Battle grounds, geared to the teeth, getting 1 shotted.

Klimarov

Hello every one.

I recently came back to the game, release was rough. So far enjoying it all however, have problems in pvp. Basically battle grounds are unplayable because i always get one shotted. I tried various builds. Latest one i run was on dragon knight, all legendary with heavy armor, built for as much as possible of defense, yet not a tank. So i was happy and lolly, rolling into a BG, first encounter, i face a tank, literally a tank, no one could kill the guy, he barely takes any damage. So he rolls up to me, and 1 shots. I have to mention that i have 25000 resists in battlegrounds buffed. how the hell is that even possible? this 1 shot gameplays should be stopped. that game is also too fast for constant stun locks. i see mages and DKs chain stunning people to death and that stamina that you enter bg without CP is not enough to break out of a stunlock.

like im completely puzzled, especially by tanks that 1 shot. Im not calling for trash balance like WoW has. but these things over the top should be nerfed. like if you're tank, you shouldnt be doing that much damage at all.

ChunkyCat

What exactly are you running?

Asking for a friend (who may, or may not, want to make fun of you.)

NBrookus

Define " one shot." Did you die to a burst combo, or a single ability?

I suspect that your definition of tank(y) is a PVE one. 25k resists means nothing if you get hit with Onslaught. PVP tanky is rolling HoTs, % based mitigation and damage avoidance.

VaranisArano

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you because there's just not enough detail to really guess what happened if you "always" get one-shot. That seems like a bigger problem than some of the known glitches like health desync. It'll help us advise on counterplay if you know what skill killed you.

In lieu of more details, and my apologies if this is more basic than you want, my usual advice is:
1. Check your crit resistances. If you aren't already wearing Impenetrable trait armor, grab some of that. Regular resistances are important, but crit resistance is arguably more so if you are getting burst down.
2. Be proactive about your self-healing/buffs. PVP combat tends to focus on either burst damage or pressure, and in both cases your opponent isn't going to let you catch your breath and heal the way PVE will. Ongoing, proactive heals will help you survive encounters and get back in the fight.
3. In general, most tanky builds can pump out a decent amount of burst damage if you give them an opening - especially with an ultimate. Try not to give them that opening, largely by making sure you always have enough resources so you can defend yourself. It won't help with getting a tank off your flag, but it will help with not getting pulled away from your team and killed.
4. If you do give them that opening, you've got to reset the fight ASAP. Block, dodge, and break free or whatever you need to do to get yourself out of that situation - this is where proactive healing and buffing will cover you during that evasive action. (If you play in Cyrodiil, think of it like surviving a gank attempt.) Once you've survived and recovered, then you can get back in the fight.

There are more specific counters that we can offer if you share more details either about your build or the enemies you struggle against, so again, apologies if the above is too generic to really help.

Klimarov

im running dragon knight with 25000 resists to both spell and physical. wearing heavy armor.

by 1 shot i literally meant 1 shot. templar runs up to me, casts 1 ability, it crits and i die. also mages with combo kills me like nothing.

since resists dont matter at all. where do i get traits for flat damage mitigation?

by tank i mean a dude with shield and sword, who i attack and barely knock off 5% of their hp, which he insta heals, and he 1 shots me in return

VaranisArano

Klimarov wrote: »

im running dragon knight with 25000 resists to both spell and physical. wearing heavy armor.

by 1 shot i literally meant 1 shot. templar runs up to me, casts 1 ability, it crits and i die. also mages with combo kills me like nothing.

since resists dont matter at all. where do i get traits for flat damage mitigation?

by tank i mean a dude with shield and sword, who i attack and barely knock off 5% of their hp, which he insta heals, and he 1 shots me in return

So your armor resists do matter, but your opponents can overcome or lower them in certain ways, like Onslaught (2h Ultimate) or penetration.

The other resist you MUST have is Critical Resistance. This reduces your damage taken from critical attacks, which only happen in PVP. In Battlegrounds, that means you need to wear Impenetrable traited gear. There are a few sets like Impregnable that grant it as well, but if you don't already wear Impen, start with wearing 7 Impen gear pieces.

ChunkyCat

bruh, what sets do you have equipped?

I’m asking more out of curiosity than a genuine desire to help. FYI.

MincVinyl

@Klimarov If you were able to show us footage, or a combat log of what happend we could help you more. 25k resists dont mean much in terms of tankiness for pvp. Most bg groups will get 10-15k pen, most solo players can use onslaught. Resists dont mean much is basically what im saying. Most people just get around 20-25k for the average solo player setup with nothing special.

Do you have
major evasion?
protection?
maim?
savagery?
3k impen?
how much hps?
defensive ult?
s&b block?

I am willing to bet you are not being truly 1 shot, you are probably just missing loads of other aspects of your build or playstyle to live through burst in pvp. As of right now the meta is still geared towards uncounterable dot/cc paired with your choice of aoe spam. Burst is nowhere close to what it could be, although a pvp veteran will still easily trash someone who has never played pvp before and it will seem like near 1 shot.

VaranisArano

When it comes to fighting tanks, I confess I'm more used to facing them as 1vXers in Cyrodiil.

Their general tactic is the same. They try to pull the opposing group apart into a series of 1v1s, then burst down the sucker they pulled away from the group. Too many times I watch Cyrodiil PUGs fall for Line of Sight tricks or get overconfident chasing the 1vXer only to get creamed once the 1vX player has them in a vulnerable spot.

If you don't have the damage to take on a tank on your own, the best thing you can do is stick to your group mates like glue. Do not try to face a tank alone. Tackle tanks as a group when you can all bring your DPS and CCs to bear. Don't let the tank pull you out of the group and ulti-dump you because now your team is a man down and left without your DPS.

The above goes for any player(s) you can't defeat, by the way. It may seem unsporting to avoid a fight you can't win, but Battlegrounds is a team sport and there's nothing wrong with sticking to your team.


(By the way, that instant healing you noticed? That's the proactive healing we mentioned. Experienced PVPers almost always have HOTs ticking before combat starts.)

Klimarov

MincVinyl wrote: »

@Klimarov If you were able to show us footage, or a combat log of what happend we could help you more. 25k resists dont mean much in terms of tankiness for pvp. Most bg groups will get 10-15k pen, most solo players can use onslaught. Resists dont mean much is basically what im saying. Most people just get around 20-25k for the average solo player setup with nothing special.

Do you have
major evasion?
protection?
maim?
savagery?
3k impen?
how much hps?
defensive ult?
s&b block?

I am willing to bet you are not being truly 1 shot, you are probably just missing loads of other aspects of your build or playstyle to live through burst in pvp. As of right now the meta is still geared towards uncounterable dot/cc paired with your choice of aoe spam. Burst is nowhere close to what it could be, although a pvp veteran will still easily trash someone who has never played pvp before and it will seem like near 1 shot.

out of what you listed i got only savagery, thought resists would do for damage reduction enough to at least not die in few shots

Iskiab

Resists are good but not enough for defense because of onslaught. You also haven’t said whether you’re a mag or stam DK and your build.

Tankiness in pvp comes from some passive defense, lots of self healing and blocking large damage attacks. It takes a while to get used to, but if you just wear heavy armour don’t expect to be tanky.

Klimarov

stam dk, rolling with dreugh king and ancient dragonguard sets. dont have impen yet because dont have transmutation gems to switch traits yet.

NBrookus

Klimarov wrote: »

stam dk, rolling with dreugh king and ancient dragonguard sets. dont have impen yet because dont have transmutation gems to switch traits yet.

Crit resist is hugely important. More important than either set you are wearing.

Rungar

welcome to eso pvp?

maybe you only saw one ability but im guessing you got hit with an ability, light attacks and maybe cresent/empowering sweep if he was sword and board.

you often dont see anything.

azjuwelz

You're looking at your death recap, yes?

What level are you? CP? What passives have you put skill points into? What skills are on your bar?


There's so much more to pvp than armor resistance. And sets are not the end-all either.

ChunkyCat

25k resists alone is pretty low for survivability in No CP, you have zero Crit resist, and your sets are garbage.

You’re in for a hard time.

Have you considered YouTubing for some DK PvP videos?

Taleof2Cities

As others have said, you'll need impen to survive, @Klimarov.

Player opinions vary ... but most suggest 2k+ of impen.

Ragnarock41

NBrookus wrote: »

Klimarov wrote: »

stam dk, rolling with dreugh king and ancient dragonguard sets. dont have impen yet because dont have transmutation gems to switch traits yet.

Crit resist is hugely important. More important than either set you are wearing.

Swap to impen gear, change DKS to a better set, and then reroll a stamden.

Juhasow

Klimarov wrote: »

stam dk, rolling with dreugh king and ancient dragonguard sets. dont have impen yet because dont have transmutation gems to switch traits yet.

Your setup is weak. Also why are You using dreugh king slayer ? Dont You have 2 handed weapon for major brutality or even motlen armanents ? Dreugh king is just waste of gear space. Fact You dont know that also suggest You dont know much more about the game and that suggest You will die a lot to people who knows how to play since most propably You're just standing there not knowing what to do when they're attacking You. Your deaths are L2P issue..

Idinuse

Klimarov wrote: »

Hello every one.

I recently came back to the game, release was rough. So far enjoying it all however, have problems in pvp. Basically battle grounds are unplayable because i always get one shotted. I tried various builds. Latest one i run was on dragon knight, all legendary with heavy armor, built for as much as possible of defense, yet not a tank. So i was happy and lolly, rolling into a BG, first encounter, i face a tank, literally a tank, no one could kill the guy, he barely takes any damage. So he rolls up to me, and 1 shots. I have to mention that i have 25000 resists in battlegrounds buffed. how the hell is that even possible? this 1 shot gameplays should be stopped. that game is also too fast for constant stun locks. i see mages and DKs chain stunning people to death and that stamina that you enter bg without CP is not enough to break out of a stunlock.

like im completely puzzled, especially by tanks that 1 shot. Im not calling for trash balance like WoW has. but these things over the top should be nerfed. like if you're tank, you shouldnt be doing that much damage at all.

Oh it's just the Elder Ninja Scrolls Online. No worries...

The legio is people taking 400 damage from my attacks (12K-14K) penetration while dishing out 4-7K damage with each skill on me (32K Spell and Phys resist, 3.1K Crit resist, 1-2 7K shields).

It's all skills and L2P... and the 14 possible sets they're wearing. Possibly 3-4 at a time... ^^b

Davadin

Klimarov wrote: »

im running dragon knight with 25000 resists to both spell and physical. wearing heavy armor.

by 1 shot i literally meant 1 shot. templar runs up to me, casts 1 ability, it crits and i die. also mages with combo kills me like nothing.

since resists dont matter at all. where do i get traits for flat damage mitigation?

by tank i mean a dude with shield and sword, who i attack and barely knock off 5% of their hp, which he insta heals, and he 1 shots me in return

Demra

Ok based on your explanation you're lacking a lot of pvp knowledge.
25k is very avarage and s&b doesn't make somebody a tank. You have to have high crit rsist, like at least 1.5k for bgs.

This is a very fast paced combat where you constantly need to block, dodge, heal and los. If you don't you will die right away regardless of how high your ressistence or hp are. Eso unlike most other mmos has a true skill based combat where players personal experience counts for everything. So expect to die a lot for a while until you'll get it.

I suggest watching some pvp educational videos on youtube and make a new character to play in under lv 50 battles for practice.

Edit: here i found this video on top and based on first 5 minutes seems to be pretty good. Good luck.
https://youtu.be/lpJaWqWre88

universal_wrath

Klimarov wrote: »

im running dragon knight with 25000 resists to both spell and physical. wearing heavy armor.

by 1 shot i literally meant 1 shot. templar runs up to me, casts 1 ability, it crits and i die. also mages with combo kills me like nothing.

since resists dont matter at all. where do i get traits for flat damage mitigation?

by tank i mean a dude with shield and sword, who i attack and barely knock off 5% of their hp, which he insta heals, and he 1 shots me in return

For someone to 1 shot you in pvp, it means you recieved a dmg of 15k atleast, which is the lowest hp you can get in no cp without slotting any points in hp or using hp glyphs. You must be naked for someone to deal 15k dmg to you. Hightest dmg I recieved on my stam sorc with 15k resists is 12k crit dmg from nightblade stealty onslaught. I have never been 1 shot on my stam sorc even with lower resistance than yours and I suspect lower hp as well, I only run 21k hp.

Goregrinder

Dude if you're rolling around with 0 Crit Resists, if someone sneezes they will blow you up. You need Impen on your gear....if your current gear does not have it, you should go buy or craft 2 other sets WITH impen.

You also want around 20k health even as a caster. Players comfortable with their builds will go lower on full DPS or gank builds, but the more health you have, the longer it takes to kill you. BUT that becomes meaningless if a heavy attack crit one shots you since you have no resistances against critical strikes.

What Tankiness in PVP means:

-Spell and Physical resistances
-Active or passive damage mitigation
-Active or passive healing over time
-Burts healing
-Ways to avoid damage completely
-Ways to escape a fight

All of those are important, ALL. I repeat....

ALLLLLLLLLL. Understand??

Ok, with that said, most builds cannot fit all of those things in, so you have to compromise and fit as many of those in, WHILE still keeping offensive stats that boost your own killing potential. WhatYOU are doing...is relying on the resistances ALONE to keep you alive, which will fail. Resistances help IF they are paired with other forms of survival. They MUST be paired, absolutely must be combed with other forms of survival. So if you are running into a fight without anything but your resistances, you will die.

But if you run into a fight and do these things you will be more "tanky", and MIGHT live long enough to kill someone:

-have crit resistance (3k in CP, as close to 2k in No-CP)
-Cast shield or armor abilities to increase your resistances, sometimes over cap.
-Cast shields or abilities that grant damage mitigation for X amount of seconds.
-Cast any Healing over time abilities you have (Vigor, Rapid Regen, Rally, etc.)
-Cast pots that can regen your health (Lingering, Tri Pots, etc.)
-Cast damage debuffs on your targets if you run them (will lower how much damage someone does to you)
-Cast your damn Cloak if you are a NB...if they can't see you, they probably can't do damage to you.

You do as many of these things as you can BEFORE you even run up to the guy you want to blow up. You have as many of these things going, THEN you run in Gung-*** like you're William Wallace trying to take back your land.

You want to be preemptively defensive, and reactively offensive. Not the opposite.

ketsparrowhawk

Klimarov wrote: »

stam dk, rolling with dreugh king and ancient dragonguard sets. dont have impen yet because dont have transmutation gems to switch traits yet.

There is your answer, friend. One good burst combo crit and that's an ez lights-out.

Also..

Klimarov wrote: »

...that stamina that you enter bg without CP is not enough to break out of a stunlock.

If that's the case, then you're not built for non-CP PvP. I recommend disabling all your champ points and get your build in a good spot without CP, then add CP on top of that well-rounded "base" build.

It's also possible that you're not outputting enough damage to pressure people off of you. So they're just coming at you full-force because they don't see you as a threat. Make sure you have some fangs or you'll get ripped apart no matter how tanky you are. Be aggressive..stun them before they stun you, etc.

Nerftheforums

Since you seem to have little clue, here's an easy build template for you to follow:
Bloodspawn, fury, ancient dragonguard/pariah/fortified brass/cyrodiil crest, your choice, they are all pretty good.
Snb front bar, 2h back bar. All impen. All tristat glyphs. Jewelry should be robust or triune or a mix of these with infused. Aim at 1k stamrec if you're a redguard, around 1.3k if you are not.
Snb bar: low lash, reverb/turn evil, igneous, vigor, cauterize, shield wall as an ult
2h: forward momentum, volatile armor, executioner, noxious breath, claw/meditate, onslaught as an ult.
You will see your survivability skyrocket.

JumpmanLane

ChunkyCat wrote: »

What exactly are you running?

Asking for a friend (who may, or may not, want to make fun of you.)

Ok. That’s funny hehehehe

JumpmanLane

Klimarov wrote: »

stam dk, rolling with dreugh king and ancient dragonguard sets. dont have impen yet because dont have transmutation gems to switch traits yet.

What you running divines? THAT’S why you got clipped. You need to get in a build.

The only tanks in PvP are trolls or dummies in an inexperienced ball group thinking they can run like its PvE or something.

I chased down this fool I don’t like running a troll tank build that actually started bagging the air before I dropped em. The dummy spends so much time running from me in Cyro they didn’t know what kind of damage I REALLY run.

The fool sat still this time. Thought that tanky troll build would work. Rezzed out QUICK. That fool KNOWS I tbag them EVERYTIME they hit the ground...but I digress lol.

validifyedneb18_ESO

while oblivion or generally heavy attack into block canceled finisher can be pullshit, I feel like the issue here is more likely you dont have enough health or dont roll enough.

Also off-bar-ing s/b is dumb.

JumpmanLane

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

while oblivion or generally heavy attack into block canceled finisher can be pullshit, I feel like the issue here is more likely you dont have enough health or dont roll enough.

Also off-bar-ing s/b is dumb.

What! Back baring SnB is ANYTHING but dumb vs people lmao. It’s a solid backbar in PvP.

WillhelmBlack

Ancient Dragonguard ain't that bad, use a different set with it like Impregnable in Sturdy or Impenetrable and get yourself Bloodspawn.

Spend more time in PvP and you'll start understanding what's going on.