Don't be fooled but the 20% DoT buffs, its still over a 50% nerf from Live

Elsonso

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

dots should be nerfed 20-35% from live but cerainly not >50...

My years of observation suggest that players tend to over-react, so if the players say 20-35%, then 50% is probably getting closer to what it should be.

Taloros

lordrichter wrote: »

My years of observation suggest that players tend to over-react, so if the players say 20-35%, then 50% is probably getting closer to what it should be.

My years of observation suggest that ZOS developers tend to over-react. So, if the real need is for a nerf of maybe 10%, they'll do a 50% nerf and call it a 33% balancing attempt.

karekiz

lordrichter wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

dots should be nerfed 20-35% from live but cerainly not >50...

My years of observation suggest that players tend to over-react, so if the players say 20-35%, then 50% is probably getting closer to what it should be.

The whole reason they have to do this rebalance is because ZoS didn't listen to the playerbase when they said that DoTs should be toned down a tad in scalebreaker. It isn't the players fault that ZoS 180'd after actually have a decently balanced patched aside from Necro stacking.

Which btw is a ZoS issue. There was no way they didn't see that coming, but hey. Money is money.

katorga

So are dots back to where they were before zos went nuts buffing them
?

LiquidPony

katorga wrote: »

So are dots back to where they were before zos went nuts buffing them
?

No.

They are still significantly weaker than they were in Elsweyr.

SeaUnicorn

ErinM31 wrote: »

Well of course it’s still a nerf, but weren’t DoTs over-buffed this last patch, at least on some skills? It sounds like more of a balance has been found through testing and feedback on the PTS. There are probably still things that could be better and almost certainly much disagreement in on what those things are, etc., but that is the nature of things.

Some of targeted DOTs were over buffed, but ground DOT staples that everyone had on their bar (wall of elements, spear shards, winter revenge, volley and so on) were nerfed last patch and nerfed again this patch. So even your Elsweyr/Summerset spammable rotation has same loss of DPS. Which is not OK...

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

LiquidPony wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

So are dots back to where they were before zos went nuts buffing them
?

No.

They are still significantly weaker than they were in Elsweyr.

And cost more as well if I’m not mistaken.

Tannus15

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

So are dots back to where they were before zos went nuts buffing them
?

No.

They are still significantly weaker than they were in Elsweyr.

And cost more as well if I’m not mistaken.

the cost is worse than the dps nerf.
they are unusable as they are right now.

Zelos

They returned dots to roughly the same place before they were even buffed:) so last patch was a buff to them, this patch brings them back down to original values. So we really havent gotten anything new between the last 2 patches:). (except nerfs) so if they returned them back to normal what was the point of going through until now?... in the words of the lord fengrush, "Its part of the vision."

Bigevilpeter

Zelos wrote: »

They returned dots to roughly the same place before they were even buffed:) so last patch was a buff to them, this patch brings them back down to original values. So we really havent gotten anything new between the last 2 patches:). (except nerfs) so if they returned them back to normal what was the point of going through until now?... in the words of the lord fengrush, "Its part of the vision."

The Dots were not all buffed by 50% last patch, the only ones that got major buffs were soul trap and entropy etc. they rest were increased by like 33% or something around that at best and not everything was buffed.

This will be way less than before last patch

MartiniDaniels

Zelos wrote: »

They returned dots to roughly the same place before they were even buffed:) so last patch was a buff to them, this patch brings them back down to original values. So we really havent gotten anything new between the last 2 patches:). (except nerfs) so if they returned them back to normal what was the point of going through until now?... in the words of the lord fengrush, "Its part of the vision."

Man, are you trolling? just look at any tooltip. Damage is weaker then in U22, and cost... cost is exorbitant. In damage/cost ratio it is at the very least 30-40% nerf to ST dots and more then double nerf to aoe dots.

JusticeSouldier

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

i decided to calculate it for my twin slashes, they did around 23k damage over 10 secs, nerf that by 63% it drops to 8500, buff that by 33% (correction twin slashes get more than 20%) is around 11k.

So as you can see its more than 50% nerf from live. Poor people got so excited when they saw a 20% buff but its a trick dont be fooled

do u understand how bad is situation with dots at live?
Actually, first nerf was extremly big and didn't counted that most problem caused with 2 ranged dots which were added in Scalebreaker. Current changes are not very fine, but it can't be worse than on Live.
Simply can't be worse than.

Nerhesi

ErinM31 wrote: »

Well of course it’s still a nerf, but weren’t DoTs over-buffed this last patch, at least on some skills? It sounds like more of a balance has been found through testing and feedback on the PTS. There are probably still things that could be better and almost certainly much disagreement in on what those things are, etc., but that is the nature of things.

No - they were balanced last patch.

If you're dots aren't clearly out-damaging spammables, then there is literally no reason to put them on your bar. It's not "things that could be better" as if there is some mystery. DoTs aren't some new concept in games that ESO is fooling around with. You need them to do between 2.5-3.5 more damage depending on duration for them to take a slot up on your bar.

If someone can't kill you with multiple DoTs and sustained dps (no burst), then you've missed the mark. You have to have another way to kill players that isn't just CC-burst-ULT. Or else you will never have variety and different class identities people crave. Everyone will be yet another spammable single skill with a CC-ult combo.

TriangularChicken

I did some calculation my self because you can not trust the people on the forums (they are either too stupid or too noobie cause they don't want to lose their overpowered tool).

I was comparing % changes since Elsweyr:

Elsweyr drop (17th May):
Twin Slashes get tick increased but initial dmg decreased - overall DPS will remain the same - so I disregarded that change.

First big change was Scalebreaker (9th August):
Increased damage per tick by 37%.

Next time Patch Notes mention a change was first Dragonhold PTS Cycle (PTS v5.2.0 Notes - 16th September):
Decreased tick by 63%.

Last change was 2 days ago on PTS (PTS v5.2.3 Notes - 7th October):
Increased tick by 33%.


So let's do quick math. We assume a Twin Slashes tooltip of 20k.

Elsweyr:
20.000 * 1,37 = 27.400
PTS 5.2.0 (Dragonhold):
27.400 * 0,37 = 10.138
PTS 5.2.3 (Dragonhold):
10.138 * 1,33 = 13.484

To find out the % change since Elsweyr:
((13.484 / 20.000) - 1) * 100
= -32, 58% nerf since Elsweyr (the patch where DoTs were decent and when Entropy, Soul Trap and Destructive Reach didn't have such a high *** tooltip)

Oh and btw, you are right, it is a 50% decrease if you take Scalebreaker tooltips as a base and think that they were okay and healthy for the game, but then you are also a noob that wants to get carried by DoTs, l2p.

danno8

Jeezye wrote: »

Jesus christ just log on the freaking PTS, equip the same build as on live and check for tooltip values. Caluclating based on percetages in patch notes has never been valid as the math is off big time with this company.

Unless you show evidence from PTS and live clients your points are nothing but meaningless

Never use only tooltip values. Go to a dummy and test the actual damage. Tooltip values being inaccurate is inherent.

JusticeSouldier

Nerhesi wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

Well of course it’s still a nerf, but weren’t DoTs over-buffed this last patch, at least on some skills? It sounds like more of a balance has been found through testing and feedback on the PTS. There are probably still things that could be better and almost certainly much disagreement in on what those things are, etc., but that is the nature of things.

No - they were balanced last patch.

If you're dots aren't clearly out-damaging spammables, then there is literally no reason to put them on your bar. It's not "things that could be better" as if there is some mystery. DoTs aren't some new concept in games that ESO is fooling around with. You need them to do between 2.5-3.5 more damage depending on duration for them to take a slot up on your bar.

If someone can't kill you with multiple DoTs and sustained dps (no burst), then you've missed the mark. You have to have another way to kill players that isn't just CC-burst-ULT. Or else you will never have variety and different class identities people crave. Everyone will be yet another spammable single skill with a CC-ult combo.

You're right that multiple dots should provide more than instant casted skills spam.
But, dots were very overpowered even in Elsweyr (especially bleeds).
And in Scalebreaker their empowering more + adding2 ranged ones ruined PvP, especially in battlegrounds.
Actually i guess current pts values seems fair enouch.

Maybe soul trap and entropia can be nerfed more or reworked to give some buffs or debuffs instead.

Stibbons

No point to use pretty much of any dots in pvp or in wvw. Just slot direct damage skills. Well it will help the servers not to crash

LinearParadox

Nerhesi wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

Well of course it’s still a nerf, but weren’t DoTs over-buffed this last patch, at least on some skills? It sounds like more of a balance has been found through testing and feedback on the PTS. There are probably still things that could be better and almost certainly much disagreement in on what those things are, etc., but that is the nature of things.

No - they were balanced last patch.

If you're dots aren't clearly out-damaging spammables, then there is literally no reason to put them on your bar. It's not "things that could be better" as if there is some mystery. DoTs aren't some new concept in games that ESO is fooling around with. You need them to do between 2.5-3.5 more damage depending on duration for them to take a slot up on your bar.

If someone can't kill you with multiple DoTs and sustained dps (no burst), then you've missed the mark. You have to have another way to kill players that isn't just CC-burst-ULT. Or else you will never have variety and different class identities people crave. Everyone will be yet another spammable single skill with a CC-ult combo.

THIS OMFG so much this! I don't understand why people don't get this!
WHY do you think all PvP is the same cookie-cutter build of "CC-Burst-Ult"??? Because that's the only thing that works.
Builds that're DoT-focused are a joke in PvP (not counting this patch's overbuff) against anyone that remotely knows what they're doing. They're regularly purged or ignored while your opponent lines up their burst, explodes you, then casually heals through the remainder of your DoTs with no other pressure because you're DEAD.
Then people say "Where's my build diversity?" Well... half the sets are trash and half the skills are simply unusable... I wonder what people are going to go with.

(edited for typos)

JusticeSouldier

LinearParadox wrote: »

WHY do you think all PvP is the same cookie-cutter build of "CC-Burst-Ult"??? Because that's the only thing that works.

(edited for typos)

actually order to win is another: pressure>cc>burst>execute.
start of the fight with an cc in 80% of cases is a sign of not enouch experienced player or zergling.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed a handful of baiting comments. This is a reminder to remain civil when posting, as to not derail the thread with insults. Thank you.