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Failure of ES:Legends raises my eyebrows

maboleth
maboleth
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I never expected this game to die, not so soon at least. If ESL died, imagine what could (easily) happen to Fallout 76 or even ESO in not so distant future...

I really hope Bethesda/ZOS guys will get back to themselves. In last couple of years it's mostly been failures - from a failure to restrict paying/free mods for Skyrim, failure of Fallout 76, backlash of ES:Blades fans due to pay chests, to closing of ES:Legends... I feel this could affect ESO somehow. Or is affecting as of now. Maybe the budget, staff, whatever. But they don't seem to be the company that just releases great but buggy games with endless budget anymore...
  • Rex-Umbra
    Rex-Umbra
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    No its just you.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • JPS
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    maboleth wrote: »
    But they don't seem to be the company that just releases great but buggy games with endless budget anymore...

    Instead they are the company that releases budget games with endless bugs :D
  • CaptainVenom
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    ES: Legends was doomed to failure the moment it was born... let's be realistic on this. I really doubt something like that would happen to ESO tho'... there are a LOT of people playing and possibly purchasing crowns, so...
    🌈 Ride with Pride 🌈Magicka/Damage Necromancer - PC - NA - DC
  • essi2
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    Legends was competing in a massively over-saturated market, Valve stopped working on Artefact for similar reasons.


    ESO is well established in a not as over-saturated market as it used to be and is most likely fine for now.

    FO76 created it's own market -_-
    "The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar

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  • jircris11
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    maboleth wrote: »
    I never expected this game to die, not so soon at least. If ESL died, imagine what could (easily) happen to Fallout 76 or even ESO in not so distant future...

    I really hope Bethesda/ZOS guys will get back to themselves. In last couple of years it's mostly been failures - from a failure to restrict paying/free mods for Skyrim, failure of Fallout 76, backlash of ES:Blades fans due to pay chests, to closing of ES:Legends... I feel this could affect ESO somehow. Or is affecting as of now. Maybe the budget, staff, whatever. But they don't seem to be the company that just releases great but buggy games with endless budget anymore...

    Issue with esl is the fact it's a card game, they had to compete with mtg and hs,. So it's not surprising it fell, even gwent stopped servicing consoles.
    IGN: Ki'rah
    Khajiit/Vampire
    DC/AD faction/NA server.
    RPer
  • CaptainVenom
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    essi2 wrote: »
    ESO is well established in a not as over-saturated market as it used to be and is most likely fine for now.

    Also it can be said for sure that ESO is the best MMORPG available right now. Great customization and character creation; almost infinite build possibilites; content for both casual and hardcore players; a colossal world ready to be explored with an awesome lore and lots of things to do.
    Edited by CaptainVenom on December 9, 2019 12:29PM
    🌈 Ride with Pride 🌈Magicka/Damage Necromancer - PC - NA - DC
  • gepe87
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    It's a pity. ES Legends gave us awesome card art and some lore.

    ESO may be at bad state now, but it would be around here for 3/4 years.
    Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General

    If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language
  • tsaescishoeshiner
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    It's not a failure or even dead? Legends went a whole year in the past with no new content and survived, even tho the free card pack they gave people feels like a final goodbye : p

    Legends managed to stay around for years in a really competitive market, was a lot of fun, and had a dedicated content creator base. It's still an active game with a good player base. It's unfortunate a lot of people are disheartened by the bad news, especially when we got good content and sets this year (imo, coold have been better of course).

    The sense of doom people took from the content hold announcement is worse for the game than the actual content hold imo
    PC-NA
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
  • Ackadian
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    Awww man...I just heard the news today,I really liked that game :/ Used to play it on both my phone and my PC. Such a good card game. Whatever came over the devs to take that decision?
  • kojou
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    I was never interested in Legends, so i can't speak to that. I don't think the news is in any way relevant to ESO though.

    I assume the amount of revenue they were getting from it wasn't enough to keep the "bean counters" interested so they reduced their costs by essentially de-funding the development of it.

    If ESO hits the same threshold I am sure they will do the same, but we would likely have already heard if they were going to do it this year. Also, why bother sending out a customer satisfaction survey if the plan is to can ESO?
    Edited by kojou on December 9, 2019 2:53PM
    Playing since beta...
  • MartiniDaniels
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    CDPR reported that they stop supporting Gwent on consoles:
    https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/12/04/gwent-console-version-support-ps4-xbox-one-witcher-card-game-offline

    Valve's Artifact is dead too.

    So it's more about genre then ES:L "failure".
  • Nestor
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    For the Record, Legends is not really dead in the sense that you can't play it. It is no longer being updated. When they pull the plug on the servers then it is dead.

    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • maboleth
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    ES: Legends was doomed to failure the moment it was born... let's be realistic on this. I really doubt something like that would happen to ESO tho'... there are a LOT of people playing and possibly purchasing crowns, so...

    Of course, I'm not comparing these two games. But what worries me are the set of failures from the company that was once given free to do anything they wanted (in a good way!). Pete Hines really did try to push ESL, he seemed really proud of it feeling genuinely enthusiastic. I wonder if all Beth flops could affect ESO in any way (negatively).

    For the record, their merchandise, at least for Europe downgraded too. I don't want to spam this thread, but past tees and merch I bought used to be of much higher quality and long lasting than now...
  • Wing
    Wing
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    I enjoyed legends, as I tend to prefer a brand I understand (TES)

    I think the biggest problem with it was changes to set itself apart made it have a higher skill gap.

    there were so many niche and cheesy deck strats that often it was luck, and you could not really focus on one thing you liked.

    two lane was complicated especially in PvE (I know right, hard PvE?!) because PvE often had a gimmick lane specific to the encounter, so the first game was always a loss after a point because the encounter was designed around a gimmick deck with a unique field effect that synergized with it. so you just lost and then came back with a counter to the cheese.

    (yeah, imagine someone making up a field and not telling you the rules, then picked a perfect deck for it, and then said lets play)

    the "runes" system to help players behind just made the game worse, as players would just stack the field to 1HKO you so they did not have to deal with a possible comeback.

    so you had one player with with no cards maybe playing one card a turn, and another with two stacked fields smashing anything you set and then just sitting till they had enough damage to 1HKO you.

    sure its fun when you do it, but it sucked when it happened back.

    and then because its a niche game in the genre, the only people that play it are the ones good at it, so fat chance of new players coming in and retaining them.

    really sad to hear its in lights on mode, but I understand why.
    ESO player since beta.
    full time subscriber.
    PC NA
    ( ^_^ )

    You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -Xenogears
    DK one trick
  • Nemesis7884
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    Bethesda tried to cash in on their two cash cow franchises...problem is they were so incopetent about it that most projects seem to fail miserably
  • Linaleah
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    ES: Legends was doomed to failure the moment it was born... let's be realistic on this. I really doubt something like that would happen to ESO tho'... there are a LOT of people playing and possibly purchasing crowns, so...

    this. its a card game that came into a market already taken.

    some people are surprised at failure of heroes of the storm, but... its the same idea. Legends came out when there was almost no market space left for card games... I'm actualy surprised it lasted as long as it has.
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • Ohtimbar
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    It was a late to the party cash grab. The windows phone of ccg.
    forever stuck in combat
  • Rave the Histborn
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    maboleth wrote: »
    I never expected this game to die, not so soon at least. If ESL died, imagine what could (easily) happen to Fallout 76 or even ESO in not so distant future...

    I really hope Bethesda/ZOS guys will get back to themselves. In last couple of years it's mostly been failures - from a failure to restrict paying/free mods for Skyrim, failure of Fallout 76, backlash of ES:Blades fans due to pay chests, to closing of ES:Legends... I feel this could affect ESO somehow. Or is affecting as of now. Maybe the budget, staff, whatever. But they don't seem to be the company that just releases great but buggy games with endless budget anymore...

    Legends was never a serious game nor was it meant to be. It was a way to sell digi card packs to suckers for real money. They made all the money they could and that was the intent. Digital. Ard games arent meant to have long life spans unless they are already physically established TCGs.

    I can't ever see Fallout 76 going under though. Too much money to be made for a game that they didn't even need to include NPCs in.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    maboleth wrote: »
    I never expected this game to die, not so soon at least. If ESL died, imagine what could (easily) happen to Fallout 76 or even ESO in not so distant future...

    Not sure what Yet Another Card Game trying to compete with Hearthstone in a super-crowded market, has to do with the longevity of FO76 or ESO, honestly.


    edit: there's a lot of churn in f2p/mobile/cardgames. I'm honestly more surprised at people being surprised that Legends is fading away. And trying to find some Great Significance in it. It's just some f2p card game.
    Edited by Kiralyn2000 on December 9, 2019 4:53PM
  • chrightt
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    You’re comparing apples to oranges. I played ES:L to legends rank and honestly speaking the power creep in the end really was quite steep. I lost interest in the game mostly because the tri-faction decks only served to add more inconsistency to the game. Ultimately, I felt like ES:L was only an average card game. On the other hand, ESO is a mmorpg and quite an unique one at that. Most people who play ES:L most likely don’t play ESO and vice versa. It is normal for any business to introduce multiple products. It is also unrealistic to believe all products will succeed.
  • Araneae6537
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    I agree with those saying ESO and Legends really aren’t related. EVERYTHING is made into a card game and has been for some time now, no? I can’t imagine most will last long. I still have my SW:CCG cards. :sunglasses: Only other I’ve played since is MTG and I never got into online versions as I confess I enjoyed actually collecting the cards.

    Anyway, sorry for those of you who enjoyed Legends that it’s not continuing, but I’m glad nothing crazy was done like trying to combine ESO and Legends (seriously, I saw someone suggest this) as that sounds like a way to ruin two totally different games for most people.
  • TheRealPotoroo
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    maboleth wrote: »
    I never expected this game to die, not so soon at least. If ESL died, imagine what could (easily) happen to Fallout 76 or even ESO in not so distant future...

    I really hope Bethesda/ZOS guys will get back to themselves. In last couple of years it's mostly been failures - from a failure to restrict paying/free mods for Skyrim, failure of Fallout 76, backlash of ES:Blades fans due to pay chests, to closing of ES:Legends... I feel this could affect ESO somehow. Or is affecting as of now. Maybe the budget, staff, whatever. But they don't seem to be the company that just releases great but buggy games with endless budget anymore...

    Bethesda's contempt for ES:L and its player base is such that there's not even an announcement about this on the Bethesda web site, just on Reddit. I'm just disgusted and gutted right now.
    PC NA, PC EU

    "Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_6850523
  • ZarkingFrued
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    You can't be serious. Card games are hit and miss. Most people who actively play ESO have no interest in a card game, busy playing eso. so there goes the bulk of your market.
  • Araneae6537
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    And doesn’t ES:L have it’s own forum? 🤔
  • TheRealPotoroo
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    And doesn’t ES:L have it’s own forum? 🤔

    It does but Bethesda never use it.
    PC NA, PC EU

    "Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_6850523
  • DaveMoeDee
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    maboleth wrote: »
    I never expected this game to die, not so soon at least. If ESL died, imagine what could (easily) happen to Fallout 76 or even ESO in not so distant future...

    I really hope Bethesda/ZOS guys will get back to themselves. In last couple of years it's mostly been failures - from a failure to restrict paying/free mods for Skyrim, failure of Fallout 76, backlash of ES:Blades fans due to pay chests, to closing of ES:Legends... I feel this could affect ESO somehow. Or is affecting as of now. Maybe the budget, staff, whatever. But they don't seem to be the company that just releases great but buggy games with endless budget anymore...

    Legends was never a serious game nor was it meant to be. It was a way to sell digi card packs to suckers for real money. They made all the money they could and that was the intent. Digital. Ard games arent meant to have long life spans unless they are already physically established TCGs.

    I can't ever see Fallout 76 going under though. Too much money to be made for a game that they didn't even need to include NPCs in.

    Nonsense about not being serious. Pete Hines loves CCGs and was serious about Legends. One of Legends problems might have been not being aggressive enough in monetization, which was likely due to developer deficiencies. The bottom line is that the game seemed to have development issues and moving to a new dev/client led to a disastrous period with no new content and non-stop bugs.

    Well, get ready for the monetization. Legends is not at all dead. The original Legends is going into maintenance mode to eventually die. At the same time, a brand new Asian client/backend is being launched by a Chinese developer with far more aggressive mobile-style f2p monetization model. It is using the exact same cards and rules. The new client can easily be made available in the West too as they will be releasing old content over time that already has internationalization taken care of.
  • dcam86b14_ESO
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    The ESL player base is making it worse for any foreseeable future.

    Anyway ESO isn't going anywhere, it's one of the only western MMOs with a decent player base.
  • Wing
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    the intent. Digital. Ard games arent meant to have long life spans unless they are already physically established TCGs.

    I can't ever see Fallout 76 going under though. Too much money to be made for a game that they didn't even need to include NPCs in.

    mmm, I liked (and still do like) fallout 76.

    if you liked the ( ~ Explore ~ Loot ~ Stash ~ Explore ~ ) circle of fallout 4 then you would have / will enjoy 76.

    its major problems just stem from development time, clearly. everything could have been fixed with more time. its clear that the idea and development of it started during FO4, and then after 4 rapped up instead of diverting that team to work on 76 they passed right over it and went straight to starfield.

    the biggest thing about it was that it was a tech demo for an engine overhaul to support multiple players (originally the engine was designed around the player and everything in the world revolved around the singular point of the player, if you tried to just drop in a second player it would not even boot because it was not designed to handle that. so they had to rebuild it)

    I think had 76 launched for like $20-$30 with no faff of deluxe editions or that kind of BS, or like free if you had fallout 4 or something, with clear communication that it was going to be buggy and something they were trying. . .well yeah.

    but whatever, they hurt their brand, they might learn from it, they might not.
    ESO player since beta.
    full time subscriber.
    PC NA
    ( ^_^ )

    You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -Xenogears
    DK one trick
  • Araneae6537
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    And doesn’t ES:L have it’s own forum? 🤔

    It does but Bethesda never use it.

    But for talking about the game and it’s fallout with other players — I just don’t get why people keep posting about an unrelated game in the ESO forum. Sure, it was based on the same lore, but a card game has nothing to do with an MMORPG. Honestly, what other studios are doing with their MMORPG’s is probably more relevant to most of us.
    Edited by Araneae6537 on December 9, 2019 6:24PM
  • Goregrinder
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    It was never going to compete with the OG: Magic The Gathering. And the market is definitely saturated with everyone trying to cash in on the "TCG 2.0" craze.
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