The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Update 24 Combat Feedback on Damage Over Time (DoT) skills
kojou
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I've read the patch notes, did some testing, read some feedback from the class reps, etc, and feel like we are moving forward without actually addressing the problems with combat that were introduced with update 23. Nor are we creating what I would consider fun and interesting combat. While I fully support making more skills viable, the original problem created by Update 23 is that more DoTs were made viable and duration of the DoTs was increased to the point where maximum damage was achieved by essentially casting and recasting all the DoTs that we have access to making for boring damage rotations.
In update 24 PTS our combat team responded to the feedback from Update 23 by lowering the damage on all DoT skills, but still left them with a long duration and in some cases even increased the duration further, but lowered the damage to the point where damage rotations will not use them for optimal damage. I think this is the wrong way to fix the issue because as soon as a change is made to where these DoTs are viable again then we are back where we started with the Update 23 "meta" and filling out skill slots with DoTs and casting them over and over again. The combat team could also just leave them in a useless state, but then we just have even more skills that nobody slots for any reason, which I don't think is part of a good game design either.
In my opinion, the only reasonable solution is actually to shorten the duration of most DoTs to 6 seconds, with 12 second DoTs being limited in number. If you think in terms of the 1 second global cool down a 6 second DoT implies that I would have time to cast 5 more skills before refreshing it again. I also think all classes should have access to a 3 second burst skill. In other words, if I also have a skill that I cast ever 3 seconds then 2 of the casts during a 6 second duration will be the 3 second skill which leaves 3 seconds to cast 3 other skills. Having at least one 12 second skill means that I will alternate casting it ever other 6 second rotation and is a space for a spammable, buff, ultimate (if up), etc. This is just a guideline however and I think each class should have its own flavor, but I think that this overall strategy creates a baseline to expand on.
I am not going to be specific with numbers, because I don't think I am an authority on it, but the formula would be something like:
total damage = (base damage x duration factor) - (damage reduction to account for additional utility + damage reduction for non-class skills)
The longer the duration the higher the total damage of the skill is, and class skills should be stronger (IMO) than non-class skills so I think there should also be a damage reduction factor for non-class skills. All skills of the same duration should have roughly the same damage with utility (healing, buffs, and de-buffs) taken into consideration.
3 second skills - These should be strong enough to be in all "meta" rotations.
Templar
- Backlash - Change to 3 seconds, adjust damage accordingly.
Nightblade
- Grim Focus - No pre-buff cast, 3 light attacks while on bar creates proc, adjust damage accordingly.
Sorcerer
- Crystal Shard - Change to 33% chance of instant cast on base morph, Crystal Fragments does more single target damage, change Crystal Blast to physical damage based AoE.
Dragon Knight
- Inhale - Change to 3 seconds, adjust damage accordingly, add stamina morph.
Necromancer
- Blast Bones - Leave alone
Warden
- Scorch - Leave alone
6 second skills
Templar
- Solar Flare - remove cast time, takes base of Solar Barrage AoE DoT and Dark Flare does 6 second AoE DoT on target instead of caster
- Sun Fire - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Nightblade
- Cripple - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Mark Target - Change to 6 second DoT and debuff, give stamina morph
Sorcerer
- Scamp Pulse - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Daedric Curse - Change Haunting Curse to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Lightning Form - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Dragon Knight
- Searing Strike - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Fiery Breath - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
*Dragon Knight still retains Searing Heat passive
Necromancer
- Skeletal Mage - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Shocking Siphon - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Warden
- Swarm - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Arctic Wind - Change to 6 second AoE DoT adjust damage accordingly
12 Second Skills - Should generally only be ground based AoE skills
Templar
- Spear Shards - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
* Ritual of Retribution should have the damage component removed
Nightblade
- Path of Darkness - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Sorcerer
- Lightning Splash - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Dragon Knight
- Eruption - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Flames of Oblivion - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Necromancer
- Boneyard - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Warden
- Winter's Revenge - Already 12 Seconds
*Skills not in class lines should follow the same basic scaling rules, but as mentioned be weaker than class skill counterparts.
Weapon Skills
- Wall of Elements and Volley should be 12 seconds
- Destructive Touch, Poison Arrow, Acid Spray, Carve, and Twin Slashes should all be 6 seconds
Guild Skills buffed in update 23
I would prefer if these skills were not even DoTs, but rather direct damage skills with specific utility. If the duration was lowered to 6 seconds as well then it wouldn't matter if they were, but given that all classes have enough access to DoTs I think spammables would be more useful.
- Entropy - Make direct damage spammable with same buffs and duration of buffs.
- Soul Trap - Make direct damage spammable with execute (roughly the same power as Whirling blades) with same buffs and duration of buffs.
- Fire Rune - Make only direct damage AoE (i.e. remove DoT from Scalding Rune)
- Trap Beast - Change to direct damage, leave root/stun, and Minor Force duration (follow utility skill rules)
The intention is to leave most classes with a maximum of 6-7 damage skills on a build and at least 3 skill slots to use for defense, buffs, and group support giving a wider variety of utility use to damage dealer builds, rather than have a build just load up on damage abilities and rotate through them, or for Update 24, load up on skills with passive buffs and only cast spammable (which is equally as boring IMO).
For example, a Dragon Knight would have a rotation that used any of the skills (Inhale, Searing Strike, Fiery Breath, Eruption, Flames of Oblivion, Wall of Elements, and Destructive Touch), but would have to pick and prioritize which DoTs were best suited for the build/content/fight, because there shouldn't be enough global cool downs in a rotation to keep them all up 100% of the time. The ideal situation (IMO) is with a couple extra skill slots the Dragon Knight might for example also slot Unrelenting Grip and Burning Talons to help with crowd control or some other combination that gives the player extra group utility in content. The player would also have to prioritize which DoTs were better for the next phase of a fight. Ideally with this working the same way for all classes.
In conclusion, if I could have some input in the direction combat takes then this would be my preference over what is currently in Update 24 and would make it a bit more fun and dynamic in my opinion. It has always bothered me that we have all these utility skills that we never use on a damage dealing build, because we don't have the "bar space" to slot them. I feel like limiting the amount of skills that can be used in a rotation opens that up a bit, and also "raises the floor" if that is still a goal of the combat team since new players will be learning more straight forward rotations.
In update 24 PTS our combat team responded to the feedback from Update 23 by lowering the damage on all DoT skills, but still left them with a long duration and in some cases even increased the duration further, but lowered the damage to the point where damage rotations will not use them for optimal damage. I think this is the wrong way to fix the issue because as soon as a change is made to where these DoTs are viable again then we are back where we started with the Update 23 "meta" and filling out skill slots with DoTs and casting them over and over again. The combat team could also just leave them in a useless state, but then we just have even more skills that nobody slots for any reason, which I don't think is part of a good game design either.
In my opinion, the only reasonable solution is actually to shorten the duration of most DoTs to 6 seconds, with 12 second DoTs being limited in number. If you think in terms of the 1 second global cool down a 6 second DoT implies that I would have time to cast 5 more skills before refreshing it again. I also think all classes should have access to a 3 second burst skill. In other words, if I also have a skill that I cast ever 3 seconds then 2 of the casts during a 6 second duration will be the 3 second skill which leaves 3 seconds to cast 3 other skills. Having at least one 12 second skill means that I will alternate casting it ever other 6 second rotation and is a space for a spammable, buff, ultimate (if up), etc. This is just a guideline however and I think each class should have its own flavor, but I think that this overall strategy creates a baseline to expand on.
I am not going to be specific with numbers, because I don't think I am an authority on it, but the formula would be something like:
total damage = (base damage x duration factor) - (damage reduction to account for additional utility + damage reduction for non-class skills)
The longer the duration the higher the total damage of the skill is, and class skills should be stronger (IMO) than non-class skills so I think there should also be a damage reduction factor for non-class skills. All skills of the same duration should have roughly the same damage with utility (healing, buffs, and de-buffs) taken into consideration.
3 second skills - These should be strong enough to be in all "meta" rotations.
Templar
- Backlash - Change to 3 seconds, adjust damage accordingly.
Nightblade
- Grim Focus - No pre-buff cast, 3 light attacks while on bar creates proc, adjust damage accordingly.
Sorcerer
- Crystal Shard - Change to 33% chance of instant cast on base morph, Crystal Fragments does more single target damage, change Crystal Blast to physical damage based AoE.
Dragon Knight
- Inhale - Change to 3 seconds, adjust damage accordingly, add stamina morph.
Necromancer
- Blast Bones - Leave alone
Warden
- Scorch - Leave alone
6 second skills
Templar
- Solar Flare - remove cast time, takes base of Solar Barrage AoE DoT and Dark Flare does 6 second AoE DoT on target instead of caster
- Sun Fire - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Nightblade
- Cripple - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Mark Target - Change to 6 second DoT and debuff, give stamina morph
Sorcerer
- Scamp Pulse - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Daedric Curse - Change Haunting Curse to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Lightning Form - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Dragon Knight
- Searing Strike - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Fiery Breath - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
*Dragon Knight still retains Searing Heat passive
Necromancer
- Skeletal Mage - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Shocking Siphon - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Warden
- Swarm - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Arctic Wind - Change to 6 second AoE DoT adjust damage accordingly
12 Second Skills - Should generally only be ground based AoE skills
Templar
- Spear Shards - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
* Ritual of Retribution should have the damage component removed
Nightblade
- Path of Darkness - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Sorcerer
- Lightning Splash - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Dragon Knight
- Eruption - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Flames of Oblivion - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Necromancer
- Boneyard - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Warden
- Winter's Revenge - Already 12 Seconds
*Skills not in class lines should follow the same basic scaling rules, but as mentioned be weaker than class skill counterparts.
Weapon Skills
- Wall of Elements and Volley should be 12 seconds
- Destructive Touch, Poison Arrow, Acid Spray, Carve, and Twin Slashes should all be 6 seconds
Guild Skills buffed in update 23
I would prefer if these skills were not even DoTs, but rather direct damage skills with specific utility. If the duration was lowered to 6 seconds as well then it wouldn't matter if they were, but given that all classes have enough access to DoTs I think spammables would be more useful.
- Entropy - Make direct damage spammable with same buffs and duration of buffs.
- Soul Trap - Make direct damage spammable with execute (roughly the same power as Whirling blades) with same buffs and duration of buffs.
- Fire Rune - Make only direct damage AoE (i.e. remove DoT from Scalding Rune)
- Trap Beast - Change to direct damage, leave root/stun, and Minor Force duration (follow utility skill rules)
The intention is to leave most classes with a maximum of 6-7 damage skills on a build and at least 3 skill slots to use for defense, buffs, and group support giving a wider variety of utility use to damage dealer builds, rather than have a build just load up on damage abilities and rotate through them, or for Update 24, load up on skills with passive buffs and only cast spammable (which is equally as boring IMO).
For example, a Dragon Knight would have a rotation that used any of the skills (Inhale, Searing Strike, Fiery Breath, Eruption, Flames of Oblivion, Wall of Elements, and Destructive Touch), but would have to pick and prioritize which DoTs were best suited for the build/content/fight, because there shouldn't be enough global cool downs in a rotation to keep them all up 100% of the time. The ideal situation (IMO) is with a couple extra skill slots the Dragon Knight might for example also slot Unrelenting Grip and Burning Talons to help with crowd control or some other combination that gives the player extra group utility in content. The player would also have to prioritize which DoTs were better for the next phase of a fight. Ideally with this working the same way for all classes.
In conclusion, if I could have some input in the direction combat takes then this would be my preference over what is currently in Update 24 and would make it a bit more fun and dynamic in my opinion. It has always bothered me that we have all these utility skills that we never use on a damage dealing build, because we don't have the "bar space" to slot them. I feel like limiting the amount of skills that can be used in a rotation opens that up a bit, and also "raises the floor" if that is still a goal of the combat team since new players will be learning more straight forward rotations.
Playing since beta...
6
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Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've read the patch notes, did some testing, read some feedback from the class reps, etc, and feel like we are moving forward without actually addressing the problems with combat that were introduced with update 23. Nor are we creating what I would consider fun and interesting combat. While I fully support making more skills viable, the original problem created by Update 23 is that more DoTs were made viable and duration of the DoTs was increased to the point where maximum damage was achieved by essentially casting and recasting all the DoTs that we have access to making for boring damage rotations.
In update 24 PTS our combat team responded to the feedback from Update 23 by lowering the damage on all DoT skills, but still left them with a long duration and in some cases even increased the duration further, but lowered the damage to the point where damage rotations will not use them for optimal damage. I think this is the wrong way to fix the issue because as soon as a change is made to where these DoTs are viable again then we are back where we started with the Update 23 "meta" and filling out skill slots with DoTs and casting them over and over again. The combat team could also just leave them in a useless state, but then we just have even more skills that nobody slots for any reason, which I don't think is part of a good game design either.
In my opinion, the only reasonable solution is actually to shorten the duration of most DoTs to 6 seconds, with 12 second DoTs being limited in number. If you think in terms of the 1 second global cool down a 6 second DoT implies that I would have time to cast 5 more skills before refreshing it again. I also think all classes should have access to a 3 second burst skill. In other words, if I also have a skill that I cast ever 3 seconds then 2 of the casts during a 6 second duration will be the 3 second skill which leaves 3 seconds to cast 3 other skills. Having at least one 12 second skill means that I will alternate casting it ever other 6 second rotation and is a space for a spammable, buff, ultimate (if up), etc. This is just a guideline however and I think each class should have its own flavor, but I think that this overall strategy creates a baseline to expand on.
I am not going to be specific with numbers, because I don't think I am an authority on it, but the formula would be something like:
total damage = (base damage x duration factor) - (damage reduction to account for additional utility + damage reduction for non-class skills)
The longer the duration the higher the total damage of the skill is, and class skills should be stronger (IMO) than non-class skills so I think there should also be a damage reduction factor for non-class skills. All skills of the same duration should have roughly the same damage with utility (healing, buffs, and de-buffs) taken into consideration.
3 second skills - These should be strong enough to be in all "meta" rotations.
Templar
- Backlash - Change to 3 seconds, adjust damage accordingly.
Nightblade
- Grim Focus - No pre-buff cast, 3 light attacks while on bar creates proc, adjust damage accordingly.
Sorcerer
- Crystal Shard - Change to 33% chance of instant cast on base morph, Crystal Fragments does more single target damage, change Crystal Blast to physical damage based AoE.
Dragon Knight
- Inhale - Change to 3 seconds, adjust damage accordingly, add stamina morph.
Necromancer
- Blast Bones - Leave alone
Warden
- Scorch - Leave alone
6 second skills
Templar
- Solar Flare - remove cast time, takes base of Solar Barrage AoE DoT and Dark Flare does 6 second AoE DoT on target instead of caster
- Sun Fire - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Nightblade
- Cripple - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Mark Target - Change to 6 second DoT and debuff, give stamina morph
Sorcerer
- Scamp Pulse - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Daedric Curse - Change Haunting Curse to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Lightning Form - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Dragon Knight
- Searing Strike - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Fiery Breath - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
*Dragon Knight still retains Searing Heat passive
Necromancer
- Skeletal Mage - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Shocking Siphon - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Warden
- Swarm - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Arctic Wind - Change to 6 second AoE DoT adjust damage accordingly
12 Second Skills - Should generally only be ground based AoE skills
Templar
- Spear Shards - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
* Ritual of Retribution should have the damage component removed
Nightblade
- Path of Darkness - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Sorcerer
- Lightning Splash - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Dragon Knight
- Eruption - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Flames of Oblivion - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Necromancer
- Boneyard - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Warden
- Winter's Revenge - Already 12 Seconds
*Skills not in class lines should follow the same basic scaling rules, but as mentioned be weaker than class skill counterparts.
Weapon Skills
- Wall of Elements and Volley should be 12 seconds
- Destructive Touch, Poison Arrow, Acid Spray, Carve, and Twin Slashes should all be 6 seconds
Guild Skills buffed in update 23
I would prefer if these skills were not even DoTs, but rather direct damage skills with specific utility. If the duration was lowered to 6 seconds as well then it wouldn't matter if they were, but given that all classes have enough access to DoTs I think spammables would be more useful.
- Entropy - Make direct damage spammable with same buffs and duration of buffs.
- Soul Trap - Make direct damage spammable with execute (roughly the same power as Whirling blades) with same buffs and duration of buffs.
- Fire Rune - Make only direct damage AoE (i.e. remove DoT from Scalding Rune)
- Trap Beast - Change to direct damage, leave root/stun, and Minor Force duration (follow utility skill rules)
The intention is to leave most classes with a maximum of 6-7 damage skills on a build and at least 3 skill slots to use for defense, buffs, and group support giving a wider variety of utility use to damage dealer builds, rather than have a build just load up on damage abilities and rotate through them, or for Update 24, load up on skills with passive buffs and only cast spammable (which is equally as boring IMO).
For example, a Dragon Knight would have a rotation that used any of the skills (Inhale, Searing Strike, Fiery Breath, Eruption, Flames of Oblivion, Wall of Elements, and Destructive Touch), but would have to pick and prioritize which DoTs were best suited for the build/content/fight, because there shouldn't be enough global cool downs in a rotation to keep them all up 100% of the time. The ideal situation (IMO) is with a couple extra skill slots the Dragon Knight might for example also slot Unrelenting Grip and Burning Talons to help with crowd control or some other combination that gives the player extra group utility in content. The player would also have to prioritize which DoTs were better for the next phase of a fight. Ideally with this working the same way for all classes.
In conclusion, if I could have some input in the direction combat takes then this would be my preference over what is currently in Update 24 and would make it a bit more fun and dynamic in my opinion. It has always bothered me that we have all these utility skills that we never use on a damage dealing build, because we don't have the "bar space" to slot them. I feel like limiting the amount of skills that can be used in a rotation opens that up a bit, and also "raises the floor" if that is still a goal of the combat team since new players will be learning more straight forward rotations.
I could get behind something like this sounds like fun game play with balance if #s are set right3 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭They'll kill the game before they figure out the dmg per cast/ cost : duration ratio they're chasing.Edited by EtTuBrutus on September 29, 2019 11:39PM5
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WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually like the idea of some shorter duration DoTs to mix things up, although I think a lot of the changes above would make all the classes feel too similar. There were a couple builds that used Unstable Wall back when it was 6s (pet Sorc with Flood and Prey, and Magden with Shalks and Winter). These rotations were fast-paced, more reactive to moving enemies, higher bust, but less forgiving to mechanics (all your damage stops sooner than with longer duration DoTs).
I also like the idea of some longer DoTs around 12s to suit everybody’s playstyle. I agree that making a DoT meta full of 10s DoTs and giving us 10 skill slots was bound to lead to some very boring rotations.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IMO DoT duration isn't the problem at all.
From a PvE perspective, look at stamina versus magicka.
Stamina retained pretty traditional rotations in U23. The only things that really changed in U23 were: Soul Trap replaced Caltrops, and vMA DW made a comeback. Non-vMA DW rotations are ... pretty much exactly the same as they were in Elsweyr except for moving some things around to accommodate swapping Caltrops out for Soul Trap.
Damage went up a little bit for some classes, but not really all that much. Sustain got better, which was nice.
Magicka on the other hand went bonkers. All of the sudden you've got ... Soul Trap, Degeneration, Flame Reach, Volcanic Rune, and Mystic Orb all doing just as much damage as existing DoTs. Optimal rotations in many cases became ... nothing but DoTs, maybe using Volcanic Rune as a semi-spammable to fill in a couple of gaps.
To me, the comparison between the two highlights the obvious problem introduced in U23: too many viable magicka DoTs. It's not DoT power or DoT duration that's problematic, there's just too damn many of them.
The same problem translates to PvP. All of the sudden you've got the ability to apply 5 or 6 powerful DoTs on your enemies, whereas prior to U23 you maybe had 2 or 3. Of course, everyone knew this the day the first U23 patch notes hit PTS, and everyone made a fuss about it, and ZOS plowed forward anyway. And now they're rolling it back in the worst possible way.
Literally just revert the game to U22 and all would be well.7 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do you recall the icy conjuror set? The original effect was too bursty for PvP, but ZOS didn't want to completely nerf a potential ice set for PvE so they halved the damage and made the effect last twice as long.
The logic is that the damage is essentially the same for PvE in relation to the cool down, since NPCs aren't going to purge the effect. In PvP the set deals less pressure in a short period of time, which allows the attacked player to react accordingly especially if they don't have a purge.
From a PvP perspective decreasing the duration of DoTs won't solve anything if multiple peeps are dotting you up with any dot that deals a decent amount of damage over a short duration.
DoTs should get some of their oomph back so that they're viable in all content, but they shouldn't be as powerful as they currently are on live even if their duration is significantly lowered.(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Burn/Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Heal- Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Inferno/Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Rage of the Ursauk jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Crushing Shock/Storm Pulsar, Streak, Flame/Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Fire/Storms, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build) and Fiery/Thunderous Rage.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Mother Ciannait's (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Max Mag Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), CP restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and CP ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact for regular and NoCP build/Oblivion's Foe for dot build (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable. Max Mag Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Max Mag Enchants). Knight Slayer/Pariah jewelry/Plaguebreak for dot build (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant for regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build. Sharpened for dot build)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Empowered Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that only utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (Infused/shock enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on head and everything else Magicka Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Max Health Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant/Stealth-Draining Poison IX), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1:Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver (Shatter Soul).
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Lover for penetration when playing a sorc or temp.
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Thaumaturge, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvE Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do you recall the icy conjuror set? The original effect was too bursty for PvP, but ZOS didn't want to completely nerf a potential ice set for PvE so they halved the damage and made the effect last twice as long.
The logic is that the damage is essentially the same for PvE in relation to the cool down, since NPCs aren't going to purge the effect. In PvP the set deals less pressure in a short period of time, which allows the attacked player to react accordingly especially if they don't have a purge.
From a PvP perspective decreasing the duration of DoTs won't solve anything if multiple peeps are dotting you up with any dot that deals a decent amount of damage over a short duration.
DoTs should get some of their oomph back so that they're viable in all content, but they shouldn't be as powerful as they currently are on live even if their duration is significantly lowered.
It depends on the scaling of the DoTs... DPS vs Total damage.
For example, a 6 second DoT that does 3000 damage per second will yield 18,000 damage over 6 seconds, but a 12 second DoT that does 3000 damage per second would yield 36,000 damage total (if un-purged). The only real difference being that the 6 second DoT consumed an extra global cool down to be re-casted while the 12 second DoT "sticks" even if a player ducks around a corner.
My problem with the current design is that there are too many skills that "stick" for 10 seconds or more. Scaling down the damage is only a band-aid that will last until power creep catches up again. Reducing the amount of them that we have access to (one way or the other) is the only way to keep it from continuing to be a problem.
I prefer reducing the durations to 6 seconds because that allows the combat team to leave them all viable, but create different situations were we might prefer some over others, but not just use all of them all at once.
Playing since beta...0 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ewww no. Rather we have 20 second duration.Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.2 -
Zippy81✭✭✭In my opinion, longer and shorter over time effects could make a rotation more effective. 15-20 seconds lasting abilities help to build a 'house' whereas 6-8 second ones are more bursty.
There are too many damage over time abilities available. I understand that the max stat scaling soul trap is an ability for brand new toons, however, it doesn't have to be a damaging ability, it can be a healing ability. Stamina builds lack healing over time abilities at the beginning except for weapon skills.
To make the different abilities more useful, classes should differ more depending on elemental effects.
sorc -> lightning/physical
dk -> fire/poison
etc.
Make their % bonuses more appealing and we wouldn't see everyone use the same stuff. Or add a negative there with lower damage from opposite effects?
for example, sorc -> lower fire/poison damage by 10% or dk -> lower lightning/physical by 10%
I'm sorry if the latter caused someone's heart pump faster, don't hate me, just brainstorming.Kind regards,
Zippy1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Magicka on the other hand went bonkers. All of the sudden you've got ... Soul Trap, Degeneration, Flame Reach, Volcanic Rune, and Mystic Orb all doing just as much damage as existing DoTs. Optimal rotations in many cases became ... nothing but DoTs, maybe using Volcanic Rune as a semi-spammable to fill in a couple of gaps.
I think that sadly was their plan though it seemed. They wanted IIRC to "Get rid of passive slots" on bars and have have mostly actives. Nice in theory with classes such as warden/necro <Plenty of class abilities to rotate in/out>, but other classes are designed years back with no thought of modern game play or are shoehorned into a niche only.
To make it work right they need to honestly redo all the classes.0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭Can we get this man an application for the combat dev team? I need the shia lebeouf applause meme.
All joking aside, that is a very balanced approach to combat. The 3 second burst skill idea is fantastic. Different mechanics, similar outcome.
The 6 second DoTs may be too short. I personally prefer an 8 second duration, but having 6s and 12s dots makes sense in terms of a rotation being easier.
As for the guild skills, I do not think that changing them all to direct damage is the best idea. I believe they should act as buffs first with damage attached, much like dk volatile armor or sorc lightning form.
- Entropy - self buff, major sorc buff and small on hit damage for light attacks (perhaps minor empower?), one morph has has a small hot and the other 100 magicka gain on light attack.
- Soul Trap - keep as the generic magicka dot and lower damage as suggested by OP new standards.
- Fire Rune - same as op but add minor force or some sort of debuff on hit.
- Trap Beast - same as op.
0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've read the patch notes, did some testing, read some feedback from the class reps, etc, and feel like we are moving forward without actually addressing the problems with combat that were introduced with update 23. Nor are we creating what I would consider fun and interesting combat. While I fully support making more skills viable, the original problem created by Update 23 is that more DoTs were made viable and duration of the DoTs was increased to the point where maximum damage was achieved by essentially casting and recasting all the DoTs that we have access to making for boring damage rotations.
In update 24 PTS our combat team responded to the feedback from Update 23 by lowering the damage on all DoT skills, but still left them with a long duration and in some cases even increased the duration further, but lowered the damage to the point where damage rotations will not use them for optimal damage. I think this is the wrong way to fix the issue because as soon as a change is made to where these DoTs are viable again then we are back where we started with the Update 23 "meta" and filling out skill slots with DoTs and casting them over and over again. The combat team could also just leave them in a useless state, but then we just have even more skills that nobody slots for any reason, which I don't think is part of a good game design either.
In my opinion, the only reasonable solution is actually to shorten the duration of most DoTs to 6 seconds, with 12 second DoTs being limited in number. If you think in terms of the 1 second global cool down a 6 second DoT implies that I would have time to cast 5 more skills before refreshing it again. I also think all classes should have access to a 3 second burst skill. In other words, if I also have a skill that I cast ever 3 seconds then 2 of the casts during a 6 second duration will be the 3 second skill which leaves 3 seconds to cast 3 other skills. Having at least one 12 second skill means that I will alternate casting it ever other 6 second rotation and is a space for a spammable, buff, ultimate (if up), etc. This is just a guideline however and I think each class should have its own flavor, but I think that this overall strategy creates a baseline to expand on.
I am not going to be specific with numbers, because I don't think I am an authority on it, but the formula would be something like:
total damage = (base damage x duration factor) - (damage reduction to account for additional utility + damage reduction for non-class skills)
The longer the duration the higher the total damage of the skill is, and class skills should be stronger (IMO) than non-class skills so I think there should also be a damage reduction factor for non-class skills. All skills of the same duration should have roughly the same damage with utility (healing, buffs, and de-buffs) taken into consideration.
3 second skills - These should be strong enough to be in all "meta" rotations.
Templar
- Backlash - Change to 3 seconds, adjust damage accordingly.
Nightblade
- Grim Focus - No pre-buff cast, 3 light attacks while on bar creates proc, adjust damage accordingly.
Sorcerer
- Crystal Shard - Change to 33% chance of instant cast on base morph, Crystal Fragments does more single target damage, change Crystal Blast to physical damage based AoE.
Dragon Knight
- Inhale - Change to 3 seconds, adjust damage accordingly, add stamina morph.
Necromancer
- Blast Bones - Leave alone
Warden
- Scorch - Leave alone
6 second skills
Templar
- Solar Flare - remove cast time, takes base of Solar Barrage AoE DoT and Dark Flare does 6 second AoE DoT on target instead of caster
- Sun Fire - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Nightblade
- Cripple - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Mark Target - Change to 6 second DoT and debuff, give stamina morph
Sorcerer
- Scamp Pulse - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Daedric Curse - Change Haunting Curse to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Lightning Form - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Dragon Knight
- Searing Strike - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Fiery Breath - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
*Dragon Knight still retains Searing Heat passive
Necromancer
- Skeletal Mage - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Shocking Siphon - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Warden
- Swarm - Change to 6 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Arctic Wind - Change to 6 second AoE DoT adjust damage accordingly
12 Second Skills - Should generally only be ground based AoE skills
Templar
- Spear Shards - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
* Ritual of Retribution should have the damage component removed
Nightblade
- Path of Darkness - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Sorcerer
- Lightning Splash - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Dragon Knight
- Eruption - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
- Flames of Oblivion - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Necromancer
- Boneyard - Change to 12 seconds adjust damage accordingly
Warden
- Winter's Revenge - Already 12 Seconds
*Skills not in class lines should follow the same basic scaling rules, but as mentioned be weaker than class skill counterparts.
Weapon Skills
- Wall of Elements and Volley should be 12 seconds
- Destructive Touch, Poison Arrow, Acid Spray, Carve, and Twin Slashes should all be 6 seconds
Guild Skills buffed in update 23
I would prefer if these skills were not even DoTs, but rather direct damage skills with specific utility. If the duration was lowered to 6 seconds as well then it wouldn't matter if they were, but given that all classes have enough access to DoTs I think spammables would be more useful.
- Entropy - Make direct damage spammable with same buffs and duration of buffs.
- Soul Trap - Make direct damage spammable with execute (roughly the same power as Whirling blades) with same buffs and duration of buffs.
- Fire Rune - Make only direct damage AoE (i.e. remove DoT from Scalding Rune)
- Trap Beast - Change to direct damage, leave root/stun, and Minor Force duration (follow utility skill rules)
The intention is to leave most classes with a maximum of 6-7 damage skills on a build and at least 3 skill slots to use for defense, buffs, and group support giving a wider variety of utility use to damage dealer builds, rather than have a build just load up on damage abilities and rotate through them, or for Update 24, load up on skills with passive buffs and only cast spammable (which is equally as boring IMO).
For example, a Dragon Knight would have a rotation that used any of the skills (Inhale, Searing Strike, Fiery Breath, Eruption, Flames of Oblivion, Wall of Elements, and Destructive Touch), but would have to pick and prioritize which DoTs were best suited for the build/content/fight, because there shouldn't be enough global cool downs in a rotation to keep them all up 100% of the time. The ideal situation (IMO) is with a couple extra skill slots the Dragon Knight might for example also slot Unrelenting Grip and Burning Talons to help with crowd control or some other combination that gives the player extra group utility in content. The player would also have to prioritize which DoTs were better for the next phase of a fight. Ideally with this working the same way for all classes.
In conclusion, if I could have some input in the direction combat takes then this would be my preference over what is currently in Update 24 and would make it a bit more fun and dynamic in my opinion. It has always bothered me that we have all these utility skills that we never use on a damage dealing build, because we don't have the "bar space" to slot them. I feel like limiting the amount of skills that can be used in a rotation opens that up a bit, and also "raises the floor" if that is still a goal of the combat team since new players will be learning more straight forward rotations.
Dont' like any of your chanegs
1- It seem you want to destroy DKs even beyond what ZoS is already doing. It is a class that relies on DoTs to be somewhat reliable, and those DoTs help them with sustain. If you want to turn DKs DoTs into shorter DoTs then you should improve its resource recovery, otherwise DKs are gonna get OOM pretty soon. Adding a 3 secs cooldown on Inhale sounds like a huge nerf. Do you know that 3 secs in PvP at least is a LOT of time? Inhale is not appealing with its 2.5 secs, why it should be appealinh with 3 secs? Extra dmg? No way. If a magsorc sees me inhaling s/he will sgtreak away from me in 3 secs makig the burst absolutely useless. Consider that to trigger inhale effect you MUST hit an enemy with the initial hit.
2- Mark should NOT be a dot. It is useful just the way it is. NBs already have several dots, Lotus, VoB, Twisting patch, Tether, cripple. You could also consider Shades a DoT (fire and forget). An extra DoT will make them a class with even more DoTs than DKs (strife, breath, standard, talons, eruption, magma armor, volatile)
Regarding the rest, I don't see how standarizing DoTs duration would ever give you the feeling you are playing a class different from another.
Standarization =/= BalanceSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Dont' like any of your chanegs
1- It seem you want to destroy DKs even beyond what ZoS is already doing. It is a class that relies on DoTs to be somewhat reliable, and those DoTs help them with sustain. If you want to turn DKs DoTs into shorter DoTs then you should improve its resource recovery, otherwise DKs are gonna get OOM pretty soon. Adding a 3 secs cooldown on Inhale sounds like a huge nerf. Do you know that 3 secs in PvP at least is a LOT of time? Inhale is not appealing with its 2.5 secs, why it should be appealinh with 3 secs? Extra dmg? No way. If a magsorc sees me inhaling s/he will sgtreak away from me in 3 secs makig the burst absolutely useless. Consider that to trigger inhale effect you MUST hit an enemy with the initial hit.
2- Mark should NOT be a dot. It is useful just the way it is. NBs already have several dots, Lotus, VoB, Twisting patch, Tether, cripple. You could also consider Shades a DoT (fire and forget). An extra DoT will make them a class with even more DoTs than DKs (strife, breath, standard, talons, eruption, magma armor, volatile)
Regarding the rest, I don't see how standarizing DoTs duration would ever give you the feeling you are playing a class different from another.
Standarization =/= Balance
1a. Resource sustain is another conversation entirely and outside of the scope of what I wanted to post on.
1b. Inhale would continue to have a 2 part damage (instant and 3 seconds) and my suggestion is that it is balanced to the level of Blast Bones and Scorch not that the actual way that the skill works is changed.
2a. I thought this might be a way to give Stam Nightblades a bit more identity in PVE, but whatever... I actually don't like how Mark Target is currently implemented, so I wouldn't mind a change to it.
2b. The damage from shades is negligible it is and should remain a utility skill. Tether and Veil are ultimates and outside of the scope of what I was posting on. I don't think Lotus should be a viable DoT in the first place, it is also a utility skill.
Standardization is coming whether we like it or not. I assume the reason for it is to make it easier for a small combat team to manage. I would just prefer that there is a standardization plan that works rather than just throwing jello at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Playing since beta...0 -
sfpiesb14_ESO✭✭✭I like the idea of changing dots around. Making everything the same or very close duration makes gameplay boring. Though adding a 3 second cast time to skills sounds awful tbh. To take your idea I would make it 24 seconds, 12 seconds and 6 second duration dots. The 24 second dots would be like entropy and have an additional buff with moderate duration. Say 1.75 dmg of spammables. They have a higher damage but take way longer so its lower dps but higher damage per cool down.
I also think that the damage of some dots should scale dynamically. The longer the dot is on the target the more damage they take up to the 1.75 damage or whatever it is. So when you first cast the dot it wouldn't do that much but towards then end it does more damage. Also if the player who cast the dot dies, the dot ends.
Though I think that last part would be hard to implement and get right and performance would probably take a hit so if that were to happen I would be against it. Especially in pvp.0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sfpiesb14_ESO wrote: »I like the idea of changing dots around. Making everything the same or very close duration makes gameplay boring. Though adding a 3 second cast time to skills sounds awful tbh. To take your idea I would make it 24 seconds, 12 seconds and 6 second duration dots. The 24 second dots would be like entropy and have an additional buff with moderate duration. Say 1.75 dmg of spammables. They have a higher damage but take way longer so its lower dps but higher damage per cool down.
I also think that the damage of some dots should scale dynamically. The longer the dot is on the target the more damage they take up to the 1.75 damage or whatever it is. So when you first cast the dot it wouldn't do that much but towards then end it does more damage. Also if the player who cast the dot dies, the dot ends.
Though I think that last part would be hard to implement and get right and performance would probably take a hit so if that were to happen I would be against it. Especially in pvp.
I didn't say 3 second cast time. It is a 3 second timed burst like Scorch or Blast Bones.
Playing since beta...0 -
sfpiesb14_ESO✭✭✭sfpiesb14_ESO wrote: »I like the idea of changing dots around. Making everything the same or very close duration makes gameplay boring. Though adding a 3 second cast time to skills sounds awful tbh. To take your idea I would make it 24 seconds, 12 seconds and 6 second duration dots. The 24 second dots would be like entropy and have an additional buff with moderate duration. Say 1.75 dmg of spammables. They have a higher damage but take way longer so its lower dps but higher damage per cool down.
I also think that the damage of some dots should scale dynamically. The longer the dot is on the target the more damage they take up to the 1.75 damage or whatever it is. So when you first cast the dot it wouldn't do that much but towards then end it does more damage. Also if the player who cast the dot dies, the dot ends.
Though I think that last part would be hard to implement and get right and performance would probably take a hit so if that were to happen I would be against it. Especially in pvp.
I didn't say 3 second cast time. It is a 3 second timed burst like Scorch or Blast Bones.
Ah i misunderstood. I like that I guess. Never played warden or necro so wasn’t familiar with those skills.0 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's nice that you took the time to compose such a detailed post; but ZOS absolutely does not care about feedback for classes and skills. The past couple of updates have shown that ZOS is simply throwing darts on a board. There is no rhyme or reason to their changes and it is laughable to think they have some sort of strategy or vision at hand here.1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LonePirate wrote: »It's nice that you took the time to compose such a detailed post; but ZOS absolutely does not care about feedback for classes and skills. The past couple of updates have shown that ZOS is simply throwing darts on a board. There is no rhyme or reason to their changes and it is laughable to think they have some sort of strategy or vision at hand here.
They do care about our feedback though. Last I checked ZOS employees liked roofs over their heads, food on their tables, and I don't know anybody that enjoys updating their resumes.
I am also not naive enough to think they are going to apply my feedback directly unless elements help them achieve whatever vision they are working toward.
I don't know what the chances are of them actually implementing anything that I posted, but I figure if it at least gets them thinking about other viable strategies than "Reduce damage by 50%, increase cost by 50%" then I will consider it worthwhile.Playing since beta...0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »
Of course nobody is going to pick a 6 second morph if there is an 8 second one available, but if both morphs are 6 seconds then what are you going to pick?
Besides that, I think the bigger reason nobody liked the 6 second morph was because it didn't fit well with any class' rotation. IMO, If the rotations on some classes were fixed to take advantage of it then the morph would have saw more use.Playing since beta...0 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unless a DOT can offer appreciable more damage (including any weapon proc damage they might trigger) than a single execution of a spammable , then duration is irrelevant and the DOT is essentially useless. Similarly, with AOE's, unless its application triggers a weapon proc, if the cost is too high and application too narrow (most mobs are NOT stationary), including them in a rotation will push sustain issues, which has the net effect of reducing damage.
What we're left with is a rotation that includes couple of proc skills and a spammable. Hardly anything I would consider visionary.0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unless a DOT can offer appreciable more damage (including any weapon proc damage they might trigger) than a single execution of a spammable , then duration is irrelevant and the DOT is essentially useless. Similarly, with AOE's, unless its application triggers a weapon proc, if the cost is too high and application too narrow (most mobs are NOT stationary), including them in a rotation will push sustain issues, which has the net effect of reducing damage.
What we're left with is a rotation that includes couple of proc skills and a spammable. Hardly anything I would consider visionary.
On this I agree.
I didn't want to get into numbers, because I wanted to focus on a change to the behavior, but all of this is on the premise that the DoTs are even worth using in the first place.Playing since beta...0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every dot should be 12 seconds so I have enough time to use skills other than dotsJodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my experience 8 seconds is stressful 10 seconds is like almost 12 seconds is juuuuuussst rightJodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭14 seconds is lmao whutJodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Every dot should be 12 seconds so I have enough time to use skills other than dotsbrandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »In my experience 8 seconds is stressful 10 seconds is like almost 12 seconds is juuuuuussst rightbrandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »14 seconds is lmao whut
If we were limited to a few DoTs available to each build then sure... The problem is in Update 23 that we now have more DoTs than we do skill slots, and they are all at least 10 seconds which means optimal damage can be achieved by casting as many DoTs as we can over and over.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine is that what we have now in Update 23 and what we are going to have (so far) in Update 24 is not fun.Playing since beta...0
