Anyone else feeling upset for our devs and the strain they must be under? (Positive post)

idk

Turelus wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

The devs just throw crap at the wall and see what sticks, then sometimes adjusts things based on our feedback. They hardly even play their own game.

Whilst not all of them play, nor play every day like many of us, there are a decent number of ZOS staff who play the game in various areas of play. This can normally be seen via their social media accounts or through chatting with them at events.

If roleplaying in Riften counts as doing content, I guess the devs have that down. We tell them all sorts of glitches and problems that have been going on for years and they're still blind to them because they don't do content that requires more than a few light attacks to see these problems. Either that or the more accurate option: They just don't care about our opinions unless we make as much of a fuss as possible, the revert on the 1-second shield cast time being a good example. Just look at the recent balancing. They tell us it's time for a haircut and we tell them that we're okay with a little off the top, and they respond by shaving us bald and cutting off one of our ears while telling us that it's for our own good. After all i've seen recently, I don't trust the devs anymore. I used to think their balancing was pretty hamfisted but somewhat reasonable, but now it's clear that they aren't sure what they're doing sometimes.

From what I've seen and spoke with them they play; Questing/Story, Dungeons, Trials, Cyrodiil, Battle Grounds, Housing.
That's all the content in the game. Rich Lambert for example occasionally tweets about his random group finder groups in vet dungeons. They've also spoke about a lunch group who do trials and dungeons together in the studio.

The "Dev's don't play" is just some BS line every game community throws out when most often it's not the case. They don't play as much as us, and maybe not all of them play. However it's a flat out lie to say ZOS doesn't have staff who actively play the game.

Just because they're bad at game balance, or fixing issues we want doesn't mean they don't play the game.

They do play the game, and we know it. Not sure why someone would say suggest they do not play the game.

Pretty sure Rich has many clears in vMA. However, none of them play at the highest level of the game and I would also venture that the lunch group has not cleared vet of all trials and dungeons. Even Gil would be out of touch as I do not think he has raided seriously since he started working for them.

Aurielle

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

wavingblue wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that anyone with a IQ above 84 understands that the vast majority of forum outrage is from Trolls that enjoy playing the forums more than they do the game.

I know people who buy the game when it's on sale for five bucks just to sock puppet negative threads they start. The game has issues but it's no better or worse than any other MMO.

The internet, where everyone is pissed off and nothing is real.

Outrageously wrong. Most of the people complaining are those with thousands of hours invested in the game who have watched the performance go to utter ***. I'm pretty sure everyone posting about those that have an IQ above 84 is full of themselves.

Performance is a YMMV situation, it has been shown time and again that many of the people crying about performance are playing on console with 2G wi-fi, also can you give any empirical evidence that the "Z0$ Suuuxxorz" crowd actually has thousands of hours invested? Because I have been playing since beta,attended every Quake Con the dev team has attended and have literally discussed this with a metric crap ton of actual players.

The people who have the most issues are console players on wi-fi, there is also a contingent that is pissed off because ESO isn't more Skyrim, (like the Angry Joe's Angry army) then we have your standard everything isn't free so I'm going to raise hell until it is squad.

The point is Zenimax knows what is real and what is BS, they have the only actual metrics, everything else is just guesswork, progress continues to be made on actual connectivity issues, but no matter what they do the tantrums on the forums will never stop.

I’m a console player on a hardwired fibre op connection, the best that I can get in my city, and ESO was regularly disconnecting/blue screening back when I still played. Not just for me, but for ENTIRE 12+ man groups in Cyrodiil at the exact same time. The people I used to play with tell me the problem has only gotten worse with the last two updates. You guys who try to insist that it’s our “connections” at fault are the absolute worst. Why am I able to play Battlefield for hours on end with 64 players packed into the same small area at the same time without disconnecting even once, when attempting the same thing in Cyrodiil with half as many players would result in multiple crashes? I’ll tell you why: this game is a poorly optimized mess, and you’re better off playing just about anything else if you care about stable PVP.

TheHsN

I am an Eso+ Player For 4 years. I think this is the biggest thanks and congratz to ZOS.

But sorry about the many issues that The Game Has.

-Many Bugs

-Performance issues are crazy...

-The balance between classes and races are awful. (one patch they do something and the next after it they take it back) And we suffer for months.
Now Sustain issues-

-BG finder is awful. You wait 10 min it starts that wait on the loading screen 10 min more and it throws you out to the map where you were. And if it starts you are mostly 3 players and lose the match.

-Cyrodil performance are known all over the world I guess.

Instead of fixing those up they are getting worst.. what do they expect us to say.

Daedric_NB_187

Nope. They deserve all the hate they get. If I performed made changes like these and communicated to my customers as poorly as they do, I would expect nothing less than to be blasted on. Hell I would expect to not have any employment anymore. I work in the IT/Cyber security field on government contracts. So I deal with the customer on a daily basis. My job would be terminated in a heartbeat and my reputation marred throughout the contracting world if my performance was equal to the people who run this game.

So again. No. I feel no sympathy for them what so ever. Get your *** together or get out of the way and let someone else fix what you can't. That's just grown up life ***.

Rain_Greyraven

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

Nope. They deserve all the hate they get. If I performed made changes like these and communicated to my customers as poorly as they do, I would expect nothing less than to be blasted on. Hell I would expect to not have any employment anymore. I work in the IT/Cyber security field on government contracts. So I deal with the customer on a daily basis. My job would be terminated in a heartbeat and my reputation marred throughout the contracting world if my performance was equal to the people who run this game.

So again. No. I feel no sympathy for them what so ever. Get your *** together or get out of the way and let someone else fix what you can't. That's just grown up life ***.

Hate....really? that has to be one of the most small minded and ignorant things Iv'e read all week.

Also I call BS, I have worked with General Dynamics, Boeing, and Halliburton....it's an old boy world of nepotism and payoffs.

There is huge room for screw ups, especially in the IT field, the vast majority of your time is more than likely spent hiding the fact that China hackers stole something else from you.

wavingblue

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

wavingblue wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that anyone with a IQ above 84 understands that the vast majority of forum outrage is from Trolls that enjoy playing the forums more than they do the game.

I know people who buy the game when it's on sale for five bucks just to sock puppet negative threads they start. The game has issues but it's no better or worse than any other MMO.

The internet, where everyone is pissed off and nothing is real.

Outrageously wrong. Most of the people complaining are those with thousands of hours invested in the game who have watched the performance go to utter ***. I'm pretty sure everyone posting about those that have an IQ above 84 is full of themselves.

Performance is a YMMV situation, it has been shown time and again that many of the people crying about performance are playing on console with 2G wi-fi, also can you give any empirical evidence that the "Z0$ Suuuxxorz" crowd actually has thousands of hours invested? Because I have been playing since beta,attended every Quake Con the dev team has attended and have literally discussed this with a metric crap ton of actual players.

The people who have the most issues are console players on wi-fi, there is also a contingent that is pissed off because ESO isn't more Skyrim, (like the Angry Joe's Angry army) then we have your standard everything isn't free so I'm going to raise hell until it is squad.

The point is Zenimax knows what is real and what is BS, they have the only actual metrics, everything else is just guesswork, progress continues to be made on actual connectivity issues, but no matter what they do the tantrums on the forums will never stop.

So... that's why this thread exists?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/477841/eu-server-performance-update-from-matt-firor/p1

So PC EU are console players on 2G wi-fi. PC, Personal Computer, EU.. Europe are console players upset. Are you saying no one is playing on that platform or are they outright lying about the massive amounts of downtime? Are you actually saying that the debacle that was multi-bidding release didn't happen and it was just console players on 2G not PC EU?

The numerous outages that led to the witches festival being extended a week including a Saturday patch with 4 hours downtime because EU was spiraling out of control and unplayable... those were just, console players masquerading as PC NA and PC EU players having problems.

PC and EU players having loads of problems aren't actually problems... just console players throwing tantrums.

Mettaricana

Hallothiel wrote: »

Rather than post here, why don’t those unhappy with things do a small bit of research & find out company contact details and use them to explain their discontent?

Because their contact department is just as bad as their dev marketing and customer service team.

Mitrenga

People gets fired for less. They are getting what they deserve. Game is great, we appreciate it really, but the servers have been a mess for a very long time. All they do is talk; "we will do this, we will do that"... yeah right.

jazsper77

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

Nope. They deserve all the hate they get. If I performed made changes like these and communicated to my customers as poorly as they do, I would expect nothing less than to be blasted on. Hell I would expect to not have any employment anymore. I work in the IT/Cyber security field on government contracts. So I deal with the customer on a daily basis. My job would be terminated in a heartbeat and my reputation marred throughout the contracting world if my performance was equal to the people who run this game.

So again. No. I feel no sympathy for them what so ever. Get your *** together or get out of the way and let someone else fix what you can't. That's just grown up life ***.

Hate....really? that has to be one of the most small minded and ignorant things Iv'e read all week.

Also I call BS, I have worked with General Dynamics, Boeing, and Halliburton....it's an old boy world of nepotism and payoffs.

There is huge room for screw ups, especially in the IT field, the vast majority of your time is more than likely spent hiding the fact that China hackers stole something else from you.

Sure you have

MJallday

Lets just be clear on the entire subject

Devs are not responsible for the direction of the game - they may have an input into the process, but the person responsible for that is an individual, or a committee - headed up by the game studio head. Any anger or discontent should not be pointed in the dev direction.

however, devs ARE responsible for the quality of code that they produce. whilst things should be caught in testing, invariably things do make it through. Good devs and standard development practce is that code developers test their own code before it goes into internal testing, or at the very least peer review. i dont believe these practices are happening, or if they are - they are focused in the wrong areas - OR it is happening in isolation. A third possibilty is that testing is an afterthought - OR that is is being done manually, rather than automated.

invariably , it is the support teams that get the brunt of anger , because they are customer facing.

most of the issues right now are with functionality, rather than direction - so it is with regret this is down to the devs.

the best solution to this is one or more of the following

1) employ more testers (however this wont solve the issue, just capture more - which negates the issue) - and widen the scope of testing - as well as the type of testing and the depth of testing cycle
2) introduce QA or development peer reviews of every piece of code release - as well as random retrospective spot checks
3) improve the quality of development staff through training, recruitment or redeployment
4) review release management proceedures -in order that old bugs do not make it "back"
5) work in agile or scrum teams rather than isolation
6) review the SDLC to ensure there are no gaps

Heatnix90

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

wavingblue wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that anyone with a IQ above 84 understands that the vast majority of forum outrage is from Trolls that enjoy playing the forums more than they do the game.

I know people who buy the game when it's on sale for five bucks just to sock puppet negative threads they start. The game has issues but it's no better or worse than any other MMO.

The internet, where everyone is pissed off and nothing is real.

Outrageously wrong. Most of the people complaining are those with thousands of hours invested in the game who have watched the performance go to utter ***. I'm pretty sure everyone posting about those that have an IQ above 84 is full of themselves.

Performance is a YMMV situation, it has been shown time and again that many of the people crying about performance are playing on console with 2G wi-fi, also can you give any empirical evidence that the "Z0$ Suuuxxorz" crowd actually has thousands of hours invested? Because I have been playing since beta,attended every Quake Con the dev team has attended and have literally discussed this with a metric crap ton of actual players.

The people who have the most issues are console players on wi-fi, there is also a contingent that is pissed off because ESO isn't more Skyrim, (like the Angry Joe's Angry army) then we have your standard everything isn't free so I'm going to raise hell until it is squad.

The point is Zenimax knows what is real and what is BS, they have the only actual metrics, everything else is just guesswork, progress continues to be made on actual connectivity issues, but no matter what they do the tantrums on the forums will never stop.

Delusional.txt

Let's just ignore the people who have high-end PCs, high-speed internet, and are still having issues because the the game itself is a poorly optimized POS that continues to get worse every patch, the fact that console has a majority of the issues is irrelevant because everyone is aware of this fact, and have been since the game launched on console back in 2015.

MJallday

also not withstanding the above, the entire support model that ZOS employs needs to be re-examined. Whilst there are good individuals, the system in place does not allow them to communicate effectively with the consumer base - and for the consumer base to effectively feed back.

JumpmanLane

First off I want the combat devs do a great job in the end. Their problem is when they are just tossing around ideas the put them out on the PTS with very little communication and the players go crazy.

Once things go live the players calm down. They should do a few more “combat direction” posts.

Gnortranermara

Yeah, so "devs" as an umbrella term is broad. Systems, zone builders, story, dialogue, voice, art team, and many others are doing phenomenal work.

The combat dev team has a serious problem, and (although this is somewhat speculative) the problem appears to be at the top. Ever since they put the PvP guy in charge of all combat everything from racial passives to DOTs to skill costs has been gorked. Even the "standardization" of skills (which I strongly support, since it sets the stage for some great new content like new weapon lines or even Spellcrafting) was incompetently bungled.

Dojohoda

wishlist14 wrote: »

I am feeling overwhelmed by the negative feedback on our forums to the point it's actually made me feel a bit flat in mood lately. I enjoyed Southern Elsweyr tbh. I loved the main questline and I enjoyed being driven to open up the furnishing achievements. I like to feel motivated to accomplish achievable tasks.
The npcs were fantastic, loved them all and it was great to reunite with some of the older ones too. I had a lot of laughs and giggles(no spoilers).
I was also in awe of the dragons, those amazing majestic creatures always grab my attention but my biggest treat was .....( spoiler so cant say as some have not yet played the dlc.) I also found the landscape stunning and it was very enjoyable to explore.

I must say that the storyline was very interesting and it kept me entertained. I want to take this time and space to thank our devs " Thank you for this beautiful and fun dlc and also for the extra week you gifted us for the event. I know it must be a very tough and trying time for all of you and I'm sure you are working extra hours to fix many of the issues our servers have been experiencing. I need you to know I love this game and i want you all to succeed so we can keep enjoying eso for many more years to come.


I hear so many complaints yet eso has some of the best story telling of any game i have played thus far. The housing system is better than anything that is out there. I love the realistic yet uniqueness of eso furnishings and housing. I think time is needed for our devs to get the servers working properly...I feel this is a process that is being worked on right now. I have to be honest and say that the combat system is weak atm and im not enjoying it...if i had a choice i would rewind the game but it is still not a deal breaker for me. I'm still here and i still have hope and faith in eso.....i am sure there are many players that want eso to flourish, to move onwards and upwards. I also want to add that i enjoyed the grapples more than i imagined i would 😅😃.

Thank you Zenimax team ❤

Thank you all for your responses.😊

People are not complaining about what you described in your post. People are rightly complaining about the game performance and about not being able to play at all.

That said, I agree it is a lovely game. Kudos to the teams in all of the different departments.

Rain_Greyraven

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Delusional.txt

Let's just ignore the people who have high-end PCs, high-speed internet, and are still having issues because the the game itself is a poorly optimized POS that continues to get worse every patch, the fact that console has a majority of the issues is irrelevant because everyone is aware of this fact, and have been since the game launched on console back in 2015.

Nemesis7884

geonsocal

misery loves company, so yeah, no...

Waynerx8

The company are just a bunch of inept delusional fools.

Why some people seem to worship them, or actually believe anyone from zos are their friends is just weird, they are not.

wishlist14

Waynerx8 wrote: »

The company are just a bunch of inept delusional fools.

Why some people seem to worship them, or actually believe anyone from zos are their friends is just weird, they are not.

I personally don't worship humans, I don't know anyone from zos personally. It is extremely presumptuous to just assume that of people just because they love eso and want the game to do well. Wanting eso to do well for me means giving credit to the game devs where it is due and constructive criticism in areas i feel are needed personally. Obviously i can't speak for anyone but myself.

We can't blame the creative team for all the bad decisions...we don't know who is making what decisions. Usually the big decisions are made by the top wigs. Yes a company is a business afcourse they are going to behave as a business does.
They are not my family or friends but they have created one of the best rpgmmos i have ever played thus far. Im a huge Tes fan and all elderscrolls games so eso to me is another extention of those games i loved.

Ive had my time offering constructive criticism about our latest combat model...i just wanted this post to be positive as i really enjoyed both northern Elsweyr and Southern Elsweyr. I have hope in this game...the day i loose all hope is the day i stop playing.

Thank you for your personal reply i just felt i had to clarify a few misconceptions...😊❤

wishlist14

MJallday wrote: »

also not withstanding the above, the entire support model that ZOS employs needs to be re-examined. Whilst there are good individuals, the system in place does not allow them to communicate effectively with the consumer base - and for the consumer base to effectively feed back.

I do agree zos need to build a steady bridge between them and us the clients, definately 😊😊😊😊

wishlist14

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

Delusional.txt

Let's just ignore the people who have high-end PCs, high-speed internet, and are still having issues because the the game itself is a poorly optimized POS that continues to get worse every patch, the fact that console has a majority of the issues is irrelevant because everyone is aware of this fact, and have been since the game launched on console back in 2015.

😅😅😅😅that baby !!!! Needs a pacifier

wishlist14

Mitrenga wrote: »

People gets fired for less. They are getting what they deserve. Game is great, we appreciate it really, but the servers have been a mess for a very long time. All they do is talk; "we will do this, we will do that"... yeah right.

I understand your frustration and trust me there are millions of posts about that. Surely I'm entitled to make one positive post . I never said zenimax don't have issues, i personally enjoyed the things i stated, i didn't make it up to upset people. I know there are issues and they have been pointed out over a trillion times or so it feels like they have.
Thanks for your reply you are entitled to your opinion and there is truth in what you say but again that is not to say i can't see the good in this game and the talent that produces the content.

Recent

I was negative in the past and got very frustrated but I now want eso to prosper. If Zenimax start liistening to us i believe we can have a great game. Listen to us the average players not the 1% leet ...not to the ones that only play endgame and dont do events or housing or ever overlands...listen to the people zenimax/ zos.

Please we've been begging you and our anger is due to feeling we are discarded and unheard.

If you listen to the insanely naturally gifted players which seriously is the minority then how can you expect to create content your bigger average player base are going to enjoy? I speak the truth.
Please consider your average player when working on the combat system ... the freaky talented players that can do hm naked runs get bored easily and go off to play other games for a while until you create new content but the average player base stick around and run guilds and invest in housing which is a huge money earner for you zos... they sub for the craft bags why? Because they play constantly and craft etc etc...
Do you really just want players to live in vMA and DSA inbetween raiding cause that is what many hardcore raiders do.

Thank you if you read this

Mitrenga

wishlist14 wrote: »

Mitrenga wrote: »

People gets fired for less. They are getting what they deserve. Game is great, we appreciate it really, but the servers have been a mess for a very long time. All they do is talk; "we will do this, we will do that"... yeah right.

I understand your frustration and trust me there are millions of posts about that. Surely I'm entitled to make one positive post . I never said zenimax don't have issues, i personally enjoyed the things i stated, i didn't make it up to upset people. I know there are issues and they have been pointed out over a trillion times or so it feels like they have.
Thanks for your reply you are entitled to your opinion and there is truth in what you say but again that is not to say i can't see the good in this game and the talent that produces the content.

I agree with you on most parts, as stated in my post, game is great. I have created many alts and levelled them, geared them up at level 50. All classes, mag versions and stam versions. I would not do that if I didn't enjoy the game. My issue is server stability. It has been so long, still no solution for that problem. Now, it is worse. It is really hard to support an MMO, which can not keep a stable online game server.

slicksteezin

Absolutely not. I feel bad for the loyal paying consumers that have been repeatedly thrown under the bus by a dev team that does not value communication or address the long-standing issues that have been voiced time and time again

Turelus

idk wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

The devs just throw crap at the wall and see what sticks, then sometimes adjusts things based on our feedback. They hardly even play their own game.

Whilst not all of them play, nor play every day like many of us, there are a decent number of ZOS staff who play the game in various areas of play. This can normally be seen via their social media accounts or through chatting with them at events.

If roleplaying in Riften counts as doing content, I guess the devs have that down. We tell them all sorts of glitches and problems that have been going on for years and they're still blind to them because they don't do content that requires more than a few light attacks to see these problems. Either that or the more accurate option: They just don't care about our opinions unless we make as much of a fuss as possible, the revert on the 1-second shield cast time being a good example. Just look at the recent balancing. They tell us it's time for a haircut and we tell them that we're okay with a little off the top, and they respond by shaving us bald and cutting off one of our ears while telling us that it's for our own good. After all i've seen recently, I don't trust the devs anymore. I used to think their balancing was pretty hamfisted but somewhat reasonable, but now it's clear that they aren't sure what they're doing sometimes.

From what I've seen and spoke with them they play; Questing/Story, Dungeons, Trials, Cyrodiil, Battle Grounds, Housing.
That's all the content in the game. Rich Lambert for example occasionally tweets about his random group finder groups in vet dungeons. They've also spoke about a lunch group who do trials and dungeons together in the studio.

The "Dev's don't play" is just some BS line every game community throws out when most often it's not the case. They don't play as much as us, and maybe not all of them play. However it's a flat out lie to say ZOS doesn't have staff who actively play the game.

Just because they're bad at game balance, or fixing issues we want doesn't mean they don't play the game.

They do play the game, and we know it. Not sure why someone would say suggest they do not play the game.

Pretty sure Rich has many clears in vMA. However, none of them play at the highest level of the game and I would also venture that the lunch group has not cleared vet of all trials and dungeons. Even Gil would be out of touch as I do not think he has raided seriously since he started working for them.

Agreed. They will never be putting in the hours nor have the level of raiders/PvP'ers the community has (mostly due to time) but it bugs me so much when people throw around this BS line of "Devs don't play" on every message board I read, normally when there is clear evidence its false.

JumpmanLane

Waynerx8 wrote: »

The company are just a bunch of inept delusional fools.

Why some people seem to worship them, or actually believe anyone from zos are their friends is just weird, they are not.

I’d say the folks there are a bit delusional. At Bethesda too. Skyrim's success really set them over the edge to the point where they believe folks will keep buying their buggy games.

And the jokes on me because I probably will...

Turelus

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Waynerx8 wrote: »

The company are just a bunch of inept delusional fools.

Why some people seem to worship them, or actually believe anyone from zos are their friends is just weird, they are not.

I’d say the folks there are a bit delusional. At Bethesda too. Skyrim's success really set them over the edge to the point where they believe folks will keep buying their buggy games.

And the jokes on me because I probably will...

The thing is the buggy games were acceptable when the companies heart was in the right place.

However now Zenimax group has shifted from "sorry we make buggy games, but we want to make games you love" to "how can we further monetise this" and that's broken the love and trust many have for the companies under its banner.

The dev teams still want to do the former, the management wants to do the later. As you said though, people will pay up and ignore it because that's how this industry works, and they know that which is why they do it.

Guyle

Turelus wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Waynerx8 wrote: »

The company are just a bunch of inept delusional fools.

Why some people seem to worship them, or actually believe anyone from zos are their friends is just weird, they are not.

I’d say the folks there are a bit delusional. At Bethesda too. Skyrim's success really set them over the edge to the point where they believe folks will keep buying their buggy games.

And the jokes on me because I probably will...

The thing is the buggy games were acceptable when the companies heart was in the right place.

However now Zenimax group has shifted from "sorry we make buggy games, but we want to make games you love" to "how can we further monetise this" and that's broken the love and trust many have for the companies under its banner.

The dev teams still want to do the former, the management wants to do the later. As you said though, people will pay up and ignore it because that's how this industry works, and they know that which is why they do it.

OMG this is so true. Who amongst us played arena, daggerfall, morrowind, oblivion, skyrim and truly got upset about the bugs? Who amongst us was so truly adverse to their inability to make ESO bug free until they also removed everything else that made the game fun? I know I'm on the fence here