The Blackwood Chapter and Update 30 are now available for testing on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/

Can we make pets untargetable now?

  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Langeston wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »

    Literally everything about that sentence is true. Unless/until they get killed or unsummoned, your pets can & will auto attack people half way across the BG and/or shield you from attack, with zero input from you.

    That argument is flawed to begin with. You could also say you summon your shades and they can & will auto attack people with zero imput from you until they unsummon.

    Yes, you need to recast them every 20secs but what you don't have to do is to keep them alive via shields and heals, which is what I'd call investment. And if you want to make good use of the scamp, you need to spend mag again for it's AoE/ stun.

    Do you now get what I mean? How you set off the meatshield vs the 2 bar slots aspect is up for debate.

    So why is spending mag for resummoning some kind of investment while spending mag for keeping the pets alive isn't?

    No, it's not flawed — you just skipped over the "indefinitely" part.

    My main was a stamblade (now a magblade) and my first alt was a pet Sorc, so I've dealt with both. Sorc pet upkeep is just easier. (If it wasn't, I suspect you wouldn't be complaining about the thought of having them work like Shade.)

    Here's the thing though: no one complains about shades — not Nightblades, and not the people that have to play against them. So why is it that Shade work for NBs without any problem, but implemening something similar with other pets is all of the sudden a horrific idea that will ruin the other classes?

    I was in a BG against a team of 4 pet sorcs — so at any given time that was 8 pets, & if they ult-dumped that number jumps to 12. You couldn't hit the players because of their menagerie, but they could frag the sh*t out of you just fine from behind it. I'm sorry, but that's just f'ing insane.

    Yay pet teams can be annoying. We all know that. Just like every other competent pre-made.

    Why people don't complain about shades?
    You must have missed the threads about "hurr durr, NBs are too evasive via teleport" etc. Furthermore I haven't seen anyone using Dark Shades in PvP since forever, mainly because Shadow Image is much more useful. Which happens to be an utility skill that isn't designed to be 2-slot damage or healing/damage skill like the sorc ones. That isn't a good comparison to begin with.

    And no, I'm not against the thought of turning another sorc skill into the copy of a NB skill because the upkeep would be harder. I'm against it because it could turn out to be buff for pet magsorcs (in PvP) while being a collateral nerf for every other spec (as I said, the few stam sorcs and pet tanks, mostly in pve).
    If you can't kill the pet, it means you can't rob them their burst heal.
    If you can't kill the pet, it means constant Necropotence uptime.
    It means you cannot stun the pet or force the Sorc to resummon.
    It means more skill slots for sorcs to use.

    All this for a small price to pay. I could be wrong tho. The complains wouldn't stop anyway. Make of that what you wish.

    After all these years it seems like the devs intended them to be killable, just like Blastbones and the Bear. Which happens to be damage oriented.
    Plus it would leave a bitter taste in my mouth if they rip off NB skills again and slap them onto sorcs. As nice as Bound Armaments is, it just feels unoriginal.

    Just out of curiosity. Would you mind Shades becoming targetable or would you think it's a nerf?
    In addition: if they become targetable, would you think it's a buff if they required two slots but be buffed as compensation?
    If you feel like any of that would be a nerf, why shouldn't it be a buff the other way around for sorcs?
  • xylena
    xylena
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Either no pets should be targetable, or all pets should be targetable. Combat pet mechanics are an arbitrary mess, antithetical to the devs' stated goal of consistent ability behavior.

    Consistency is also the main issue with targetable pets. If you tab target the player and put your crosshairs on the player, it shouldn't still be a coin flip whether you hit the player or their pet, yet here we are.
    Retired until we break the Tank Meta
  • ThePhantomThorn
    ThePhantomThorn
    ✭✭✭✭
    so.
    pets....

    would u, in irl, use ur cat or dog as meat shield?
    no?

    done.
    players cant kill pets due to sentimental reasons.
    end.
    no other nonsense.

    i know that if someone killed my shade i would be devastated. thankfully, larry cant die :)


    so. pets untargetable.
    alsoooooooooooooooooooooooo...
    matriarch heal? umm.
    a little to high dont you think?
    because..
    they already have damage shields...
    dont exactly need more defence...

    :cookie::)

  • Langeston
    Langeston
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yay pet teams can be annoying. We all know that. Just like every other competent pre-made.
    Well, I don't think that tripling the number of available targets your opposing team has to contend with simply by pressing 2 buttons at the beginning of a match necessarily requires competence. And they don't even need to be part of a premade — any 4 random pet sorcs in a BG are sure to create a [snip] & I really feel like they detract from the fun.
    Why people don't complain about shades?
    You must have missed the threads about "hurr durr, NBs are too evasive via teleport" etc. Furthermore I haven't seen anyone using Dark Shades in PvP since forever, mainly because Shadow Image is much more useful. Which happens to be an utility skill that isn't designed to be 2-slot damage or healing/damage skill like the sorc ones. That isn't a good comparison to begin with.
    No, I've seen them. But the complaints were about the unique utility that Shadow Image provided, not the implementation of the Shade itself. The Shade is unassuming & doesn't get in the way while still doing it's job, regardless as to which morph you pick.

    As far as you not seeing anyone using Dark Shade, I think that's likely due to two reasons: a) you probably just haven't been paying attention, and/or b) they're a lot easier to miss unless their attacks show up in your death recap. (And if you're anything like me, your death recaps don't involve a whole lot of NBs anymore.) Sure they're not as common as Sorc pets, but NBs in general aren't as common as Sorcs, there's only one NB "pet" skill, the uptime of Shade is limited, and there aren't as many advantages to running it. Shadow image is a whole different ball of wax, that's why I limited my comment to Shade specifically. (I personally don't use either morph myself.)
    And no, I'm not against the thought of turning another sorc skill into the copy of a NB skill because the upkeep would be harder. I'm against it because it could turn out to be buff for pet magsorcs (in PvP) while being a collateral nerf for every other spec (as I said, the few stam sorcs and pet tanks, mostly in pve).
    If you can't kill the pet, it means you can't rob them their burst heal.
    If you can't kill the pet, it means constant Necropotence uptime.
    It means you cannot stun the pet or force the Sorc to resummon.
    It means more skill slots for sorcs to use.

    All this for a small price to pay. I could be wrong tho. The complains wouldn't stop anyway. Make of that what you wish.
    I wasn't asking for any Sorc skills to be turned into a copy of a NB skill (although if ZOS did do that it would likely be an improvement in every way if Bound Armaments is any indicator) I simply think it'd make sense to consider implementing one or two of the qualities that make Shade so much less controversial.

    And as I said before, I was merely spitballing. Obviously there are other variables to consider, & you bring up valid points. I just think that the net benefits of making pets untargetable make it worth at least considering.
    After all these years it seems like the devs intended them to be killable, just like Blastbones and the Bear. Which happens to be damage oriented.
    Plus it would leave a bitter taste in my mouth if they rip off NB skills again and slap them onto sorcs. As nice as Bound Armaments is, it just feels unoriginal.
    I don't dispute that that may be the case re: the devs thought process. I'm simply voicing my opinion that for the purposes of PVP (especially in BGs, and especially in the smaller maps) having pets just roaming about randomly attacking & blocking damage from enemies whose existence the sorc may or may not even be aware of is just kind of garbage.

    I have similar feelings about the amount of [strong] AOE abilities in the game — I feel like I'm accidentally killed more often than intentionally. If I get beaten, I'd prefer it was because I was outplayed — I rarely feel outplayed when I'm killed by 2 or 4 AOEs, just like I don't feel outplayed when there are 6-8 NPC targets floating around impeding my aim, but not the Sorc's.
    Just out of curiosity. Would you mind Shades becoming targetable or would you think it's a nerf?
    In addition: if they become targetable, would you think it's a buff if they required two slots but be buffed as compensation?
    If you feel like any of that would be a nerf, why shouldn't it be a buff the other way around for sorcs?
    I don't find the bear or blastbones to be as problematic as the Twilight. I haven't thought much about why, maybe the hit boxes are simply too large & they roam too far away from the Sorc? Hell, they often run interference for the other team. I can't tell you how many times my crosshairs are squarely on a green player, only to miss them because some random purple pet is slightly closer to me. I'm not talking about being in between us — my crosshairs are on the green player not the purple pet — the pet is just closer to me. So even though my aim is perfect, I miss my target. And if my target happens to be the purple Sorc, they're able to fire through their pet at me. I just think it's just incredibly flawed system all around.

    Maybe I'd feel a bit differently if it wasn't for the fact that literally every one of my abilities is single target, I don't know. (I doubt it though.)

    I think Shadow Image pretty much can't be targetable/killable, otherwise it would defeat the whole purpose of the skill — but if Dark Shade was targetable & didn't have to be cast every 20 seconds unless it was killed/dismissed, I think I would consider that to be a buff, tbh.

    In any case, this comment seems to be made in much better faith than your previous ones & I appreciate that. (The other ones seemed pretty combative.) I wish you would have led with it.
    Regards

    [edited for circumventing profanity filter]
    Edited by ZOS_RogerJ on November 29, 2019 5:31PM
  • katorga
    katorga
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mr_Walker wrote: »
    Mayrael wrote: »

    Pets are handicap for sorcs

    The petsorc zerg I ran across the other day in Cyrodiil obviously didn't get THAT memo!

    Any crappy build works in a zerg.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I'd happily twoshot the shade if that meant getting rid of the maim, robbing the NB of its teleport and Necropotence, and forcing him into re-summoning animation.

    The Twilight costs two skill slots and dies easily. Those are quite the drawbacks. You could use the slots for Accelerating Drain, a CC that allows for a Frag combo. The hated Fury execution. Crit Surge for constant healing and a freed potion slot for tripots or heroism pots. Hell, you could even slot Bound Armor for the 8% max mag which NBs, of course, get for free.

    I get that it's frustrating to struggle with aim. Guess what, I'm also frustrated when my Frag refuses to fire at the enemy right in front of me. When I can clearly see my enemy but a pebble counts as LoS and prevents my attacks. When a stam char keeps running around a corner or tree until Dawnbreaker is up. Or Onslaught. Yes, maybe the tree doesn't move, but with there being a LoS object every three steps in Cyro, it's equally annoying.

    The most reasonable solutions I can think of is to either fix the aiming mechanics in this game (not gonna happen) or shrink the Twilight's size. Would also help PvE.
    But mark my words, people would still complain. They always do. Arguing here is just a waste of time, really.
    =/
  • ThePhantomThorn
    ThePhantomThorn
    ✭✭✭✭
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    I'd happily twoshot the shade if that meant getting rid of the maim, robbing the NB of its teleport and Necropotence, and forcing him into re-summoning animation.

    The Twilight costs two skill slots and dies easily. Those are quite the drawbacks. You could use the slots for Accelerating Drain, a CC that allows for a Frag combo. The hated Fury execution. Crit Surge for constant healing and a freed potion slot for tripots or heroism pots. Hell, you could even slot Bound Armor for the 8% max mag which NBs, of course, get for free.

    I get that it's frustrating to struggle with aim. Guess what, I'm also frustrated when my Frag refuses to fire at the enemy right in front of me. When I can clearly see my enemy but a pebble counts as LoS and prevents my attacks. When a stam char keeps running around a corner or tree until Dawnbreaker is up. Or Onslaught. Yes, maybe the tree doesn't move, but with there being a LoS object every three steps in Cyro, it's equally annoying.

    The most reasonable solutions I can think of is to either fix the aiming mechanics in this game (not gonna happen) or shrink the Twilight's size. Would also help PvE.
    But mark my words, people would still complain. They always do. Arguing here is just a waste of time, really.
    =/
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    I'd happily twoshot the shade if that meant getting rid of the maim, robbing the NB of its teleport and Necropotence, and forcing him into re-summoning animation.

    The Twilight costs two skill slots and dies easily. Those are quite the drawbacks. You could use the slots for Accelerating Drain, a CC that allows for a Frag combo. The hated Fury execution. Crit Surge for constant healing and a freed potion slot for tripots or heroism pots. Hell, you could even slot Bound Armor for the 8% max mag which NBs, of course, get for free.

    I get that it's frustrating to struggle with aim. Guess what, I'm also frustrated when my Frag refuses to fire at the enemy right in front of me. When I can clearly see my enemy but a pebble counts as LoS and prevents my attacks. When a stam char keeps running around a corner or tree until Dawnbreaker is up. Or Onslaught. Yes, maybe the tree doesn't move, but with there being a LoS object every three steps in Cyro, it's equally annoying.

    The most reasonable solutions I can think of is to either fix the aiming mechanics in this game (not gonna happen) or shrink the Twilight's size. Would also help PvE.
    But mark my words, people would still complain. They always do. Arguing here is just a waste of time, really.
    =/

    You know what I hate?


    The sorcs who streak away to the other side of the map when engaged in melee combat.

    The sorcs who stack shield after shield and become immortal.

    The sorcs who spam frags. Relentless takes 5 la. Frags takes 1 mag skill.
    And you have a delayed bomb. And a delayed execute. And insane shields. And the best mobility. And the best burst heal.

    But you need a 1 way wall to follow you around aswell don’t you. Because sorc isn’t op enough already.


  • Dr_Ganknstein
    Dr_Ganknstein
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    UrbanMonk wrote: »
    No one yet mentioned Engine Gaurdian on a Zoo Sorc? Or did I miss something...

    You missed something. I mentioned engine guardian miles ago.
  • Langeston
    Langeston
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    I'd happily twoshot the shade if that meant getting rid of the maim, robbing the NB of its teleport and Necropotence, and forcing him into re-summoning animation.

    The Twilight costs two skill slots and dies easily. Those are quite the drawbacks. You could use the slots for Accelerating Drain, a CC that allows for a Frag combo. The hated Fury execution. Crit Surge for constant healing and a freed potion slot for tripots or heroism pots. Hell, you could even slot Bound Armor for the 8% max mag which NBs, of course, get for free.
    1. If they were that easy to disable, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. What skills (specifically) would you use to "2-shot" a Matriarch?
    2. If it was brought into line with Shade, it wouldn't take up 2 slots. (Healing would obviously have to be modified a bit, but that needs to happen across the board.)
    3. Isn't frag combo is still an option for you? It only requires 4 skills, no?
    4. Yes, Fury is cheesy AF too. What's your point though, that a ton of Sorc skills are autopilot easy-mode? I don't disagree, but I'm surprised you'd admit that.
    5. You can change potions on the fly, I don't understand.
    6. Please explain to me how "NBs, of course, get [8% mag] for free." (Spoiler: they don't.)
    I get that it's frustrating to struggle with aim. Guess what, I'm also frustrated when my Frag refuses to fire at the enemy right in front of me. When I can clearly see my enemy but a pebble counts as LoS and prevents my attacks. When a stam char keeps running around a corner or tree until Dawnbreaker is up. Or Onslaught. Yes, maybe the tree doesn't move, but with there being a LoS object every three steps in Cyro, it's equally annoying.
    1. I don't struggle with aim.
    2. Well they should fix frag then.
    3. "A pebble?"🙄
    4. So now you're complaining about other players using the environment in the exact way you are capable of doing???

    None of these are particularly compelling arguments.
    The most reasonable solutions I can think of is to either fix the aiming mechanics in this game (not gonna happen) or shrink the Twilight's size. Would also help PvE.
    But mark my words, people would still complain. They always do. Arguing here is just a waste of time, really.
    =/
    1. If that would solve the problem, great. However I don't think it would.
    2. Of course people will still find something to complain about.

    As I said earlier, no one complains about Shades — neither the nightblades using them, nor the players that have to deal with them. So why is the idea of making Sorc pets work a bit more like something as uncontroversial as Shade so terrifying for Sorcs? NBs are already pathetically weak compared to sorcs & taking away just a small fraction of the cheese available to your class is not going to change that. Does the entire sorc toolkit need to hold your hand in order for you to be happy with your class?
    Edited by Langeston on November 29, 2019 7:41AM
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    @Langeston

    Well, first of all, I am not using pets in PvP. I have thought about it, experimented, but the loss of a skill slot and the pet's mortality are dealbreakers. It looks good on paper, but in practicality, it often fails in critical situations.
    Which, btw, is why making it unkillable would be a buff in my book.

    NBs get the Magicka Flood passive. Sure, you have to slot a Siphoning ability, but that is really easy. No competent sorc slots Aegis, or has for years.

    Killing a pet is easy, just use a hard-hitting spammable. If sorc shields it, great, just keep at it. Hardened Ward is weaker on pets and the cost will eventually lose the sorc the fight.

    As for the rest of your post, uuuh, I'll leave that for now, as I have to go. Maybe I'll come back to that later. But, the last thing, "people always complain" - nope. People always complain about SORC. You'll see...
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Okay, eh, back for more. Busy day today, full of unexpected emergencies. (>.>)

    Anyways, Frag combo. Not reliably possible on petsorc. You only have room for Streak as your stun. And turning around 180 and landing your Frag takes too much time. Especially on console. Accelerating Drain, block-cancelled, is smoother. I think it's not a true combo, as in, breaking free and blocking IS possible before Frag impact, but with lag, reaction time and the awful "fear" animation, it is very reliable for an untrue combo. Also, it makes room for the BoL morph, which is really good for pure kiting.

    Fury is specialized. It's annoying as a kill stealer, but as an execution it's really weak. The animation is slow, damage weak and the threshold low. Unless you bake it into a combo with Curse, Meteor and Streak, it's probably more of a liability - if it doesn't proc, you're wasting damage.

    It's the sorcery buff. You can get it from potions and you want it up 100%. So spellcrit potion on cooldown. UNLESS you're running Surge for a nice constant heal and the buff. Then you can use other potions. You can swap potions, but you can't swap Surge in and out in combat. So you have to make that decision in your build. Tripots with their stamina allow me to use bistat food and pure max magicka glyphs. That gives me bigger shields than a Necropotence pet build.

    LoS in this game is wonky and sometimes the smallest objects (pebbles) will block your attacks like a wall. It's a bit better when jumping, as the game gives you a wider visibility degree mid-air. But that also incites the wrath of our merry forum dwellers here, you know?
    I guarantee you there are situations that influence your fight with questionable LoS. Stamina players in general have become masters at abusing that. And, well, with pets they get a taste of their own medicine. I would rather have pet and general LoS fixed. But since this isn't happening, I take a grim pleasure in seeing those players weep, who hug the next rock for hours when you so much as look at them. I feel sympathy for my ranged magicka brethren, though.

    So, uh, did I forget anything? Actually didn't want to invest that much effort on the forums here anymore... Sure worked out great! xD
  • MentalxHammer
    MentalxHammer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes please
  • Minyassa
    Minyassa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Isn't that the point of pets? They are portable mini-tanks, if they die you die, it's a race to try to kill your attacker before they take down your protection. They die, you can kill the petsorc immediately. Kinda like cracking the shell to get at the crabmeat.
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Minyassa wrote: »
    Isn't that the point of pets? They are portable mini-tanks, if they die you die, it's a race to try to kill your attacker before they take down your protection. They die, you can kill the petsorc immediately. Kinda like cracking the shell to get at the crabmeat.

    Mini-tanks don't cause you to unintentionally waste resources by attacking them, when you were actually attacking the sorc. I'd have no problem with pet targeting if it worked properly, but, like everything in this game, it doesn't. They actually break targeting, causing your attacks to hit them even if you weren't aiming anywhere close to them.

    Trying to line up a Poison Inject into a gap close? Poison Inject hits target, gap close hits pet.

    Trying to leap a guy literally in front of you? Leap hits some pet off to the side, or even behind you (literally have had this happen to me when duo'ing with a friend near some stairs, my character turned a full 180 degrees and leaped the guy my friend was fighting).

    Trying to nuke a guy on a magsorc at range? Curse hits target, execute hits random guy on the side, frags hits pet.

    Scroll up, and you can see two videos of similar things happening with players I had tabbed, but I promise you, this does happen without tab target, and it does happen with pets, in fact pets seem to be so much worse than players.
    Edited by jcm2606 on December 1, 2019 8:50AM
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since sorc defense is unsustainable, maybe buff in combat sustain for pet Sorcs.

    Not speaking about dark exchange which completely reset the fight against half good opponents when you use. It's literally a prison. You are forced to use it because if you don't run away you are OOM using the most expensive abilities.

    Since pets make ennemies loose sustain when fighting and most of all gain sustain for the sorc (no need to refresh the shield if you don't take the damage on it) You need to buff sorc sustain which is the worst in the game if pets become untargetable.

    Make scamp + matriarch/tourmentor untargetable and leave cleanfear (the tank pet useless in PvP) and atronach (a counterable ultimate that does both offense and defense) targetable.

    Give a regen passive bonus per untargetable pet to compensate the lost of sustain that actual pets allow you to gain.

    Make matriarch heal over 3s to not make it OP.
  • erio
    erio
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zabagad wrote: »
    To get the claimed "must be killable" issue together with fixing the LOS problem, I would guess a much smaller hitbox could fulfill both requirements? I assume making the hitbox smaller could be easier to implement for them, too?

    My ideal solution would be to make them smaller, and make the player take priority when aiming.
  • erio
    erio
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    erio wrote: »
    EmEm_Oh wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    it makes sorcerers untargetable.
    it's not fair gameplay
    the same goes for any pet that is targetable.

    Your shield blocks my sorc attack.

    Please lower it.

    Shield = supposed to block attack
    pet =/ supposed to block attack

    Really?

    I thought being attackable and dying while being a permanent 2 barspace toggle was part of pets intended design.

    Basically everyone playing the game disagrees with that design choice - but saying pets aren´t supposed to absorb attacks that are poorly aimed is just not true.
    We can safely assume it´s exactly what they´re supposed to do - considering this has been complained about for over 4 years now and it hasn´t been changed so far.

    Really?
    You thought the devs were like "oi lets give them a passive ability that does really good damage and absorbs multiple attacks so that any ranged enemy cant attack them easily and anyone up close has to put in extra work while the sorc can just easy mode and attack through them"
    Cmon no "2 barspace toggle" makes having 100% damage absorption acceptable
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Make matriarch heal over 3s to not make it OP.

    :D

    Serious or joking? That would be a buff for sorc. You would have to cast the heal less often, the heal would have more opportunities to proc sets, more oppurtunities to crit, and would make magsorc better than templar in the healing department (IMO its already the case, but that "nerf" would set it in stone).

    A burst heal is never as good as a strong HoT, and HoTs become better the more damage reduction you have passively and actively. Yet you would consider a strong HoT a debuff?

    Essentially you want a magicka vigor that would heal 3x as much as vigor restricted to one class, and that class would be one with good offensive capabilities and damage reduction and has power surge. Nice try.
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Kadoin wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Make matriarch heal over 3s to not make it OP.

    :D

    Serious or joking? That would be a buff for sorc. You would have to cast the heal less often, the heal would have more opportunities to proc sets, more oppurtunities to crit, and would make magsorc better than templar in the healing department (IMO its already the case, but that "nerf" would set it in stone).

    A burst heal is never as good as a strong HoT, and HoTs become better the more damage reduction you have passively and actively. Yet you would consider a strong HoT a debuff?

    Essentially you want a magicka vigor that would heal 3x as much as vigor restricted to one class, and that class would be one with good offensive capabilities and damage reduction and has power surge. Nice try.

    So u are saying that a reliable burst heal that can heal you pretty much to full health on demand is worse than a strong hot?
    Edited by pieratsos on December 3, 2019 9:47AM
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Kadoin wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Make matriarch heal over 3s to not make it OP.

    :D

    Serious or joking? That would be a buff for sorc. You would have to cast the heal less often, the heal would have more opportunities to proc sets, more oppurtunities to crit, and would make magsorc better than templar in the healing department (IMO its already the case, but that "nerf" would set it in stone).

    A burst heal is never as good as a strong HoT, and HoTs become better the more damage reduction you have passively and actively. Yet you would consider a strong HoT a debuff?

    Essentially you want a magicka vigor that would heal 3x as much as vigor restricted to one class, and that class would be one with good offensive capabilities and damage reduction and has power surge. Nice try.

    So u are saying that a reliable burst heal that can heal you pretty much to full health on demand is worse than a strong hot?

    Yes, because that on demand heal is useless when stunned, where an HoT isn't.

    Not to mention its extremely rare you ever need a large burst heal in place of HoTs IF you have enough damage reduction and damage avoidance in your gameplay. With shield stacking and Ball of Lightning, there is no way I could ever see such a thing balanced.

    Then there is multitarget and the question of whether or not such a HoT would and should stack. My answer? lol no.
  • NinchiTV
    NinchiTV
    ✭✭✭✭
    You really want the sorcs twilight to be not be target-able? Thats pretty much the only way to kill them. Kill pet, interrupt summon and ult combo them. You also want the little monkey guy not to be target-able? And just let him zap and stun you with no counter play...You would probably see more pet sorcs (and i mean FULL pet sorc with monkey included) if you were to do this. I'd rather see a healing reduce from twilight if anything (that heal...is..kinda insane I admit.)

    It would be interesting to see the sorc pets get treated like the neco, only have to put on one bar, you use the ability and it summons, and does its ability and despawns (twilight does burst heal, monkey does its stun plus the combined AOE dmg or make it a dot) OR give it the mender treatment and you have to resummon it every 1x secs (which would be hard on resources if they stayed the same cost)

    Or yall can get good and learn to finally beat a good sorc :p

  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    erio wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    erio wrote: »
    EmEm_Oh wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    it makes sorcerers untargetable.
    it's not fair gameplay
    the same goes for any pet that is targetable.

    Your shield blocks my sorc attack.

    Please lower it.

    Shield = supposed to block attack
    pet =/ supposed to block attack

    Really?

    I thought being attackable and dying while being a permanent 2 barspace toggle was part of pets intended design.

    Basically everyone playing the game disagrees with that design choice - but saying pets aren´t supposed to absorb attacks that are poorly aimed is just not true.
    We can safely assume it´s exactly what they´re supposed to do - considering this has been complained about for over 4 years now and it hasn´t been changed so far.

    Really?
    You thought the devs were like "oi lets give them a passive ability that does really good damage and absorbs multiple attacks so that any ranged enemy cant attack them easily and anyone up close has to put in extra work while the sorc can just easy mode and attack through them"
    Cmon no "2 barspace toggle" makes having 100% damage absorption acceptable

    It´s only a 100% dmg absorb when you´re not good enough to aim at the sorc.
    Also you still have to shield the pet costing you gcds anyway - without even having access to an UI element that tells you the pets HP or shield value.

    Also it has been complained about since few months after release. It´s literally been a topic in dueling in 2014.
    The devs know people do not like pet line of sight.
    Why do you think they´re keeping this mechanic that is disliked by virtually everyone playing the game if it´s not part of their current design intent for sorc pets?

    I´m not even playing sorc anymore this patch because the class is terrible. It´s worse than my magica DK and magica warden in open world solo gameplay.
    I absolutely hate pets as a sorc player because of how useless and clunky they are. For me from a sorc pvp perspective pets are 100% dead skills and i would love to see them reworked completely rather yesterday than now.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Zabagad
    Zabagad
    ✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Also it has been complained about since few months after release. It´s literally been a topic in dueling in 2014.
    The devs know people do not like pet line of sight.
    Why do you think they´re keeping this mechanic that is disliked by virtually everyone playing the game if it´s not part of their current design intent for sorc pets?
    With an argument like this you could easily justify "stuck in combat" too :)

    Edited by Zabagad on December 4, 2019 11:22AM
    PC EU (noCP AD)
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zabagad wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Also it has been complained about since few months after release. It´s literally been a topic in dueling in 2014.
    The devs know people do not like pet line of sight.
    Why do you think they´re keeping this mechanic that is disliked by virtually everyone playing the game if it´s not part of their current design intent for sorc pets?
    With an argument like this you could easily justify "stuck in combat" too :)

    Not really since we have word from the devs about this (stuck in combat) not being an intended state.

    Sorc pets have been worked on quite a bit - them being targetable permanent toggles has been stated as a core functionality at more than one occasion - with the last update on that making them immortal in grp pve but leaving their state for everything else as a design decision.
    Not saying that i don´t disagree with the devs stance on this. Just that comparing their current state and my take on it to a bug is a little far fetched.

    Edit: Again i wholeheartedly agree with the topics intention.
    I disagree with making false claims about the state of pets for the sake of the argument - bc in the end this discredits the whole idea of the topic when presenting it to the devs.
    Edited by Derra on December 4, 2019 11:43AM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • MentalxHammer
    MentalxHammer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    We just need a manual toggle option under gameplay that says, "Target Combat Pets." If you want to try to kill matriarchs and whatever else just keep it on, that way the rest of the player base can stop getting cheesed.
  • Langeston
    Langeston
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    We just need a manual toggle option under gameplay that says, "Target Combat Pets." If you want to try to kill matriarchs and whatever else just keep it on, that way the rest of the player base can stop getting cheesed.

    This is probably the most intelligent post in the thread.
  • RighteousBacon
    RighteousBacon
    ✭✭✭✭
    Kill the pet
  • Cathexis
    Cathexis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Langeston wrote: »
    We just need a manual toggle option under gameplay that says, "Target Combat Pets." If you want to try to kill matriarchs and whatever else just keep it on, that way the rest of the player base can stop getting cheesed.

    This is probably the most intelligent post in the thread.

    Yes but it unfortunately just disguises the answer "pets shouldn't be targetable" with "this way everybody wins"
    The Tomb of FPS Alteration Magic - Everything You Need to Know About FPS
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
    Praise Malacath.
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pauls wrote: »
    Pros: constant Necropotence 5th bonus, pets cant be stunned – dont need to care healing them, matriarch heal is always available – dont need resto staff
    Cons: cant hide between pets

    IMO overall it will be huge buff to petsorcs.

    Spot on. Decent players focus the Twilight first then take you out. OP is suggesting a huge buff without knowing it!!

    LOS is part of the game, pets take two slots still so there is compromise anyway. But If you want to make them immortal fill yer boots but it won't end well.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
Sign In or Register to comment.