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Eso is bigger than all of us

simple_specops
simple_specops
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Hi guys, I enjoy reading the crying the moaning and the complaining just every one else, I have played the game since beta(first on PS4 then on PC) and nearly every patch the story is the same "you're killing the game" "I just cancelled my subscription" blah blah, don't get me wrong I think that customer's opinion is a very important point and a critical thing for every kind of enterprise, but unfortunately the devs team cannot phisically accommodate everyone's needs or request, balance is extremely hard if you try to have viable options in PvP and pve at the same time, personally I don't envy what Gilliam &co are going through atm, they're trying to make the game accessible for the newer players, and still challenging for veterans, but you cannot please everyone, so what I am trying to say is either play the GAME as it is or find something else (as I am doing), but no matter how hard we cry and protest on the forums or anywhere else it doesn't really matter because with MILLIONS of players the few hundred crying and shouting are not going to change much, after morrowind half of the raiding guilds just up and disappeared, and here we are 2 years down the line moaning and protesting, but guess what? In 2 more years guaranteed there's gonna be the se thing over again, why you ask? Because eso is bigger than all of us. So just enjoy the GAME for what it is, a way to kill a few hours a day and disconnect.
  • Nolic1
    Nolic1
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    Agreed.
    Sherman from Sherman's Gaming

    Youtube content creator that is dedicated to the Casual and Roleplay community for News, Lets Talks, Guides, Help and character builds.

    Youtube channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
  • Jodynn
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    Except sometimes they read the forums and sometimes they change things based on it and sometimes it does indeed have an impact look at stonefist and venom claw so many complaints from so many people

    Look at the pirate skeleton nerf after someone crying

    It does have impact it's just not always desired impact.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
    The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
  • BattleAxe
    BattleAxe
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    Hi guys, I enjoy reading the crying the moaning and the complaining just every one else, I have played the game since beta(first on PS4 then on PC) and nearly every patch the story is the same "you're killing the game" "I just cancelled my subscription" blah blah, don't get me wrong I think that customer's opinion is a very important point and a critical thing for every kind of enterprise, but unfortunately the devs team cannot phisically accommodate everyone's needs or request, balance is extremely hard if you try to have viable options in PvP and pve at the same time, personally I don't envy what Gilliam &co are going through atm, they're trying to make the game accessible for the newer players, and still challenging for veterans, but you cannot please everyone, so what I am trying to say is either play the GAME as it is or find something else (as I am doing), but no matter how hard we cry and protest on the forums or anywhere else it doesn't really matter because with MILLIONS of players the few hundred crying and shouting are not going to change much, after morrowind half of the raiding guilds just up and disappeared, and here we are 2 years down the line moaning and protesting, but guess what? In 2 more years guaranteed there's gonna be the se thing over again, why you ask? Because eso is bigger than all of us. So just enjoy the GAME for what it is, a way to kill a few hours a day and disconnect.

    This isn’t about me asking for this or you asking for that there are several pain points a majority of players are calling out that are not being addressed.

    Sustain is horrible due to cost increases
    Dots are falling below this goal of 33% weaker than live
    They are forcing a a skill on a class who has multiple times multiple threads complained about its cost it’s animation it’s clunky stacking mechanic.
    A skill that wasn’t even an op skill that players haven’t really even asked to be nerfed recieved a 50% nerf

    Every 3 months which is barely enough time to settle into a new build that build is uprooted or changed due to combat changes so now players have to grind out new gear learn new rotations. Players are finally getting sick of these rapmpant and wild swings In the dark for attempts at balance.

    You are right eso is bigger than all of us but that is thanks to all of us here fighting for the betterment of the game for everyone else.

    Trying to make the game accessible for newer players which kind of contradicts a previous statement of I believe it was casuals are not the target for combat changes yet it’s the casual/newer players who will feel these combat changes more so than the top percentage of players.
  • Arjuna1696
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    I like the spirit of what you're saying, and I do think that in nearly all games, communities tend heavily towards being overly critical and negative, and you hear absurd / dramatic / overly broad phrases like "ZOS hates X class" and whatnot. AND - as we saw between some of the pts cycles just recently - they devs can and do respond when there are sustained complaints regarding various changes. Voicing our opinions about the game is demonstrably relevant, we should just be reasonable in the way we do it. "Crying and shouting" describes a lot of people on forums, but not all. Those "crying and shouting" -should- calm down, but they shouldn't stop participating in the discussion.
    Arjúna | Wood Elf Stamina Warden | of the Undying Song | Flawless Conquerer
    Tangles-Up-In-Blue | Argonian Magicka Warden | Spirit Slayer | Flawless Conquerer
    Marcełine | Dark Elf Magicka Nightblade | Spirit Slayer | Flawless Conquerer
    Nausîcaä | Breton Magicka Templar | Spirit Slayer | Flawless Conquerer
  • jecks33
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    the game was perfectly balanced ultil some patch ago, between morrowind and elsweyr. Now Eso has taken a dangerous road where endgamers are not happy because their builds/toon are ruined and they have to rebuild every 3 months, mid-players that try to take a look to end game contents find them too hard (we completet vet hel ra at 350/400cp, vet SS and Vcr are quite impossible without more cps), quest-gamers are not happy because new chapters stories are wonderful but too short
    Edited by jecks33 on October 16, 2019 3:59PM
    PC-EU
  • GrimTheReaper45
    GrimTheReaper45
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    the game was accessible for new players 3 yrs ago. Now its just a lag filled mess with boring combat with nearly ever class sucking.

    And them nerfing *** to oblivion to help noobs is backwards. The game is harder for everyone, especially noobs, than ever before. Super rigid builds, shield nerfs, sustain nerfs, heal nerfs. There all things that hit noobs harder than the players at the top. Them dramatically changing combat every patch is also bad for new players. They spend all there time trying to improve and it never sticks.
  • idk
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    Constructive feedback does get Zos' attention and we have seen this time and time again in previous PTS cycles. However, the forums are also filled with rants and rages, especially during a PTS cycle and that type of "feedback' does not get Zos' attention since it tends to not provide worthwhile information.
  • The_Lex
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    I agree with you on principle.

    However, I will say that I've played less PvE in Scalebreaker than ever in the past. I just can't be bothered with completely changing my build every 3 months or so. Little changes, sure, but the pendulum keeps swinging too fast and hard for me.
  • daedalusAI
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    idk wrote: »
    Constructive feedback does get Zos' attention and we have seen this time and time again in previous PTS cycles. However, the forums are also filled with rants and rages, especially during a PTS cycle and that type of "feedback' does not get Zos' attention since it tends to not provide worthwhile information.

    You mean like the DoT scaling of U23 which went live in its over-the-top scaling regardless of all the feedback during its PTS?
  • SirAndy
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    Eso is bigger than all of us

    Dunno about that, in my head i'm much bigger than any video game ...
    icon22_2.gif

  • Veinblood1965
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    The_Lex wrote: »
    I agree with you on principle.

    However, I will say that I've played less PvE in Scalebreaker than ever in the past. I just can't be bothered with completely changing my build every 3 months or so. Little changes, sure, but the pendulum keeps swinging too fast and hard for me.

    That sums it up totally. I'd imagine that most PVE'ers are not happy with constantly changing rotation, gear etc. It would suck to gold out jewelry only to have to switch it out the next patch. It's why I unsubbed.
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    I will show Zos who is bigger.

    Eso is not the only Mmorpg, call it end ty.
  • JinMori
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    That is some big bs dude, there are some changes that are objectively bad, for both of the sides of the spectrum.

  • Wayshuba
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    what I am trying to say is either play the GAME as it is or find something else (as I am doing), but no matter how hard we cry and protest on the forums or anywhere else

    This is the big point of frustration - playing the game as it is. The thing is, the game is different every three months because of these wild swings from patch to patch. People would love to play the game AS IT IS, the problem is having a combat team that doesn't seem to understand these wild skill fluctuations from patch to patch every three months are actually hurting the retention in this game because the game changes so drastically every quarter.

    To the rest of your point, the other thing that sometimes happens in MMOs is you swing too far and you lose a good amount of players. That Elsweyr was 50% off less than six months after release and you are seeing more of the very limited (three day) offerings on CS items is a telling factor. Many people are also seeing a bigger drop off than normal in guild logins since the U23/U24 Patch Note fiasco.

    You see, thinking you will always have the millions is what gets MMOs in trouble. Here is a reality in the MMO market - usually once players move on, they rarely come back. They move to another MMO, put the effort in developing their characters there and don't look back.

    Honestly, with ZoS blowing up everyone's character development efforts every three months I don't think they realize that each time they make it easier for people to move on from ESO.

    Time will tell, but in the over 2.5 years I have been playing ESO, I have never seen the population in guild rosters, in common gathering areas like Vivec City crafting area, etc. look as barren as they do today. Even during this last event hunting dragons there were far less people taking them on than when Elsweyr launched.

    Your right, it is what it is - another MMO where the developers think they know better than their customers until their customers are gone.

    Edited by Wayshuba on October 16, 2019 6:16PM
  • Luckylancer
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    Tell this to end game community members that left the game. Game is still running because newer players come.

    And this is another perspective: I stopped paying the game after Morrowind scam. Horse *** class (magden) + useless pvp mode (turned usefull after became free). On top of that there are stupid balance changes + pvp lags + cannon fodder set releases + pay to win releases (zaan, relequen, olorime, jewel retraiting etc.).

    If there would be less lag, proper game balance and if they would respectcustomers by not selling useless stuff I could have subbed eso+ and bought expansions. They improve the game (transmute, costumes, home safe boxes) but my pain points are more important.
  • simple_specops
    simple_specops
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    I stopped paying the game after Morrowind scam. Horse *** class (magden) + useless pvp mode (turned usefull after became free). On top of that there are stupid balance changes + pvp lags + cannon fodder set releases + pay to win releases (zaan, relequen, olorime, jewel retraiting etc.).

    If there would be less lag, proper game balance and if they would respectcustomers by not selling useless stuff I could have subbed eso+ and bought expansions. They improve the game (transmute, costumes, home safe boxes) but my pain points are more important.

    So are mine, I made a Post few months ago asking for quality of life improvement rather than new content, I'm totally with you on the lag and most of all the morrowind scam (hype + call in the most followed + NDA + nerf sustain) when they released something not quite ready yet, but we've overcame that and BG isn't actually so bad now, so the sake of my post was let devs do their thing, and I'm sure one way or another the game will go on, and the ones that really like it will follow playing and I still log in and do bits and bobs and surely for the next few months I won't be doing any trials or any very hard stuff but that will give me time to appreciate the little things in the game from a sunset in Auridon to a little quest in eastmarch
  • simple_specops
    simple_specops
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    JinMori wrote: »
    That is some big bs dude, there are some changes that are objectively bad, for both of the sides of the spectrum.

    If they were to buff direct damage then everybody would be here crying that force pulse is too strong
  • sionIV
    sionIV
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    Hi guys, I enjoy reading the crying the moaning and the complaining just every one else, I have played the game since beta(first on PS4 then on PC) and nearly every patch the story is the same "you're killing the game" "I just cancelled my subscription" blah blah, don't get me wrong I think that customer's opinion is a very important point and a critical thing for every kind of enterprise, but unfortunately the devs team cannot phisically accommodate everyone's needs or request, balance is extremely hard if you try to have viable options in PvP and pve at the same time, personally I don't envy what Gilliam &co are going through atm, they're trying to make the game accessible for the newer players, and still challenging for veterans, but you cannot please everyone, so what I am trying to say is either play the GAME as it is or find something else (as I am doing), but no matter how hard we cry and protest on the forums or anywhere else it doesn't really matter because with MILLIONS of players the few hundred crying and shouting are not going to change much, after morrowind half of the raiding guilds just up and disappeared, and here we are 2 years down the line moaning and protesting, but guess what? In 2 more years guaranteed there's gonna be the se thing over again, why you ask? Because eso is bigger than all of us. So just enjoy the GAME for what it is, a way to kill a few hours a day and disconnect.

    If I got one Crown for each time I hear someone say that they've played since beta in either ESO or WoW, I would have every single rare item in the Crown Store. I find it surprising that WoW must have had over 5 000 000 people beta testing the game, and ZoS at least 2 000 000. Well, either that or people are just lying.

  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    Whether you engage constructive dialog or negative hyperbole, all feedback is relevant in that it provides an overall tenor to changes. Whether ZOS listens or not is another matter. Personally, I think they listen only so far as it doesn't conflict with goals we have no access to and they are not candid about.

    And no, ESO is not bigger than all of us. It's a damn game we can chose to play or not to play. In the grand scheme of things, my morning crap is more important.
  • karekiz
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    Agreed OP

    Lets bring back Shield cast times and remove PTS. I mean how dare alcast make a video saying the it looked like your character was taking a dump!?
    Edited by karekiz on October 17, 2019 12:32AM
  • Nordic__Knights
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    I stopped paying the game after Morrowind scam. Horse *** class (magden) + useless pvp mode (turned usefull after became free). On top of that there are stupid balance changes + pvp lags + cannon fodder set releases + pay to win releases (zaan, relequen, olorime, jewel retraiting etc.).

    If there would be less lag, proper game balance and if they would respectcustomers by not selling useless stuff I could have subbed eso+ and bought expansions. They improve the game (transmute, costumes, home safe boxes) but my pain points are more important.

    So are mine, I made a Post few months ago asking for quality of life improvement rather than new content, I'm totally with you on the lag and most of all the morrowind scam (hype + call in the most followed + NDA + nerf sustain) when they released something not quite ready yet, but we've overcame that and BG isn't actually so bad now, so the sake of my post was let devs do their thing, and I'm sure one way or another the game will go on, and the ones that really like it will follow playing and I still log in and do bits and bobs and surely for the next few months I won't be doing any trials or any very hard stuff but that will give me time to appreciate the little things in the game from a sunset in Auridon to a little quest in eastmarch

    Yeah with the in-game community feeling the same way all the new players don't get to run hard dungeons nor do they get to do trials kind of sucks for them hu. And once we go whos going to carry them along teach them builds teach them mechanics hell teach them where to place their cp as 85% dont even understand it they just see an popular game that they think is populated buy it but yet don't know *** about it and if the end game community leaves this game they won't know *** ever
    On any given day i HAVE to help 10+ players place cp players that are 100 cp to 560 even an few at 810 or make them appropriate gear because they don't have an understanding of any of it casual players are fined but it's just that they're casual they don't have an understanding of the game to the greater knowledge that a veteran player has and when you continuously just destroy the game for your veteran players how do you expect your casual or new players to ever learn it and if they can't learn the game they're not going to stay in the game it's easy as that
    Edited by Nordic__Knights on October 17, 2019 1:51AM
  • Strider__Roshin
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    I chose to play something else. I just keep track of updates in case they make this game worth playing again. Currently it's a no.
  • kojou
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    We are ESO...

    Obviously the forum community is a small subset of the player base, but the players are ESO. Without players there would be no game.

    That said, the forum community tend to be over dramatic, but even players at the most casual levels feel it when there are changes they don't like. The difference is they likely just go do something else when the game is no longer fun and they likely will not be bothered with making a forum post, because they are not that invested in it.

    My problem with the pendulum of nerfs is that I have a full time job and family, and I just want to come online and run trials or PvP with my friends. I would be perfectly content to use the same armor, same skills, and same builds for a long time. It means I get to do more of the content I like and less grinding content I don't like to get gear and level skills to keep up with the meta rat race.

    The extreme meta shifts will kill this game IMO. The stories are great, at times the combat has been great, but the roller coaster we have been on lately is just too much. I would have been content to keep the 1.5 era combat, but have all patches just focus on bug fixes and new DLCs and Chapters with only minor adjustments to combat when something is out of whack. I will give Wheeler and The Rogue until my sub expires at the beginning of next year to get it all worked out, but if we are still doing wild shifts and my trials guilds have all imploded then I will not be renewing it.
    Playing since beta...
  • fbours
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    To op, yes and no. We make the game, not the other way around, but at the end this is still a business and like all businesses their number one goal is to keep stakeholders happy, 101 business.

    There are good and bad decisions, and lack of direction and vision only make things worse, that's where ZOS is at the moment. Fortunately not at the level of wildstar or Diablo 3 when it first launched. Wildstar shutdown and Diablo 3 had to change their entire lead team, imagine that.

    Companies make mistakes.

    I have to say ZOS community is really loud compared to other communities I wonder why, possibly years of neglect and poor communication? but it also shows how passionate and loyal the fan base is which is really rare. ZOS needs to acknowledge that.
  • TheNightflame
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    I'm sorry but no
  • Nordic__Knights
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    fbours wrote: »
    To op, yes and no. We make the game, not the other way around, but at the end this is still a business and like all businesses their number one goal is to keep stakeholders happy, 101 business.

    There are good and bad decisions, and lack of direction and vision only make things worse, that's where ZOS is at the moment. Fortunately not at the level of wildstar or Diablo 3 when it first launched. Wildstar shutdown and Diablo 3 had to change their entire lead team, imagine that.

    Companies make mistakes.

    I have to say ZOS community is really loud compared to other communities I wonder why, possibly years of neglect and poor communication? but it also shows how passionate and loyal the fan base is which is really rare. ZOS needs to acknowledge that.

    You're 100% right if the community didn't give a *** about this game we wouldn't be saying *** we just leave it
    Been playing eso games all of them since arena dropped
    Edited by Nordic__Knights on October 17, 2019 7:56AM
  • Vanos444
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    idk wrote: »
    Zos' attention

    You act as if, they are the presidents or kings of kings that we have to bow down. lol!

    If they don't value players with their bs attitude. They will only lose more in the coming years....
    Edited by Vanos444 on October 17, 2019 8:15AM
  • joegall
    joegall
    Soul Shriven
    On the one hand you are right, but it is also true that within the game there are problems that have never been solved.
    That is, I adapt myself to everything, but here there are problems never solved.
    For example, there continues to be a huge imbalance between DK - Nightblade against others ... not good.
    Or it is time to remove the cleverness of the "cut animation", because it is not correct, it is only clever. It is not regular.
    The barons should be expelled, and although they may pretend that such people cannot exist in this forum or other users, they do exist.
    And I could go on forever.
  • holden_caulfield
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    Except sometimes they read the forums and sometimes they change things based on it and sometimes it does indeed have an impact look at stonefist and venom claw so many complaints from so many people

    Look at the pirate skeleton nerf after someone crying

    It does have impact it's just not always desired impact.

    I dont think they change things based on few forum users.
    It just happens sometimes that some opinion agrees with their data.
    And it should be like that. The opinion of some random player it is ALWAYS biased
  • holden_caulfield
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    Vanos444 wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Zos' attention

    You act as if, they are the presidents or kings of kings that we have to bow down. lol!

    If they don't value players with their bs attitude. They will only lose more in the coming years....

    Infact this game is packed. So are u right or them?
    I only know that I find players even behind the remotest rock of tamriel.
    And that My queue time for any activity is a minute or so.
This discussion has been closed.