Proc sets? good or bad

PapaWeeb

Everyone always sleeps on poisonous serpent. Probably the damage best proc set there is

ThePhantomThorn

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

one guy posted this report after a fight with a tanky player. as you can see almost 40% of his damage comes from the proc sets. you shouldnt hit anyone just because you have some gear on you. your abilities should kill people not your hat and trousers as for me

This logic is flawed. If you wear gear that has a proc then you sacrifice that over a set that simply adds damage. Basically that's doing the same thing.

oh really? you cant use two abilities simultaneously for example. proc sets increase your burst potential thats why people use them

and reduce your sustained damage. It’s a trade off.

Rianai

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

one guy posted this report after a fight with a tanky player. as you can see almost 40% of his damage comes from the proc sets. you shouldnt hit anyone just because you have some gear on you. your abilities should kill people not your hat and trousers as for me

This logic is flawed. If you wear gear that has a proc then you sacrifice that over a set that simply adds damage. Basically that's doing the same thing.

oh really? you cant use two abilities simultaneously for example. proc sets increase your burst potential thats why people use them

and reduce your sustained damage. It’s a trade off.

Proc sets can add sustained dmg too.

Stat sets are only useful if a player knows how to utilize his skills well, because the dmg they grant is generally rather small (~8-10%). The most op stat set won't carry a player who does not know how to properly use his skills. But procs usually only require a player to press a single button to get a significant amount of additional dmg for free. Procs offer much higher impact for much less effort and that's not really balanced - tho most likely intended as carry mechanic.

Also the more skills get nerfed the stronger proc sets become.

ThePhantomThorn

Rianai wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

one guy posted this report after a fight with a tanky player. as you can see almost 40% of his damage comes from the proc sets. you shouldnt hit anyone just because you have some gear on you. your abilities should kill people not your hat and trousers as for me

This logic is flawed. If you wear gear that has a proc then you sacrifice that over a set that simply adds damage. Basically that's doing the same thing.

oh really? you cant use two abilities simultaneously for example. proc sets increase your burst potential thats why people use them

and reduce your sustained damage. It’s a trade off.

Proc sets can add sustained dmg too.

Stat sets are only useful if a player knows how to utilize his skills well, because the dmg they grant is generally rather small (~8-10%). The most op stat set won't carry a player who does not know how to properly use his skills. But procs usually only require a player to press a single button to get a significant amount of additional dmg for free. Procs offer much higher impact for much less effort and that's not really balanced - tho most likely intended as carry mechanic.

Also the more skills get nerfed the stronger proc sets become.

ill give 2 proc sets.
sheer venom. deals x poison damage over 6 sec.
Caluurion's. deals x damage.
sheer venom adds sustained damage. but loses burst.
Caluurion's is pure burst.

now. if i were to run new moon and compare to Caluurion's, Caluurion's would have higher burst. but over the entire cooldown, nma would have higher sustained damage.
comparing nma to sheer venom sheer has more sustained damage and less burst.

some have burst some have dots. but the thing about proc sets is theyre usually a % chance. if your lucky, it procs. and always have a cooldown. skills dont. also theyre fun to theorycraft with.

Rianai

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

now. if i were to run new moon and compare to Caluurion's, Caluurion's would have higher burst. but over the entire cooldown, nma would have higher sustained damage.
comparing nma to sheer venom sheer has more sustained damage and less burst.

This is not true in general. NMA has the potential to pull ahead (slightly and with the downside of cost increase) in either burst or sustained dmg, but it is not guaranteed to be better. How much dmg a set like nma adds depends entirely on how much dmg you are capable of dealing without that set. If you have low burst and/or sustained dmg to begin with - because either the build or the player is bad - then the set will add very little and mentioned proc sets will pull far ahead for both burst and pressure.

The main advantage of nma over procs would be that it also buffs healing. But even this does not apply to all stat sets.

Xvorg

Rianai wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

now. if i were to run new moon and compare to Caluurion's, Caluurion's would have higher burst. but over the entire cooldown, nma would have higher sustained damage.
comparing nma to sheer venom sheer has more sustained damage and less burst.

This is not true in general. NMA has the potential to pull ahead (slightly and with the downside of cost increase) in either burst or sustained dmg, but it is not guaranteed to be better. How much dmg a set like nma adds depends entirely on how much dmg you are capable of dealing without that set. If you have low burst and/or sustained dmg to begin with - because either the build or the player is bad - then the set will add very little and mentioned proc sets will pull far ahead for both burst and pressure.

The main advantage of nma over procs would be that it also buffs healing. But even this does not apply to all stat sets.

In the same way, as least in PvP, most Proc sets are not such reliable sources of dmg.

For example, I can take 2 high dmg sets like Neri and Coldharbour's Favorite and do 0 dmg against a decent player since both have a 2 secs delay

Or the old combo, Neri + Winterborn... have you ever seen a Warden using that?

Emmagoldman

oxygen_thief wrote: »

one guy posted this report after a fight with a tanky player. as you can see almost 40% of his damage comes from the proc sets. you shouldnt hit anyone just because you have some gear on you. your abilities should kill people not your hat and trousers as for me

I generally agree but Zaans fails horribly against most experienced players as it require distance. Sloads can also be dodge rolled and has an obvious telegraph. So there is a trade off. It would always require a different build which offers a level of diversity which is healthy. For example, using fear around a zaan may be strong

Strider__Roshin

Bad. They only lower the skill ceiling.

ThePhantomThorn

tbh the main reasons why most proc sets are garbage is that they dont land.
you all remember widowmaker? it was part of the 1 shot procolypse. its useless now. why? so easy to dodge.
proc sets are FUN. undodgable is op. BUT rn its so easy to dodge its a dead set.
i see 2 solutions.
a - make then SUPER hard to dodge but reduce damage. (not what id go for)
b - make them a little harder to dodge. so instead of the 'after 1 second' maybe a .5 sec? would be a good thing to test next pts. if its op then no harm done right?
same with veli and selene and other proc sets with a delay.

and to everyone syaing they take no skill or they let you hit several hits at once.

no skill? as apposed to jab spam? dizzy spam? they add to a setup. dont automatically assume theyre being used as a potato build. eg, id like to use veli on my nb for extra burst. unfortunately it never hits. whats so unskillful about adding to burst? compare it to bloodspawn. no skill in that. same thing isnt it.

and several hits? they have a cooldown, and (most) have a % chance to proc. sometimes it will proc on burst. other times it will proc on defensive. not reliable. but good if. IF. they work.

Kartalin

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

ThePhantomThorn

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Xvorg

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

There are some proc sets that could be good, but the requirements for the proc require a lot of skill, and the effect is just meh.

Yes, I'm looking at you, Shock Master....

GRXRG

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Proc sets that give free damage are lame. Sets like Blood Spawn are more creatively designed, that's the type of concept we need more of. Not like viper or sloads.

i could argue that bloodspawn just gives free resistances and ult. same thing, just defensively oriented.

"Free resistance" on a 6% chance which is not a life safer like earthgore or troll king, and ult generation is really good but if you use your ult poorly you will die anyway.

Bloodspawn is one of the best defensive sets which doesn't carry the player, but instead give him the chance to react and use the proc smartly.

If you are with a friend and he runs earthgore you don't even care to break free in time sometimes because you know earthgore proc will save your a** by doing nothing, bloodspawn is far from that.

pieratsos

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.

"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked

Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.

Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.

pieratsos

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

ThePhantomThorn

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

care to give an example?
and theyre more fun than stacking wd

pieratsos wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.

"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked

Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.

Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.

so if i wear veli instead of bloodspwan i will be a better player? no? exactly.

and please tell me the proc sets that let you kill people in actual pvp by spamming light attack. and the proc sets with a 20k tooltop.

pieratsos

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

care to give an example?
and theyre more fun than stacking wd

pieratsos wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.

"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked

Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.

Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.

so if i wear veli instead of bloodspwan i will be a better player? no? exactly.

and please tell me the proc sets that let you kill people in actual pvp by spamming light attack. and the proc sets with a 20k tooltop.

Way to strawman everything I said. No, wearing veli instead of bloods pawn won't make u a better player. Dunno where u got that from. What I said is that if u are a bad player u will see much better results from wearing veli instead of lets say fury. And there is a reason why. One of them literally deals damage for you. And veli isn't even one of the most OP proc sets we ve seen while fury is one of the best weapon dmg sets.

20k proc from a light attack is a figure of speech to describe the concept of proc sets. Not a specific set. And no its not a hyperbole. Not from a proc conditions point of view nor from a tooltip point of view.

ThePhantomThorn

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

care to give an example?
and theyre more fun than stacking wd

pieratsos wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.

"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked

Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.

Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.

so if i wear veli instead of bloodspwan i will be a better player? no? exactly.

and please tell me the proc sets that let you kill people in actual pvp by spamming light attack. and the proc sets with a 20k tooltop.

Way to strawman everything I said. No, wearing veli instead of bloods pawn won't make u a better player. Dunno where u got that from. What I said is that if u are a bad player u will see much better results from wearing veli instead of lets say fury. And there is a reason why. One of them literally deals damage for you. And veli isn't even one of the most OP proc sets we ve seen while fury is one of the best weapon dmg sets.

20k proc from a light attack is a figure of speech to describe the concept of proc sets. Not a specific set. And no its not a hyperbole. Not from a proc conditions point of view nor from a tooltip point of view.

there is no set that does anywhare near that amount of damage so stop using it as an example.

Ragnarock41

PapaWeeb wrote: »

Everyone always sleeps on poisonous serpent. Probably the damage best proc set there is

Its mediocre. I think its a very fun set to use though, especially when you proc it back to back with a heroic weave, except they nerfed heroic now so RIP. I wish stamDK had a mechanic like this related to poison damage, I really really liked how this set worked , kind of like a pseudo-spammable but I don't run it due to its nature(too much focused on 1v1 , meta heavily favors very high weapon damage setups)

pieratsos

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

care to give an example?
and theyre more fun than stacking wd

pieratsos wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.

"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked

Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.

Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.

so if i wear veli instead of bloodspwan i will be a better player? no? exactly.

and please tell me the proc sets that let you kill people in actual pvp by spamming light attack. and the proc sets with a 20k tooltop.

Way to strawman everything I said. No, wearing veli instead of bloods pawn won't make u a better player. Dunno where u got that from. What I said is that if u are a bad player u will see much better results from wearing veli instead of lets say fury. And there is a reason why. One of them literally deals damage for you. And veli isn't even one of the most OP proc sets we ve seen while fury is one of the best weapon dmg sets.

20k proc from a light attack is a figure of speech to describe the concept of proc sets. Not a specific set. And no its not a hyperbole. Not from a proc conditions point of view nor from a tooltip point of view.

there is no set that does anywhare near that amount of damage so stop using it as an example.

And u completely missed the point again. Nicely done. When u want to actually address the point I made we can discuss.

WreckfulAbandon

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.

Canned_Apples

A lot of them are complete garbage, and are strictly for "fun" builds.

The only viable ones are Velidreth, Zaan, Skoria (sort-of,) and (no-cp) Auroran's Thunder+Overwhelming Surge.

I'm not counting defensive sets. Technically Seventh and Fury could be labeled as "proc sets" too.

xylena

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.

Would you accept death recaps with Skoria hitting harder than its wearer's Ferocious Leap ulti, or Caluurion hitting harder than its wearer's Soul Harvest ulti?

The problem with many proc sets is not their damage, but their trivial proc conditions, like the aforementioned Skoria and Caluurion. Curse of Doylemish can reach near a 20k tooltip IIRC, but nobody uses it because it's too hard to proc reliably.

Also, it helps to be clear that you're talking about "damage proc sets" not just "proc sets" so to avoid pointless comparisons between Bloodspawn and Velidreth.

Canned_Apples

oh, right... Caluurion. Forgot that one.

ThePhantomThorn

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.

Canned_Apples wrote: »

A lot of them are complete garbage, and are strictly for "fun" builds.

The only viable ones are Velidreth, Zaan, Skoria (sort-of,) and (no-cp) Auroran's Thunder+Overwhelming Surge.

I'm not counting defensive sets. Technically Seventh and Fury could be labeled as "proc sets" too.

exactly
on my nb in nocp i run viper sloads valkyn. hits good damage, but really sucks against anyone with good hots. hence why sucks in cp. mostly its really fun to play.

Xvorg

pieratsos wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.

"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked

Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.

Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.

Don't you proc a set by... let's say... playing the game?

I mean if you want to proc a set like... let's say, affliction, don't you have to use... uhmm, dmg skills?

What about a set like... Livewire. Don't you have to receive... dmg in such a way the proc actually works? And to do so, don't you have to use, hmmm, a defensive playing style that endures damage done, such as healing or blocking?

I mean, I don't know any proc set that does something just by slotting it, except maybe Necropotence.

pieratsos

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.

Nice strawman right there. Its almost like a trend when it comes to proc sets and those who defend them. Because you cant actually debunk the fact that they are horribly designed and skilless, you all resort to arguments like "show me a video of competent dying to just procs". lol

pieratsos

Xvorg wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.

"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked

Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.

Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.

Don't you proc a set by... let's say... playing the game?

I mean if you want to proc a set like... let's say, affliction, don't you have to use... uhmm, dmg skills?

What about a set like... Livewire. Don't you have to receive... dmg in such a way the proc actually works? And to do so, don't you have to use, hmmm, a defensive playing style that endures damage done, such as healing or blocking?

I mean, I don't know any proc set that does something just by slotting it, except maybe Necropotence.

Did you miss the part where i talked about proc sets doing dmg specifically and not those giving you stat bonuses. I mean, that was exactly my point, go back and read again.

ThePhantomThorn

pieratsos wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Bloodspawn isn't free damage though. It gives you some defense and a bit of ultimate so that you can tune your build accordingly. It's not just "light attack to win". We need to stop empowering people who have no idea wtf they're doing in pvp. Proc sets, siege, forward camps, buffing light attacks -- you're not a better player the game was just made easier for you.

exactly. free defence and ult.
and who said proc sets are for noobs. theyre fun to theory craft with. im just asking for them to be more viable. not be able to 'light attack to win'

Ult is useless if you don't know how to utilize ur ults. Free resistances are useless if u don't know how to defend.

A 20k tooltip that doesn't give a damn about how bad u are and u can't keep ur buffs up and procs by light attacking is not useless no matter how bad the player is and perfectly describes the concept "light attack to win".

They are not fun. They are just horribly designed and promote unhealthy and skilless gameplay.

Show me a video of a competent player dying to procs only with no other sources of damage and you might have an argument there.

Nice strawman right there. Its almost like a trend when it comes to proc sets and those who defend them. Because you cant actually debunk the fact that they are horribly designed and skilless, you all resort to arguments like "show me a video of competent dying to just procs". lol

its because people dont die to just procs.
people might have a proc on their recap, but they will also have a few spammables la ect. using a proc set with a build is like using hundings to increase skill damage. they both increase damage delt. in different ways.
you cant just kill with procs, or with the light attack spam like you suggested. it takes combos or sustained pressure WITH proc sets.

ThePhantomThorn

pieratsos wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Proc sets are fine as long as the numbers behind them are balanced.

"Letting your gear kill for you" literally describes every build in the game unless you run around naked

Nop, not even close. A set giving u weapon dmg or ult still requires you to actually play the game, perform ur combos etc. It gives you stats but it still requires you to utilize those stats correctly to be efficient, it still requires to L2P.

Procs however are a different story. No need to L2P. A bad player puts them on and his performance is astronomically improving. Just light attack and let the gear apply pressure and burst people for you. So yeah, letting ur gear kill for you is a prety good description for proc sets.

Don't you proc a set by... let's say... playing the game?

I mean if you want to proc a set like... let's say, affliction, don't you have to use... uhmm, dmg skills?

What about a set like... Livewire. Don't you have to receive... dmg in such a way the proc actually works? And to do so, don't you have to use, hmmm, a defensive playing style that endures damage done, such as healing or blocking?

I mean, I don't know any proc set that does something just by slotting it, except maybe Necropotence.

Did you miss the part where i talked about proc sets doing dmg specifically and not those giving you stat bonuses. I mean, that was exactly my point, go back and read again.

and please. they were making a passing statement. dont make a big deal that someone forgot a minor detail from earlier in the thread