Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [IN PROGRESS] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

Group play over performance

  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sahidom wrote: »
    Hm, radical thought. Earned AP = AP Award / (Group No. + Non-Group No.**)

    ** Group No. and Non-Group No. whose engaged in combat with AP qualified player/target or PVP content activity.

    When you hurt the player's pocket book, sometimes player habits change. Again, it's a radical thought.

    ESO already splits D-ticks and the "extra" AP from an O-tick over the flat value between all the players on the tick list. Same for the AP from player deaths. About the only change you could make would be lowering the flat value of capturing objectives to somehow split it between the players on the tick list.
  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it would be massively helpful to remove battle resurrection in PVP. As people die they would have to respawn elsewhere rather than be instantly rezed and back to spamming. Not to mention you should be punished for dying in a game rather than drop your intense Bomb then res and drop it again. No need to spec for survival with instant rez

    It would be good if you could force a rez after 10 seconds that takes them back to the Alliance base camps.
  • Alienoutlaw
    Alienoutlaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    the lag is like a spider sense now i can "feel" the zerg coming long before it gets to and the closer the get the worse the game gets gives my guild chance to get out the way though
  • Sahidom
    Sahidom
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sahidom wrote: »
    Hm, radical thought. Earned AP = AP Award / (Group No. + Non-Group No.**)

    ** Group No. and Non-Group No. whose engaged in combat with AP qualified player/target or PVP content activity.

    When you hurt the player's pocket book, sometimes player habits change. Again, it's a radical thought.

    ESO already splits D-ticks and the "extra" AP from an O-tick over the flat value between all the players on the tick list. Same for the AP from player deaths. About the only change you could make would be lowering the flat value of capturing objectives to somehow split it between the players on the tick list.

    It's demonstrated in-game when an activity does not provide same quantified results than players usually adjust their focus to regain their gains. So, when 24+ players receive the D/Capture AP tick or Player AP kill tick, then you need to seriously dilute the AP gain where it's marginal AP earnings. Afterwards, you will have the same faction player groups fighting over AP worthy objectives to avoid such dilution of the AP award. Player AP kill ticks would be too diluted to be worth farming in their large group. This extreme incentive would incur a same-faction competition and plausibly redistribute how Emperors status are earned; considering large group play yields less than small group play (risk versus reward)
  • itscompton
    itscompton
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rungar wrote: »
    they went the wrong way with the weapons. Instead the server should predict too many players clustering together and drop bosses who are wielding the weapons to clean out some of the crew.

    that being said it would be my preference if the group/raid frames were disables in cyrodiil. It would just be a bit more chaotic which is what i think they want.

    I've always thought it would be a great idea to have Molag Bal take notice when any of the 3 armies gathers a high number of soldiers in one place causing him to unleash his own forces on them.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Cyrodiik is designed for large scale AvAvA warfare.

    Cyrodiil is clearly a failure. AS you said its designed for large scale zerg v zerg fights, and that is exactly why Its not as popular as it should be. Zerg V Zerg in this game is boring, it kills the server, it kills the importance of individual skill expression, It kills strategy, it kills performance....

    in a nutshell, zerging kills the game.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on October 1, 2019 7:15PM
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I don’t think group size has anything to do with lag. My hunch is it’s related to outfits and characters rendering on the screen.

    Crashes always happen when all 200 players in a faction show up in one place. Loading all those haircuts, dyes and outfits is too much strain and the server goes kaput.

    Rather than focusing on group size they should focus on changing the objectives so people spread out. Maybe get rid of the faction keeps and make them all equal value, I’m not sure what can be done. Just something to stabilize the servers until engineers have cleaned up the coding with crayons ESO was written with.

    Their outlook was Q2 2020 for major fixes, if they’re at all serious about fixing performance they’re already working on it. If that’s when they’re hiring people... forget any fixes until 2021.
    Edited by Iskiab on October 3, 2019 3:37AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • ZarkingFrued
    ZarkingFrued
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread certainly shows the bias against solo players. We are hated for wanting skilled gameplay, that requires you to react to something like a 10k hit
    I think it would be massively helpful to remove battle resurrection in PVP. As people die they would have to respawn elsewhere rather than be instantly rezed and back to spamming. Not to mention you should be punished for dying in a game rather than drop your intense Bomb then res and drop it again. No need to spec for survival with instant rez

    I dunno about you, but I'd be pretty pissed with a groupmate who constantly needed to be battle rezzed because they werent paying attention to their survival. Against an enemy that knows what they are doing, battle rezzes are tricky to pull off and leave the rezzers very vulnerable.

    Now, if the enemy isn't properly pressuring the rezzers and lets me get off battle rezzes without a hitch, I'd say that's on the enemy. Having to battle rez means mistakes were made. Its the job of the enemy to punish mistakes, and if they don't manage that, I don't think they have many grounds to complain. Battles in Cyrodiil aren't just about killing players once and done.

    Currently
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grouping is way to overpowered. There is zero downside to grouping up with 24 players, and running over any solo or small groups found. This isnt gameplay, this is player griefing. Max group size should be cut down to 6-12 at most. 24 man groups meeting up are the rather obvious culprit for bad Cyrodiil lag. Rather than promote this type of gameplay, Zos should promote smaller groups to keep the lag down, and to encourage players to use skills to play rather than charging over people like a stampede spamming two or 3 buttons. Pvp grouping should have some sort of debuff, or simply lose the positive sides of the current standard PVP buff.

    Pro tip- if your small group thinks theyre not good enough to fight a 24 man group, you have options (1) run away (2) jump off the bridge into the water.

    Eso cyrodiil was marketed as largescale siege warfare. If you dont like it dont play it!

    Dont come to the forums demanding nerfs and/or debuffs to other players because theyre not playing the way you want them to play.

    Pvp in this game enables so much douchebaggery dont bring it to the forums!

    PVP players are allowed to post on the forums as well. I have made no demands. I'm stating what I think based on my observations. Please stop regurgitating what everyone else says when they read forum posts that upset them.

    "Max group size [should] be cutdown to 6-12 at most" then you go on calling for a nerf. You used the word should 3 times, should~verb, used to indicate obligation,duty or correctness typically when criticizing someones actions. You made a demand. You want the devs to nerf the playstyle that most paying customers take part in.

    And lets say your nerf came to fruition, groups are cut down to 6-12. Thats what you called for, whats going to stop 2-4, 6-12 man sized groups running with each other? Not only will their playstyle not be deterred but they will also capture their goal objectives.

    You could also start changing how heals work so only certain heals work on people not in the group, that should help so 1 person doesn't throw down 1 heal and heal 20 different people from it. No wonder the server turns so bad.

    Might actually encourage zergling to use more than 2 skills and convince them to learn to self sustain their heals a bit instead of relying on the 200 off heals flying around by people not even looking at them.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • fred4
    fred4
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Grouping is way to overpowered. There is zero downside to grouping up with 24 players, and running over any solo or small groups found.
    It's the same as in a schoolyard. It's also the same as running into an enemy hornet's nest in a real war, I imagine. This is not a fair game, but it mirrors real life well enough, IMO.

    I find the zero satisfaction I get from zerging a real downside, although there are shades of grey. You can only kill some of the better or tankier players by cornering them with help. At the end of the day I play for my faction and try to help in the alliance war. I've no problem with zerging in service of that.

    If you want to play solo, the easy answer is to play a nightblade or at least a sorc.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • BNOC
    BNOC
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grouping is way to overpowered. There is zero downside to grouping up with 24 players, and running over any solo or small groups found. This isnt gameplay, this is player griefing. Max group size should be cut down to 6-12 at most. 24 man groups meeting up are the rather obvious culprit for bad Cyrodiil lag. Rather than promote this type of gameplay, Zos should promote smaller groups to keep the lag down, and to encourage players to use skills to play rather than charging over people like a stampede spamming two or 3 buttons. Pvp grouping should have some sort of debuff, or simply lose the positive sides of the current standard PVP buff.

    Pro tip- if your small group thinks theyre not good enough to fight a 24 man group, you have options (1) run away (2) jump off the bridge into the water.

    Eso cyrodiil was marketed as largescale siege warfare. If you dont like it dont play it!

    Dont come to the forums demanding nerfs and/or debuffs to other players because theyre not playing the way you want them to play.

    Pvp in this game enables so much douchebaggery dont bring it to the forums!

    PVP players are allowed to post on the forums as well. I have made no demands. I'm stating what I think based on my observations. Please stop regurgitating what everyone else says when they read forum posts that upset them.

    "Max group size [should] be cutdown to 6-12 at most" then you go on calling for a nerf. You used the word should 3 times, should~verb, used to indicate obligation,duty or correctness typically when criticizing someones actions. You made a demand. You want the devs to nerf the playstyle that most paying customers take part in.

    And lets say your nerf came to fruition, groups are cut down to 6-12. Thats what you called for, whats going to stop 2-4, 6-12 man sized groups running with each other? Not only will their playstyle not be deterred but they will also capture their goal objectives.

    You could also start changing how heals work so only certain heals work on people not in the group, that should help so 1 person doesn't throw down 1 heal and heal 20 different people from it. No wonder the server turns so bad.

    Might actually encourage zergling to use more than 2 skills and convince them to learn to self sustain their heals a bit instead of relying on the 200 off heals flying around by people not even looking at them.

    Whilst also letting decent players who are managing themselves properly to not have their wards/heals etc applied to people they don't really want them on, just because they're nearby and getting smacked.
    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BNOC wrote: »
    Grouping is way to overpowered. There is zero downside to grouping up with 24 players, and running over any solo or small groups found. This isnt gameplay, this is player griefing. Max group size should be cut down to 6-12 at most. 24 man groups meeting up are the rather obvious culprit for bad Cyrodiil lag. Rather than promote this type of gameplay, Zos should promote smaller groups to keep the lag down, and to encourage players to use skills to play rather than charging over people like a stampede spamming two or 3 buttons. Pvp grouping should have some sort of debuff, or simply lose the positive sides of the current standard PVP buff.

    Pro tip- if your small group thinks theyre not good enough to fight a 24 man group, you have options (1) run away (2) jump off the bridge into the water.

    Eso cyrodiil was marketed as largescale siege warfare. If you dont like it dont play it!

    Dont come to the forums demanding nerfs and/or debuffs to other players because theyre not playing the way you want them to play.

    Pvp in this game enables so much douchebaggery dont bring it to the forums!

    PVP players are allowed to post on the forums as well. I have made no demands. I'm stating what I think based on my observations. Please stop regurgitating what everyone else says when they read forum posts that upset them.

    "Max group size [should] be cutdown to 6-12 at most" then you go on calling for a nerf. You used the word should 3 times, should~verb, used to indicate obligation,duty or correctness typically when criticizing someones actions. You made a demand. You want the devs to nerf the playstyle that most paying customers take part in.

    And lets say your nerf came to fruition, groups are cut down to 6-12. Thats what you called for, whats going to stop 2-4, 6-12 man sized groups running with each other? Not only will their playstyle not be deterred but they will also capture their goal objectives.

    You could also start changing how heals work so only certain heals work on people not in the group, that should help so 1 person doesn't throw down 1 heal and heal 20 different people from it. No wonder the server turns so bad.

    Might actually encourage zergling to use more than 2 skills and convince them to learn to self sustain their heals a bit instead of relying on the 200 off heals flying around by people not even looking at them.

    Whilst also letting decent players who are managing themselves properly to not have their wards/heals etc applied to people they don't really want them on, just because they're nearby and getting smacked.

    Or the potato i'm fighting that decided rolling 6 time is a row back to the zerg was a good idea isn't randomly getting healed when i'm about to kill them by people not even looking at them or even trying to actually heal them. I hate smart healing.

    Imagine if smart dmg was a thing.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • ZarkingFrued
    ZarkingFrued
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BNOC wrote: »
    Grouping is way to overpowered. There is zero downside to grouping up with 24 players, and running over any solo or small groups found. This isnt gameplay, this is player griefing. Max group size should be cut down to 6-12 at most. 24 man groups meeting up are the rather obvious culprit for bad Cyrodiil lag. Rather than promote this type of gameplay, Zos should promote smaller groups to keep the lag down, and to encourage players to use skills to play rather than charging over people like a stampede spamming two or 3 buttons. Pvp grouping should have some sort of debuff, or simply lose the positive sides of the current standard PVP buff.

    Pro tip- if your small group thinks theyre not good enough to fight a 24 man group, you have options (1) run away (2) jump off the bridge into the water.

    Eso cyrodiil was marketed as largescale siege warfare. If you dont like it dont play it!

    Dont come to the forums demanding nerfs and/or debuffs to other players because theyre not playing the way you want them to play.

    Pvp in this game enables so much douchebaggery dont bring it to the forums!

    PVP players are allowed to post on the forums as well. I have made no demands. I'm stating what I think based on my observations. Please stop regurgitating what everyone else says when they read forum posts that upset them.

    "Max group size [should] be cutdown to 6-12 at most" then you go on calling for a nerf. You used the word should 3 times, should~verb, used to indicate obligation,duty or correctness typically when criticizing someones actions. You made a demand. You want the devs to nerf the playstyle that most paying customers take part in.

    And lets say your nerf came to fruition, groups are cut down to 6-12. Thats what you called for, whats going to stop 2-4, 6-12 man sized groups running with each other? Not only will their playstyle not be deterred but they will also capture their goal objectives.

    You could also start changing how heals work so only certain heals work on people not in the group, that should help so 1 person doesn't throw down 1 heal and heal 20 different people from it. No wonder the server turns so bad.

    Might actually encourage zergling to use more than 2 skills and convince them to learn to self sustain their heals a bit instead of relying on the 200 off heals flying around by people not even looking at them.

    Whilst also letting decent players who are managing themselves properly to not have their wards/heals etc applied to people they don't really want them on, just because they're nearby and getting smacked.

    Or the potato i'm fighting that decided rolling 6 time is a row back to the zerg was a good idea isn't randomly getting healed when i'm about to kill them by people not even looking at them or even trying to actually heal them. I hate smart healing.

    Imagine if smart dmg was a thing.

    I think they act of these heals and buffs constantlh looking for new targets has a huge performance drain on the server. They should only apply to people in your group to avoid lag
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BNOC wrote: »
    Grouping is way to overpowered. There is zero downside to grouping up with 24 players, and running over any solo or small groups found. This isnt gameplay, this is player griefing. Max group size should be cut down to 6-12 at most. 24 man groups meeting up are the rather obvious culprit for bad Cyrodiil lag. Rather than promote this type of gameplay, Zos should promote smaller groups to keep the lag down, and to encourage players to use skills to play rather than charging over people like a stampede spamming two or 3 buttons. Pvp grouping should have some sort of debuff, or simply lose the positive sides of the current standard PVP buff.

    Pro tip- if your small group thinks theyre not good enough to fight a 24 man group, you have options (1) run away (2) jump off the bridge into the water.

    Eso cyrodiil was marketed as largescale siege warfare. If you dont like it dont play it!

    Dont come to the forums demanding nerfs and/or debuffs to other players because theyre not playing the way you want them to play.

    Pvp in this game enables so much douchebaggery dont bring it to the forums!

    PVP players are allowed to post on the forums as well. I have made no demands. I'm stating what I think based on my observations. Please stop regurgitating what everyone else says when they read forum posts that upset them.

    "Max group size [should] be cutdown to 6-12 at most" then you go on calling for a nerf. You used the word should 3 times, should~verb, used to indicate obligation,duty or correctness typically when criticizing someones actions. You made a demand. You want the devs to nerf the playstyle that most paying customers take part in.

    And lets say your nerf came to fruition, groups are cut down to 6-12. Thats what you called for, whats going to stop 2-4, 6-12 man sized groups running with each other? Not only will their playstyle not be deterred but they will also capture their goal objectives.

    You could also start changing how heals work so only certain heals work on people not in the group, that should help so 1 person doesn't throw down 1 heal and heal 20 different people from it. No wonder the server turns so bad.

    Might actually encourage zergling to use more than 2 skills and convince them to learn to self sustain their heals a bit instead of relying on the 200 off heals flying around by people not even looking at them.

    Whilst also letting decent players who are managing themselves properly to not have their wards/heals etc applied to people they don't really want them on, just because they're nearby and getting smacked.

    Or the potato i'm fighting that decided rolling 6 time is a row back to the zerg was a good idea isn't randomly getting healed when i'm about to kill them by people not even looking at them or even trying to actually heal them. I hate smart healing.

    Imagine if smart dmg was a thing.

    I think they act of these heals and buffs constantlh looking for new targets has a huge performance drain on the server. They should only apply to people in your group to avoid lag

    Making heals only apply to your group members is the best way to kill off the zerg surfer and revitalize the PUG raid. Do that, amd you've got to be in a group to get heals, so there's a huge incentive to form large PUG raids.

    In the meantime, organized raids and ball groups who already dominate the group healing scene just get that much stronger compared to everyone else. Not to mention I'm sure they'd love for their buffs to go exactly to their group members instead of nearby allies, making their group even stronger in large fights.

    So if your goal is to incentivize group play, and large group play at that, then yes, please do restrict heals to group members only. What we really need is more PUG raids and stronger ball groups, and that will do it.
    Edited by VaranisArano on October 7, 2019 3:55PM
  • InvictusApollo
    InvictusApollo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I don’t think group size has anything to do with lag. My hunch is it’s related to outfits and characters rendering on the screen.

    Crashes always happen when all 200 players in a faction show up in one place. Loading all those haircuts, dyes and outfits is too much strain and the server goes kaput.

    Nope. All of those are loaded once only or should be. And it's not that much of information either. It would be an issue if players were changing their outfits every second.
    Cosmetics could possibly have influence on fps performance though. For that reason many trial groups require their players to use skeleton polymorph. It's easier for renderer to render one object in 12 places, than to render 12 objects in 12 places.
  • idk
    idk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ChefZero wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    ChefZero wrote: »
    Cyrodiik is designed for large scale AvAvA warfare, not only by allowing players to group up in groups of 2 to 24, but also in encouraging players to stack up to their entire faction at an important objective.

    So even if you drop the group size down to 12, you'll still have to deal with the performance issues inevitably caused when players all go to the same important objective for a scroll take, emperorship, or heavily defended keep.

    The only solution that's actually going to help is for ZOS to actually fix the performance issues when large numbers of players attack the same objective.

    I suggested it already two or three times on this forum: spread flaggs and add a 3rd on keeps outer area. This won't fix everything but it's a step in the right direction and keep fights would become more dynamic.

    Adding more keeps will do nothing. Zos added some locations not long ago and it is pretty irrelevant to server performance. Why, because we all flock to where the action is. If we are lucky there is action in at least 2 or 3 locations on the map. However, that has to do with choices people make, not the number of keeps.

    I talked about adding flaggs, not keeps.

    There are already 5 flags per keep as the resources are part of the design. Adding another flag will do little. Even if you are just looking at what is inside a keep the flags are pretty irrelevant to the lag as the combat has already been going on for awhile (if decently defended) before the inner walls are breached. So this will have little effect if any for most of the fight.
Sign In or Register to comment.