5.2.3 looks fine but...

kalunte

Major vuln could apply only on last hit. it wont change a thing for pve, but for pvp, 8sec of major vuln is kinda overdeadly unless you can purge. it would be nice to have a way to escape from it and get punished hard if we dont manage to get out of the ult.

And perfect weapons sets could be added to maelstrom and master weapons with updated effects to better fit with the game.

see you guys.

KappaKid83

I really like the notes here but I also agree that Major Vuln after any hit for 8 seconds can be deadly in PVP without running a purge. That being said, most, if not all, groups run radiating regen stacks and purges on their magicka characters for group utility(sans bombers). It is really quite easy to purge it off in these cases so I think it is fine at this point, but that is just my opinion.

TheYKcid

We could definitely use Perfect versions of the old Arena weps.

The added stats to 3pc jewelry was a nice gesture, but it's nowhere near enough to bridge the stat deficit. Not to mention, it only helps double-bar arena weapon setups, which are really niche and suboptimal right now.

MentalxHammer

TheYKcid wrote: »

We could definitely use Perfect versions of the old Arena weps.

The added stats to 3pc jewelry was a nice gesture, but it's nowhere near enough to bridge the stat deficit. Not to mention, it only helps double-bar arena weapon setups, which are really niche and suboptimal right now.

They acknowledged they need to balance the old arena weapons around the perfected BRP 1 pieces when Murkmire came out, I just wonder whats the hold up on that change.

MentalxHammer

I agree 8 seconds major vuln will be ridiculous for pvp, should be 5 sec imo.

BattleAxe

MentalxHammer wrote: »

I agree 8 seconds major vuln will be ridiculous for pvp, should be 5 sec imo.

8 seconds but can only be reapplied after 20 seconds so 12 seconds after effect ends if left unpurged

Lazarus_Rising

So Necromancers needs to execute ult almost perfectly if they wanna have their ulti usefull in pvp and you want to nerf it still?

TheYKcid

MentalxHammer wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

We could definitely use Perfect versions of the old Arena weps.

The added stats to 3pc jewelry was a nice gesture, but it's nowhere near enough to bridge the stat deficit. Not to mention, it only helps double-bar arena weapon setups, which are really niche and suboptimal right now.

They acknowledged they need to balance the old arena weapons around the perfected BRP 1 pieces when Murkmire came out, I just wonder whats the hold up on that change.

Maybe if they weren't so busy buffing/nerfing DoTs back and forth every damn iteration...

olsborg

kalunte wrote: »

but for pvp, 8sec of major vuln is kinda overdeadly unless you can purge

Yes, agreed.

WrathOfInnos

olsborg wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

but for pvp, 8sec of major vuln is kinda overdeadly unless you can purge

Yes, agreed.

I doubt it will make much difference, you’ll either be dead within 5s or manage to disengage (shade, cloak, streak, etc.). The time from 5s to 8s is not really going to be the turning point for a fight.

MurderMostFoul

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

So Necromancers needs to execute ult almost perfectly if they wanna have their ulti usefull in pvp and you want to nerf it still?

Huh?

Drop ult, get major vulnerability on all targets in the area. It doesn't sound that hard to me.

kalunte

can't wait for added stats on perfected weapons... and perfect weapons for those who are only normal weaps right now.

i think the issue is that they'll have to create "normal" type of all master/maelstrom weaps and add them to the normal loot-table before turning all actual maelstrom/master weaps into perfects..

they could also keep their name normal but add the 1piece bonus

MartiniDaniels

I don't wanna comment on class skills, too much fuss to re-create ton of characters from scratch again. But:
- ridiculous cost of majority of aoe dots remained
- ZOS forgot to buff back dizzy and flurry, which were nerfed to "meet dot standarts"

Davadin

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

- ZOS forgot to buff back dizzy and flurry, which were nerfed to "meet dot standarts"

here's hoping 1 more patch on PTS before it goes live.

Bashev

Once this ulti is dropped in deathmatch BGs players dies as flies. I agree that 8 seconds is too strong.

Qbiken

Bashev wrote: »

Once this ulti is dropped in deathmatch BGs players dies as flies. I agree that 8 seconds is too strong.

Maybe people can actually die in BG´s instead of the current stalemates where no team reaches 100 points in deathmatches. I welcome the change, bring it on

MCBIZZLE300

5.2.3 looks good except dizzying swing hasnt had its stun restored.

Maulkin

5-6 seconds of Major Vuln would have sufficed for PvP, but it should never ever be on last hit only. It's a dodgeable aoe ability with a 1 second warning. You only need 1 dodge to get immunity to all the hits and therefore no-debuffs. Hardly anyone gets hit by the last hit.

If it was on the last hit only, I wouldn't slot this 225 cost ultimate for PvP even if it granted 80 seconds of Major Vuln. Never mind 8 seconds.

Scritchel

With the amount of major/minor protection, vitality, maim and simply blocking in pvp, 8 seconds is nothing.

Though leaving the ulti as is and just adding the cd on vauln wouldve been just fine imo and simpler.

Maulkin

Scritchel wrote: »

With the amount of major/minor protection, vitality, maim and simply blocking in pvp, 8 seconds is nothing.

Though leaving the ulti as is and just adding the cd on vauln wouldve been just fine imo and simpler.

Leaving the Maj Vuln duration at 3 secs and just adding the CD would have been fine, but increasing the duration is clearly better and very very welcome.

I think the way the skill currently is, it has too much disparity between PvP and PvE for a crucial class skill. And I'm not talking about the stacking of Necros. In PvE you'll get all 3 hits and 5 secs of Major Vuln total because enemies sit there and take it. In PvP you'll get 1 hit and only 3 seconds of Major Vuln if you're lucky. Standardising it to 5-6 seconds across the board, whether you land 1 or 3 hits is good for PvP.

Mag Necro in particular needed this buff. It's a class with no reliable hard CC, no reliable burst skill, no execute and no significant debuffs (Stam Necro has maj defile, Mag Necro has nada). It needs this ulti to be very strong for now.

kalunte

hum, 1 sec to react... reminds me DKs with their "dragon leap" with human reaction time around 300ms + eso latency + dodge animation you have hardly enough time to react to anything. in fact ppl mostly guess when bursts are about to land or spam their defensive skills or block frequently.

i'll personnaly deal with any colossus anyway, it's just that having major vuln on last hit would also help pve-ers to unleash their burst correctly with somehow 2/3 sec to react instead of none..

MartiniDaniels

Maulkin wrote: »

Scritchel wrote: »

With the amount of major/minor protection, vitality, maim and simply blocking in pvp, 8 seconds is nothing.

Though leaving the ulti as is and just adding the cd on vauln wouldve been just fine imo and simpler.

Leaving the Maj Vuln duration at 3 secs and just adding the CD would have been fine, but increasing the duration is clearly better and very very welcome.

I think the way the skill currently is, it has too much disparity between PvP and PvE for a crucial class skill. And I'm not talking about the stacking of Necros. In PvE you'll get all 3 hits and 5 secs of Major Vuln total because enemies sit there and take it. In PvP you'll get 1 hit and only 3 seconds of Major Vuln if you're lucky. Standardising it to 5-6 seconds across the board, whether you land 1 or 3 hits is good for PvP.

Mag Necro in particular needed this buff. It's a class with no reliable hard CC, no reliable burst skill, no execute and no significant debuffs (Stam Necro has maj defile, Mag Necro has nada). It needs this ulti to be very strong for now.

L - logic. "Onslaught is too OP, nerf it". Done. Then ZOS adds 8 seconds of +30% to damage by everybody on big aoe + big damage, while onslaught's penetration buff was giving ~same 30% but only to YOU. Here I'm not calling for colossus nerf or that Onslaught didn't needed some nerf, I don't understand logic about butchering onslaught from 12 to 5 seconds while necromancer's ultimate does literally the same, but with higher impact, without cast time and can't be nullified by timed dodge. Yeah, it is costly but impact is also MUCH higher. Now you may ask when you last time died in solo situations to colossus? yeah, quite rare, but necromancers are rare too. PVP wise ultimate was far more balanced, you received 1st hit, but can avoid consequent ones...

Maulkin

kalunte wrote: »

hum, 1 sec to react... reminds me DKs with their "dragon leap" with human reaction time around 300ms + eso latency + dodge animation you have hardly enough time to react to anything. in fact ppl mostly guess when bursts are about to land or spam their defensive skills or block frequently.

confused.jpg

300ms is not 1 sec, it's literally over 3 times more. It's not a 110 cost Dragon Leap, it's a 225 cost ult. I hardly ever get hit even by the first hit of Colossus. And asking for it to be on the last hit only, that's a full 3 seconds after the animation starts. That's unworkable for PvP, no one will ever get hit by it and you know it.

Lazarus_Rising

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

So Necromancers needs to execute ult almost perfectly if they wanna have their ulti usefull in pvp and you want to nerf it still?

Huh?

Drop ult, get major vulnerability on all targets in the area. It doesn't sound that hard to me.

Did you read this part even that it only applies on the last hit? In PVP it will be pretty hard to get the major vulnerability on someone who is not stupid. It must be perfectly executed with a plan otherwise everyone will run out of just dodge.

Edit: Sry did misread completelly. It's crazy strong now... wtf

MartiniDaniels

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

So Necromancers needs to execute ult almost perfectly if they wanna have their ulti usefull in pvp and you want to nerf it still?

Huh?

Drop ult, get major vulnerability on all targets in the area. It doesn't sound that hard to me.

Did you read this part even that it only applies on the last hit? In PVP it will be pretty hard to get the major vulnerability on someone who is not stupid. It must be perfectly executed with a plan otherwise everyone will run out of just dodge.

It was in 5.2.2. Now it will apply 8 seconds of major vulnerability on any hit but with 20 seconds cooldown.

Maulkin

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Scritchel wrote: »

With the amount of major/minor protection, vitality, maim and simply blocking in pvp, 8 seconds is nothing.

Though leaving the ulti as is and just adding the cd on vauln wouldve been just fine imo and simpler.

Leaving the Maj Vuln duration at 3 secs and just adding the CD would have been fine, but increasing the duration is clearly better and very very welcome.

I think the way the skill currently is, it has too much disparity between PvP and PvE for a crucial class skill. And I'm not talking about the stacking of Necros. In PvE you'll get all 3 hits and 5 secs of Major Vuln total because enemies sit there and take it. In PvP you'll get 1 hit and only 3 seconds of Major Vuln if you're lucky. Standardising it to 5-6 seconds across the board, whether you land 1 or 3 hits is good for PvP.

Mag Necro in particular needed this buff. It's a class with no reliable hard CC, no reliable burst skill, no execute and no significant debuffs (Stam Necro has maj defile, Mag Necro has nada). It needs this ulti to be very strong for now.

L - logic. "Onslaught is too OP, nerf it". Done. Then ZOS adds 8 seconds of +30% to damage by everybody on big aoe + big damage, while onslaught's penetration buff was giving ~same 30% but only to YOU. Here I'm not calling for colossus nerf or that Onslaught didn't needed some nerf, I don't understand logic about butchering onslaught from 12 to 5 seconds while necromancer's ultimate does literally the same, but with higher impact, without cast time and can't be nullified by timed dodge. Yeah, it is costly but impact is also MUCH higher. Now you may ask when you last time died in solo situations to colossus? yeah, quite rare, but necromancers are rare too. PVP wise ultimate was far more balanced, you received 1st hit, but can avoid consequent ones...

K - knowledge. It has no cast-time but it has a one second wind-up animation of a giant colossus spawning from the ground. And it can very much be nullified by a timed dodge. It's a dodgeable AoE. I do it all the time. And as you pointed out, you hardly ever die to a colossus in solo situations precisely because it's so hard to land and so easy to avoid. You need to have teammates with coordinated Permafrosts to even land it on anyone.

Yet still, I'm here saying that it should be nerfed to 5 or 6 secs.

MartiniDaniels

Maulkin wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Scritchel wrote: »

With the amount of major/minor protection, vitality, maim and simply blocking in pvp, 8 seconds is nothing.

Though leaving the ulti as is and just adding the cd on vauln wouldve been just fine imo and simpler.

Leaving the Maj Vuln duration at 3 secs and just adding the CD would have been fine, but increasing the duration is clearly better and very very welcome.

I think the way the skill currently is, it has too much disparity between PvP and PvE for a crucial class skill. And I'm not talking about the stacking of Necros. In PvE you'll get all 3 hits and 5 secs of Major Vuln total because enemies sit there and take it. In PvP you'll get 1 hit and only 3 seconds of Major Vuln if you're lucky. Standardising it to 5-6 seconds across the board, whether you land 1 or 3 hits is good for PvP.

Mag Necro in particular needed this buff. It's a class with no reliable hard CC, no reliable burst skill, no execute and no significant debuffs (Stam Necro has maj defile, Mag Necro has nada). It needs this ulti to be very strong for now.

L - logic. "Onslaught is too OP, nerf it". Done. Then ZOS adds 8 seconds of +30% to damage by everybody on big aoe + big damage, while onslaught's penetration buff was giving ~same 30% but only to YOU. Here I'm not calling for colossus nerf or that Onslaught didn't needed some nerf, I don't understand logic about butchering onslaught from 12 to 5 seconds while necromancer's ultimate does literally the same, but with higher impact, without cast time and can't be nullified by timed dodge. Yeah, it is costly but impact is also MUCH higher. Now you may ask when you last time died in solo situations to colossus? yeah, quite rare, but necromancers are rare too. PVP wise ultimate was far more balanced, you received 1st hit, but can avoid consequent ones...

K - knowledge. It has no cast-time but it has a one second wind-up animation of giant colossus spawning from the ground. And it can very much be nullified by a timed dodge. It's a dodgeable AoE. I do it all the time. And as you pointed out, you hardly ever die to a colossus in solo situations precisely because it's so hard to land and so easy to avoid. You need to have teammates with coordinated Permafrosts to even land it on anyone.

Yet still, I'm here saying that it should be nerfed to 5 or 6 secs.

As I said I'm not for colossus nerf. I don't understand reasoning behind nerfing Onslaught to 5 seconds in previous week and then buffing colossus to 8 seconds in next week. Same people, one week time difference.

Lazarus_Rising

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

So Necromancers needs to execute ult almost perfectly if they wanna have their ulti usefull in pvp and you want to nerf it still?

Huh?

Drop ult, get major vulnerability on all targets in the area. It doesn't sound that hard to me.

Did you read this part even that it only applies on the last hit? In PVP it will be pretty hard to get the major vulnerability on someone who is not stupid. It must be perfectly executed with a plan otherwise everyone will run out of just dodge.

It was in 5.2.2. Now it will apply 8 seconds of major vulnerability on any hit but with 20 seconds cooldown.

Frozen Colossus: The Major Vulnerability from this ability and its morphs now last 8 seconds after dealing any damage, rather than 3 seconds after the final smash. Enemies hit by Major Vulnerability cannot be affected again for 20 seconds after it applies, to prevent situations where this debuff could be kept up indefinitely by rotating an army of Necromancers.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

So Necromancers needs to execute ult almost perfectly if they wanna have their ulti usefull in pvp and you want to nerf it still?

Huh?

Drop ult, get major vulnerability on all targets in the area. It doesn't sound that hard to me.

Did you read this part even that it only applies on the last hit? In PVP it will be pretty hard to get the major vulnerability on someone who is not stupid. It must be perfectly executed with a plan otherwise everyone will run out of just dodge.

It was in 5.2.2. Now it will apply 8 seconds of major vulnerability on any hit but with 20 seconds cooldown.

Wow i did misread the change completelly. Thank you for clarifying. Wow this super strong now

InvictusApollo

Colossus is quite a hard Ultimate to balance. If we put Major Vulnerability on any hit except of the first one, then it will almost never proc in PvP for magnecro.
30% more damage seems high untill we realise that magicka necromancer has no reliable skills in PvP. Almost all of it's power comes from ultimates.

Stamina necromancer on the other hand can be a generic stamina character using weapon abilities.

My predictions are as follows:

1. Organized groups won't be touched by this buff, since they already run purge.
2. Zerggroups on the other hand will be easier to wipe. And I think that wee all can agree that this is a good thing.
3. Solo and small scalers will either purge or get similar incoming damage as if necromancer used Onslaught.
4. Miniballgroups (premades) in BGs will either purge or become a little more vulnerable. This is good for gameplay as everyone is complaining about them in BGs.

As you can see only zerglings will be significantly touched. And apart from situations when they stack (bridge, choke, breach), this Ultimate will affect only a handfull of them.

wheem_ESO

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Scritchel wrote: »

With the amount of major/minor protection, vitality, maim and simply blocking in pvp, 8 seconds is nothing.

Though leaving the ulti as is and just adding the cd on vauln wouldve been just fine imo and simpler.

Leaving the Maj Vuln duration at 3 secs and just adding the CD would have been fine, but increasing the duration is clearly better and very very welcome.

I think the way the skill currently is, it has too much disparity between PvP and PvE for a crucial class skill. And I'm not talking about the stacking of Necros. In PvE you'll get all 3 hits and 5 secs of Major Vuln total because enemies sit there and take it. In PvP you'll get 1 hit and only 3 seconds of Major Vuln if you're lucky. Standardising it to 5-6 seconds across the board, whether you land 1 or 3 hits is good for PvP.

Mag Necro in particular needed this buff. It's a class with no reliable hard CC, no reliable burst skill, no execute and no significant debuffs (Stam Necro has maj defile, Mag Necro has nada). It needs this ulti to be very strong for now.

L - logic. "Onslaught is too OP, nerf it". Done. Then ZOS adds 8 seconds of +30% to damage by everybody on big aoe + big damage, while onslaught's penetration buff was giving ~same 30% but only to YOU. Here I'm not calling for colossus nerf or that Onslaught didn't needed some nerf, I don't understand logic about butchering onslaught from 12 to 5 seconds while necromancer's ultimate does literally the same, but with higher impact, without cast time and can't be nullified by timed dodge. Yeah, it is costly but impact is also MUCH higher. Now you may ask when you last time died in solo situations to colossus? yeah, quite rare, but necromancers are rare too. PVP wise ultimate was far more balanced, you received 1st hit, but can avoid consequent ones...

K - knowledge. It has no cast-time but it has a one second wind-up animation of giant colossus spawning from the ground. And it can very much be nullified by a timed dodge. It's a dodgeable AoE. I do it all the time. And as you pointed out, you hardly ever die to a colossus in solo situations precisely because it's so hard to land and so easy to avoid. You need to have teammates with coordinated Permafrosts to even land it on anyone.

Yet still, I'm here saying that it should be nerfed to 5 or 6 secs.

As I said I'm not for colossus nerf. I don't understand reasoning behind nerfing Onslaught to 5 seconds in previous week and then buffing colossus to 8 seconds in next week. Same people, one week time difference.

Because Onslaught is significantly cheaper, does vastly more damage, and is much more difficult to avoid. The only time I ever take damage from a Colossus in BGs is if I lag or eat a well-timed CC. And even if I get CC'd properly, I can still virtually always break free and dodge roll (or just plain move) and only eat a single tick of the damage...which will do far less than Onslaught does. Other than that, the penetration from Onslaught isn't subject to either getting cleansed, or not applying to a target that wasn't hit by the initial ultimate.

Frankly, for small scale PvP, Onslaught is still generally going to be superior to the Colossus, especially against teams with a lot of available cleansing. It's possible that 8 seconds of Major Vulnerability will be too strong in certain situations (ie, against unorganized teams that don't have cross healing or support), but too easily hard-countered in other situations. Still, it's far better than it was prior to this PTS patch, since only applying on the third hit essentially means that it doesn't apply at all in PvP.

Vapirko

+1 for 8 seconds is too much. We just needed Onslaught to 5 seconds which seems like an appropriate amount.