Do you like heavy attacks to be able to sustain?

Swiftnoodle

Don't care - I quit

ErinM31 wrote: »

Swiftnoodle wrote: »

First I wanted to choose "H*LL NO!" but then I realised
there is no way of sustaining an active, fast and fun gameplay anymore.
All the time switching bars, maintaining different buffs, short duration abilities ...
every couple of seconds...
Combat feels more like managing than game play. It's a chore. Tedious and clunky.
Action-combat in ESO? my *ss!

Enough is enough

edit: a lot of this is because of the awful UI. (targeting? Ugh!)

Every MMORPG I’ve played has this aspect and you don’t have to micromanage it but of course those who do best will have gotten this timing down. I have never been the best at that but I think it’s good to have levels of complexity and things people can work on in fights once they’ve gotten the basic mechanics down and aren’t dying.

At least there are no cool downs on skills and weapon swap!!! I don’t miss that and much prefer a system where I can use what abilities I want so long as I have the resources.

I do agree that a way to select targets would be ideal, or at least a way to prevent me from targeting the pets / summons of my own group! I’m sure they’re targetable for PvP but it seems a needless frustration when they’re your allies, as in PvE.

I agree with some of your points. Quite a lot of MMOs have it similiar with the micromanagement.
And challenges are needed and good for interesting gameplay. If combat is simple it can become boring very quickly.
The devil is in the details - how everything synergises and work together (combos). But some mechanics just don't fit.
Like playing fast with quick reflexes, weaving, ani-canceling, doing lots of stuff fast (esp. during vet trials) and then
heeeeeeaaaaaaavyyyyyyy attack.
I admit I just hate that: In the exact moment, where you can't afford to be slow, you need to s l o w l y HA!
That's where the pain is. I guess the min-maxing-mindset kills a lot of the fun (for me). Sometimes.

Swiftnoodle

Don't care - I quit

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

I've always used them. I don't understand what the big deal is about it, honestly.

I find the entire idea of restoring resources through heavy attacking to be weird on general principle, granted. It feels like the system was designed backwards - light attacks should do little damage and restore resources while heavy attacks should do heavy damage and perhaps even consume resources. I mean, those heavy attacks look like they take a lot of effort for our characters. Why are they restoring resources? The light attacks in contrast look pretty easy like our characters are taking a bit of a breather.

They feel clunky. The game is designed around twitch casting abilities and animation cancelling. Channelling attacks feels out of place and disrupts your rotation.

YES. That's exactly the problem!

Suryoyo

No

Too slow, it looks stupid, not fun, it's boring. It breaks the flow/dynamism/pace of a fight, like a cast time.
Plus the way *it's animated it's like the character is using its last pool of energy** to deal a heavy damaging blow...

SeaUnicorn

No

Swiftnoodle wrote: »

Like playing fast with quick reflexes, weaving, ani-canceling, doing lots of stuff fast (esp. during vet trials) and then
heeeeeeaaaaaaavyyyyyyy attack.
I admit I just hate that: In the exact moment, where you can't afford to be slow, you need to s l o w l y HA!

If only HA would fit into 1GCD I would not hate it all that much.

echo2omega

No

The heavy attack meta was awful.
Combat was slow and boring.
Was just not fun at all.

Mayrael

Indifferent

I've adapted and I use them when needed, but TBH would be nice to have heavy staff attacks as fast as stamina weapons.

MehrunesFlagon

No

Hate them,always have and always will.

max_only

Indifferent

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

They add another element to combat which I appreciate. But the melee ones could benefit from a lock-on feature or something to reduce whiffing, something ranged doesn’t need to worry about nearly as much.

I didn’t consider this when I voted. When it misses it feels bad.

As for sustain, until I get opposite resource Siphoning Attacks back in the game I could care less.

UntilValhalla13

No

It breaks up the alleged fast paced combat that we're supposed to have.

*Charges heavy*
One, one thousand, two, one thousand*

Zzzzz

Girl_Number8

No

It makes for boring and uninspired gameplay. It is an unwise direction to go with all the bad decisions that Zos has recently put into the game.

ThePedge

Don't understand the question, do I like that HA give back resources for sustain? yes.

DoonerSeraph

No

No. Only as a tank. As a DPS I want to use my character skills to deal damage, we invested xp and skill points in those for a reason

Barbaran

Yes

Speaking as from a PvP perspective.
Having to use heavy attacks is actually part of a skill gap that lots of people still want.
It separates the good players from the bad.
Sounds like a bunch of people not wanting to have to worry about resources and just be able to spam attacks,shields,block and dodging infinitely.

Asardes

No

On 2W it isn't so bad, since they're quick, 1.1s vs. skill cooldown which is ~0.9s AFAIK so , but with 2H or Staff they're really clunky.

LadyNalcarya

No

It never made much sense to me that heavy attacks restore resources. Ok, resto/lightning staff channel can be justified because its magic, but with stamina weapons its just silly.

Noisivid

No

In My Opinion tying resource sustain to heavy or light attacks was a bad idea from the start. Again In My Opinion.

Are you running a magicka build, I suppose you'd better equip a staff for the sustain...
and it can be a bit clunky feeling in a rotation

Can I run 2hand or sword and board on a mag build? Yes, why yes I can indeed.

Is it sub-optimal? You-betcha!!! ('ceptin of course for tank builds)

Do I want to drag down the groups I run with? No, not really.

Not to mention the idea that winding up and smacking something with a battle axe would leave me feeling refreshed and not wear me out faster is just absurd. (yes, I know this is not a reality simulator. but still...)

p.s. ask me about the removal of soft-caps

p.p.s. I suppose I could run a super-duper high regen build but that has serious trade-offs.

GrimTheReaper45

No

Heavy attacking as a mag user is awful. In general heavy attacks from staffs feels extremely slow. Fire staff is the most popular and viable staff, it has the added bonus of being extremely dodgable. Lighting and resto dont really have that problem but they honestly they feel even slower and more painful than fire staff heavy attacks and just dont fit into rotations well.

I dont really have a good solution to propose for how to fix heavy attacks but I really would love to see them massively overhauled. I think its good that we do have a way to get back resources but heavy attacking in its current form should not be the main source of sustaining.

kathandira

No

Noisivid wrote: »

In My Opinion tying resource sustain to heavy or light attacks was a bad idea from the start. Again In My Opinion.

Are you running a magicka build, I suppose you'd better equip a staff for the sustain...
and it can be a bit clunky feeling in a rotation

Can I run 2hand or sword and board on a mag build? Yes, why yes I can indeed.

Is it sub-optimal? You-betcha!!! ('ceptin of course for tank builds)

Do I want to drag down the groups I run with? No, not really.

Not to mention the idea that winding up and smacking something with a battle axe would leave me feeling refreshed and not wear me out faster is just absurd. (yes, I know this is not a reality simulator. but still...)

p.s. ask me about the removal of soft-caps

p.p.s. I suppose I could run a super-duper high regen build but that has serious trade-offs.

To make it more realistic, or at least make more sense i'd suggest a resign to the way Regen works. Though this wouldn't be a better option DPS wise than a Heavy attack.

How does one drain their stamina in real life? Performing a strenuous activity. How does one restore stamina in real life? They rest.

So in ESO, rather than simply having slower regen rates in combat, i'd propose that the slowed regen rates only happen for 2 seconds after an action. So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s. At least at this, if you take a moment to not cast any skills, you will recover more of your resource. It would still slow combat down, but at least it is a better source of recovery than the clunky and unrealistic way Heavy attacks restore resources.

HowlKimchi

Yes

From a PVP perspective, yes.

It's a valid and unique playstyle.

BooPerScOOper

People have damn short memories...

Szende

Yes

Depends on your skills, its good or bad. So yes, i like it

kathandira

No

kathandira wrote: »

Noisivid wrote: »

In My Opinion tying resource sustain to heavy or light attacks was a bad idea from the start. Again In My Opinion.

Are you running a magicka build, I suppose you'd better equip a staff for the sustain...
and it can be a bit clunky feeling in a rotation

Can I run 2hand or sword and board on a mag build? Yes, why yes I can indeed.

Is it sub-optimal? You-betcha!!! ('ceptin of course for tank builds)

Do I want to drag down the groups I run with? No, not really.

Not to mention the idea that winding up and smacking something with a battle axe would leave me feeling refreshed and not wear me out faster is just absurd. (yes, I know this is not a reality simulator. but still...)

p.s. ask me about the removal of soft-caps

p.p.s. I suppose I could run a super-duper high regen build but that has serious trade-offs.

To make it more realistic, or at least make more sense i'd suggest a resign to the way Regen works. Though this wouldn't be a better option DPS wise than a Heavy attack.

How does one drain their stamina in real life? Performing a strenuous activity. How does one restore stamina in real life? They rest.

So in ESO, rather than simply having slower regen rates in combat, i'd propose that the slowed regen rates only happen for 2 seconds after an action. So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s. At least at this, if you take a moment to not cast any skills, you will recover more of your resource. It would still slow combat down, but at least it is a better source of recovery than the clunky and unrealistic way Heavy attacks restore resources.

Additionally, Since Heavy Attacks would no longer be the source for Regen with the above idea, i'd redesign Light and Heavy Attacks.

They would not count towards the Ability Activation precursor to the 2s Regen limitation. They would be free abilities as they are now.

Light Attacks - Enchantment applies 50% of the time at 50% strength
Heavy Attacks - Enchantment applies 100% of the time at 100% strength.

idk

Indifferent

I do what needs to be done to have solid dps. It is that simple.

SeaUnicorn

No

kathandira wrote: »

To make it more realistic, or at least make more sense i'd suggest a resign to the way Regen works. Though this wouldn't be a better option DPS wise than a Heavy attack.

How does one drain their stamina in real life? Performing a strenuous activity. How does one restore stamina in real life? They rest.

So in ESO, rather than simply having slower regen rates in combat, i'd propose that the slowed regen rates only happen for 2 seconds after an action. So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s. At least at this, if you take a moment to not cast any skills, you will recover more of your resource. It would still slow combat down, but at least it is a better source of recovery than the clunky and unrealistic way Heavy attacks restore resources.

That is already in place, your recovery ticks faster out of combat than in combat.

SeaUnicorn

No

idk wrote: »

I do what needs to be done to have solid dps. It is that simple.

Given that your overall dps output is equal would you rather have heavy attacks in your rotation or no? Do you like the mechanic of heavy attack itself?

Shantu

No

It's one thing if you're abusing the system by spamming a high cost still. But a good build and skill rotation should not have to be dealing with sustain issues. It's just bad game design. Let us have some fun without annoyingly useless combat limitations interfering.

kathandira

No

slofwnd wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

To make it more realistic, or at least make more sense i'd suggest a resign to the way Regen works. Though this wouldn't be a better option DPS wise than a Heavy attack.

How does one drain their stamina in real life? Performing a strenuous activity. How does one restore stamina in real life? They rest.

So in ESO, rather than simply having slower regen rates in combat, i'd propose that the slowed regen rates only happen for 2 seconds after an action. So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s. At least at this, if you take a moment to not cast any skills, you will recover more of your resource. It would still slow combat down, but at least it is a better source of recovery than the clunky and unrealistic way Heavy attacks restore resources.

That is already in place, your recovery ticks faster out of combat than in combat.

You misread. I'm talking about IN combat.

"So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s"

SeaUnicorn

No

kathandira wrote: »

slofwnd wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

To make it more realistic, or at least make more sense i'd suggest a resign to the way Regen works. Though this wouldn't be a better option DPS wise than a Heavy attack.

How does one drain their stamina in real life? Performing a strenuous activity. How does one restore stamina in real life? They rest.

So in ESO, rather than simply having slower regen rates in combat, i'd propose that the slowed regen rates only happen for 2 seconds after an action. So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s. At least at this, if you take a moment to not cast any skills, you will recover more of your resource. It would still slow combat down, but at least it is a better source of recovery than the clunky and unrealistic way Heavy attacks restore resources.

That is already in place, your recovery ticks faster out of combat than in combat.

You misread. I'm talking about IN combat.

"So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s"

Why would you want to make it more convoluted?
Your proposal makes combat is even worse than having to heavy attack, because one would have to stop and do nothing to get faster recovery. No DPS ever would want to do that...
Breaks in PVE rotations of any sort are just clunky and feel horrible. GCD is set to 1s hence and I should be able to smoothly perform an action every second, it's that simple.
And I don't want to heaaaaavyyyy atttaaaack or stand there and look pretty...

kathandira

No

slofwnd wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

slofwnd wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

To make it more realistic, or at least make more sense i'd suggest a resign to the way Regen works. Though this wouldn't be a better option DPS wise than a Heavy attack.

How does one drain their stamina in real life? Performing a strenuous activity. How does one restore stamina in real life? They rest.

So in ESO, rather than simply having slower regen rates in combat, i'd propose that the slowed regen rates only happen for 2 seconds after an action. So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s. At least at this, if you take a moment to not cast any skills, you will recover more of your resource. It would still slow combat down, but at least it is a better source of recovery than the clunky and unrealistic way Heavy attacks restore resources.

That is already in place, your recovery ticks faster out of combat than in combat.

You misread. I'm talking about IN combat.

"So for example, you activate an ability, your regen rate is Regen/2s, after the 2 seconds has elapsed, your recovery is at Regen/1s"

Why would you want to make it more convoluted?
Your proposal makes combat is even worse than having to heavy attack, because one would have to stop and do nothing to get faster recovery. No DPS ever would want to do that...
Breaks in PVE rotations of any sort are just clunky and feel horrible. GCD is set to 1s hence and I should be able to smoothly perform an action every second, it's that simple.
And I don't want to heaaaaavyyyy atttaaaack or stand there and look pretty...

That was in my second sentence "Though this wouldn't be a better option DPS wise than a Heavy attack." ; )

Also in a later sentence, " It would still slow combat down, but at least it is a better source of recovery than the clunky and unrealistic way Heavy attacks restore resources."

There is a time and place that this is a benefit though. When bosses teleport, during phase transitions, or moving between areas while in combat.

iRaivyne

Are you asking if we like "relying on heavy attacks to sustain", or are you asking if we like "being able to sustain off of a heavy attack?" These are two very different questions.

No to the first, yes to the second.