Volatile Familiar vs Twilight Tormenter

Bobby_V_Rockit

So why does the familiar do half as much base damage and its special ability cost more to do less than the base damage of the twilight?

I hate the bird, annoying flappy bird wings, I counted 12 of them in trader hub of Elden Root yesterday. Not to mention that many things blocking the screen. Seems kinda dumb that its that much stronger. Does it scale off a different stat that I am missing or something?

MashmalloMan

I agree with the choice to make the Matriarch auto attack weaker than Tormentor, but by doing so it definitely makes you question why the Volitile Familiar is weaker..

As far as I'm aware, all sorc pet morphs do the same base auto attack damage, but the Tormentor does double, which was probably also done to synergize with the reverse execute activation of the ability. However, it's still weaker than just using a spammable in it's place, meaning people still just slot the Tormentor for more passive damage.

What they need to to fix this is equalize all the morphs auto attack damage including Tormentor and double the activation of Tormentor from 50% to 100% extra damage so people are required to use it to make it worth slotting..

Something you aren't considering is the Volitile Familiar costs as much as it does because it is considered AOE DOT damage. They just did a pass on all AOE DOTs, they mostly last 10seconds and cost around 1.6 times more than single target spammables with 1.5 times more damage.

So.. Volitile Familiar is much more costly than Tormentor because Tormentor is basically a single target dot.

From Dragonstone Patch Notes:

• Adjusted the standards from Damage over Time abilities to no longer deal approximately 2.5x the damage of a traditional “spammable” attack, such as Force Shock or Lava Whip, and now deal approximately 1.5x the damage over their duration. Specific changes will be listed in the skill line section.
  • Area of Effect Damage over Time abilities will now once again mirror the damage of their single target counterparts, instead of dealing approximately 33% less damage. To ensure they do not always beat out their single target counterpart, they will now cost approximately 66% more resources per second to maintain than their single target counterparts, up from 30%. Their standard durations have increased to 10 seconds from 8 seconds as well."

Spammables are usually around 2700 cost. Unstable costs 4500 which is almost exactly 1.66 times more cost.

Tormentor costs 3510, but lasts 15 seconds, not 10. If it lasted 10 seconds like most single target dots, it would cost 2340. This is a bit of a grey area since it's unique in its duration and function. Its activation doesn't gurantee more damage and it does damage without being activated. It also costs 2 ability slots.. Many things to consider that don't neatly fit within the dot ruleset.

MashmalloMan

I should add, although the 50% to 100% damage suggestion would somewhat fix the issue of no one using the activation of Tormentor, it would nerf the damage in the 0-50% HP range which highlights why no one likes the active ability anyway.

I would much rather prefer it replaced with something new, but speaking within the current context of the pet morphs, that is the first thing I would change.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I just wonder why anyone would slot familiar scamp over tormentor except for aesthetic reasons 🤷🏻‍♂️. Scamp doesnt do a whole lot and I thought its ‘zap’ should at least be similar as the tormentor’s zap. Unless the scamps base attack matches with the tormentors, it seems silly to me.

I understand the active ability variance, but why half the base damage?

blendertoes

There is a lot of misinformation here. The familiar and the twilight are direct damage, not damage over time. Both are buffed by Master at Arms CP. The familiar’s special ability is a pulse every two seconds and does not place a DOT on the target.

blendertoes

As to the OP’s question, it might be because the familiar pulse is AOE and can hit multiple targets and the twilight special ability is single target and only useful above 50% enemy health. I use both, but I do not activate the twilight.

tsaescishoeshiner

blendertoes wrote: »

There is a lot of misinformation here. The familiar and the twilight are direct damage, not damage over time. Both are buffed by Master at Arms CP. The familiar’s special ability is a pulse every two seconds and does not place a DOT on the target.

I don't think there is misinformation.

Even though the pets benefit from direct damage buffs,** they are balanced as DoT skills because you spend magicka once to deal damage every 2 seconds for x seconds. Even if the specifics are different, the function is the same

Edit: a word
Edit: ** there seems to be some disagreement here, but the point about balance stands

WrathOfInnos

blendertoes wrote: »

There is a lot of misinformation here. The familiar and the twilight are direct damage, not damage over time. Both are buffed by Master at Arms CP. The familiar’s special ability is a pulse every two seconds and does not place a DOT on the target.

The familiar’s active ability is an AoE DoT and is buffed by Thaumaturge.

blendertoes

I got a chance to test and I stand corrected. That’s what I get for reading and not testing, my bad.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Yeah, I was under the impression that their base damage also was affected by thaumaturge. I reduced it from 81 to 56 and pit those points into MaA and the tooltips for base attacks went down. Not just active, but base attacks, like the zap and kicks lost 100~ points of damage.

Edit: false, I must have been near someone providing a boost while I checked character sheet. MaA it is!

blendertoes

I tested the familiar and the twilight separately and found that Master at Arms affected the base attacks for both and the familiar pulse was affected by Thaumaturge. That was using Combat Metrics on a dummy, not the tool tips. Not sure how accurate tool tips are.