I enjoyed the gold coast castles, shame we never got anything like them again :C

Wing

they were essentially thief / assassin dungeons.

large sprawling areas with NPC's wandering around and areas to hide and creep around.

I still go back to them on occasion to just trek through and steal / merc my way through them, and I thought that it was a bit of a shame that we never got any support like that again, at least having big things like expansions (that have all included some form of castle) have the castle space or some sort of engaging area that supports this kind of gameplay would have been nice. sneaking around the rimmen palace or the one in alinor would have been neat.

anyone else miss this gameplay, especially seeing as its such a staple of TES games.

phermitgb

I can't remember which one was the gold coast, but if you're talking about the thieves guild expansion, yes, I'd like to see those kinds of missions integrated with new content. I really enjoyed *some* stealth activities, the sneaking around a courtyard, infiltration-style stuff. Mind you, thieves guild was about the right size - by the time I was done with it, I was just about stealth-missioned out, but if every new zone could include one or two stealth/assassination mission style designs, it would very nicely break up the general monotony of the game for me.

rpa

Stealth is fun as long it is not timed mission with stealth detecting NPCs oooooozing sloooooowwwwly around in a maze.
Don't get me wrong, DB and Thieves guild are great DLC. But not perfect.

Taloros

Stealth gameplay is fun and adds a lot of suspense to the game. It should be used more.

Currently, there's little reason to use stealth in PvE, as it's faster (and gives more money and XP) to just kill everything. Even the stealth quests can be done faster by just running through them, then farm some money and pay the bounty accumulated.

One way to make stealth more useful would be to fix the overland difficulty. Imagine - just for argument's sake - if all mobs had ten times the hit points. Suddenly, all quest content would benefit from stealth.

A "hard core" or elite mode for overland zones would be one way to achieve that. Just copy all zones, increase mob HP by an arbitrary amount in the copy, all done.

For questing in Coldharbour, I gave my character stealth gear and tried to sneak through everything, or at least attack from stealth if combat was unavoidable. That was competely unnecessary, but very fun. Would be nice to have that as a "real" option for all content.

Ksariyu

I do very much agree that stealth feels hugely neglected overall in this game. Definitely seems like they only added it because ES fans would have rioted at such a staple mechanic of the series being removed, and not because they actually planned to incorporate it in any meaningful way.

Just imagine if dungeons and trials had flank routes, or if NBs had unique mechanics to benefit from sneak attacks.

SickleCider

I love having stealth as an option, but it needs to be balanced better. Making guards invincible is cheap, and always felt like artificial difficulty to me--people have strong characters, and instead of crafting a compelling challenge for them, they just lazily hand wave the option to fight away. The tedious-but-inevitable death that follows getting spotted is kind of insulting, and corpse walking your way through whole sections of a quest shouldn't be the optimal choice. I want the option to overcome obstacles, even if they're challenging. I'd also love the option to recover what was taken from me (stolen goods), even if it is, again, a challenge.

Once more, I'm not saying stealth shouldn't be implemented. I want to see it implemented, and I want to see it implemented better.

Ksariyu wrote: »

I do very much agree that stealth feels hugely neglected overall in this game. Definitely seems like they only added it because ES fans would have rioted at such a staple mechanic of the series being removed, and not because they actually planned to incorporate it in any meaningful way.

Just imagine if dungeons and trials had flank routes, or if NBs had unique mechanics to benefit from sneak attacks.

Also, all of this, and especially the bolded bit. Oh, to dream!

CassandraGemini

Ksariyu wrote: »

I do very much agree that stealth feels hugely neglected overall in this game. Definitely seems like they only added it because ES fans would have rioted at such a staple mechanic of the series being removed, and not because they actually planned to incorporate it in any meaningful way.

Just imagine if dungeons and trials had flank routes, or if NBs had unique mechanics to benefit from sneak attacks.

Have you actually played the content, the OP is talking about? Because yes, sure, what you mentioned is a thing, too, but it has nothing to do with the topic. The stealth missions for DB and Thieves Guild have unique gameplay mechanics in their own right, and I always found them to be immensely fun. I love this kind of stealth gameplay, sneaking through a place where you're not supposed to be, hiding from guards at the last possible second just to stab them in the back later, stealing stuff left, right and center all the while. It really is a bit of a shame that it was so limited to these two quest/skill lines, I would totally venture into some more castles or dungeons or whatever to empty people's pockets while trying to stay unnoticed.

Ksariyu

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

I do very much agree that stealth feels hugely neglected overall in this game. Definitely seems like they only added it because ES fans would have rioted at such a staple mechanic of the series being removed, and not because they actually planned to incorporate it in any meaningful way.

Just imagine if dungeons and trials had flank routes, or if NBs had unique mechanics to benefit from sneak attacks.

Have you actually played the content, the OP is talking about? Because yes, sure, what you mentioned is a thing, too, but it has nothing to do with the topic.

I did actually. That's where I got the first two-thirds of my post from. Both DB and TG were added after the fact as almost novelty quest lines and skill lines, meant to appease those who were upset that such iconic guilds from the main series were absent rather than bring them into the larger game as a whole. Everything from the sets, the skills, the implementation of Blade of Woe, etc. all were meant to work in the context of those zones and really not much else.

The OP's issue seems to be the lack of ways currently to effectively utilize an assassin/thief playstyle, something that you really can only do in the Gold Coast and, to some extent, Hew's Bane. However, had stealth been properly included in the game's main content (which is combat focused, sorry if you don't like that), then there likely wouldn't have been this complaint in the first place.

As a side note, Skyrim didn't really have specially designed stealth zones outside of the DB and TG questlines. Instead, they gave you a properly functioning system that could be used pretty much anywhere you could think to make it work. ESO by contrast has a very rigid stealth system that really only works well when it's specifically called for, thus requiring them to deliberately make dedicated "trespass" areas that anyone who isn't into sneaking will likely just avoid altogether. Not exactly flexible or efficient for long-term development.

CassandraGemini

Ksariyu wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

I do very much agree that stealth feels hugely neglected overall in this game. Definitely seems like they only added it because ES fans would have rioted at such a staple mechanic of the series being removed, and not because they actually planned to incorporate it in any meaningful way.

Just imagine if dungeons and trials had flank routes, or if NBs had unique mechanics to benefit from sneak attacks.

Have you actually played the content, the OP is talking about? Because yes, sure, what you mentioned is a thing, too, but it has nothing to do with the topic.

I did actually. That's where I got the first two-thirds of my post from. Both DB and TG were added after the fact as almost novelty quest lines and skill lines, meant to appease those who were upset that such iconic guilds from the main series were absent rather than bring them into the larger game as a whole. Everything from the sets, the skills, the implementation of Blade of Woe, etc. all were meant to work in the context of those zones and really not much else.

The OP's issue seems to be the lack of ways currently to effectively utilize an assassin/thief playstyle, something that you really can only do in the Gold Coast and, to some extent, Hew's Bane. However, had stealth been properly included in the game's main content (which is combat focused, sorry if you don't like that), then there likely wouldn't have been this complaint in the first place.

As a side note, Skyrim didn't really have specially designed stealth zones outside of the DB and TG questlines. Instead, they gave you a properly functioning system that could be used pretty much anywhere you could think to make it work. ESO by contrast has a very rigid stealth system that really only works well when it's specifically called for, thus requiring them to deliberately make dedicated "trespass" areas that anyone who isn't into sneaking will likely just avoid altogether. Not exactly flexible or efficient for long-term development.

I never said I didn't like combat focused gameplay, I mean, if I didn't I probably wouldn't be playing the game. I just think it's a bit of wasted potential to limit what they did for DB and TG to their specific zones. I know there are some very rare instances where stealth missions appear in other quests, too, I seem to remember one in Murkmire for example. But they're very few and far between. It would be nice to have more of them appear in side quests once in a while, because otherwise the only option we have to do content like this is to replay DB and TG over and over again.

You're right about Skyrim, though. Focusing on stealth was a viable build in itself, I would sneak around dungeons or caves all the time, sniping enemies from afar and usually killing them in one hit through the upgraded sneak abillity tree. Fun. Unfortunately this kind of gameplay is impossible in ESO for the most part (unless you want to count pvp ganking, but I don't know too much about that, since I don't pvp), so I have to admit I really relished the stealth missions, and I would, indeed, love it, if ZOS gave us some more of those, one way or the other.

SeaGtGruff

About the unkillable guards: Getting spotted by a guard isn't necessarily a guaranteed death sentence, because you might be able to get away. It does depend on the environment, though.

SickleCider

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

About the unkillable guards: Getting spotted by a guard isn't necessarily a guaranteed death sentence, because you might be able to get away. It does depend on the environment, though.

Yeah. The ones in overland don't bother me so much, because they don't chase you very far, and the game doesn't funnel you into tight quarters with them often. I managed to get away from a guard during one of the Thieves Guild quests exactly once. I kited him around furniture until he got confused and then I hid in a basket. There's certainly comedic value in that, at least.

max_only

I used to care about stealth gameplay too.

Then this community told me I was a milk drinking roleplayer whose opinions don’t matter.

TheShadowScout

I really enjoyed those questing stealth missions. I lived the sneaking around, and especially the secret passages in the castle...

And especialyl I enjoyed the sneaking without time limit!

Of course, I often try to do the same in some dwelves, sneak past enemies instead of fighting them, but... well, dvelves are usually not set up for that sort of thing.

And yes, I wish more locations in later regions too used such mechanics... I especialyl would adore it if you had several ways to get through something like that, one by fighting, one by sneaking... and one by finding and using the right disguise (bonus points if you would have to match "lie" dialouge options to your choosen disguise when questioned by a roaming guard!)

Sadly, most locations arte very linear. There is one "supposed" way to do them, and if you try something else... it tends to end badly.

Wing

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I really enjoyed those questing stealth missions. I lived the sneaking around, and especially the secret passages in the castle...

And especialyl I enjoyed the sneaking without time limit!

Of course, I often try to do the same in some dwelves, sneak past enemies instead of fighting them, but... well, dvelves are usually not set up for that sort of thing.

And yes, I wish more locations in later regions too used such mechanics... I especialyl would adore it if you had several ways to get through something like that, one by fighting, one by sneaking... and one by finding and using the right disguise (bonus points if you would have to match "lie" dialouge options to your choosen disguise when questioned by a roaming guard!)

Sadly, most locations arte very linear. There is one "supposed" way to do them, and if you try something else... it tends to end badly.

interestingly I was walking around Kvatch today (on my way to the castle) and decided to partake in a little recreational crime. as I was sneaking around it dawned on me just how much those locations were set up with crime in mind.

they are overloaded with NPC's doing all sorts of tasks and walking about, some you clearly have to wait and eliminate in an order, guards have multiple stops (especially around the church, so you really have to know the routes)

I admit to having to use a bounty reduction or two because I was just so unfamiliar with the amount of NPC's

I like anvil castle for ease of clear, as its more linear, but kvatch being built around the large interior space with multiple NPC's around and various rooms and corridors built of that space allows for a bit more interesting and emergent gameplay, though their is one guard in the first hall on the left that never moves, and there is just no way to get past, effectively blocking the kitchen unless you want a bounty.

I just feel like It would not be too hard to add more NPC's to areas like this and more locations like the castles.

also I never liked the thieves guild heist, that time limit was dumb, I only ever repeat the dark brotherhood assassination quests because no time limit, so your given more time to creep around and actually play stealthily.

Jaraal

Versispellis wrote: »

Making guards invincible is cheap, and always felt like artificial difficulty to me--people have strong characters, and instead of crafting a compelling challenge for them, they just lazily hand wave the option to fight away.

I disagree.

Guards are one of the few exciting encounters in the game, because it's something you can actually lose at. The game is so incredibly easy for solo characters, and the stuff that's actually challenging to solo (some world bosses, some vet dungeons) just take so long that it's boring to do. With guards, you're either going to win (escape) or lose (die) in a matter of seconds.

One of the things I miss about Everquest is the faction system. It was always exciting to go into zones where you knew virtually everybody hates you and wants to kill you. ESO is more like dragging cranky kids around Disneyland all day in the 100 degree heat for excitement.