Should purge or cleanse ritual remove effects that doesn't deal direct damage to the health bar?

phoenixkungfu

No and no I disagree. This game play change would be aimed at power of the light, curse even if these moves was purge or cleanse off, that would be ok. The counter play is status effects. The main one being major defile. You could keep a player defile without defile being removed. Therefore making major defile counter play on par with healing.

xWarbrain

The answer to your original questions is yes, they should remove effects that don't deal direct damage to the health bar.

What is your next nerf suggestion?

Xvorg

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

No and no I disagree. This game play change would be aimed at power of the light, curse even if these moves was purge or cleanse off, that would be ok. The counter play is status effects. The main one being major defile. You could keep a player defile without defile being removed. Therefore making major defile counter play on par with healing.

Why?

Why are you trying to fix what's not broken? Explain.

Harmful effect is smething that harms you, even if doesn't do dmg. Purge must exist in this game. Take away purges? Then take away all those sets people have been farming for years.

Do you want a game in which the dominant player is the one that puts more siege weapons?

As a DK (especifically a mDK) I completely disagree with your childishly straightforward view of the game. In some other post you said anyone should play as s/he wants, but in the end you want us all to play the way YOU want. And that cannot be.

I highly recomend you to drop mSorc for a couple of months and try magplar, mDK, stamDK and especially stamSorc, which should be the very first spec you think before doing any "suggestion". Then we could talk about balance.

danara

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

No and no I disagree. This game play change would be aimed at power of the light, curse even if these moves was purge or cleanse off, that would be ok. The counter play is status effects. The main one being major defile. You could keep a player defile without defile being removed. Therefore making major defile counter play on par with healing.

if you think spamming cleanse/purge is easy then you should try it out you could be surprise...

Remove the cleanse effect on status that doesnt do damage is just broken, so how do you clean yourself from (or others, bacause yes dedicated healers exist) :
- Major Defile > if you think that you can heal with an effect that divide your healing done by 42% when your healing done il already reduce by 50% because you are in pvp ... change game
- Power of the light > can deal a stupid amount of damage in cp
- Sorc Execute
- Slow > in a game where placement is every thing especially in pvp, you want to keep up slow on you ? :') like your movement speed reduce from 70% ? or even the the root from the wall of ice?
- what about the necros colossus > Wanna take 30% more damage for 8 sec ? Because YES MAJOR VULN DOESNT DO DAMAGE IN ITSELF

What you ask for is like a child caprice, you have to see deeper, what are the other side affected?

Ok so now, we cant do what you ask about purge, what about implementing a "fatigue" effect (increase cost of purge when cast repeatdly)? yes we didnt speak about PVE, but healers on vHoF would love to have a talk with you if this happend 1 day

phoenixkungfu

I want to start by saying this is pvp gameplay adjustments and in no shape or form affect pve. In fact with the changes I am asking for heal will be fun and more interactive in pve.

And on topic what is mostly the concern of most templar mains. It's a simple counter, you ask to consider a templar point of veiw. Well I challenge a templar main to do the same. Imagine the hard work of landing a off balance, getting a uncontrollable disease minor defile the list goes on, just to get 1 button beat all cleanse ritual. The counter play is completely 1 sided in favor of a user of purge or cleanse ritual. If you can't see how no matter the situation. THERE IS NO COUNTER PLAY TO purge or cleanse ritual. then I say your bias. I challenge you to remove your bias and name 1 counter gameplay that is unique and direct to counter cleanse. The answer is there is no counter play. This is the issue. No matter the effect no matter the situation purge or cleanse ritual wins the situation. THERE NEEDS TO BE COUNTER PLAY or situations where cleanse doesn't remove effects . ANY OTHER SOLUTION IS BIAS. THIS IS A FACT.

danara

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I want to start by saying this is pvp gameplay adjustments and in no shape or form affect pve. In fact with the changes I am asking for heal will be fun and more interactive in pve.

And on topic what is mostly the concern of most templar mains. It's a simple counter, you ask to consider a templar point of veiw. Well I challenge a templar main to do the same. Imagine the hard work of landing a off balance, getting a uncontrollable disease minor defile the list goes on, just to get 1 button beat all cleanse ritual. The counter play is completely 1 sided in favor of a user of purge or cleanse ritual. If you can't see how no matter the situation. THERE IS NO COUNTER PLAY TO purge or cleanse ritual. then I say your bias. I challenge you to remove your bias and name 1 counter gameplay that is unique and direct to counter cleanse. The answer is there is no counter play. This is the issue. No matter the effect no matter the situation purge or cleanse ritual wins the situation. THERE NEEDS TO BE COUNTER PLAY or situations where cleanse doesn't remove effects . ANY OTHER SOLUTION IS BIAS. THIS IS A FACT.

Ok so lets get back to the first solution : you seriously think that you are capable of running with

any debuff that doesnt do damage at the same time? Minor + Major Vuln (+38% damage taken), Minor + Major Breach and Fracture (+20% damage taken aproximatly if i remember well, not sure about that), Major defile (+42% healing reduction on you), and im not even speaking about Power of The light, or Sorc Execute?

You cant seriously think that what you are proposing is THE solution? Right? the game will become "the first who hit win", this is stupid as F

Qbiken

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I want to start by saying this is pvp gameplay adjustments and in no shape or form affect pve. In fact with the changes I am asking for heal will be fun and more interactive in pve.

And on topic what is mostly the concern of most templar mains. It's a simple counter, you ask to consider a templar point of veiw. Well I challenge a templar main to do the same. Imagine the hard work of landing a off balance, getting a uncontrollable disease minor defile the list goes on, just to get 1 button beat all cleanse ritual. The counter play is completely 1 sided in favor of a user of purge or cleanse ritual. If you can't see how no matter the situation. THERE IS NO COUNTER PLAY TO purge or cleanse ritual. then I say your bias. I challenge you to remove your bias and name 1 counter gameplay that is unique and direct to counter cleanse. The answer is there is no counter play. This is the issue. No matter the effect no matter the situation purge or cleanse ritual wins the situation. THERE NEEDS TO BE COUNTER PLAY or situations where cleanse doesn't remove effects . ANY OTHER SOLUTION IS BIAS. THIS IS A FACT.

Your suggestions are heavily biased from a magsorc perspective, and we don´t need to have counter vs something that is already a counter vs other things (or otherwise we´ll be stuck in an endless loop of demanding counters for counters for counters.......)

You also severely underestimate how easy it is to stack negative effects on players, without even wasting a single digit of resource doing so. Depending on what class/setup you run, a single light attack can apply more negative effects than a single extended ritual cast can cleanse, and god forbid if more than 1 person decided to light attack that templar.

A quick example that isn´t too unrealistic:

* Magsorc with inferno staff on frontar with 2x DoT + Stamcost increase poison on frontbar
* Magsorc is also using twilight matriarch and elemental drain

Elemental Drain = 0 cost and applies 2 negative effects (major breach and minor magickasteal)

The ranged attack from twilight matriach has a chance to apply 2 negative effects (minor vulnerability through the concussion status effect and Hamstrung, which is a snare that any pet AI can apply)

The light attack can apply:
- 2 DoT´s from the poison
- Status effect from the poison damage dealt by the alchemical poisons
- Stamcost increase poison

Together we get 8 negative effects without even wasting a single digit of resource. However, if I as a templar want to remove these effects from me, I´ll have to spend roughly 8-9,7k magicka. My advice to you is to try out other classes before going on a spree calling for nerfs like you´ve done the last few days/week since you got to the forums.

Edit: Forgot to add siphoner if you play in CP, so make that 9 negative effects.

phoenixkungfu

Other classes play though effects. What make templar mains different. Purge or cleanse is simply doing to much. There needs to be counter play. I'm not a developer but i believe my suggestions is amazing. However no matter what is the future THERE NEEDS TO BE COUNTER PLAY TO CLEANSE RITUAL AND PURGE. THIS IS A FACT

danara

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Other classes play though effects. What make templar mains different. Purge or cleanse is simply doing to much. There needs to be counter play. I'm not a developer but i believe my suggestions is amazing. However no matter what is the future THERE NEEDS TO BE COUNTER PLAY TO CLEANSE RITUAL AND PURGE. THIS IS A FACT

In why is it the best solution? Because you are just saying it is the best and i dont understand how you can seriously say that, that, so please give me fact like @Qbiken did it for you because i simply dont get your point

Xvorg

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Other classes play though effects. What make templar mains different. Purge or cleanse is simply doing to much. There needs to be counter play. I'm not a developer but i believe my suggestions is amazing. However no matter what is the future THERE NEEDS TO BE COUNTER PLAY TO CLEANSE RITUAL AND PURGE. THIS IS A FACT

No, when I'm full of effects I run towards the nearest templar. If there's no templar around it's more likely I die.

Sanguinor2

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I want to start by saying this is pvp gameplay adjustments and in no shape or form affect pve. In fact with the changes I am asking for heal will be fun and more interactive in pve.

And on topic what is mostly the concern of most templar mains. It's a simple counter, you ask to consider a templar point of veiw. Well I challenge a templar main to do the same. Imagine the hard work of landing a off balance, getting a uncontrollable disease minor defile the list goes on, just to get 1 button beat all cleanse ritual. The counter play is completely 1 sided in favor of a user of purge or cleanse ritual. If you can't see how no matter the situation. THERE IS NO COUNTER PLAY TO purge or cleanse ritual. then I say your bias. I challenge you to remove your bias and name 1 counter gameplay that is unique and direct to counter cleanse. The answer is there is no counter play. This is the issue. No matter the effect no matter the situation purge or cleanse ritual wins the situation. THERE NEEDS TO BE COUNTER PLAY or situations where cleanse doesn't remove effects . ANY OTHER SOLUTION IS BIAS. THIS IS A FACT.

Then we Need to do the same for every ability. Gonna look Forward to your unbiased Suggestion for a "unique direct" counter to streak, cant counter the stun, cant stop the dash, cant stop the absorb of BoL Morph.

Question for you to think About btw: If cleansing is so overpowered, how come nearly no mag char Plays purge in pvp? Cost is barely higher and it removes 3 effects from you and your whole Group.

Also thinking that pvp Adjustments dont affect pve is naive at best. I for one am not gonna look Forward to not being able to cleanse the like 70% healing debuff of some dlc dungeon bosses or the vulnerability during lokke storm Phase. Or several snares or the defile from saint llothis, well you should get the idea by now.