I guarantee if you open the combat log available on combat metrics that shows the exact timing of every damage that hits your enemy, light attack will be first, shortly followed by the others. Yes, the part your looking at orders it based on highest damage, but the combat log shows the exact timing of damage which would specifically help or break your case here. I'd advise checking that again.
Many people aren't happy with the changes to NB recently, but giving 100% Crit for multiple parts of damage within 1gcd of an attack is not the answer, that would be broken, even you must admit how that makes no sense, so I'm not surprised it doesn't work that way.
That being said, get some Nightblade mains to chime in since you said your kind of new to the class, I always thought it was the first hit so I never attack with light attack, I'd use an ult/snipe first in my limited experience with the ability, but tooltip checks out.
1. Even before ZOS made this change NBs were widely considered to be weak, so no I don't think I'd say it was overtuned. Even with the way Cloak worked pre-Dragonhold, NB burst damage was lacking — now it's even worse. Like I said, they already more than compensated for the crit bonus by gutting the rest of the class abilities.
2. You can't even use Elemental Weapon without light attacking. If you don't light attack afterwards, nothing happens.
As far as the order of the attacks, look at the last picture. Swallow Soul is the only thing that crits, yet it is the last (of four) abilities/procs that hit. The order was Ele Weapon>LA>Enchant Proc>Swallow Soul — and as I said in a previous reply, the light attack doesn't even always crit. In any case, even all of that together is just about as strong as Crystal Frags, it only happens once per fight on your opener, and it's much more difficult to line up/use, whereas Frags procs roughly every third ability you cast. I'd take something like Frags over this any day.
The problem here is that the way Cloak works now, in many cases you'll actually do more damage just by LA weaving Swallow Soul (without cloaking) than using Swallow Soul from cloak with the crit bonus. That doesn't make sense to me. If that's how this skill is supposed to work, the crit bonus is pretty much worthless in most cases on a magblade.
As far as me being new to the class, I may not have been with ESO for years, but nightblades are really the only class I've played for the last 10 months. I leveled up to CP 928 pretty much exclusively from playing them.1 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭yeah sure, lets crit everything, light attack weapon enchant elementary weapon and caluurion, maybe u find another set which can crit.
what the hell don't you understand at "next attack"3 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭yeah sure, lets crit everything, light attack weapon enchant elementary weapon and caluurion, maybe u find another set which can crit.
what the hell don't you understand at "next attack"
The "next" attack isn't guaranteed to crit. In fact, there doesn't seem to be any method to how (or if) it does crit.
Try actually reading next time.2 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭yeah sure, lets crit everything, light attack weapon enchant elementary weapon and caluurion, maybe u find another set which can crit.
what the hell don't you understand at "next attack"
The "next" attack isn't guaranteed to crit. In fact, there doesn't seem to be any method to how (or if) it does crit.
Try actually reading next time.
maybe play naked, cloak and light attack and then its rly simple to find out.0 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Looks like it’s working as intended, and you were getting unintended bonuses before they fixed it.5 -
MyPrist✭✭✭The crit bonus on Shadowy Disguise (one of the only tools left in the Nightblade arsenal that allowed any form of real burst damage) is essentially non-functional. I made several posts about this before Dragonhold went live and I filled out a bug report on the PTS server as well. No one from ZOS has acknowledged any of it. I've been playing as a Nightblade since April of 2019, and in that time I've seen the class get progressively worse with each patch — I'm beginning to get the impression that ZOS wants Nightblades to be a third-rate class. At this point I'm past expecting ZOS to actually make the class competitive, but it would be nice if the skills actually worked the way they're supposed to.
I've documented the issue in the first 3 of the following pictures, with a full video clip of the entire sequence of events right here. The skills I used in my demonstration were Elemental Weapon, Light Attack, and Swallow Soul. In addition, there is a shock glyph on my staff. I unequipped all gear and skills, aside from the ones used.
Image 1:
As you can see, the Elemental Weapon and Shadowy Disguise timers are still up during the light attack/Swallow Soul animations. (You can even still see the faint "INVISIBLE" right beneath the Shadowy Disguise timer — I am in cloak for the entire attack.)Image 2:
This shows the instant when the attacks hit — there is only one crit.Image 3:
This is a screenshot of the Combat Metrics readout that I pulled up at the end of the clip. If you look under "Crits/Hits" you see that the only attack that critted is the Light Attack.And here are 4 more Combat Metrics readouts to show that this is not a one-off. Whether or not you crit appears to be entirely dependent on your skills/equipment/RNG. Shadowy Disguise doesn't appear to have any bearing on it whatsoever.
I am DK, my skill moltan armaments do not work correct 9 month.
Nine !!!
I use it for my build, it gives 0% add instead of 50% for example on restoration stuff.
It is not the one broken skill i have.
So be patient, 1-2 years and may be some thing will be fixed.0 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭
If it would be as uncounterable as streak, i.e. not breaking from aoes or reveal abilities, i'd be fine with even higher cost increase on subsequent casts.0 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I confirm that Shadow Disguise does not always provide a critical strike. How do I know that? Because when I use Vicecannon of Venom (a set that has 100% chance to proc from direct Critical damage from stealth) and deal direct damage within 3 secs, it does not always proc. Which means that the next direct damage after you activate Shadow Disguise is not a guaranteed critical strike.Edited by gatekeeper13 on January 17, 2020 10:37AM2 -
alanmatillab16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »I confirm that Shadow Disguise does not always provide a critical strike. How do I know that? Because when I use Vicecannon of Venom (a set that has 100% chance to proc from direct Critical damage from stealth) and deal direct damage within 3 secs, it does not always proc. Which means that the next direct damage after you activate Shadow Disguise is not a guaranteed critical strike.
The cloak crit bonus applied to the attack that procced your set piece, the set piece poison attack is treated as a seperate attack therefore is not affected by cloak the same way enchants, poisons etc are not affected. The game is doing exactly what the tooltip says: Your NEXT direct damage attack, not ALL direct damage attacks.
Whether or not that is a good thing is a different discussion but the mechanics of Shadow Cloak ARE working as the tooltip says, if they worked different previously that is because it wasn't working properly previously.
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Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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No, this is not true.alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »gatekeeper13 wrote: »I confirm that Shadow Disguise does not always provide a critical strike. How do I know that? Because when I use Vicecannon of Venom (a set that has 100% chance to proc from direct Critical damage from stealth) and deal direct damage within 3 secs, it does not always proc. Which means that the next direct damage after you activate Shadow Disguise is not a guaranteed critical strike.
The cloak crit bonus applied to the attack that procced your set piece, the set piece poison attack is treated as a seperate attack therefore is not affected by cloak the same way enchants, poisons etc are not affected. The game is doing exactly what the tooltip says: Your NEXT direct damage attack, not ALL direct damage attacks.
Whether or not that is a good thing is a different discussion but the mechanics of Shadow Cloak ARE working as the tooltip says, if they worked different previously that is because it wasn't working properly previously.
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gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »gatekeeper13 wrote: »I confirm that Shadow Disguise does not always provide a critical strike. How do I know that? Because when I use Vicecannon of Venom (a set that has 100% chance to proc from direct Critical damage from stealth) and deal direct damage within 3 secs, it does not always proc. Which means that the next direct damage after you activate Shadow Disguise is not a guaranteed critical strike.
The cloak crit bonus applied to the attack that procced your set piece, the set piece poison attack is treated as a seperate attack therefore is not affected by cloak the same way enchants, poisons etc are not affected. The game is doing exactly what the tooltip says: Your NEXT direct damage attack, not ALL direct damage attacks.
Whether or not that is a good thing is a different discussion but the mechanics of Shadow Cloak ARE working as the tooltip says, if they worked different previously that is because it wasn't working properly previously.
The set procs from a Critical strike done from stealth and applies a DoT effect. If shadowy disguise causes your next direct attack to be always a critical strike, then Vicecannon of Venom should proc and apply the DoT effect 100% of the time when you direct attack after activating the cloak.
Shadowy Disguise>Direct Attack>Vicecannon procs>DoT applied
This aint always happening, at least from my experience. May be wrong.1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »gatekeeper13 wrote: »I confirm that Shadow Disguise does not always provide a critical strike. How do I know that? Because when I use Vicecannon of Venom (a set that has 100% chance to proc from direct Critical damage from stealth) and deal direct damage within 3 secs, it does not always proc. Which means that the next direct damage after you activate Shadow Disguise is not a guaranteed critical strike.
The cloak crit bonus applied to the attack that procced your set piece, the set piece poison attack is treated as a seperate attack therefore is not affected by cloak the same way enchants, poisons etc are not affected. The game is doing exactly what the tooltip says: Your NEXT direct damage attack, not ALL direct damage attacks.
Whether or not that is a good thing is a different discussion but the mechanics of Shadow Cloak ARE working as the tooltip says, if they worked different previously that is because it wasn't working properly previously.
The set procs from a Critical strike done from stealth and applies a DoT effect. If shadowy disguise causes your next direct attack to be always a critical strike, then Vicecannon of Venom should proc and apply the DoT effect 100% of the time when you direct attack after activating the cloak.
Shadowy Disguise>Direct Attack>Vicecannon procs>DoT applied
This aint always happening, at least from my experience. May be wrong.
No, you're right. Caluurion works the same way and the last time I used the set it was completely unreliable.1 -
WhisperLFE✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »gatekeeper13 wrote: »I confirm that Shadow Disguise does not always provide a critical strike. How do I know that? Because when I use Vicecannon of Venom (a set that has 100% chance to proc from direct Critical damage from stealth) and deal direct damage within 3 secs, it does not always proc. Which means that the next direct damage after you activate Shadow Disguise is not a guaranteed critical strike.
The cloak crit bonus applied to the attack that procced your set piece, the set piece poison attack is treated as a seperate attack therefore is not affected by cloak the same way enchants, poisons etc are not affected. The game is doing exactly what the tooltip says: Your NEXT direct damage attack, not ALL direct damage attacks.
Whether or not that is a good thing is a different discussion but the mechanics of Shadow Cloak ARE working as the tooltip says, if they worked different previously that is because it wasn't working properly previously.
The set procs from a Critical strike done from stealth and applies a DoT effect. If shadowy disguise causes your next direct attack to be always a critical strike, then Vicecannon of Venom should proc and apply the DoT effect 100% of the time when you direct attack after activating the cloak.
Shadowy Disguise>Direct Attack>Vicecannon procs>DoT applied
This aint always happening, at least from my experience. May be wrong.
As was mentioned, they seem to be saying that the set proc, which is triggered by dealing crit dmg, isn't actually triggering; not that the set proc isn't itself critting. This would suggest the first attack after cloaking isn't critting (because it's not triggering the set proc).
That's my take.Edited by WhisperLFE on January 17, 2020 12:04PM1 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭I use to run vicecanon but since its proc is not happening as its ment to with rotation i stopped playing my nb
Rotation SD>PI>(vic proc)>dotX2>SD>SA>(vic proc)>dot>HA>OS>EX
i may get the proc for the SA 60% of the time but never from PI anymore
And ive main an stamblade since release day and if SD was working right vicecanon would proc on both the PI and the SA hits giving me the burst damage needed to kill running this set but since its not and ive spent 900 TelVar getting jewelry alone im over it tbh nb's are just good crafters now and we have to come to terms with itEdited by Nordic__Knights on January 17, 2020 12:15PM0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »BUFF NB.
Zos better fix this. But also it should effect crit heals. So cloak - rally for guaranteed crit. Dks get mending.
Because that sounds "balanced"...0 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do I get that right? You cry because you have a guaranteed crit on your next hit after cloak like intended, because you can't press your skill before the light attack for some reason? And instead you want your entire combo to crit, because it is not broken enough in PvP to always crit with your first attack, while you can't even get counterattacked and just vanish in cloak again after that one hit, to crit again with the next?Edited by L_Nici on January 17, 2020 12:34PMA very special girl
PC|EU2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do I get that right? You cry because you have a guaranteed crit on your next hit after cloak like intended, because you can't press your skill before the light attack for some reason? And instead you want your entire combo to crit, because it is not broken enough in PvP to always crit with your first attack?
No. You do not have it right.2 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do I get that right? You cry because you have a guaranteed crit on your next hit after cloak like intended, because you can't press your skill before the light attack for some reason? And instead you want your entire combo to crit, because it is not broken enough in PvP to always crit with your first attack, while you can't even get counterattacked and just vanish in cloak again after that one hit, to crit again with the next?
My rotation is SD>PI and i dont get critical hits to proc my set so its not anything to do with LA as i dont use it the skill itself is not working as it should easy as that or my set would proc 100% of time with my rotation0 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭Light Attack is the ability critting, if you didn't LA your Swallow Soul would crit.
Working as intended.2
