Can an 8-Skill Bar work for PC and Console?

Jabbs_Giggity

There have been many discussions and feedback regarding adding additional skill slots to our Action Bars. In theory, there is a way to do so for both PC and Console (without need of buying Elite Controllers).

Here is my suggestion.

First and foremost, PC already has the ability to assign nearly infinite keys to actionable abilities, so I will not even touch on this - this Poll is mainly for viability of Console players.

1. Re-map "skills" to two categories (not considering Ultimates as a third, separately).

• Utility - These are skills that add a primary utility function such as Buffs, CC's and "Fire-and-Forget" (Example: Pets).
• Action - These are skills that primarily damage and/or debuff.

2. Allow assigning up to four (4) of each category to separate function keys (discussed next), per bar. This would allow 8-bar skill combinations.

3. Assign Utility skills to Directional D-Pad slots. Assign Action skills to (for Xbox) X, Y, O, B -or- (for Playstation) Square, Triangle, Circle, X

4. Sprint remains tied to Left Joystick press.

5. Triggers and Bumpers:

• Left Trigger = Block
• Left Bumper = Roll (press) / Crouch (held)
• Right Trigger = Light Attack (press) / Heavy Attack (held)
• Right Bumper = Optional: Ultimate (press) Quick-slot Wheel (held)

6. Ultimates would be configured to (for Xbox) Y+B -or- (for Playstation) Triangle+Circle

Jabbs_Giggity

Yes

To clarify: Bar-Swap would be moved to Right Bumper (press)

Before you all go nailing me to the cross.

jecks33

No

on console we can barely swap bar, imagine magage skills between 4 directional keys.....

Goregrinder

If I wanted more skills I would play one of the 49 other MMO's that have 40 skills per bar. 12 skills plus a pot is enough imo, and it is tried and true.

Jabbs_Giggity

Yes

jecks33 wrote: »

on console we can barely swap bar, imagine magage skills between 4 directional keys.....

Fair point, but if your buffs last average 15-20 seconds you wouldn't be managing as much IMO and this would give some leeway to overcrowded bar setups and allow more build diversity in battle when fighting different enemies that require different mechanics/counters.

Imagine being able to range one bar and melee another without sacrificing slots for buffs (which ZOS is starting to spread out over multiple skills now)

oXI_Viper_IXo

No

What about changing the view? Or using your quickslot item?

Jabbs_Giggity

Yes

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

What about changing the view? Or using your quickslot item?

You obviously did not read the whole post...

Quick-slot Item would be holding right bumper.

Changing view from 1st-3rd Person (valid point) - I play exclusively in 3rd person, not sure why anyone wouldn't...but yes, I admit my bias. "select"?

Donny_Vito

Yes

The question of can it work? Yes, it's perfectly doable. But I don't know if it would make me anymore efficient than I currently am. Like you mentioned, I'd need buffs to be a littler longer as I don't think it makes sense to add more skill slots yet keep the buffs the same as they currently are.

Jabbs_Giggity

Yes

Donny_Vito wrote: »

The question of can it work? Yes, it's perfectly doable. But I don't know if it would make me anymore efficient than I currently am. Like you mentioned, I'd need buffs to be a littler longer as I don't think it makes sense to add more skill slots yet keep the buffs the same as they currently are.

Not sure I am understanding your logic. If you have 8 free bars for Buffs, etc. that are dedicated to your left hand, why would they need to be longer duration?

Also, as some will inevitably point out that I left out "how to use a potion selected from Quick-Slot" I would suggest pressing the "select" key (and in previous comment for "select" holding select would change view)

exeeter702

Granted ff14 is not based around the same reactionary combat system, although I would posit that standing out of the fires and doing the aoe dance in 14s endgame is far more strict, it is entirely possible as demonstrated by 14s cross bar feature to upwards of 18 hot bar buttons on a controller.

But this idea isnt really even worth humoring because, coming with it would need to be a discussion on how to remake ESOs combat system, since its buff timers, GCD, lack of auto attacks and power budget per skill are all based around the principle of having only 10+2 ult skills in a given build.

You have gone through decent lengths to make your case OP but 14s pad system already demonstrates proof this already works as pc and console players play together, and watching someone on pad play execute a high end pve dps rotation is actually cool looking. There really isnt any need to get elaborate, yes mechanically it would work, but that isnt the game that ESO was intended to be.

Starlock

Comment/Other

You could get more skills, but this isn’t how you would want to do it.

oXI_Viper_IXo

No

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

What about changing the view? Or using your quickslot item?

You obviously did not read the whole post...

Quick-slot Item would be holding right bumper.

Changing view from 1st-3rd Person (valid point) - I play exclusively in 3rd person, not sure why anyone wouldn't...but yes, I admit my bias. "select"?

Yes, I did read the post, it says quick-slot wheel, which just opens up the wheel, doesn't actually use the item. On Xbox, you hold up to open the wheel or press up to use the item.

As for changing the view, while I exclusively play in 3rd person fully zoomed out in PvP, sometimes in PvE I like to zoom in while inside cramped delves or just to check out my character.

"Select" or the window button opens the map.

svartorn

Yes

I wouldn't mind having another slot or 3 on my bar, especially considering 1 out of my 5 is Inner light so I rarely even press it.

Donny_Vito

Yes

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

The question of can it work? Yes, it's perfectly doable. But I don't know if it would make me anymore efficient than I currently am. Like you mentioned, I'd need buffs to be a littler longer as I don't think it makes sense to add more skill slots yet keep the buffs the same as they currently are.

Not sure I am understanding your logic. If you have 8 free bars for Buffs, etc. that are dedicated to your left hand, why would they need to be longer duration?

Also, as some will inevitably point out that I left out "how to use a potion selected from Quick-Slot" I would suggest pressing the "select" key (and in previous comment for "select" holding select would change view)

My logic: we have 10 skill slots right now, and about half of my skills are used for buffs in one way or another. If we add even more skill slots, I think the percentage will still be about the same. So now I'm having to work in even more buffs to my rotation as I have them available to use. I guess the end-result might still be about the same amount of button clicks, but it's so annoying having to re-apply a buff every 8 seconds, and the thought of having to apply even more buffs doesn't sound appealing. Unless they modify skills to have more passive buffs.

And not to mention, this new setup is going to be difficult for console players to LA weave while trying to use the D-pad or select button.

Taleof2Cities

Comment/Other

Not totally opposed to the idea ... but managing the 5 skills + 1 ultimate is valuable for theorycrafting.

Increasing skill bar slots would dilute the theorycrafting aspect ... making it easier for players to simply “slot everything” to get maximum passives from the skill lines.

Jusey1

Personally, I think we should have 5 normal skills and 1 ultimate, like right now but with one or two more slots that are passive only (you can't use them but they still give you their passive if you have them). It gets rather annoying on only having 4 usable abilities per bar on some of my characters because I am using my 5th slot specifically only for it's passive.

Note: Sorcerer's pets wouldn't count as a passive due to them requiring you to summon said pets.

But that's just me.

~Edit~

For context, think about skills like Magelight, Hunter, and Bound Armor... Skills which are pretty useless but they have an amazing passive that makes them worth having slotted.

rpa

Comment/Other

PC keyboard + mouse so I could do with more but I don't think design should be radically changed at this point. Can't comment on console / controller. Not wasting ability slots for passives / levelling skills could be nice of course.

DirkRavenclaw

No

Just look at the Mess in FFXIV for example. I played that a bit but ended up only using the first 4 odd skills over and over, getting annoyed and stopped very fast

msetten

Yes

I always wondered why they never thought of using one of the console’s L or R keys as a kind of a shift key. That way you could add a skill to the regular buttons (square, triangle, circle and other thre keys) and another three to those when that particular shift key is used. That would even give you possible 10 skills + ultimate.

redlink1979

No

It's functional as it is...

Why does it seems you need to have every skill slotted?

And how does this reflects the uniqueness of builds, so many times mentioned thru the forum, if everyone has the chance to have everything slotted?

Doesn't make much sense if you reflect seriously about it.

Essavias

Comment/Other

Technically - it can be done. But it shouldn't, due to reasons voiced above.

Although, I wouldn't mind 1 additional slot, but any skill slotted there would only give you the "slotted" benefit, without an ability to "activate" it.

Luede

Comment/Other

u have to made decisions because of limited slot space and in my opinion it is healthy for gameplay if u have to make decisions.

mague

Comment/Other

Possible ? yes
Needed ? No

I am happy with skills, ulti, block, LA, HA and bash

If at all, then just remove the slot restriction from ultimate and make it 10 12 equal slots. That would give me two slots if i dont want any ultimate.

Donny_Vito

Yes

mague wrote: »

Possible ? yes
Needed ? No

I am happy with skills, ulti, block, LA, HA and bash

If at all, then just remove the slot restriction from ultimate and make it 10 equal slots. That would give me two slots if i dont want any ultimate.

I actually like this idea. You shouldn't really be forced into slotting an ultimate if you don't want to. I guess, theoretically, you could just not slot one now but that is obviously not going to be a good idea if you can't slot a replacement skill instead.

themaddaedra

Question rather sounds like *can we turn this into one of those Korean mmos?* and i'd say no ty.

phaneub17_ESO

Comment/Other

PC players with gamepad have a lot more experimentation options available to them to play around with the whole control scheme and we obviously have the keyboard and mouse available too so we don't have to map out everything on the gamepad especially non-combat commands like auto run or opening the map. Those of us using the PS4 controller also have access to the Share button which I think its hard coded on console and can't be changed, but I'm not entirely sure as I don't have the console; I just like the controller's layout over Xbone.

This is my current setup, which could possibly be redone for console, but whatever...

Left and Right Trigger are hard coded, can't be changed as far as I know.
L1 = Sprint (you only need to tap it, no need to hold down)
R1 =Jump
L1 + R1 = Roll Dodge, if you don't have enough stamina you'll jump in that direction instead.
Square, Triangle, Circle, Direction Left, and Direction Right = action keys
X/Cross = interact
L1 + X/Cross = Use Synergy
Direction Up = scroll through quests
Direction Up Hold = Interact with Player
Direction Down = Ultimate
Direction Down Hold = Unused but is default to swapping First/Third person
Share Button = Use Quickslot
Share Button Hold = Open Quickslot wheel
L3 Press = Mount
L3 Hold = Crouch
R3 Press = Weapon Swap
R3 Hold = Weapon sheathe/unsheathe

There's also two hidden buttons on the touchpad on the left and right edges as well, I don't generally use them for anything, I think they're defaulted to Auto Run and Run/Walk toggle.

If there were more action keys available the Direction Left, Right, and Down Hold are currently unused and I could reconfigure the Touchpad's extra Left and Right edge buttons.

FierceSam

No

I use a controller on a PC and I’ve already run out of options for ultimates, bar swop, synergies, sprint that actually enable me to move in a fluid manner.

One other argument that I find quite effective is that only having 5 slots per bar forces players to make choices and that this is an important part of builds/gameplay. Being able to use all the skills I have access to would actually make everyone’s build effectively the same, which would be a bit bland.

Ideally I’d like a better designed controller, which I can then configure.

phaneub17_ESO

Comment/Other

Also, I would like to have at least one passive slot, it cannot be activated to use the skill but allows you to gain access to that skill's passive always active trait. There are a lot of skills that are simply meant to be slotted with mostly utility active effect.

Jabbs_Giggity

Yes

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

PC players with gamepad have a lot more experimentation options available to them to play around with the whole control scheme and we obviously have the keyboard and mouse available too so we don't have to map out everything on the gamepad especially non-combat commands like auto run or opening the map. Those of us using the PS4 controller also have access to the Share button which I think its hard coded on console and can't be changed, but I'm not entirely sure as I don't have the console; I just like the controller's layout over Xbone.

This is my current setup, which could possibly be redone for console, but whatever...

Left and Right Trigger are hard coded, can't be changed as far as I know.
L1 = Sprint (you only need to tap it, no need to hold down)
R1 =Jump
L1 + R1 = Roll Dodge, if you don't have enough stamina you'll jump in that direction instead.
Square, Triangle, Circle, Direction Left, and Direction Right = action keys
X/Cross = interact
L1 + X/Cross = Use Synergy
Direction Up = scroll through quests
Direction Up Hold = Interact with Player
Direction Down = Ultimate
Direction Down Hold = Unused but is default to swapping First/Third person
Share Button = Use Quickslot
Share Button Hold = Open Quickslot wheel
L3 Press = Mount
L3 Hold = Crouch
R3 Press = Weapon Swap
R3 Hold = Weapon sheathe/unsheathe

There's also two hidden buttons on the touchpad on the left and right edges as well, I don't generally use them for anything, I think they're defaulted to Auto Run and Run/Walk toggle.

If there were more action keys available the Direction Left, Right, and Down Hold are currently unused and I could reconfigure the Touchpad's extra Left and Right edge buttons.

To your point, I use an Elite controller which allows me to remap the defaults of a regular controller. However, in doing so I still have 4+ buttons/keys that are null because of ZOS's limited skill bar.

FierceSam wrote: »

I use a controller on a PC and I’ve already run out of options for ultimates, bar swop, synergies, sprint that actually enable me to move in a fluid manner.

One other argument that I find quite effective is that only having 5 slots per bar forces players to make choices and that this is an important part of builds/gameplay. Being able to use all the skills I have access to would actually make everyone’s build effectively the same, which would be a bit bland.

Ideally I’d like a better designed controller, which I can then configure.

This concept of forcing players to make choices is fine and dandy, in the first 5 years of ESO. The difference now is that ZOS is forcing you to choose between a decent combat rotation or a decent buff line.
Thanks to skill audits, many skills have been altered where key passives/buffs/debuffs have been eliminated or moved from one skill to another in order to make "other less desirable" skills more desirable. The problem now with redundancy in multiple skills is that you're not making a choice on how to play your character, you're making a choice on which choice will only hinder your potential less....because or limited skill slot space.

GreenhaloX

It's working for the MMO, Tera..

hasi

No

Can't imagine handling that many Skills on one bar with my Controller to be fair. My hands are pretty small, so I am already having a few issues right now.

So in all honesty I don't want to know how hard the elderly Players would have it then or the ones with a more or less stiff hand etc.