My view on whats really hurting pve/pvp content in Eso many of you might even agree on some of it.

Thevampirenight

Whether its balancing or performance these two things are the biggest issues that the game has always had every mmo has issues when it comes to balancing and Eso has issues with performance other mmos don't have nearly as bad with performance. But then some might have it worse. But these have been big issues in Eso throughout its several years of operation.

Biggest issues would be they keep switching changing things around in a chaotic way ruining builds, nerfing abilties to the ground so players won't use them buffing abilties so they become op then have to be nerfed again next big patch. Like there isn't a standard at all but they are not satisfied and keep switching things around changing mechanics over and over again. This seems to be every single big dlc or chapter update every single one.

Saying it again here because its important this is angering folks more an more and over and over again. Every single big update dlc or chapter patch this is happening again and and again players are sick of it. Nerfs, buffs changing how abilities work. Changing item sets nerfing them or buffing them to the point it ruins build after build some of these builds cost millions upon millions of gold because players charge to get the best gear imaginable. This happening every single time it seems like and over and over again. Many of you might have examples of past examples of this I imagine many of those that have been doing builds have a story or two to tell about this trend that is have been going on.

Someones build is is always destoryed or most builds keep getting destroyed over and over again. Because of the over dynamic changes that keep going on like a plague and do the factor of can't make up their minds on how certain abilties work. A lot of changes can even be contributed to mob demand or rule which is another issue I will get into a moment. Each big patch shouldn't be doing that at all. Many some of them but not every dlc or chapter patch.

One of the biggest issues with balance though is item sets. Pvp is so unbalanecd because someone always finds an item set that gives some great big advantage over their other players and other players start coping and over time to many use it they see the issues people demand nerfs on these sets they get nerfed down. Same principle with abilties if one is over performing in pvp. They nerf because the mob demands it because so many are copying someone else. The effects of mob rule need to be lessened don't listen to the mob rule find a balance.Sometimes its the majority mob sometimes its the minority either way Pvers get hurt. Their ability to do content gets hurt. Because they have to nerf the abilties or item sets down because of the pvp. Pvp and pve are not separate. To fix the issues they got to be separate In all things. So if something gets nerfed or ruined for pvp it doesn't ruin it for pve or vice versa.

Item sets, there is so many pve sets out there but there is also pvp sets which are fewer. You can do content with either that has to be changed we will keep having these issues over and over again until its done. Only pve sets with pve and only pvp with pvp. That is how you balance. The sets need to be reworked into this principle. Abilities as well.

Pvp Sets should be disabled for all pve zones only work in pvp situations and all pve sets need to be disabled in all pvp and zones.
I'm going to call this the arena principle. If anyone has ever done the Arena Faction in Oblivion. What made this faction unique is what they required of you. You can wear any helm of your choosing but had to wear the gladiator uniform with its own buffs and standards. Could not wear anything else. But you could use any weapon of your choosing. Why was this because certain things can really unbalance the outcomes. Armors with certain enchantments better quality gear makes things unbalanced that way. This rule gives both sides more of a fighting chance in beating their opponents. The arena effect would use a similar principle based off that. Only allowing sets that are balanced towards the content they were built for.

All a good arena fighter needs is his armor, his class abilties, cp or no cp points, his passives with no extra crunch by pve sets. They actually don't even need item sets but they should be using the item sets that were built for pvp in mind. Because those would be balanced or more balanced towards that content. So you want balanced pvp no pve item sets in pvp PERIOD. No pvp sets in pve PERIOD. Disable their effects if they are being used in content they should not be used in. This will help with make it so players do not have to constantly change up or trash their armor sets they play lots of gold for because they get nerfed because of pvpers abusing them. Or vice versa.


Abilities are more difficult to balance. But a debuff of what they can do on players or separate form of damage for them when it comes to abilties would be something that can partly separate the two.

The so called fake patch notes just using three examples from that is an example of the type of thing they have done in the past with other abilities item sets and mechanics since they are fake they will likely not happen but still good examples so that is why I'm posting them. Three Examples that might get many get players in a uproar or angry or annoyed if they go live. The Nerf to vampire drain because of pvp and thus hurting it for pve. The nerf to nightblades invisibility if that were to go live that would hinder their stealth abilties change obviously relating to pvp would add a fatigue that would prevent the use of the ability for five seconds aka a cooldown. Blocking fatigue that would increase the cost of abilties used with block by 5 percent each time its used. To remove the fatigue got to not block for 3 seconds during which time some creature can wipe you. Big deal in very hard content very big deal when it comes to survivablity in pve.

Fatigue effects should be a debuff only in pvp zones if they were going to do this it should be only in those zones. Don't hurt the pve because of the pvp. Or vice versa.All three of those changes would have pvp in mind. Thus will hurt pve in ways. Though the nightblade change might be more damaging to players abilties to use their class in pvp. The other two really would their use for pve. That just how it is. The one that really would grind peoples gears would be the blocking change and for obvious reasons it would really hurt a tanks ability and peoples ability to survive a very big deal in pve content. I bet threads on threads would start up to complain or demand a revert. Only to get very upset and those threads closed. Its happened before so it will happen again if anything like this was to go live.

A player was right do not do what you have always done change for once. Doing what you have always done is not fixing it its not balancing anything. Its making it worse and only causing more people to get disgusted. Someone posted something like that in this thread and I do agree with it. Changing it over and over again isn't going to get you a different result it just will not happen. As someone will always find another way and the problems start all over again.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/507778/update-25-combat-adjustments#latest

idk

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Abilities are more difficult to balance. But a debuff of what they can do on players or separate form of damage for them when it comes to abilties would be something that can partly separate the two.

We already have this in PvP. It is called Battle Spirit Reduces all damage and healing done by 50%. Heck of a debuff

Thevampirenight

idk wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Abilities are more difficult to balance. But a debuff of what they can do on players or separate form of damage for them when it comes to abilties would be something that can partly separate the two.

We already have this in PvP. It is called Battle Spirit Reduces all damage and healing done by 50%. Heck of a debuff

Well they need more then just a passive debuff maybe coding it into the abilties themselves. So they can manage them without having to hurt one side or another. Even with a reduction in damage and healing output there would still be lots of issues and complaints about stuff and the demand for nerfs. If they have to nerf something it should be the content they are nerfing it for and not other content that the abilties are very needed in. There has to be a total or almost seperation of pvp and pve in this game and its one of the reason why these problems keep poping up.

They keeping making changes that hurts one side or the other. Every single big update. Whens the last time they just left class and item set mechanics and all combat mechanics alone does anyone even know? I'm not trying to rant but well you seee nerf threads all the time along with big changes to many mechanics. Each big patch.I did not make this thread to rant even if it sounds like one Its not for myself but some of it is my feelings on the issue. Because I'm a more causual pver and sometimes pvper but mainly a roleplayer and people take the builds thing way to seriously.. I made this thread for the player base in general so there could be a constructive conversation about this because its an issue and its sad players can't do the content they want if they nerf something that makes it so they have to redo their builds just do to the content they want to do. Every single big update. I do think there has to be a change they can't keep going on like this forever. At some point people will just leave in mass. Because they can't keep their game stable.

Hopefully things change they will add in a change that makes it so they don't have to keeping changing things over and over and over again. I do hope Zenimax is trying to do this for once. So they can focus more on adding great story content and have to spend less time on changing game mechanics each time. Because of someone upset that they died in a pvp match or because some ability that does high damage killed them. Its not just about your death recap this isn't real life you can respawn your character and only pve really damages your gear from what I understand so a pvp death isn't as big of a deal but more of an annoyance. If an ability is way out of tune they will adjust it. But we shouldn't be demanding it even if its op. If its op they will know its op they have the data they know which abilties are way overused and they adjust accordingly.

Nemesis7884

the issue is always the same - you need to balance pvp and pve separately - you can not and will never be able to balance them simultaneously - thats why hardly any mmo does it.

Why? pvp requires a lot of standardization to make it balanced - thats why a lot of popular pvp games are very standardized to even the planeield.

But standardization is poison to rpg's and pve group content becaues it makes roles and choices uninteresting...and is also in stark contrast to class identities.

By the time they will have achieved their standardization of skills they will have a game where roles and class choices dont matter...

The only way i see how this will work is - i think - if they abandon classes alltogether in true elder scrolls fashion and move to a purely skill based no class system...which i would totally support - anything that moves ESO more towards TES is for me a good thing...

Sergykid

so many walls of text with just repetitive stuff. Players want to cheese both in pve and pvp. U don't need any bis or popular set to do anything, but the best or the cheesier set or ability will always be picked. Some sets are either ez cheese or trash, or too niche.

StrandedMonkey

nerf fossilize

this was brought to you buy the nerf fossilize gang

snoozy

this is now a nerf sorc thread

jokes aside, how are you supposed to get pvp sets in the first place if you can't use pve gear in pvp?
how are you gonna earn new sets when all your pve set bonuses are disabled? this puts new players at a huge advantage against experienced pvpers.

TheFM

The constant reshuffle of classes is what caused me to dump 10 of my 11 toons and only focus on my main. I cannot be bothered to regear, retrait, and relearn all my classes over and over. So sorc life it is from this point out.

Agree with you mostly here.

TheFM

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

the issue is always the same - you need to balance pvp and pve separately - you can not and will never be able to balance them simultaneously - thats why hardly any mmo does it.

Why? pvp requires a lot of standardization to make it balanced - thats why a lot of popular pvp games are very standardized to even the planeield.

But standardization is poison to rpg's and pve group content becaues it makes roles and choices uninteresting...and is also in stark contrast to class identities.

By the time they will have achieved their standardization of skills they will have a game where roles and class choices dont matter...

The only way i see how this will work is - i think - if they abandon classes alltogether in true elder scrolls fashion and move to a purely skill based no class system...which i would totally support - anything that moves ESO more towards TES is for me a good thing...

We need pvp specific gear, there is no way around it, pvp should be based on skill, with gear being a side thought, not gear with skill being a side thought.

snoozy

TheFM wrote: »

We need pvp specific gear, there is no way around it, pvp should be based on skill, with gear being a side thought, not gear with skill being a side thought.

agree on this one

Bobby_V_Rockit

Nerf jabs eh? I like the cut of your jib!

AgaTheGreat

This is never going to change because causing changes increases player retention and engagement. They count on people's addiction to the game and they know for a fact that majority of dissatisfied players will still stay, farm, adjust.

kargen27

"Item sets, there is so many pve sets out there but there is also pvp sets which are fewer. You can do content with either that has to be changed we will keep having these issues over and over again until its done. Only pve sets with pve and only pvp with pvp. That is how you balance."

This would be very bad for the long term health of the game. For an MMO to survive there needs to be new content, players need to repeat content (explains the grinds) and players need to participate in many aspects of the game. PvP gear is good for PvE to entice you to play content you might otherwise not play. Good for the game. Likewise skills and armor from PvE content is preferred by some in PvP. Also good for the game. If there is no incentive to try other aspects of the game the game becomes stale much quicker. I'm guessing they are pushing out content about as fast as they can so players no longer feeling the need to participate in a diverse amount of content would cause the game to stagnate and die much quicker than an MMO should. The grinds and the cross play between PvE and PvP is needed for the health of the game.

Thevampirenight

kargen27 wrote: »

"Item sets, there is so many pve sets out there but there is also pvp sets which are fewer. You can do content with either that has to be changed we will keep having these issues over and over again until its done. Only pve sets with pve and only pvp with pvp. That is how you balance."

This would be very bad for the long term health of the game. For an MMO to survive there needs to be new content, players need to repeat content (explains the grinds) and players need to participate in many aspects of the game. PvP gear is good for PvE to entice you to play content you might otherwise not play. Good for the game. Likewise skills and armor from PvE content is preferred by some in PvP. Also good for the game. If there is no incentive to try other aspects of the game the game becomes stale much quicker. I'm guessing they are pushing out content about as fast as they can so players no longer feeling the need to participate in a diverse amount of content would cause the game to stagnate and die much quicker than an MMO should. The grinds and the cross play between PvE and PvP is needed for the health of the game.

Well here is the thing just because they do separate sets for content does not mean players won't enjoy both but there will always be those that don't want to pve at all and those that don't want to pvp at all. . What it would do is make it so players will be limited in their ability to break the balance. Pvp sets being used by pve would not exactly be as bad as pve sets used for pvp. Because the pve sets are designed to tackle more difficult pve content. Something pvp sets don't need since they are built around killing other players. They can even design a pve gear tab and a pvp gear tab. So you can switch between the two gears. Have a pvp gear slot and a pve one. That could work just as great. Content wouldn't become stagnant. This could even help player's manage their pvp and pve builds easier. So one tab for pve gear only one for pvp gear only. But allow the choice of weapon at least and can slot anything just the passive bonus from that type of gear won't work. If its a pvp in a pve slot. Or vice versa but still can wear it and it gives the armor protection at least. But no bonus like item set would work in that slot. Because it has to be in the other one.

THis could even make it so they do more stuff for people to earn the pvp gear in pvp zones. So the idea is they can update and give each side a new set per chapter or dlc. Pvp have it easier since they don't have to buy the content per say. So that would be a bonus but they could make it so you have to do imperial city pvp to earn it if they wanted to go that route.

kargen27

"Well here is the thing just because they do separate sets for content does not mean players won't enjoy both but there will always be those that don't want to pve at all and those that don't want to pvp at all. ."

Yes and that is why the sets and skills are as they are. ZoS wants players to do both. I would never had gone to PvP if I didn't want some of the skills. Turns out I like PvP so for me it was good to have the incentive. I'm guessing I am not the only player that feels that way. Having a trial set work well for PvP gives PvP'rs incentive to run that trial. Maybe they hate it and never run it again after getting the gear or maybe they like it. Either way they were inspired to run different content. That is good for the long term health of the game.

I agree there is a problem in balance but you are looking in the wrong direction for a fix. What you are suggesting would stagnate the game and cause quicker player loss. Players who insist on playing only one part of the game move on quicker than those that spread their play time around. Sure a new armor set found in a trial that is good for PvP might annoy some players for a bit as they decide do they want to farm it or not but in the long run that new armor set will be good for the game.

Stevie6

I’ve been on eso for 2 1/2 years and I have to agree with the others in this thread. ESO should separate pve and pvp from each other. You should be able to create either a pvp or pve character at the character creation screen and then proceed to different servers from there.

Class identity has been brought up on a few threads now. Each class should be unique with subdivided classes. We need pure class recognition. Magica class with specialized subclasses ie, necromancer, wizard, illusionist, etc. Magica users should have more weapons ie. staves, wands, books, scrolls, dagger, use of hands as weapons to cast spells. Some of the guild skills needs to be separate. Mage guild for mages, fighter guild for fighters, etc

For those that want a blend of magic and stamina you have nightblade, thieves, warden, and maybe a new class like druids, bards, etc. Fighter class have dragonnights, and maybe new classes like berserkers, paladin, bowman. Healers well are just healers..priest, Templar, and so on. Fighter class should be mainly stamina based not magica and the same with magica class ea having large class pools to work with. We also need better damage modifiers. 90 percent of the player base is between 5k to 15k dps. Get good is not the answer. There are too many factors that come into play like bad internet, players with disabilities, having a life other than eso. Something has to be done for the player base to bring up the damage or a lot of the end game content will forever be locked from them. As for myself, I just do solo vet dungeons and not trials because of terrible lag (Suddenlink).

Maybe a dev will listen to the player base and not the elites or whiners. There needs to be a compromise. For those that have been online longer I congratulate you for putting up with a lot of changes and putting in your dues, but the devs have become increasingly ambiguous and ambivalent towards players in general.

Sorry for the wall of text from a rambling old fool with very little wisdom. 😏

Thevampirenight

Stevie6 wrote: »

I’ve been on eso for 2 1/2 years and I have to agree with the others in this thread. ESO should separate pve and pvp from each other. You should be able to create either a pvp or pve character at the character creation screen and then proceed to different servers from there.

Class identity has been brought up on a few threads now. Each class should be unique with subdivided classes. We need pure class recognition. Magica class with specialized subclasses ie, necromancer, wizard, illusionist, etc. Magica users should have more weapons ie. staves, wands, books, scrolls, dagger, use of hands as weapons to cast spells. Some of the guild skills needs to be separate. Mage guild for mages, fighter guild for fighters, etc

For those that want a blend of magic and stamina you have nightblade, thieves, warden, and maybe a new class like druids, bards, etc. Fighter class have dragonnights, and maybe new classes like berserkers, paladin, bowman. Healers well are just healers..priest, Templar, and so on. Fighter class should be mainly stamina based not magica and the same with magica class ea having large class pools to work with. We also need better damage modifiers. 90 percent of the player base is between 5k to 15k dps. Get good is not the answer. There are too many factors that come into play like bad internet, players with disabilities, having a life other than eso. Something has to be done for the player base to bring up the damage or a lot of the end game content will forever be locked from them. As for myself, I just do solo vet dungeons and not trials because of terrible lag (Suddenlink).

Maybe a dev will listen to the player base and not the elites or whiners. There needs to be a compromise. For those that have been online longer I congratulate you for putting up with a lot of changes and putting in your dues, but the devs have become increasingly ambiguous and ambivalent towards players in general.

Sorry for the wall of text from a rambling old fool with very little wisdom. 😏

Well that type of change would require a new game to be made. But no they can separate while keeping it how it is in terms of freedom of choice. The main thing they do need to separate is sets. Then add in unique code to each of the abilties that can allow them to balance those abilties along pve or pvp lines. Or maybe add a unique class selection of abilties that can only be used in pvp that are the pvp versions of your class skills. That could another thing they could do as well. Many ideas out there. Balancing them as separate would help but there does need to be freedom of choice in what ever content you want to do one day you might want to roleplay another you want to pvp or pve that freedom of choice needs to remain the idea is preventing set passives or abilties from working the same way in certain content. Some like the idea of it being mixed. But in terms of balance. Pve and Pvp are two different animals. But are being treated as if one animal. That has to be changed. They have to treated as two different animals. But they have to do it in a way that is possible with the game software and coding. It could be done but it would take some work I think to set it all up. But I think it would be more worth it in the end.

Hanokihs

Been here since beta, and from where I'm sitting, the game was a lot more fun back when classes were unique, there weren't dozens of redundant armor sets, and nobody had become obsessed with nerfing all the skills and passives into the ground.

Now, there's no genuine bonus or drawback to picking one class over another, theorycrafting is a niche hobby instead of a viable exercise in experimentation, and every fight feels like I'm slapping around a brick wall with a wet noodle. The once fresh-faced, speedy combat system has become a messy joke of broken skills and identically-geared people spamming light attacks at enemies/each other.

There's no progression. Half or more of the events are repetitive and too much of a grind. Endgame is hard to break into, and dedicated groups for it grow more and more scarce. The servers are garbage, there's too much lag/instability, and the instancing in some places is fatal to story-based immersion. The merchant/gold system is basically the same few hundred people trading millions of coin back and forth.

We can't even get QoL improvements or features for character design and the housing system. My altmer still can't have black hair or decide to display his tats by not wearing a shirt as part of his costume.

Nobody cares anymore. At this point, I'm mostly just collecting flashy mounts and watching the map fill in.

Kesstryl

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

This is never going to change because causing changes increases player retention and engagement. They count on people's addiction to the game and they know for a fact that majority of dissatisfied players will still stay, farm, adjust.

Um no it doesn't. My dwindling guilds and myself included have greatly lost interest in playing with this past year of nerfs and changes. I'm trying to play, but the only thing I do is a weekly trial which has been very hard to fill the roster for in that guild (we used to fill it up) so we pug in Craglorn. Other than that, I just grab my daily rewards and log out. I have no desire to play and keep re-doing my characters. I lost progress and have no desire to farm and change and grind to get it back. It's demotivating.

AcadianPaladin

The game has tried to balance PvE and PvP together for five years now - how's that workin' out? How many years does it take to seriously consider that the premise may be faulty?

Mr_Walker

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The game has tried to balance PvE and PvP together for five years now - how's that workin' out? How many years does it take to seriously consider that the premise may be faulty?

Obviously more than 5.

I know the intent is to get people to continue to play the game, to chase the meta, but it's having the opposite effect on me and a few of my guildies.

ThePhantomThorn

nerf templar.

alsooooo
i get the idea.
i would like to see lots of sets and skills with changes made trough battle spirit.
but something id like to se more of is less tanky damage builds. basically the tank meta. its bad. if you want damage you should have to sacrifice tankyness

pod88kk

Buff battle spirit

ThePhantomThorn

i think we can agree, the game has been getting worse for a long time now.
my best memorys were in morrowind
kinda sad.

#bringbackwrobel

Digiman

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Whether its balancing or performance these two things are the biggest issues that the game has always had every mmo has issues when it comes to balancing and Eso has issues with performance other mmos don't have nearly as bad with performance. But then some might have it worse. But these have been big issues in Eso throughout its several years of operation.

Biggest issues would be they keep switching changing things around in a chaotic way ruining builds, nerfing abilties to the ground so players won't use them buffing abilties so they become op then have to be nerfed again next big patch. Like there isn't a standard at all but they are not satisfied and keep switching things around changing mechanics over and over again. This seems to be every single big dlc or chapter update every single one.

Saying it again here because its important this is angering folks more an more and over and over again. Every single big update dlc or chapter patch this is happening again and and again players are sick of it. Nerfs, buffs changing how abilities work. Changing item sets nerfing them or buffing them to the point it ruins build after build some of these builds cost millions upon millions of gold because players charge to get the best gear imaginable. This happening every single time it seems like and over and over again. Many of you might have examples of past examples of this I imagine many of those that have been doing builds have a story or two to tell about this trend that is have been going on.

Someones build is is always destoryed or most builds keep getting destroyed over and over again. Because of the over dynamic changes that keep going on like a plague and do the factor of can't make up their minds on how certain abilties work. A lot of changes can even be contributed to mob demand or rule which is another issue I will get into a moment. Each big patch shouldn't be doing that at all. Many some of them but not every dlc or chapter patch.

One of the biggest issues with balance though is item sets. Pvp is so unbalanecd because someone always finds an item set that gives some great big advantage over their other players and other players start coping and over time to many use it they see the issues people demand nerfs on these sets they get nerfed down. Same principle with abilties if one is over performing in pvp. They nerf because the mob demands it because so many are copying someone else. The effects of mob rule need to be lessened don't listen to the mob rule find a balance.Sometimes its the majority mob sometimes its the minority either way Pvers get hurt. Their ability to do content gets hurt. Because they have to nerf the abilties or item sets down because of the pvp. Pvp and pve are not separate. To fix the issues they got to be separate In all things. So if something gets nerfed or ruined for pvp it doesn't ruin it for pve or vice versa.

Item sets, there is so many pve sets out there but there is also pvp sets which are fewer. You can do content with either that has to be changed we will keep having these issues over and over again until its done. Only pve sets with pve and only pvp with pvp. That is how you balance. The sets need to be reworked into this principle. Abilities as well.

Pvp Sets should be disabled for all pve zones only work in pvp situations and all pve sets need to be disabled in all pvp and zones.
I'm going to call this the arena principle. If anyone has ever done the Arena Faction in Oblivion. What made this faction unique is what they required of you. You can wear any helm of your choosing but had to wear the gladiator uniform with its own buffs and standards. Could not wear anything else. But you could use any weapon of your choosing. Why was this because certain things can really unbalance the outcomes. Armors with certain enchantments better quality gear makes things unbalanced that way. This rule gives both sides more of a fighting chance in beating their opponents. The arena effect would use a similar principle based off that. Only allowing sets that are balanced towards the content they were built for.

All a good arena fighter needs is his armor, his class abilties, cp or no cp points, his passives with no extra crunch by pve sets. They actually don't even need item sets but they should be using the item sets that were built for pvp in mind. Because those would be balanced or more balanced towards that content. So you want balanced pvp no pve item sets in pvp PERIOD. No pvp sets in pve PERIOD. Disable their effects if they are being used in content they should not be used in. This will help with make it so players do not have to constantly change up or trash their armor sets they play lots of gold for because they get nerfed because of pvpers abusing them. Or vice versa.


Abilities are more difficult to balance. But a debuff of what they can do on players or separate form of damage for them when it comes to abilties would be something that can partly separate the two.

The so called fake patch notes just using three examples from that is an example of the type of thing they have done in the past with other abilities item sets and mechanics since they are fake they will likely not happen but still good examples so that is why I'm posting them. Three Examples that might get many get players in a uproar or angry or annoyed if they go live. The Nerf to vampire drain because of pvp and thus hurting it for pve. The nerf to nightblades invisibility if that were to go live that would hinder their stealth abilties change obviously relating to pvp would add a fatigue that would prevent the use of the ability for five seconds aka a cooldown. Blocking fatigue that would increase the cost of abilties used with block by 5 percent each time its used. To remove the fatigue got to not block for 3 seconds during which time some creature can wipe you. Big deal in very hard content very big deal when it comes to survivablity in pve.

Fatigue effects should be a debuff only in pvp zones if they were going to do this it should be only in those zones. Don't hurt the pve because of the pvp. Or vice versa.All three of those changes would have pvp in mind. Thus will hurt pve in ways. Though the nightblade change might be more damaging to players abilties to use their class in pvp. The other two really would their use for pve. That just how it is. The one that really would grind peoples gears would be the blocking change and for obvious reasons it would really hurt a tanks ability and peoples ability to survive a very big deal in pve content. I bet threads on threads would start up to complain or demand a revert. Only to get very upset and those threads closed. Its happened before so it will happen again if anything like this was to go live.

A player was right do not do what you have always done change for once. Doing what you have always done is not fixing it its not balancing anything. Its making it worse and only causing more people to get disgusted. Someone posted something like that in this thread and I do agree with it. Changing it over and over again isn't going to get you a different result it just will not happen. As someone will always find another way and the problems start all over again.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/507778/update-25-combat-adjustments#latest

Sadly this does more damage then good, you have to ask your self what is a pure PvP set vs a PvE and then deal with the fall out people using either one PvP set or PvE or both for builds your claim you don't want ZoS to destroy get destroyed!

ZoS hasn't done a good job in the past balancing class abilities, but so far my alts have been fun recently so they seem to be doing a good job now with Wrobel leaving coincidentally sadly, best of luck to him though and I hope he learned from his mistakes at this game to be a better designer. He is isn't the worst combat designer.... that goes to Tom Chilton who was busy rocking his warrior class over others lol.

Finally its the risk reward for gear that players must get to build with, it took me ages and hundreds of runs just get my set to be a proper healer, some of my pieces could be called PvP sets and be banned in PvE setting it would ruin me and all you would careless say is adapt to my suggestion forcing me to just quite the game because you the same kind of whiner who persecute.

Emmagoldman

One of the biggest issues with balance though is item sets. Pvp is so unbalanecd because someone always finds an item set that gives some great big advantage over their other players and other players start coping and over time to many use it they see the issues people demand nerfs on these sets they get nerfed down. Same principle with abilties if one is over performing in pvp. They nerf because the mob demands it because so many are copying someone else. The effects of mob rule need to be lessened don't listen to the mob rule find a balance.Sometimes its the majority mob sometimes its the minority either way Pvers get hurt. Their ability to do content gets hurt. Because they have to nerf the abilties or item sets down because of the pvp. Pvp and pve are not separate. To fix the issues they got to be separate In all things. So if something gets nerfed or ruined for pvp it doesn't ruin it for pve or vice versa.

I don't think that pvp is very unbalanced. There is a meta, which lets face it, there will always be a meta. Yet there is a LOT of variety on ways to fit your play style. The meta in pvp changes depending on either cp or no cp. There are also builds that perform very well in certain situations and fail in others along with classes that perform strongly against other classes. In no cp, you have the option of stacking hard stats with a resource set, proc sets which all but 1 has a visual que and the ability to counter, high resource builds, bleed and support. I'd argue there is a lot more variety then just copying a pve meta trial build that has been number crunched and min maxed for dps.

I don't even see how you would go about to determine what sets would be allocated to pvp and which allowed in pve. I'm not sure the pve community takes a moment to think how many pvpers pve to get gear. Without this, I think it would be hard to run a lot of the game's pve content. This narrative that it's a black and white, "us vs. them" is also ridiculous. Somehow there are people that don't like pvp and pve..... Yet this really seems to be the story in every mmo of the pvers that can't stand anything pvp in their safe space.

Psijic42

I completely disagree with this post. One of the features that I like the most about eso is there is a lot of diversity of choice in sets in PvP. Are there “meta” sets? Yes... kinda, but there is far far more than just one cookie cutter. Making items for PvP or PvE only would limit one of the central feature of the game: play as you want.

I’m sorry to sound rude but 9 times of out 10 these posts come across like pve carebears who die in a PvP fight because they’re new and get super frustrated. I get it. It’s really frustrating to not feel like the powerful mage warrior, but everyone wants to, and some people have figured it out. Study your play and get better, don’t limit other people’s creativity.

Now if you want to talk about nerfing the PvP tank meta then ya ok that’s a decent thread...

Alienoutlaw

the answer is very simple and i have been saying it for years, the ONLY way to balance PvE and PVP so they BOTH work is to separate them completely on two different servers, this would also reduce the load on the internal servers, it would allow a PvE version of Cyrodiil that many have been calling for. yes it may be a pain to decide to either log into PvP or PvE and have to log out to switch between the 2 but i honestly feel thats a small price to pay for true balance and improved server performance.

BeamsForDemacia

i can only speak for pve but im interested for which set u spent millions of Gold to get it and that is outdated now?

Thevampirenight

Psijic42 wrote: »

I completely disagree with this post. One of the features that I like the most about eso is there is a lot of diversity of choice in sets in PvP. Are there “meta” sets? Yes... kinda, but there is far far more than just one cookie cutter. Making items for PvP or PvE only would limit one of the central feature of the game: play as you want.

I’m sorry to sound rude but 9 times of out 10 these posts come across like pve carebears who die in a PvP fight because they’re new and get super frustrated. I get it. It’s really frustrating to not feel like the powerful mage warrior, but everyone wants to, and some people have figured it out. Study your play and get better, don’t limit other people’s creativity.

Now if you want to talk about nerfing the PvP tank meta then ya ok that’s a decent thread...

Well I'm the type of person that dies a lot in pvp if i do say battle grounds. I do sometimes try to keep alive or stick to a group but i'm not one of those players that is afraid of my characters dieing in a pvp match because why Respawn. Nor am I one that will ask for nerfs because something killed me because I'm causal enough that I'm garbage at pvp and meta and builds. But I'm satisfied if I can mange to get kills sometimes or assists or even points. I'm satisfied even getting second place win in battlegrounds because still get the exp daily rewards and rewards. I do at least try to get battle grounds team to second place if not first at times. Because first or second get the same reward might get more with first but getting second still get the reward for queuing.
If I have a couple of kills if lucky or zero kills some assists or have high score but zero kills and like 11 to 15 to 16 deaths you likely might be seeing someone like me. As I'm that type of player. The one that has maybe one or two set peices and just garbage gear being worn. Maybe better gear if I'm lucky to get ahold of it but I don't chase meta. Don't need to chase meta sometimes its just about having fun.
I do love to roleplay though but I've been detracted by other things lately. I'd Say I'm more roleplayer then Pver, or Pvper. But I have done all three in Eso.
This isn't about pve or pvp care bears its about the way things are done that tends to hurt one side or the other. Plus the constant trend every patch that just isn't helping.

iiYuki

idk wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Abilities are more difficult to balance. But a debuff of what they can do on players or separate form of damage for them when it comes to abilties would be something that can partly separate the two.

We already have this in PvP. It is called Battle Spirit Reduces all damage and healing done by 50%. Heck of a debuff

It would also help if some abilities interacted differently in PvP than PvE.
An old one I can think of is Crystal Frags use to stun on its instant-proc, an additional effect that was ok in some PvE situations but was whinged about because "OP plz n3rf", so it was removed.
Sorcerer shields were nerfed for PvP because gankblades cried they couldn't stun lock one shot them when they shield stacked, instead of stopping shields stacking, adding a cast time or having them capped in PvP ONLY they destroyed them in both, the only reason I have a shield now is for the magicka recovery.