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15k dps

  • hamgatan
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    its definitely doable with 15K. but as everyone's saying. mechanics. it's a learning curve.

    here's a run of mine on Voriak Solkyn (i think it was my 2nd or 3rd completion ever?) - averaging 10-15k ST (some 20-25 burst moments but mostly AoE, and this was before AoE's got toned down). of course this was pre-nerfmire, slightly different build to what I run now.. it's not absolutely perfect - few brown pants moments.. but you get the idea.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=giDT1r-lPAw
    Edited by hamgatan on October 22, 2019 3:00AM
    PC / NA - 2100 CP

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  • Orjix
    Orjix
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    ebix_ wrote: »
    if you want to carry your own weight in dlc vet and hm , you should go for +40 at least
    and if you only do (light attack + spammable ability) you can easily do +25 so I don't know how you are stuck with 15k

    no, not true. I have no idea where people get this number, i can have the most meta build and just la+spammable is only enough to hit about 17k dps
  • Linaleah
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    some of the requirements in this thread are highly HIGHLY inflated.

    last few months, SO and i have been 2 manning dungeons with my hybrid tanking with some offheals and him mostly dpsing with some more heals as needed.

    though second to last boss in Moongrave Fane and a few other DLC bosses that had very specific (you absolutely positively cannot miss an interrupt an there is a short window to do it) bosses gave us some trouble? we have been able to two man pretty much every normal mode in a game, as well as quite a few vanilla vet dungeons. not only that but most of those runs have gone much MUCH faster and smoother than vast majority of random pugs i was a part of. (I say most because there were a few runs I had with "fake" tanks that were very VERY good at this game, so the rest of us just basically tagged along, doing our best to keep up, while they soloed everything)

    why do i bring it up? becasue on my hybrid build I get maybe 6k dps if that, and according to combat metrics he does between 13k and 20k

    do you know what that tells me? I'll tell you. 1. you do not need nearly as much as forum people think you do, to get through dungeons quickly and easily. 2. most people do a heck of a lot less damage that you all think and judging by my personal experiences at that - its apparently less then 25k COMBINED group damage for your average 4 man group where I tend to heal and help with dps as I can (and my meters tell me I alone do about 4-6k on my healer build - same as my hybrid tanky build I use for 2 manning content with SO) 3. if you follow mechanics and that includes not standing in bad stuff, the main difference high dps makes is that things just die faster, but even with 15k dps they will STILL die. (P.S. last I checked, he go past round 7 of VMA before taking a break from learning it, and that was before he started practicing his weaving)

    will higher dps make things easier? yes. is it a panacea? no. being quick on your fit and paying attention to mechanics will get you farther then being able to turret a target dummy very well. if you are good at mechanics AND target dummy turreting - awesome, you are golden, but in terms of priority, mechanics are still > then raw damage output. dead dps does NO dps. is high dps an actual requirement (as in if you don't have it you will 100% not be able to get through the content) for anything outside of certain vet trials, and vet hardmodes ? not even remotely.
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • Morgha_Kul
    Morgha_Kul
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    Heh, I laugh because I average anywhere from 2k to 6k dps on my Templar....

    And I'm perfectly happy with that.
    Exploring Tamriel since 1994.
  • LinearParadox
    LinearParadox
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    Whitebeerd wrote: »
    If you don’t want to change then don’t, you just won’t improve.

    aint asking how to be more meta (stronger) am asking what content is 15k good or okey with

    "Stronger" =/= "meta"
    You can have a strong build without following the meta. The meta is usually just squeezing out the last 5-10% while stuffing you into a mold. It's up to you if you don't want that.

    However, performing your role is not the same thing as "meta". If your ROLE is to deal damage, then deal damage.

    If you want to keep your special UwU build and deal 15K damage as a DPS, then you're never gonna really make it out of normal dungeons and maybe nMA if you've at least got some tankiness/self-healing to your build.
    Anything past that, you're just going to be a weight to carry for your team unless you're willing to do what it takes to pull your own weight.
    twitch.tv/linearparadox
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  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Aelorin wrote: »
    I am afraid I have to dissapoint you, but I do not think that 15k DPS can get you through vMailstrom.

    Have you tried normal Maelstrom Arena yet? How is it going for you there?

    You say it yourself: You know what you have to do to get more DPS, so my advice would be: Just change the gear to maximum DPS to beat vMaelstrom, it really is quite hard untill you get to know it better. Every edge you can get matters.

    Once you have beaten vMaelstrom, you can change back to your less optimal build to quest and do overland content.

    I know you can get through vMA on 10k. I think it's possible with 5k, but both of those are going to be miserable. The only reason I know this is because it is possible to take a tank through vMA. But it is not a fun way to do the content.
  • Grianasteri
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    Whitebeerd wrote: »
    I really like my playstyle (stamdk) but i know what to change and what gear i need to change the dps to 20k-25k but still i dont want to change becuse i have fun the way i play right now, but i still want to do content

    Now i have stopped caring about Trails and vDLC so was wondering is 15k (can do 19k max) alot or atleast okey for all conent exept vet-dlc and vet-trails but like vMealstorm is something i plan to do very soon and what about nDLC ?

    For ALL content, other than vet dungeons and trials, 15k is OK. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. The important thing is that you are having fun and enjoy your way of playing.

    BUT, if you wish to participate in ANY vet content, 15k is low and such low dps will impact the group. In fact for some content, 15k will likely render it extremely difficult to progress as there are some dps checks that require enough to be done in a short space of time to progress.

    What I would say, is if you can pull 15k, its likely with some small tweeks here and there, you will pull at least over 20k and as you improve 25k will be achievable. I would encourage you to learn about light attack weaving and animation cancelling, this does not require that you "change" per se the way you play, more that you update and improve it, you can have same skills rotation, same sets etc, but the additional dps is huge. There are great guides online if you look.

    Obviously if you do want to improve I also encourage you to join a helpful guild that has some players willing and enthusiastic about helping players improve their builds and play. Again, there are plenty of guides out there online. Everything from attribute distribution, skills, rotation, skill morphs, sets worn etc.
    Edited by Grianasteri on October 22, 2019 10:55AM
  • Haquor
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    Its really not hard. Regardless of player ability everyone is capable. Get some purple crafted dps sets, keep up a couple of dots while spamming a spammable, drop a mildly appropriate ultimate when its ready and you will do better dps than you mentioned. Like.. 3 skills. If you can type you can do that.

    Vma though. Damage needs to be instinctive or your rime there will be incresibly punishing.
    Edited by Haquor on October 22, 2019 12:54PM
  • Bryath
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    do you know what that tells me? I'll tell you. 1. you do not need nearly as much as forum people think you do, to get through dungeons quickly and easily. 2. most people do a heck of a lot less damage that you all think and judging by my personal experiences at that - its apparently less then 25k COMBINED group damage for your average 4 man group where I tend to heal and help with dps as I can (and my meters tell me I alone do about 4-6k on my healer build - same as my hybrid tanky build I use for 2 manning content with SO) 3. if you follow mechanics and that includes not standing in bad stuff, the main difference high dps makes is that things just die faster, but even with 15k dps they will STILL die. (P.S. last I checked, he go past round 7 of VMA before taking a break from learning it, and that was before he started practicing his weaving)

    But, but ... I thought it was easy to do 15k just by farting in a boss' general direction and anyone under 20k should stick to overland?!!?
    Thanks for a great post, sincerely. o:)
  • Linaleah
    Linaleah
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    Bryath wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    do you know what that tells me? I'll tell you. 1. you do not need nearly as much as forum people think you do, to get through dungeons quickly and easily. 2. most people do a heck of a lot less damage that you all think and judging by my personal experiences at that - its apparently less then 25k COMBINED group damage for your average 4 man group where I tend to heal and help with dps as I can (and my meters tell me I alone do about 4-6k on my healer build - same as my hybrid tanky build I use for 2 manning content with SO) 3. if you follow mechanics and that includes not standing in bad stuff, the main difference high dps makes is that things just die faster, but even with 15k dps they will STILL die. (P.S. last I checked, he go past round 7 of VMA before taking a break from learning it, and that was before he started practicing his weaving)

    But, but ... I thought it was easy to do 15k just by farting in a boss' general direction and anyone under 20k should stick to overland?!!?
    Thanks for a great post, sincerely. o:)

    glad you enjoyed it and yeah, whenever people make claims about how absolutely brainless it is to get 15k - you start looking into it and and realize, they are using perfected gear, popping potions on cooldown, have maxed optimized cp and most importantly - know how to animation cancel and the like, so even when they are not using entirety of their rotation, they are STILL benefiting from all those reflexes AND hours and hours of just hammering at a dummy, practicing their rotation. reminds me of the time I was trying to teach someone one of the craft techniques that I use and for me, that technique IS easy and thoughtless cause I've been using it regularly for years... so I thought it should be a good starter technique right? wrong. oh so wrong. the person I was teaching - was struggling and their result was uneven and messy, and no it wasn't that I was teaching them badly - it looked generally how it should, but it didn't have smoothness or flow, let alone speed (it took that person a LOT longer to do then it took me) among other things. and I hope it comes across that I'm NOT trying to bash people who practice, because I'm not, but what i AM trying to say is that expectations some players have for everyone else are inflated through their own personal bias.

    and as I said, there IS content in this game that genuinely requires it. pretty much all of the DLC dungeon hardmodes and many of the vanilla dungeon hardmodes (not all - speaking from experience), a lot of the vet timed dungeon run achievements (but again, not all, as SO and I have found out when we got a few timed vet dungeon runs without even specifically trying for it), most but not all vet trials (AA is a lot more forgiving) - all require higher per person dps. still not 70k+ but they do require more then 15k.

    however.. claiming that you cannot do VMA or vet dungeons with these numbers, at all? is blatantly false claims made more often then not by people who simply don't wish to make an actual effort in a dungeon beyond mashing buttons very fast and just want things to melt before they even consider learning mechanics. and then of course, they turn around and complain about how everything is too easy. /sigh
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    ...and most importantly - know how to animation cancel and the like...

    It's this. Specifically, the, "15k is easy," is, "you know how to weave." Everything goes up from there.
  • Linaleah
    Linaleah
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    ...and most importantly - know how to animation cancel and the like...

    It's this. Specifically, the, "15k is easy," is, "you know how to weave." Everything goes up from there.

    oh for sure, but optimized gear also does make a little bit of difference. like... i've seen the difference between regular vs perfected relequen and siroria for example, and while its not ALL, its there and it adds up.
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    I had a heck of a time with Maelstrom on Stam DK until I switched to 2H. Don’t know why? It was much easier for me with that.

    I use Vicious Ophidian, Briarhearts, Veledreth.

    You probably be alright with selenes or Stormfist or Kraghs. You could also swap in a couple 1 piece add armor like pirate skele/Chudan/lord warden.

    Some find Maelstrom ever so easy on Werewolve, so there’s that too.
  • rotaugen454
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    I think that I hit 9k just by holding down the button for heavy attacks but it was all gold gear and max CP. Its been a while since I’ve tested that but it’s probably in the same ballpark.
    "Get off my lawn!"
  • SidraWillowsky
    SidraWillowsky
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    Bryath wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    do you know what that tells me? I'll tell you. 1. you do not need nearly as much as forum people think you do, to get through dungeons quickly and easily. 2. most people do a heck of a lot less damage that you all think and judging by my personal experiences at that - its apparently less then 25k COMBINED group damage for your average 4 man group where I tend to heal and help with dps as I can (and my meters tell me I alone do about 4-6k on my healer build - same as my hybrid tanky build I use for 2 manning content with SO) 3. if you follow mechanics and that includes not standing in bad stuff, the main difference high dps makes is that things just die faster, but even with 15k dps they will STILL die. (P.S. last I checked, he go past round 7 of VMA before taking a break from learning it, and that was before he started practicing his weaving)

    But, but ... I thought it was easy to do 15k just by farting in a boss' general direction and anyone under 20k should stick to overland?!!?
    Thanks for a great post, sincerely. o:)

    glad you enjoyed it and yeah, whenever people make claims about how absolutely brainless it is to get 15k - you start looking into it and and realize, they are using perfected gear, popping potions on cooldown, have maxed optimized cp and most importantly - know how to animation cancel and the like, so even when they are not using entirety of their rotation, they are STILL benefiting from all those reflexes AND hours and hours of just hammering at a dummy, practicing their rotation. reminds me of the time I was trying to teach someone one of the craft techniques that I use and for me, that technique IS easy and thoughtless cause I've been using it regularly for years... so I thought it should be a good starter technique right? wrong. oh so wrong. the person I was teaching - was struggling and their result was uneven and messy, and no it wasn't that I was teaching them badly - it looked generally how it should, but it didn't have smoothness or flow, let alone speed (it took that person a LOT longer to do then it took me) among other things. and I hope it comes across that I'm NOT trying to bash people who practice, because I'm not, but what i AM trying to say is that expectations some players have for everyone else are inflated through their own personal bias.

    and as I said, there IS content in this game that genuinely requires it. pretty much all of the DLC dungeon hardmodes and many of the vanilla dungeon hardmodes (not all - speaking from experience), a lot of the vet timed dungeon run achievements (but again, not all, as SO and I have found out when we got a few timed vet dungeon runs without even specifically trying for it), most but not all vet trials (AA is a lot more forgiving) - all require higher per person dps. still not 70k+ but they do require more then 15k.

    however.. claiming that you cannot do VMA or vet dungeons with these numbers, at all? is blatantly false claims made more often then not by people who simply don't wish to make an actual effort in a dungeon beyond mashing buttons very fast and just want things to melt before they even consider learning mechanics. and then of course, they turn around and complain about how everything is too easy. /sigh

    Yeah, as a min-maxer potion-popper dummy-*** who at this point animation-cancels instinctively, I'm realizing how easy it is to forget how hard I worked in the beginning to get to 15k and how insurmountable even 20k felt. My knee-jerk reaction upon reading this was to tell OP how easy it would be to get to 20-25k, but yeah, it took a lot of work.

    I think that most non-DLC vet content can be completed with 15k, but in a lot of cases it's not going to be completed quickly.
    Vet Darkshade 2, City of Ash 2, and the like will be very difficult at best and impossible at worst (vet CoA II HM likely won't happen, for example, since it's a DPS race).

    Vet Maelstrom.... not sure about that, however. In group dungeons and trials I usually pull 30-35k in fights with lots of movement, and 45k on relatively static, single-target fights. In vMA I usually max out at 20k DPS since I change my gear and rotation to favor survivability and have to spend some time being a tank and healer, thus dropping my DPS. If you're pulling 15k right now you can probably expect that to drop. That'll be an issue at the end of the final round in stage 5, where you'll wipe if you don't get the boss down quickly enough, since she smashes the platform after about 20 seconds. If you can time your sigil use properly you might be OK if you can grab the power sigil at that phase, but it'll still be difficult. Other than that I can't think of anything in vMA that can't be done with 15k, it's just gonna be a handicap- ie, you're likely not going to be able to get all of the crystals down in one go in the final boss round, so you're going to be dropping down and dealing with the Crematorial Guardians, which are also a pain and will be especially dangerous at lower DPS, since that's more time for them to spew flames at you and applying that insane DoT.

    But yes, the only hard DPS check is, I believe, the last of stage 5. As soon as the matriarch smashes the second platform, the timer starts, and if you cannot get her down within 15-20 seconds (I can't remember), you WILL wipe. There's nothing you can do to stop it if you cannot get her down quickly enough.

    EDIT: looking at my DPS numbers for the final boss in vMA, I guess I only really did between 15-19k after he went upstairs and it was a pretty clean run. You can see the DPS number in the left side of the black box at the very top center of the screen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8IJJD5jETA
    Edited by SidraWillowsky on October 22, 2019 4:15PM
  • kathandira
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    Whitebeerd wrote: »
    If you don’t want to change then don’t, you just won’t improve.

    aint asking how to be more meta (stronger) am asking what content is 15k good or okey with

    Normal Dungeons and Trials.
    Vet Non-DLC Version 1 Dungeons.

    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • starkerealm
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    ...and most importantly - know how to animation cancel and the like...

    It's this. Specifically, the, "15k is easy," is, "you know how to weave." Everything goes up from there.

    oh for sure, but optimized gear also does make a little bit of difference. like... i've seen the difference between regular vs perfected relequen and siroria for example, and while its not ALL, its there and it adds up.

    Oh, yeah, it makes a difference, but the only thing you need to jump from struggling to hit 10, and routinely floating in the 17-23 range is learning to weave.

    Everything after that does help. CP helps. Good sets help. A solid rotation helps. Upgrading weapons to gold helps a ton.

    Rele on it's own is around 5k, if you can rock that, and it will push you towards weaving.

    But, a basic weave is the first thing that will push you over that threshold. Before everything else.
  • Linaleah
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    ...and most importantly - know how to animation cancel and the like...

    It's this. Specifically, the, "15k is easy," is, "you know how to weave." Everything goes up from there.

    oh for sure, but optimized gear also does make a little bit of difference. like... i've seen the difference between regular vs perfected relequen and siroria for example, and while its not ALL, its there and it adds up.

    Oh, yeah, it makes a difference, but the only thing you need to jump from struggling to hit 10, and routinely floating in the 17-23 range is learning to weave.

    Everything after that does help. CP helps. Good sets help. A solid rotation helps. Upgrading weapons to gold helps a ton.

    Rele on it's own is around 5k, if you can rock that, and it will push you towards weaving.

    But, a basic weave is the first thing that will push you over that threshold. Before everything else.

    bolded - 100%, not even going to argue about that, because that is the honest truth about combat in this game - getting your rotation down WITH weaving will do more for your dps than anything else, by far. i just mean that whenever I see those "you can do 15k with just light attack spam!" claims there is usually a lot more involved then just spamming a light attack.
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • Reedx
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    Will say this..

    do now 24k dps on 3mil, and can see the goal of 30k dps in my sight but i am in nu hurry :)

    But for those who said mealstorm cant be done less then 20k is wrong. i have now done it after hours upon hours of constant death, but in the end i did less then 10k dps, its all about the mech guys, health and mechs thats what matters in mealstorm and dont let anyone els tell you other wise
    Maker of Drama & Lover of Roleplay
  • ruengdet2515
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    never pass 15-20k with 400-450ms
  • Vanathil
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    msalvia wrote: »
    And don't take this the wrong way, but maxing out at 15k isn't a problem with gear, it's a problem with rotation and/or weaving. Do you use combat addons like Srendarr? That has been a huge help in timing out my abilities so I'm not over/undercasting.

    ^this
    I never did vMA, but I plan to do, it's just I run vet dungeons for pledge and I do like 15-20k damage aswell, which isn't quite a lot. I run a stamsorc with gold briarheart, purple relequen and velidreth, and noticed I always do like 30% damage at bosses and i don't think that's quite good for it. Then there were people who suggested me to learn the rotation, watch dots, buffs timing, light attack between every single spell, etc. And believe me, it improves a lot! There are also some nice guides from Xynode, Alcast, Dottzgaming that explains how to improve/maximalize your damage. Good luck with it!

    Edit: well, damn, this is a 2 months old thread and I writing in hoping to help a bit xD, but hey, I'm glad that you managed :p
    Edited by Vanathil on December 16, 2019 3:09PM
  • Varana
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    Whitebeerd wrote: »
    Will say this..

    do now 24k dps on 3mil, and can see the goal of 30k dps in my sight but i am in nu hurry :)

    But for those who said mealstorm cant be done less then 20k is wrong. i have now done it after hours upon hours of constant death, but in the end i did less then 10k dps, its all about the mech guys, health and mechs thats what matters in mealstorm and dont let anyone els tell you other wise

    Congratulations! :)
  • ssewallb14_ESO
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    When VMA came out, before several years of power creep, people were averaging 10-15k DPS on most fights, which seems to be what it was tuned for. It's very hard with DPS that low, but can be done.
  • pelle412
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    Whitebeerd wrote: »
    Will say this..

    do now 24k dps on 3mil, and can see the goal of 30k dps in my sight but i am in nu hurry :)

    But for those who said mealstorm cant be done less then 20k is wrong. i have now done it after hours upon hours of constant death, but in the end i did less then 10k dps, its all about the mech guys, health and mechs thats what matters in mealstorm and dont let anyone els tell you other wise

    I would say this. Play with the setup you want, because you can always get better with it. The sets you listed can get you further than your stated goals with practice.
  • Anotherone773
    Anotherone773
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    Whitebeerd wrote: »
    Will say this..

    do now 24k dps on 3mil, and can see the goal of 30k dps in my sight but i am in nu hurry :)

    But for those who said mealstorm cant be done less then 20k is wrong. i have now done it after hours upon hours of constant death, but in the end i did less then 10k dps, its all about the mech guys, health and mechs thats what matters in mealstorm and dont let anyone els tell you other wise

    People put far to much stock in DPS. Most of what people say you need for stuff in this game is about double and sometimes triple what you actually need. It is always easier to do content with high dps because you can just steamroll through it and ignore many of the mechanics.

    Ive never have seen people need the claimed DPS in this game or any other MMO that people think is required to do content. Most normal DLCS can be done with less than 25k GROUP dps for example. 80% of group content in this game can be done just fine with 20k per dps and 95% of content in this game can be done with 30k per dps. Its finding the right people to do that content with.

    Not everyone needs to blow through content as fast as possible and not everyone wants to make a career out of playing a game so they git gud. Some people want to blitz content and want max efficiency so they can run as much content as possible in as small amount of time as possible. Others done care if it takes them an hour to get through normal bloodforge with a Pug group.

    You just have to know what group you belong in and dont let the other group try to lock you out of content because they think everyone needs to play like them.
  • cheifsoap
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    I can just say this from my POV. I wouldn't want to do normal DLC with you because your dps is just too low for my tastes, I don't get enjoyment from this game being carried or carrying other people but that's just me. Don't be shocked if people you play with are turned off by your low dps. As for vMA? You should be okay...that zone has a way of training you how to beat it but you'll probably end up making adjustments on your "play style" if you really want to beat it.
  • r34lian
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    never pass 15-20k with 400-450ms

    I too play at that ping barely manage to pass 45k 6 mil on stamblade but with vMA bow pre elswyr however animaton is wonky as *** not to mention skills double cast or not at all casting certainly takes used to getting
    2000 CP • 18 Maxed Characters • 6 Altmers • 7 Redguards • Necromancer Orc • Warden Dunmer • DK Nord • DK Imperial • Templar Breton
  • ForzaRammer
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    Bryath wrote: »
    Linaleah wrote: »
    do you know what that tells me? I'll tell you. 1. you do not need nearly as much as forum people think you do, to get through dungeons quickly and easily. 2. most people do a heck of a lot less damage that you all think and judging by my personal experiences at that - its apparently less then 25k COMBINED group damage for your average 4 man group where I tend to heal and help with dps as I can (and my meters tell me I alone do about 4-6k on my healer build - same as my hybrid tanky build I use for 2 manning content with SO) 3. if you follow mechanics and that includes not standing in bad stuff, the main difference high dps makes is that things just die faster, but even with 15k dps they will STILL die. (P.S. last I checked, he go past round 7 of VMA before taking a break from learning it, and that was before he started practicing his weaving)

    But, but ... I thought it was easy to do 15k just by farting in a boss' general direction and anyone under 20k should stick to overland?!!?
    Thanks for a great post, sincerely. o:)

    glad you enjoyed it and yeah, whenever people make claims about how absolutely brainless it is to get 15k - you start looking into it and and realize, they are using perfected gear, popping potions on cooldown, have maxed optimized cp and most importantly - know how to animation cancel and the like, so even when they are not using entirety of their rotation, they are STILL benefiting from all those reflexes AND hours and hours of just hammering at a dummy, practicing their rotation. reminds me of the time I was trying to teach someone one of the craft techniques that I use and for me, that technique IS easy and thoughtless cause I've been using it regularly for years... so I thought it should be a good starter technique right? wrong. oh so wrong. the person I was teaching - was struggling and their result was uneven and messy, and no it wasn't that I was teaching them badly - it looked generally how it should, but it didn't have smoothness or flow, let alone speed (it took that person a LOT longer to do then it took me) among other things. and I hope it comes across that I'm NOT trying to bash people who practice, because I'm not, but what i AM trying to say is that expectations some players have for everyone else are inflated through their own personal bias.

    and as I said, there IS content in this game that genuinely requires it. pretty much all of the DLC dungeon hardmodes and many of the vanilla dungeon hardmodes (not all - speaking from experience), a lot of the vet timed dungeon run achievements (but again, not all, as SO and I have found out when we got a few timed vet dungeon runs without even specifically trying for it), most but not all vet trials (AA is a lot more forgiving) - all require higher per person dps. still not 70k+ but they do require more then 15k.

    however.. claiming that you cannot do VMA or vet dungeons with these numbers, at all? is blatantly false claims made more often then not by people who simply don't wish to make an actual effort in a dungeon beyond mashing buttons very fast and just want things to melt before they even consider learning mechanics. and then of course, they turn around and complain about how everything is too easy. /sigh

    Yeah, as a min-maxer potion-popper dummy-*** who at this point animation-cancels instinctively, I'm realizing how easy it is to forget how hard I worked in the beginning to get to 15k and how insurmountable even 20k felt. My knee-jerk reaction upon reading this was to tell OP how easy it would be to get to 20-25k, but yeah, it took a lot of work.

    I think that most non-DLC vet content can be completed with 15k, but in a lot of cases it's not going to be completed quickly.
    Vet Darkshade 2, City of Ash 2, and the like will be very difficult at best and impossible at worst (vet CoA II HM likely won't happen, for example, since it's a DPS race).

    Vet Maelstrom.... not sure about that, however. In group dungeons and trials I usually pull 30-35k in fights with lots of movement, and 45k on relatively static, single-target fights. In vMA I usually max out at 20k DPS since I change my gear and rotation to favor survivability and have to spend some time being a tank and healer, thus dropping my DPS. If you're pulling 15k right now you can probably expect that to drop. That'll be an issue at the end of the final round in stage 5, where you'll wipe if you don't get the boss down quickly enough, since she smashes the platform after about 20 seconds. If you can time your sigil use properly you might be OK if you can grab the power sigil at that phase, but it'll still be difficult. Other than that I can't think of anything in vMA that can't be done with 15k, it's just gonna be a handicap- ie, you're likely not going to be able to get all of the crystals down in one go in the final boss round, so you're going to be dropping down and dealing with the Crematorial Guardians, which are also a pain and will be especially dangerous at lower DPS, since that's more time for them to spew flames at you and applying that insane DoT.

    But yes, the only hard DPS check is, I believe, the last of stage 5. As soon as the matriarch smashes the second platform, the timer starts, and if you cannot get her down within 15-20 seconds (I can't remember), you WILL wipe. There's nothing you can do to stop it if you cannot get her down quickly enough.

    EDIT: looking at my DPS numbers for the final boss in vMA, I guess I only really did between 15-19k after he went upstairs and it was a pretty clean run. You can see the DPS number in the left side of the black box at the very top center of the screen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8IJJD5jETA

    You are talking about actual dps, most folks used parse dps as bench mark. With all the running ofc your actual dps is lower.
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