Templar Tanking - Thinking of Swapping over from a healer

MEBengalsFan2001

I have been thinking about swapping my healer over to a tank. I know I will need new gear, respect to new weapons, new abilities, etc...

My character is a Vampire Dark Elf Templar. I have over 400 CP and grinding each day to get more.

My question is about the damage on a tank build for a templar. Right now I find it easy to swap over to a magika DPS by changing gear as a healer; I know my CP are not optimized for damage but I do ok in open world content. How does a tank stack up in damage compared to a healer when gear is switched for open world content, such as swapping to 2H?

I want to try playing as a tank but I don't want to slow down my open world progression to much.

Royaji

In comparison to a healer? Poorly. It's a noticeable decrease in combat effectiveness.

It's still good enough to get through overland though.

MEBengalsFan2001

Royaji wrote: »

In comparison to a healer? Poorly. It's a noticeable decrease in combat effectiveness.

It's still good enough to get through overland though.

Right now for me in open world content I use two AoE abilities and most mobs are dead. If I can do something similar with 3 abilities as a tank would happy.

As for gear I know I want the Ebon set for the bonus health it provides the group. As for the second set I was thinking of using the trainee set to get 3K in all three stats to help with resources for myself.

If not that set, I was thinking of using Dreugh King Slayer, Knightmare, or Seventh Legion Brute to help boost my weapon damage.

What are your thoughts on those sets? I'm guess Knightmare maybe the better of the three for group content.

Royaji

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

In comparison to a healer? Poorly. It's a noticeable decrease in combat effectiveness.

It's still good enough to get through overland though.

Right now for me in open world content I use two AoE abilities and most mobs are dead. If I can do something similar with 3 abilities as a tank would happy.

As for gear I know I want the Ebon set for the bonus health it provides the group. As for the second set I was thinking of using the trainee set to get 3K in all three stats to help with resources for myself.

If not that set, I was thinking of using Dreugh King Slayer, Knightmare, or Seventh Legion Brute to help boost my weapon damage.

What are your thoughts on those sets? I'm guess Knightmare maybe the better of the three for group content.

A DoT and 2-3 spammable hits are usually enough.

Of the sets you are proposing I would say none of them. Trainee has been nerfed long ago to only give 1250 of each stat on 5-piece bonus. None of the damage sets have a place on a tank. When you truly are tanking your base weapon/spell damage and max resource will be terrible and buffing them is not going to help you in any way.

Sets you ideally want to look for are debuff/buff sets that help the group, like Alkosh and Yolnahkriin. Both are trial sets so they are more like end goal. Other option for newer tanks are sets that help you (and more importantly your group) with survivability although they should be treated a bit like training wheels. My preference for this is Battalion Defender. Although you can find other options in the same vein too.

MEBengalsFan2001

Royaji wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

In comparison to a healer? Poorly. It's a noticeable decrease in combat effectiveness.

It's still good enough to get through overland though.

Right now for me in open world content I use two AoE abilities and most mobs are dead. If I can do something similar with 3 abilities as a tank would happy.

As for gear I know I want the Ebon set for the bonus health it provides the group. As for the second set I was thinking of using the trainee set to get 3K in all three stats to help with resources for myself.

If not that set, I was thinking of using Dreugh King Slayer, Knightmare, or Seventh Legion Brute to help boost my weapon damage.

What are your thoughts on those sets? I'm guess Knightmare maybe the better of the three for group content.

A DoT and 2-3 spammable hits are usually enough.

Of the sets you are proposing I would say none of them. Trainee has been nerfed long ago to only give 1250 of each stat on 5-piece bonus. None of the damage sets have a place on a tank. When you truly are tanking your base weapon/spell damage and max resource will be terrible and buffing them is not going to help you in any way.

Sets you ideally want to look for are debuff/buff sets that help the group, like Alkosh and Yolnahkriin. Both are trial sets so they are more like end goal. Other option for newer tanks are sets that help you (and more importantly your group) with survivability although they should be treated a bit like training wheels. My preference for this is Battalion Defender. Although you can find other options in the same vein too.

As I expected, a set that buff/debuff to assist the group would be preferred. This is why I went with Ebon as my primary to provide health to the group as extra health never hurt anyone. It is also why I stated Knightmare would be better for group compared to the other sets I listed as that set has a 20% chance to apply Maim on enemies within 8m from the tank from melee attacks.

Since sets can be weapon and jewelry I could use one of the light sets that buff the group as well, such as power spell cure.

zvavi

Hmm, any heal set really (blood altar to proc for the win).
Tava's favor, dragon guard, war machine(in case u r more stamina focused) or master architect (if mag focused), alkosh, yol, and many more off meta sets.

MEBengalsFan2001

zvavi wrote: »

Hmm, any heal set really (blood altar to proc for the win).
Tava's favor, dragon guard, war machine(in case u r more stamina focused) or master architect (if mag focused), alkosh, yol, and many more off meta sets.

I have done some research and I am considering 3 probable sets.

Ebon for its health bonus to the group.
Brands of Imperium
Sanctuary to increase the group healing received (allowing healers to use another set) - would get this set with jewelry and weapons

I'm leaning towards Ebon and Sanctuary.

BejaProphet

I play a Nord DK tank with all 64 attributes into health.

When I swap into DPS mode I change gear, skills, and Mundas. I do nothing that requires coin. Attributes and CP remain the same as when I tank.

Result is 30-31k dps on a 3 mill target dummy. That of course will not impress any sweaty trial group. But I assure you it will melt quest bosses before they finish opening dialogues. It’s more than enough to run dungeons in DPS.

My point is it’s very very doable as a tank. A healer will have a bit of advantage because they will have less attributes into health. But you can be over kill level DPS for overland.

zvavi

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Hmm, any heal set really (blood altar to proc for the win).
Tava's favor, dragon guard, war machine(in case u r more stamina focused) or master architect (if mag focused), alkosh, yol, and many more off meta sets.

I have done some research and I am considering 3 probable sets.

Ebon for its health bonus to the group.
Brands of Imperium
Sanctuary to increase the group healing received (allowing healers to use another set) - would get this set with jewelry and weapons

I'm leaning towards Ebon and Sanctuary.

I would actually recommend against sanctuary, it is a beginner healing set that no proper healers use anyway (and usually wont help much). But worst, that if healer already wears it, you have a useless set. Between the two you want i would recommend brand of imperium. Healer sets that would be good and i would actually consider taking into dungeon:

Hollowfang (blood altar procs crits, altar gets crit from your dd's crit modifier, it gives minor vitality and magicka return).

Olorime (even though probably not recommend same reason as sanctuary, if healer already uses it a problem).

Spell power cure (same problem with olorime).

Eye of Nahviintaas (especially as templar, orb, altar and purge for 3 unique synergies).

Other tank sets i didnt mention earlier:
Livewire
Dragon's Defilement

thadjarvis

Dungeons: Ebon, Olo, Dragon all get the job done providing nice bonuses to both self and group.

As a templar I'd throw consider others too. Templar tanks have a health shield but no health scaling heal. Are you planning to push Stam or Mag (CP, stats, etc.) for healing?

If Stam: I'd consider Powerful Assualt (cheap buy) proc by using Vigor
If Mag: I'd consider Torug Pact (craft)

FrancisCrawford

Spell Power Cure is more accessible to many folks than Olorime.

Anyhow, flipping things around: How well does it work to tank while keeping attribute points in magicka? At that point using Plague Doctor as one of the sets might actually make sense. And you could be more serious about healing your group.

Kombinator

Both my characters are primary tank, and i figured, that the only thing you need is a weapon. Going overland in heavy armor, and mostly tank stuff works, but switching to shield+weapon is a HUGE drop on dps.

However going full tank stuff, but with normal weapon works fine. While your damage is not good as with specialized gear, but you need much less resources spent on survival. My characters need 0 skills used for self survival. The skills, that heal you while damaging enemies is enough.

I recommend using one weapon as shield+onehanded, and put your class skills while overworld, and use a pure damage weapon in the other hand, and put weapon skills mostly on it. In dungeon you only need to switch out the skills for the shield+onehanded. Should you face a boss, that cannot be tanked the usual way, or a large number weak mobs, then you can switch weapon, and deal damage instead.

MEBengalsFan2001

I decided on another path for a tank. Instead of stripping down my healer and getting near gear to tank on my main I ended up creating an Imperial DragonKnight. Quickly got her to level 20 and a friend and I are now grinding her out for SP and running the daily dungeon. I don't plan on playing my tank much as I still have much to do on my healer and as I acquire gear on my healer for a tank I will save them off in my bank. Just yesterday I ended up getting two different monster set heads that would work well with a tank, my luck with the boxes for getting the shoulders was zero. .

As for sets I decided Ebon and the set that drops from White Gold Tower. I feel those sets would work well together and help my group out. As for open world damage I find using the Earthern that buffs weapon damage and the passive that does something similar and using the 1H&S debuff abilities provide a good balance for me to take enemies out rather quickly. With talon holding them it ensures even faster killing. I know it isn't quickly killing like I hoped but it works.

I do have a frost staff but right now my 1H & S is already level 30ish vs. level 5 for my staff. I'm currently at 40 SP and know I need many more for the build I plan on doing. Having 400+ CP does help.

This character is going to be slowly built and the reasoning for that is my healer still needs gear first and foremost.

Thanks all for the replies.

Next up is creating a stamina DPS and getting gear for my Templar to make him a magika DPS.

Shantu

You know there are add-ons that will allow you to switch your CP's and gear sets in about 30 seconds. I have a templar that runs as both a StamPlar and a tank. One thing I wouldn't do is try to level up by doing overland content with a tank. Too slow.

MEBengalsFan2001

Shantu wrote: »

You know there are add-ons that will allow you to switch your CP's and gear sets in about 30 seconds. I have a templar that runs as both a StamPlar and a tank. One thing I wouldn't do is try to level up by doing overland content with a tank. Too slow.

I play on PS4 and as far as I know there are no add-on for the PS4.

xaraan

Looks like you figured out what you're planning already, but I'll throw my two cents in for anyone else playing a tank for questing.

On all my tanks (outside of needing to level up a skill line) I do not run heavy armor and 1H shield when questing. I level light armor and staff at the same time and when I do quests I throw on a couple light sets (usually something basic like seducer/bright-throat gear and use Ghastly Eyebowl food since I won't need health from food with all my points into health stats). You need to level staff anyway for tanking (or should, don't really HAVE to) and it's nice to level up light and med armor anyway for the non 5pc passives, so I just go ahead and throw points into the rest of the LA passives as well.

For CP (when you get to that point), it's not as optimized as a DPS build, but you have a little leeway to put some points toward damage since the same CP that you worry about for tanking isn't the same tree for damage.

So when I do quests, I never worry about changing CP or stat points, I just throw on my light gear, eat a magicka only food and go to town. Since my mundus on my tanks is usually magicka regen, I don't even change that. The build is more than strong enough to get through overland pve content.

I'm sure you could take the same approach if you wanted to do a stam build, I just prefer magicka since I run a magicka regen tank already mundus wise and since I'm already putting points into destro staff.

thadjarvis

Note that SPC's buff is the most likely buff covered by a healer in a group. A self-survival ("selfish"), Dragon (particularly great on DKs), or a different buff set may be more beneficial. Though I guess it could help speed up base game normal pledges.

On the other hand, if you're doing coordinated groups with 3 DPS a major courage set is a fantastic choice! Imo Olo with an Arena set is really strong but SPC was used often before Olo was released.

zvavi

thadjarvis wrote: »

Note that SPC's buff is the most likely buff covered by a healer in a group. A self-survival ("selfish"), Dragon (particularly great on DKs), or a different buff set may be more beneficial. Though I guess it could help speed up base game normal pledges.

On the other hand, if you're doing coordinated groups with 3 DPS a major courage set is a fantastic choice! Imo Olo with an Arena set is really strong but SPC was used often before Olo was released.

Tava's favor is superior to dragon guard as long as you roll an attack at least 3 times a minute. It also helps getting good tank habits (trading stamina for health, roll dodging heavy attacks) and the only place where dragon guard is actually better is cloudrest (where everything can't he dodged). It is even better specifically on dk, because your ults will be more often AND restore more resources.

MEBengalsFan2001

xaraan wrote: »

Looks like you figured out what you're planning already, but I'll throw my two cents in for anyone else playing a tank for questing.

On all my tanks (outside of needing to level up a skill line) I do not run heavy armor and 1H shield when questing. I level light armor and staff at the same time and when I do quests I throw on a couple light sets (usually something basic like seducer/bright-throat gear and use Ghastly Eyebowl food since I won't need health from food with all my points into health stats). You need to level staff anyway for tanking (or should, don't really HAVE to) and it's nice to level up light and med armor anyway for the non 5pc passives, so I just go ahead and throw points into the rest of the LA passives as well.

For CP (when you get to that point), it's not as optimized as a DPS build, but you have a little leeway to put some points toward damage since the same CP that you worry about for tanking isn't the same tree for damage.

So when I do quests, I never worry about changing CP or stat points, I just throw on my light gear, eat a magicka only food and go to town. Since my mundus on my tanks is usually magicka regen, I don't even change that. The build is more than strong enough to get through overland pve content.

I'm sure you could take the same approach if you wanted to do a stam build, I just prefer magicka since I run a magicka regen tank already mundus wise and since I'm already putting points into destro staff.

Thanks for the tips.

I always run 1 of each type of armor when I level up a character and I always have two weapons types between my front and back bar. My DK character is using a destro staff and 1H and shield.

I have most of the primary abilities I will be running. I would like to get the Aggressive Horn on my DK, do I need to run PVP to get that opened up or does the alliance point earns from the daily award work towards that skill line?

zvavi

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Looks like you figured out what you're planning already, but I'll throw my two cents in for anyone else playing a tank for questing.

On all my tanks (outside of needing to level up a skill line) I do not run heavy armor and 1H shield when questing. I level light armor and staff at the same time and when I do quests I throw on a couple light sets (usually something basic like seducer/bright-throat gear and use Ghastly Eyebowl food since I won't need health from food with all my points into health stats). You need to level staff anyway for tanking (or should, don't really HAVE to) and it's nice to level up light and med armor anyway for the non 5pc passives, so I just go ahead and throw points into the rest of the LA passives as well.

For CP (when you get to that point), it's not as optimized as a DPS build, but you have a little leeway to put some points toward damage since the same CP that you worry about for tanking isn't the same tree for damage.

So when I do quests, I never worry about changing CP or stat points, I just throw on my light gear, eat a magicka only food and go to town. Since my mundus on my tanks is usually magicka regen, I don't even change that. The build is more than strong enough to get through overland pve content.

I'm sure you could take the same approach if you wanted to do a stam build, I just prefer magicka since I run a magicka regen tank already mundus wise and since I'm already putting points into destro staff.

Thanks for the tips.

I always run 1 of each type of armor when I level up a character and I always have two weapons types between my front and back bar. My DK character is using a destro staff and 1H and shield.

I have most of the primary abilities I will be running. I would like to get the Aggressive Horn on my DK, do I need to run PVP to get that opened up or does the alliance point earns from the daily award work towards that skill line?

They work, but it takes eternity.

MEBengalsFan2001

zvavi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Looks like you figured out what you're planning already, but I'll throw my two cents in for anyone else playing a tank for questing.

On all my tanks (outside of needing to level up a skill line) I do not run heavy armor and 1H shield when questing. I level light armor and staff at the same time and when I do quests I throw on a couple light sets (usually something basic like seducer/bright-throat gear and use Ghastly Eyebowl food since I won't need health from food with all my points into health stats). You need to level staff anyway for tanking (or should, don't really HAVE to) and it's nice to level up light and med armor anyway for the non 5pc passives, so I just go ahead and throw points into the rest of the LA passives as well.

For CP (when you get to that point), it's not as optimized as a DPS build, but you have a little leeway to put some points toward damage since the same CP that you worry about for tanking isn't the same tree for damage.

So when I do quests, I never worry about changing CP or stat points, I just throw on my light gear, eat a magicka only food and go to town. Since my mundus on my tanks is usually magicka regen, I don't even change that. The build is more than strong enough to get through overland pve content.

I'm sure you could take the same approach if you wanted to do a stam build, I just prefer magicka since I run a magicka regen tank already mundus wise and since I'm already putting points into destro staff.

Thanks for the tips.

I always run 1 of each type of armor when I level up a character and I always have two weapons types between my front and back bar. My DK character is using a destro staff and 1H and shield.

I have most of the primary abilities I will be running. I would like to get the Aggressive Horn on my DK, do I need to run PVP to get that opened up or does the alliance point earns from the daily award work towards that skill line?

They work, but it takes eternity.

Maybe it was do to being a Breton my healer went up so fast with the alliance points. I think he is around 6 for those ATM.

Hotdog_23

I have a magic Templar tank, all point into magic. Get health from sets. CP point are tank focus and I do not change them. Use tristate food generally only need trash stamina and magic potions most of the time. Go into dungeon as dps but have sword and board back bar always and flame staff front bar. If DLC dungeons I will announce I will change sets and skills and be real tank. If it is a base game dungeon, I will say I will change if needed and go as dps but still have sword and board to debuff boss and hard hitting adds.

Even though I am magic based, I use power of the light for the debuff if needed for stam dps and restoring focus for stamina regen. Only really, need stam for blocking and power of the light. Always stand in restoring focus on boss fights for extra resistances and cleansing ritual for the heal.

Weakness of my build is no pull. Since I am magic based, I cannot afford the pull skill from fighter’s guild skill line. As far as weakness of Templar tanking in harder content is no health based heal and of course no pull ability in class skills.

To me it is a fun build and different for the standard DK and Warden Tanks that are stamina based. Have those also when needed but I think I like the Templar tank more as it is more fun.

Forgot to mention I wear 2 dps sets and monster helm and do good dps one set I use is false gods which helps with magic sustain when dpsing since I have restoring focus and the stamina regen from it and not magic from other morph. Of course, change to tank sets and helm when changing to tank mode when needed. Hope this helps. Remember paly to have fun.

Almost forgot darkelf vampire as well.

MEBengalsFan2001

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I have a magic Templar tank, all point into magic. Get health from sets. CP point are tank focus and I do not change them. Use tristate food generally only need trash stamina and magic potions most of the time. Go into dungeon as dps but have sword and board back bar always and flame staff front bar. If DLC dungeons I will announce I will change sets and skills and be real tank. If it is a base game dungeon, I will say I will change if needed and go as dps but still have sword and board to debuff boss and hard hitting adds.

Even though I am magic based, I use power of the light for the debuff if needed for stam dps and restoring focus for stamina regen. Only really, need stam for blocking and power of the light. Always stand in restoring focus on boss fights for extra resistances and cleansing ritual for the heal.

Weakness of my build is no pull. Since I am magic based, I cannot afford the pull skill from fighter’s guild skill line. As far as weakness of Templar tanking in harder content is no health based heal and of course no pull ability in class skills.

To me it is a fun build and different for the standard DK and Warden Tanks that are stamina based. Have those also when needed but I think I like the Templar tank more as it is more fun.

Forgot to mention I wear 2 dps sets and monster helm and do good dps one set I use is false gods which helps with magic sustain when dpsing since I have restoring focus and the stamina regen from it and not magic from other morph. Of course, change to tank sets and helm when changing to tank mode when needed. Hope this helps. Remember paly to have fun.

Almost forgot darkelf vampire as well.

Once I get tank gear it sounds like I could tank on my templar. I will try that out once I get enough skill points to put into the 1h & shield skill line. For now I will continue using my templar as a healer and I am slowly getting my DragonKnight up in levels. I get roughly 2 levels a day on my dragonknight.

thadjarvis

zvavi wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

Note that SPC's buff is the most likely buff covered by a healer in a group. A self-survival ("selfish"), Dragon (particularly great on DKs), or a different buff set may be more beneficial. Though I guess it could help speed up base game normal pledges.

On the other hand, if you're doing coordinated groups with 3 DPS a major courage set is a fantastic choice! Imo Olo with an Arena set is really strong but SPC was used often before Olo was released.

Tava's favor is superior to dragon guard as long as you roll an attack at least 3 times a minute. It also helps getting good tank habits (trading stamina for health, roll dodging heavy attacks) and the only place where dragon guard is actually better is cloudrest (where everything can't he dodged). It is even better specifically on dk, because your ults will be more often AND restore more resources.

Agreed. Anything that helps reinforce not permablocking most of the time is good. I had to learn to tank twice; best to avoid that.

I've played around with Tava for CR Gryphon and to churn out Warden Trees for kicks, but your note is making me think of using it more often.

Gnortranermara

Not being able to kill things solo is the #1 reason why I don't tank more. Healers can have really solid combat effectiveness (58k on my latest trial dummy test, with a 4-man dungeon combat healer build). Tanks can't do that. Stats are split in too many directions, and the armor passives aren't nearly as good for dealing damage.

But if you can overlook the damage limitations, Templar tank is getting some buffs next patch. Ritual/Rune with the Sacred Ground passive will increase Block mitigation instead of snare (an awesome change), and if you wear the Tormentor set (single bar!) you'll get the only AOE taunt in the game: Explosive Charge. That'll function really well for getting ahead of DPS and pulling aggro first. (You still gotta run Puncture for armor stripping on bosses though, which is fair.)

Wait... maybe Lotus Fan will work with Tormentor, too? IDK. Need to go look...

BejaProphet

Increased block mit is very strong and Templar’s already had some last I looked. So that will be a big plus for them.