Dear ZOS, please improve the sustain before going live. PTS v5.2.3

Girl_Number8

As the title says. Please listen to the feedback that you are getting on this topic. Thank you

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Dalsinthus

I agree. Sustain is OK right now but will be horrible next patch.

TheHsN

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I agree. Sustain is OK right now but will be horrible next patch.

For Stamina yes
But for magicka sustain is aweful

Suryoyo

Wise post

p00tx

Either improve sustain or provide a food that gives high mag plus health, plus mag sustain, and maybe doesn't work in Cyrodil since they're the reason we lost the max stats on drinks previously. Witch mothers is absolute garbage now and Clockwork isn't much better.

Donny_Vito

p00tx wrote: »

Either improve sustain or provide a food that gives high mag plus health, plus mag sustain, and maybe doesn't work in Cyrodil since they're the reason we lost the max stats on drinks previously. Witch mothers is absolute garbage now and Clockwork isn't much better.

Yeah, Witch Mothers is only used since people had a crap load of it stored and they're trying to get rid of it, but it seems that the Arteaum Pickled Fish Bowl is the way to go (and what a surprise, it's locked behind an expansion unless you pay for it already made). And Clockwork City Filet, what a joke now. For how expensive it is to make (Perfect Roe), you'd think it would be better than any purple food.

SeaUnicorn

Yes please. Reach dot added to my bar makes sustain worse.

Austinseph1

"Play how you want" means you CAN play it not that you SHOULD play it if you want to excel

Jodynn

I hate slotting spell symmetry.

Ramber

they say play as you want but mean play as you want as long as you slot X abilities and use Y food and .....

relentless_turnip

I really hope they do revisit this.

I feel although we are not 100% there, I do feel as though we were listened to during this patch cycle.
I have noticed a greater population in this game and I think feeling listened to has made the nerf's much easier to bear.

These cost increases are astronomical and without any explanation it is hard to understand what they are adding to the game.

Whose gameplay would be improved by being unable to do enough skills? or perhaps it will bring balance to classes in PVE?
Maybe not... Maybe PVP?

Just as an example if a MagDK was struggling to get in a raid group(I don't do PVE but heard this is a thing) because of his damage. Will they take him now he has sacrificed his damage to be able to sustain?

How about PVP? I didn't see many skills being overly spammed in a dot meta, which requires a single cast every 10 or so seconds. So I am even struggling to see where this data is coming from.

I think at the very least we should have an explanation.

MLGProPlayer

Sustaining isn't fun in this game with the twitcy, fast-paced combat.

You either have to interrupt your rotation with heavy attacks or stack sustain glyphs/food. The former ruins the flow of combat while the latter limits build diversity.

boaz733

got no sustain issues,
u will need to sacrifice dmg for more sustain.

nk125x

Agree with op

Galarthor

Mag sustain is terrible - especially in PvP. There is barely any fun in the fights anymore, b/c even with sustain set and sustain glyphs you are running out of magicka long before the fight can get interesting.

And at that point you either lie down and die if your opponent plays stamina. Or you both just dance circles around each other spamming heavy attacks and investing the gained magicka into a defensive ability to counter the damage you took while heavy attacking - and on and on it goes.

Those cost increases are aimed at PvE where they have 33% to 50% of the resource drain of PvP b/c they don't have to spam expensive defensive and CC tools. And while those changes may make sense for PvE, they wreak havoc in PvP.

The solution could be to add a Cost Reduction on abilities to Battle Spirit.

p00tx

Galarthor wrote: »

Mag sustain is terrible - especially in PvP. There is barely any fun in the fights anymore, b/c even with sustain set and sustain glyphs you are running out of magicka long before the fight can get interesting.

And at that point you either lie down and die if your opponent plays stamina. Or you both just dance circles around each other spamming heavy attacks and investing the gained magicka into a defensive ability to counter the damage you took while heavy attacking - and on and on it goes.

Those cost increases are aimed at PvE where they have 33% to 50% of the resource drain of PvP b/c they don't have to spam expensive defensive and CC tools. And while those changes may make sense for PvE, they wreak havoc in PvP.

The solution could be to add a Cost Reduction on abilities to Battle Spirit.

We still have to be able to keep up sustained, non-stop dmg on the boss while also proactively and reactively using shields and self heals, so we need sustain just as much. We just use resources in a much more fluid and regulated manner than we would in [bursty] PvP. This is going to hit us unnecessarily hard too. It's just bad all around.

Stibbons

Pretty terrible to play magic because you cannot cc break because sustains.

mikemacon

Sorry man.

You’re going to have to choose.

High output rotations with low sustain, or better sustain with either recovery glyphs or heavy attacks, or a combo thereof.

The devs are not going to let you have your cake and eat it, too.

Your main problem, IMO, is that you think heavy attacks “interrupt” your rotation.

Build them into it and you’ll do just fine.

Or... you’ll pine away for a solution that just ain’t gonna happen.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your choice.

Asys

mikemacon wrote: »

Sorry man.

You’re going to have to choose.

High output rotations with low sustain, or better sustain with either recovery glyphs or heavy attacks, or a combo thereof.

The devs are not going to let you have your cake and eat it, too.

Your main problem, IMO, is that you think heavy attacks “interrupt” your rotation.

Build them into it and you’ll do just fine.

Or... you’ll pine away for a solution that just ain’t gonna happen.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your choice.

Give this person a medal for speaking the truth

LiquidPony

mikemacon wrote: »

Sorry man.

You’re going to have to choose.

High output rotations with low sustain, or better sustain with either recovery glyphs or heavy attacks, or a combo thereof.

The devs are not going to let you have your cake and eat it, too.

Your main problem, IMO, is that you think heavy attacks “interrupt” your rotation.

Build them into it and you’ll do just fine.

Or... you’ll pine away for a solution that just ain’t gonna happen.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your choice.

You are a very wrong, very broken record.

Heavy attacks or other sustain compromises were briefly necessary after Morrowind.

Aside from that, in the entire history of the game, and including right now on live and right now on PTS, heavy attacks and sustain glyphs aren't necessary at all given that you are sufficiently skilled and playing with a good group.

IonicKai

mikemacon wrote: »

Sorry man.

You’re going to have to choose.

High output rotations with low sustain, or better sustain with either recovery glyphs or heavy attacks, or a combo thereof.

The devs are not going to let you have your cake and eat it, too.

Your main problem, IMO, is that you think heavy attacks “interrupt” your rotation.

Build them into it and you’ll do just fine.

Or... you’ll pine away for a solution that just ain’t gonna happen.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your choice.

My problem with this argument is that it doesn't proportionally affect skilled players and non-skilled players. Taken away sustain is meant to reign in high DPS but it just widens the gap between the floor and the ceiling when it comes to DPS. Players that are struggling to sustain now will be crushed if sustain becomes even harder. They will be playing "time to relearn the game again" and no one likes that. The best of players will take a small damage hit or sacrifice a little survivability but those trying to learn the game will get screwed.

Ozby

Sustain is already horrible on my High elf magcro and Breton magplar seriously doubt i will even touch them after this patch

NodIfYouCanHearMe

ZOS, please listen to the feedback your class reps are giving you regarding mag sustain in PvE. The disparity between mag and stam sustain in PvE is far from balanced, which is what you say you're striving for, and that's ON LIVE, before the proposed PTS skill cost increases. The testing I've done on the PTS with a magsorc LA rotation is not pretty. Having to HA while wearing Perfected False Gods AND using regen food is definitely not fun. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

XIIICaesar

Donny_Vito wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Either improve sustain or provide a food that gives high mag plus health, plus mag sustain, and maybe doesn't work in Cyrodil since they're the reason we lost the max stats on drinks previously. Witch mothers is absolute garbage now and Clockwork isn't much better.

Yeah, Witch Mothers is only used since people had a crap load of it stored and they're trying to get rid of it, but it seems that the Arteaum Pickled Fish Bowl is the way to go (and what a surprise, it's locked behind an expansion unless you pay for it already made). And Clockwork City Filet, what a joke now. For how expensive it is to make (Perfect Roe), you'd think it would be better than any purple food.

You can buy the psijic water logged sachels that contain the recipes from traders without having summerset j/s no paywall required

Hotdog_23

Yes please rollback the upcoming sustain nerfs. The game was not very fun after morrowind because of it. I almost quit because of it or at least for awhile.

I think the reason for it is because some YouTube videos show high damage with great sustain. The problem is that is on a single non-moving target. In actually group content you often have to fire off skills before the timer has run out causing more sustain issue's.

Plus us bottom feeders on console don't have nice actions duration reminders to show our buffs and debuffs so we sometimes cast early to make sure the buff has not fallen off in a ever changing battle situation in some group content.

Shantu

If these sustain issues go live, screw DPS and screw vet content. I think I'll just run HA builds on easy content. Even that sounds like more fun than dealing with incessant sustain issues.

Please remember, combat in this game isn't all about balancing mathematical formulas. It's supposed to be FUN. As anyone who has ever enjoyed combat in this game can tell you, fighting sustain issues is NOT fun. Now if you're abusing the system, I can understand. But a reasonable build and rotation should not have to fight the combat system itself.

Grandma

you know it's bad when being a breton with pFGD isn't even enough.