animation canceling/ulti's

Ozazz

have they reverted the cast time on ulti's, anyone?

Xologamer

Ozazz wrote: »

have they reverted the cast time on ulti's, anyone?

dont think so .... unfortunately

Anyron

They made very clear this was intended and they want it to stay here

i must admit i feel little satisfaction here. all my ultimates are with delay ( meteor, atronach ) or useless (overload and negate - because hots are everywhere now it is pointless to negate groups)

Ozazz

yeah they also make it very clear they like to ruin the game for the solo player, hints why many people have moved on. I would consider coming back as a long time vet, but i'm burned out as the headache continues with every patch

Nerftheforums

No, they want 50+ yo to be competitive pvpers you know. It's important for their revenues. It's also important to not raise the skill cap because if people get gud, the the whole concept of this game would fall apart.

casparian

Anyron wrote: »

They made very clear this was intended and they want it to stay here

Did they? Because I'm really confused about the inconsistency here. Let's look at the breakdown of burst damage ults (leaving out utility ults like Undo or Negate, and damage over time ults like Soul Assault or Nova):

Guild ults

• 1 has a cast time (Dawnbreaker)
• 1 is instant-cast but has a travel delay (Meteor)

Class ults

• 3 burst damage ults are instant-cast (Leap, Crescent Sweep, Atronach). Two of those have an AOE stun.
• 2 burst damage ults have a cast time or delay on their burst damage ults (Incap/Harvest and the bear). Neither of those has a stun.
• Necro's burst ult is technically instant cast, but has a slight delay and a dodgeable telegraph.

Weapon ults

1. There is currently only one high burst damage weapon ult, and it has a cast time.

Put another way:

2 burst damage stun AOE ults have a cast time or travel time (Dawnbreaker, Meteor), 1 burst damage stun AOE ult is instant (Leap). 1 cheap burst damage ult with no stun has a cast time (Incap/Harvest), 1 cheap burst damage ult with no stun is instant (Crescent Sweep).

Just looking at the breakdown, I have to admit I have no idea what ZOS wants. Is instant-cast burst damage good or bad? Do non-telegraphed burst stuns need to have cast times or not? Do cheap burst ults with powerful secondary effects like Burning Light or Defile need cast times or not?

The ability design is all over the place and shows no consistency. Which would be fine with me, if "this skill wasn't consistent with others" weren't the reason ZOS gives for every nerf.

Nerftheforums

No, they want people with slow brain capacity and reflexes to understand what's going on. Doesn't matter if it makes the gameplay feel like ***: casuals above everything. It's important for their revenues you know. It's also important to not raise the skill cap because if people get gud, the the whole concept of this game would fall apart. So *** cancelling, *** reading situations, *** reflexes, *** strategy.

idk

casparian wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

They made very clear this was intended and they want it to stay here

Did they? Because I'm really confused about the inconsistency here. Let's look at the breakdown of burst damage ults (leaving out utility ults like Undo or Negate, and damage over time ults like Soul Assault or Nova):

Guild ults

• 1 has a cast time (Dawnbreaker)
• 1 is instant-cast but has a travel delay (Meteor)

Class ults

• 3 burst damage ults are instant-cast (Leap, Crescent Sweep, Atronach). Two of those have an AOE stun.
• 2 burst damage ults have a cast time or delay on their burst damage ults (Incap/Harvest and the bear). Neither of those has a stun.
• Necro's burst ult is technically instant cast, but has a slight delay and a dodgeable telegraph.

Weapon ults

1. There is currently only one high burst damage weapon ult, and it has a cast time.

Put another way:

2 burst damage stun AOE ults have a cast time or travel time (Dawnbreaker, Meteor), 1 burst damage stun AOE ult is instant (Leap). 1 cheap burst damage ult with no stun has a cast time (Incap/Harvest), 1 cheap burst damage ult with no stun is instant (Crescent Sweep).

Just looking at the breakdown, I have to admit I have no idea what ZOS wants. Is instant-cast burst damage good or bad? Do non-telegraphed burst stuns need to have cast times or not? Do cheap burst ults with powerful secondary effects like Burning Light or Defile need cast times or not?

The ability design is all over the place and shows no consistency. Which would be fine with me, if "this skill wasn't consistent with others" weren't the reason ZOS gives for every nerf.

There might be some consistency in what you are suggesting is inconsistent.

Guild ults. Both have a delay. The delay just works differently.
Class ults. Leap has travel time, Crescent Swep and Atronach are not exactly burst damage. They do have some up front damage but much occurs afterwards across multiple ticks. They really are not truly burst damage. You also point out the Necro ult is telegraphed which requires a delay to occur.

In other words, what you actually pointed out is a consistency for permitting counter play for ults that have good burst damage. iirc, that was what Zos said they were working towards with the changes to ults.

Anyron

casparian wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

They made very clear this was intended and they want it to stay here

Did they? Because I'm really confused about the inconsistency here. Let's look at the breakdown of burst damage ults (leaving out utility ults like Undo or Negate, and damage over time ults like Soul Assault or Nova):

Guild ults

• 1 has a cast time (Dawnbreaker)
• 1 is instant-cast but has a travel delay (Meteor)

Class ults

• 3 burst damage ults are instant-cast (Leap, Crescent Sweep, Atronach). Two of those have an AOE stun.
• 2 burst damage ults have a cast time or delay on their burst damage ults (Incap/Harvest and the bear). Neither of those has a stun.
• Necro's burst ult is technically instant cast, but has a slight delay and a dodgeable telegraph.

Weapon ults

1. There is currently only one high burst damage weapon ult, and it has a cast time.

Put another way:

2 burst damage stun AOE ults have a cast time or travel time (Dawnbreaker, Meteor), 1 burst damage stun AOE ult is instant (Leap). 1 cheap burst damage ult with no stun has a cast time (Incap/Harvest), 1 cheap burst damage ult with no stun is instant (Crescent Sweep).

Just looking at the breakdown, I have to admit I have no idea what ZOS wants. Is instant-cast burst damage good or bad? Do non-telegraphed burst stuns need to have cast times or not? Do cheap burst ults with powerful secondary effects like Burning Light or Defile need cast times or not?

The ability design is all over the place and shows no consistency. Which would be fine with me, if "this skill wasn't consistent with others" weren't the reason ZOS gives for every nerf.

atronach has delay too, it isnt instant. leap had delay , but since they speed it up it isnt as big as it was. but delay is still there . i am not sure about sweeps, i read somewhere it has cast time too - but i can be mistaken

as you can see most ( maybe all ) melee ults are now with cast time and thats because there was just short time to react. on other hand, ranged ults had always delay

Ozazz

Also pointing out, I love how they exert unfair bias to the nb class with the cast time in comparison to others!

Moonsorrow

What is a valid pain point is that a defensive heal ulti Soul Siphon has a cast time too. pure frustration moments been a lot since that change happened, for me atleast. Would imagine i am not the only one..

Cast times are bad m`kay. Especially on a game with fast and fluid combat. And with primetime Cyro already having a "cast time"/delay on actions due to lag so emergency skills with a cast time are then stuff of nightmares to use often.

MCBIZZLE300

Cant belive these changes havent been reverted, worst change made this year by far.

Davadin

casparian wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

They made very clear this was intended and they want it to stay here

Did they? Because I'm really confused about the inconsistency here. Let's look at the breakdown of burst damage ults (leaving out utility ults like Undo or Negate, and damage over time ults like Soul Assault or Nova):

Guild ults

• 1 has a cast time (Dawnbreaker)
• 1 is instant-cast but has a travel delay (Meteor)

Class ults

• 3 burst damage ults are instant-cast (Leap, Crescent Sweep, Atronach). Two of those have an AOE stun.
• 2 burst damage ults have a cast time or delay on their burst damage ults (Incap/Harvest and the bear). Neither of those has a stun.
• Necro's burst ult is technically instant cast, but has a slight delay and a dodgeable telegraph.

Weapon ults

1. There is currently only one high burst damage weapon ult, and it has a cast time.

Put another way:

2 burst damage stun AOE ults have a cast time or travel time (Dawnbreaker, Meteor), 1 burst damage stun AOE ult is instant (Leap). 1 cheap burst damage ult with no stun has a cast time (Incap/Harvest), 1 cheap burst damage ult with no stun is instant (Crescent Sweep).

Just looking at the breakdown, I have to admit I have no idea what ZOS wants. Is instant-cast burst damage good or bad? Do non-telegraphed burst stuns need to have cast times or not? Do cheap burst ults with powerful secondary effects like Burning Light or Defile need cast times or not?

The ability design is all over the place and shows no consistency. Which would be fine with me, if "this skill wasn't consistent with others" weren't the reason ZOS gives for every nerf.

Leap have travel delay. just sayin.

ketsparrowhawk

I really only think Onslaught needed a cast time.. only because the animation is not obvious at all and it hits so very hard. Getting nuked with a dodge-canceled onslaught feels like getting cheated. You never even saw the animation and had no opportunity to react. Seems fair to me.

Poor Dawnbreaker though. One of the most obvious animations.. raise a giant shining sword high above your head ('watch out guys here comes the DB!"), giving opponents more than plenty of warning to react. Nobody gets hit with DB anymore unless they are CC'd and out of stam.. and in that case, they're probably gonna die with or without the DB. Really hope they rethink the cast time for this particular skill.. at least reduce it by like half? It used to be such a great ult and now it really isn't.

I feel the same way about incap.. nobody gets hit with incap anymore. It has a very obvious audio queue.. everyone already instinctively dodges as soon as they hear it. Now with the cast time added, hardly anyone has slow enough reaction time to get hit with incap. Again, unless they're CC'd and out of stam.. and at that point it really doesn't matter. Incap might be the biggest tragedy here.. was such an amazing class-defining ult that has been totally ruined. Half the stamblades now don't use it at all. The ones who still do are always careful to never get to 120 ult because they don't want to give enemies free CC immunity.. that's another thread topic, but that ON TOP of the cast time makes it a sad sad version of its former awesome self. A real shame. All it needed was to have defile removed

Rend??? I mean.. this is already a dead skill. So I guess nobody really cares but why put another nail in the coffin? Because "standardization" I guess.

Onslaught was the only one that deserved it.

p00tx

Nerftheforums wrote: »

No, they want 50+ yo to be competitive pvpers you know. It's important for their revenues. It's also important to not raise the skill cap because if people get gud, the the whole concept of this game would fall apart.

I get that you're frustrated. We all are, and I'm on your side with the whole lowering of the skill cap. But please don't make this about "old vs young". I know plenty of people in their 40s and 50s who PvP and they could pack up 10 Adderall soaked 18 year olds with one orthopedic shoe tied behind their back. This isn't about age or reflexes or lack of skill, this is about certain types of people trying to "git gud" by making the baseline for this game "bad". Those people exist in every age range and skill set.

khajiitNPC

I definitely wish they’d never added the cast time to ults — that being said, if they are going to have cast time on certain offensive ults, they should put it in all offensive ults. I was so used to roll dodging into a DBoS or Rend. This is my only gripe. Casuals can easily learn to AC, but to be honest even with cast times, the same people still get rekt.